The Syria Thread 2011 - Present

[Elvis]

Stefano, thanks for your explanation, it makes sense.

I do want to understand Assad better, he seems to be a straight talker, the times I've heard him (mainly the sit-down with Kucinich); would it be convenient to dig up an example of him being psycho? (So few aren't I won't be shocked.)

'Psycho' probably isn't right, and it's really a mistake to personalise the regime too much. Assad's more of a figurehead for a network that has a sectarian base and has made a small number of families very rich. And has left a whole lot of other families, mostly Sunnis, locked out of opportunities or, if there was ever any suspicion of links to the Muslim Brotherhood, with young men in jails and so on. Political prisoners get treated terribly there, more so since the war started. Bashar wasn't meant to take over (which is why he studied ophthalmology) until his elder brother Bassel (who'd got the special forces training and everything) died. He probably isn't a psycho, but the system he is part of is utterly ruthless. That's how the war started - with soldiers opening fire at MB and NATO-orchestrated protests. Then those deaths became a rallying cry for people who had long been very frustrated and unhappy about Baathism, and the warmongers were there with weapons to give them.

On the MB - it's also dishonest to want to portray them as in some way different than human, or complete tools of the West or whatever. A lot of the leaders are co-opted, but their popular support comes from the fact that for decades they gave people things that their corrupt governments didn't, like education and healthcare. And, as I've said, it was mortally dangerous to be a Brother, so you'd expect anyone personally affected by Baathism to tend to want to get involved in the rebellion. Many were victims of the government during an earlier Sunni insurgency, where the biggest conflict was the massacre of Hama in 1982. Assad killed 25,000 people then. And cities take sides in wars in the region, so again it's silly to think all the Assad forces entering Aleppo are going to be kindly disposed to people there (remember they were given several ultimatums to leave and didn't).

[Wombaticus Rex]

You have abused this place for long enough. There is not the slightest doubt about it: You are a spook.

Is this a Max Stirner joke or are you making a formal accusation here?

Just kidding, I know you're not into spook memes. Pretty unlikely that anyone is making money participating here, although perhaps LibCom offers some kind of affiliate program. AD's MO hasn't deviated much in the past decade.

Calling David Icke racist is no breach of the peace here, nor is insisting on bringing Marxism to bear on economic issues. "Inciting War with Russia" is a perfectly respectable hobby for a US citizen, personally I only take offense when our elected officials are pocketing foreign money to espouse such opinions. We do, however, have a standing rule of thumb against playing "You're the Agent" here.

Have you considered maybe just accusing him directly via PM? That way the rest of us don't have to read it. Conflict resolution absolutely hinges on outside-the-box thinking like this.

Anyways, I don't want to give away too much of my upcoming TED talk. Please refrain from flipping tables over, please stop throwing food at the other patients in the cafeteria, please stop referring to them as "moneychangers" and please stop referring to the staff as "Pharaoh Seeds" or whatever. We're just trying to get through Christmas right now. Let's take it easy, let's listen to some Bing Crosby. Fresh coffee for everyone.

[tapitsbo]

Pocketing foreign money is certainly respectable, but why is it offensive?

[Wombaticus Rex]

Pocketing foreign money is certainly respectable, but why is it offensive?

Offensive to my sense of aesthetics, such mendacity is tawdry and small.

[tapitsbo]

The sums might be small but so is the "foreign" designation - I wonder if we'll indeed live to see one world, under a groove?

[stefano]

My criteria do not involve critiques of the various (target) despots because it is not good to throw stones in glass houses. The scale of suffering created by various geo-political manipulations and implications, with the main exemplar being the scale of arms required and distributed to achieve the manipulations is the criteria I choose to go by.

