JackRiddler » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:10 pm wrote:brekin » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:07 pm wrote:Thanks stillrobertpaulson. This to me is the take away:Trump's margins in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania were 11,837 and 27,357, and 68,236, respectively. If Clinton had gotten 107,430 more votes in these three states in the right proportion, she would have won the election. In other words, a change of less than 0.1% of the vote, properly placed, would have flipped the presidency. A Trump surprise it was, but a landslide it was not.
107,430 votes. It is just simple math. 107,430 dems/progressives/independents in key battleground states handed the country to Trump because they still pined for Bernie, couldn't bring themselves to vote for Clinton, couldn't see the difference between Trump and Clinton, etc. Really no one to blame but these people. Not the DNC. Not the Media. Not the FBI. Not Putin.
I imagine many of these people subscribe to the new math. That its not who you vote for, but what you believe in, that counts in the end.
This is pathetic. It's arbitrary and cherrypicked and distracts from the story: an epic failure by the neoliberal Democrats to pick up the easiest landslide in history, because they couldn't address economics or the country's problems, and rigged the primary phase to produce a pre-annointed nominee who was easily the most disliked and incompetent as a campaigner in history. (Which has nothing to do with her sex! Imagine Warren, she wouldn't have pursued the ludicrous "foreign agent" neo/bizarro-McCarthy angle, she'd have smashed Trump in his billionaire face.)
I'm sure you can find three close states where Johnson voters "handed it" to Clinton, preventing an even bigger Trump landslide. A proto-fascism is taking over the state, and this is a flawed method in search of a manageable scapegoat that is very, very, very small and not responsible for the binary set-up of the system or the outcome. Look into your own fears, Democrats, deal with the shadow inside. I understand how fearful the election outcome is, and how deep the role of the DNC in it was, so one would rather pretend that really it was Jill's fault. Little Jill, over there, she did it. The rest I need not worry about. I'll just stick to that story.
As one of her voters, that's a hell of a compliment, because it comes with the presumption that we were the only ones with agency, with intelligence, with a choice. Everyone else (in the unspoken assumptions of this approach) is just an automaton or a barbarian who could not have done anything other than they did. Only the Jill voters had a choice! The millions who stayed home, or those who went for Obama but voted Trump, the actual borderline Trump voters themselves who chose this insanity (rather than fleeing to the lesser insanity in reasonable fear), all this does not figure: Blame Jill!
Aren't you tired of this bullshit after 15 years of establishment Dem nonsense blaming Nader and thus distracting from an electoral coup d'etat by a CIA-originated faction, which led to the criminal regime of Bush and new aggressive wars? Nader-blaming is a crime against historical understanding, seriously. (Let's find some communist to blame for Hitler; except that would have about 1,000 times the credibility.)
The only rational response to this placement of "fault" on Jill is obvious, by the way: Work to end the electoral college, democratize the political system, and above all: find more representative and proportional ways. At best what you say is an argument for ranked-choice voting. Then this "lesser evil" vs. "principles" distraction that eats so much energy pointlessly can be put to rest. Ugh. Stop whining about Greens and fight your enemy, already.
Ranked-choice passed in Maine! 1 down, 49 to go. (I hope the democratization process can get more momentum than pot, or this is going to take another 40 years and thus be rendered irrelevant by the rise of totalitarianism or the destruction of civilization and its ecology.)
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Jack if the democrats can't address economic and the countries problems after 8 years of electing the most likeable and popular democratic president probably ever than why would they do it later? Obama came in huge with a super majority in Congress and the momentum to do near anything. It was clear immediately that he didn't have a vision other than having the country unite to elect him. After that, all his visioning was backwards looking. Also, it was pretty clear that he was a podium and speech politician and not a get ur done politician. Hilary was just going to extend Obama's terms with a few tweaks. Does it really matter if she was likable? Obama was likable, so what? Does it matter if she was a super campaigner? Obama was, so what? We all want Johnny Carson over Jimmy Fallon, but the tonight show is really just selling the same products each night.
The people who voted for Trump weren't ever going to vote for Clinton, whereas butthurt Bernites, too cool to vote this time progressives, and the Stein faction probably would have. I agree Nader didn't and couldn't have cost anyone an election. But again look at the math, this time, it came down to 107,430 votes in three battleground states. Those missing votes really came down to "mmh, just not feeling it" anti-Trumpists, who got too lazy, got too entitled, dare I even say too privileged? It wasn't that the democrats were beaten on the battlefield by a Napoleon or better tactics. The reinforcements just decided to watch the battle on the television instead of showing up to vote.
And
? Jack, fuck those people. If they didn't vote for Clinton, then they are my enemy. Because they got Trump elected. They put the proto-facist in power. I'm suppose to feel some allegiance to wall flower ideologues who sat on the bench and watched as Trump drove to the basket? Defense motherfuckers! Defense! If they don't understand that, then fuck them. I don't care if we agree on everything else, labor rights, enviro rights, etc. If they don't understand the game, then they can just stay home. They can shave their fuckin beards or get off the bus for all I care.Stop whining about Greens and fight your enemy, already.