I agree with your point about scale. The Atlanticist empire is very definitely the biggest danger to the world, and the one it's most important to challenge at every turn. But I don't quite get what you mean by "it is not good to throw stones in glass houses". Do you mean you don't want to criticise foreign leaders because your own are dangerous to a greater number of people? I disagree. The scale may be different but the systems of control and exploitation are the same, as they've always been. I think there are lessons to take from every place and time about running societies, and besides I enjoy that kind of analysis (it's also my job). Also I'm not American, and have never really been expected to identify with Empire, so it doesn't seem very important to me to criticise it all the time. It's almost tautological in fact.

And who isn't living in a glass house?

Logically it never made any sense to go into and destroy countries totally, as the case was in Iraq and Libya, and now Syria, with the explicit goal of killing the ‘leader’. These people think its OK to destroy whole societies in order to target single ‘very evil’ people? You gotta be shitting me, how shallow can people be?

In the case of Libya, getting rid of Gaddafi was always very likely to result in the destruction of the whole society, because the only institutions under him were at the clan, town and neighbourhood level. Same in Iraq with Saddam (although there they destroyed the army, too). In Iraq I think they wanted to break up the society so completely; in Libya I'm not sure, think they were persuaded by their MB clients that they (the Brothers) would be greeted as liberators or whatever, and would privatise the oil and gas business for great profit.

[tapitsbo]

Maybe these Arab societies could manage alright without the strongmen (clearly some already are)

Kinda hard with the neverending jihadist assault enabled by the usual suspects.

And yes the jihadists are not completely controlled, even if they are enabled. It's almost like they want an "empire" of their own...

an idea with a long history and some passionate support, but clearly a MASSIVE opposition as well

The argument about "colonialism" is interesting where pro-Islamist authors promoted by the West and gulf states argue Assad is a "colonizer" of Syria, for instance - meanwhile conducting a wholesale population replacement in territories controlled by Islamist "foreign fighters"

---

Interesting who is still saying "Assad must go" - people like Angela Merkel, Avigdor Lieberman, and the Saudis. Yay!

[MacCruiskeen]

Have you considered maybe just accusing him directly via PM?

As he's stated explicitly, WR, he has me on his "ignore list". (He has this entire Discussion Board on his "ignore list".) Will a PM from someone on his "ignore list" even get through to him? I don't know.

In any case, I've now taken your advice and PM'd him. I will share both my PM to him and his response (if any) with the board, because this is no private matter.

Conflict resolution absolutely hinges on outside-the-box thinking like this.

It seems so. Or on even wackier outside-the-box ideas, such as you, The Moderator, actually moderating (i.e., resolving conflicts), as opposed to merely posing as the one sane-and-sensible Nurse Ratched among the wacky inmates while occasionally issung a one-sided instant ban without warning.

But perfection is not of this world and I would hate to be guilty of lèse-majesté, not least because it might get me an instant ban.

Anyway, I await American Dream's response to my PM and will share it here. I suspect it will consist either of a) complete silence or b) four thousand words copied-and-pasted from
Counter-Nazi Action Group Muncie Indiana.

On verra.

[MacCruiskeen]

^^Well, AD responded, and his response is a beauty:

Are you a spook?

Sent: Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:57 pm
by MacCruiskeen
To: American Dream

Wombaticus Rex » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:42 pm wrote:

Have you considered maybe just accusing him directly via PM?

OK, then, as the moderator wishes.

______________________

American Dream,

This is a Discussion Board, so:

1. Are you a spook? If not, why do you spam this board incessantly? Why do you never respond to anyone who responds to you? (and no, vacuous and evasive one-liners do not count - especially considering the gigantic volume of stuff you post here, all of it copied-and-pasted from your newsfeed).

2. Has the moderator given you permission to treat every thread on this board as your own private Data Dump? If not, why are you allowed to get away with it?

3. Either retract your repeated second-hand slander of Eva Bartlett and apologise, or else substantiate it. Because that is very shabby behaviour.

4. Exactly how many people do you "have on your ignore list"? There's no need for you to name names, but there's also no reason why you shouldn't honestly state the exact number.

5. Have you ever been suspended fromm this board for spamming it, or for any other reason?

6. Has Wombaticus Rex contacted you at any time over the last year, asking or telling you to stop spamming the board?

Respond to these questions in your own words, please, for the record. (I'll be posting your response to the board, because you refuse to respond to anyone on that board.) In your own words, because otherwise anyone might think you were a spambot, spook-run or otherwise.

With all due respect, (after a decade or more of your spammings and trollings and evasions and refusals to respond).

MacCruiskeen.

Here's American Dream's response, verbatim and uncut:

Re: Are you a spook?

Sent: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:07 pm
From: American Dream
To: MacCruiskeen

You are on ignore because it really seems to be the best and only option to me. Please respect that I wish you no ill will but this exception will be the only one.

^^Emphasis added.

I tried, I tried...



Mod(s)?

[MacCruiskeen]

Honestly, WR, I took your advice. And please note:

1) I wasn't rude.

2) I took some trouble to make the issue clear.

3) I didn't even accuse him of being a spook, I merely asked him if he was one. And:

4) He didn't deny being a spook. He just responded with a vaguely-threatening one-liner.

You'll probably say that his response is more ridiculous than sinister, but that's not the point,

The point is: How is any discussion board supposed to function under these circumstances?

And this is not a thread that I want to throw off-topic. But American Dream spams any thread he feels like spamming, and he does so with impunity.

--------

Someone should really start a separate thread, entitled 'Moderation, RI, Jeff, Dr Volin: 2017' (or the like); but I don't want to be the one to have to do it, because it might well incur me an instant ban. But I'll do it if so advised, if necessary, and if permitted.

[tapitsbo]

AD's Zen wit is one of many reasons to keep them around, imo...

If AD is a spook, then we all are (not an accusation, more of a postulate)

[Wombaticus Rex]

such as you, The Moderator, actually moderating (i.e., resolving conflicts), as opposed to merely posing as the one sane-and-sensible Nurse Ratched among the wacky inmates while occasionally issung a one-sided instant ban without warning.

You've been saying this for about five years running now, so tell me: are there bars on the windows here? C'mon.

Still, I love the notion of someone "resolving" your conflicts, when that always boils down to an authority figure telling Mac that Mac is right. I guess I should have suspended you for making that accusation after all. As much as I complain, I always learn something new with this job. You're right, Mac, and I appreciate your prodding on this.

That was a mistake, I see that now. But I'm going to let it stand as a lesson to myself, and besides, you'll just do something else in the next couple days anyway. Suspending guys like you "resolves" conflicts like sending drug dealers to prison "rehabilitates" drug dealers. The joke is that moderation makes a difference at all.

And to that, I say: MERRY CHRISTMAS.

[Harvey]

4) He didn't deny being a spook.

"And when did you last beat your wife..?"

AD could make a good argument if he wanted to. He's either lazy or he doesn't give a shit. What's your excuse?

I love ya .

[MacCruiskeen]

AD's Zen wit is one of many reasons to keep them around, imo...

"Zen wit"... Aye, right. Words have become meaningless, or at least you ignore the meaning of both those words. Anything goes, apparently.

If AD is a spook, then we all are (not an accusation, more of a postulate)

It's certainly no "postulate" (sic). Though your sentence tries hard to look clever, is in fact either strictly meaningless or clearly false, unless it's an accusation.

Anyway, it appears that I'm going to have to start that separate thread.

[MacCruiskeen]

Zlatko Percinic ‏@ZlatkoPercinic 9. Dec.

The almost surreal moment when Jake Sullivan informs @HillaryClinton that #AlQaeda "is on our side in #Syria " https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/23225 … #USA



https://twitter.com/ZlatkoPercinic/stat ... 0077585410

[His twitter bio: "Zlatko Percinic: Work on the book project `Die Rose der Wüste - Wie wir Syrien zerstört haben` or `The Rose of the Desert - How We Destroyed Syria`."]