What is #Pizzagate?

[Iamwhomiam]

All I can say is how glad I am that Comet Ping Pong is in DC and not in Chicago.

If it was in Chicago it would be all about "deep dish" vs "thin with extra cheese."

So there's that.

[Elvis]

Last night I was reading through a new thread at voat that linked to a youtube video that provided lots of detailed research and links to evidence that pretty much proved the "kill room" is located in the very shady "Pegasus Museum" and now, in less than 12 hours, both the voat thread and the youtube video have been deleted. He was also going to post a second part that goes into even more detail about the timing, etc.

This morning, there is a a new thread that contains the mirrored video, but it's not the same at all. All of the links and comments that provide even more information from the first thread are gone.

Here is the mirrored video, but, again, all of the links to his research and information are not included

The maker of that video did a great job in providing a mundane explanation for the "basement" photos. It's not even a basement ffs. And worse, it's not even what someone called the "kill room"! (The "kill room" comment was about the walk-in cooler in a different photo of a different place.) How is Pegasus "very shady"? Just because Alefantis owns/owned it?

The homework was good, but the conclusions in the video are ridiculous.

[Iamwhomiam]

You give it too much credit, Elvis.

[Elvis]

You give it too much credit, Elvis.

You're right. The whole premise of the video is that they'd discovered the real "kill room."

A new narration could be laid over that same video, explaining how all the "basement" photos etc. really mean nothing. But these guys are "very excited" because they've already decided that whatever the facts lead to, it will be "shady."

[Luther Blissett]

[JackRiddler]

/obligatoryprovincialismon

If CPP was in New York, this wouldn't be happening, because we have real pizza here and pretenders from DC or Chicago go out of business!

/obligatoryprovincialismoff

[JackRiddler]

So we're totally winning this thread and all, fellow pizza lovers, but let's face it: this is fucking infuriating shit. Everyone wants to say, oh poor Trumpets, they feel insulted by the smug liberals. You think it doesn't work 10x worse in the other direction? Here's all these regular taxpaying hard-working professionals who don't actually know shit about politics except for the fact that they think they must be "liberal" based on how that word is defined for them, and their exposure to the anti-establishment thinking is THIS. Of course they're going to react in a total anti-conspiracist mode, the poor dears. They're going to run to the "sane" "rational" Democrats in tears. I do feel a lot more sorry for them (not really a lot, but more so) than for the Trumpets who can't wrap their heads around big words like intersectional and who actually fell for this con-man because he was, like, not a neocon/neoliberal/imperialist or whatever other totally unsubstantiated delusion they have about him (still, judging by many posters on RI).

[BrandonD]

km artlu & BrandonD ignore what I wrote in introducing the cartoon

This is more true of "research" than politics by the way

so that they can demonstrate that their Pavlovian reflexes are in good working order.

Such free-thinking, self-directed people!

In research, methods, standards, rigor, understanding of contexts and perspective and limits, all can and should be learned and applied by everyone. #pizzagate is an example of what happens when people with active contempt for all of the above and an inflated sense of their own "intuition" decide to confabulate a screed that supports an agenda they already endorse against objects they already hate.

It is a lot like the cartoon. Society and politics are not a machine with a clear function and operators who must know how to operate it if it is to get from point a to point b. Investigative research is a lot like that. Thing is, one can learn how to do it if one cares. Or one can just throw a list of names of people one dislikes into a random configuration on a graphic and then treat the resulting slash fiction like a divine revelation that "THEY" don't want you to know about. And, in this case, do that in a collaborative effort with a bunch of Nazis.

The only comparable thing I can think of right now is the "Russian election hack" propaganda. The latter, being done by relative professionals (more as hijackers than pilots, however), has a small chance of being coincidentally true.

.

I still don't see the comic as particularly relevant, but I do see the lack of correspondence between investigative research and flying a plane as relevant.

There is no organized group of people who have mastered investigative research and whom we can defer to as our "superiors".

This is because one can get away with being a fake investigative researcher for an entire career. That same person wouldn't be able to fake it as an airplane pilot, perhaps not even for a single flight.

So, since the main premise of the comic actually has very little relation to the subject at hand, its only function seems to be to shame people who step out of line.

That is the only reason it seemed worth calling attention to.

[JackRiddler]

There is no organized group of people who have mastered investigative research and whom we can defer to as our "superiors".

There certainly are standards and practices of investigative research, not to mention the simplest basics of logic and integrity, that are violated pretty much by every word of this pizzagate endeavor launched by the Alt-Right trolls. And one can question standards and practices, and endeavor to improve or replace them, but that's hardly what's happening in this shitshow.

This is because one can get away with being a fake investigative researcher for an entire career. That same person wouldn't be able to fake it as an airplane pilot, perhaps not even for a single flight.

Very true! At least given the patsies who, say, take Alex Jones or David Icke seriously. Just like the ones raising their hands in the cartoon. You're doing a pretty good job of it yourself, I guess?

.

[BrandonD]

There is no organized group of people who have mastered investigative research and whom we can defer to as our "superiors".

There certainly are standards and practices of investigative research, not to mention the simplest basics of logic and integrity, that are violated pretty much by every word of this pizzagate endeavor launched by the Alt-Right trolls. And one can question standards and practices, and endeavor to improve or replace them, but that's hardly what's happening in this shitshow.

This is because one can get away with being a fake investigative researcher for an entire career. That same person wouldn't be able to fake it as an airplane pilot, perhaps not even for a single flight.

Very true! At least given the patsies who, say, take Alex Jones or David Icke seriously. Just like the ones raising their hands in the cartoon. You're doing a pretty good job of it yourself, I guess?

.

I guess this would be a nice illustration of one of your blind spots with regard to investigation and critical thinking.

I am not pro-pizzagate. And if you'd actually read this thread with the rigor that you expect of others, I suspect you would know that. I don't consider myself an expert in this subject, and so I have no conclusion - which is exactly what I've stated.

I responded because your tactic of "debate" is distasteful to me - a bit of information surrounded by a cloud of insults and ad hominem.

I've come to see that this jack-boot method of conduct can sometimes have a beneficial function in a forum, to keep the whirlwind in check. But sometimes I feel compelled to comment.

[Heaven Swan]

Barracuda wrote:

"I disagree. Pizzagate looks like an op created by Bannon (early anti-semitic leanings) and implemented by Kushner (bot approvals), then carried by Milo (anti-Hillary gamergaters) and Cernovich (troll army). People fell for it (useful idiots)".

Thanks for this. Should be posted far and wide.

Pizzagate was a well-crafted smear campaign deployed to influence the election. It was built on the backs of real victim/survivors and injected a large dose of crazy into much of the general public's minds around the idea of ritual abuse in high places.

What's scary is how successful this op was in influencing people, including leftists and liberals. And unless the bar on research and analysis and thinking around these charged topics is significantly raised I'm afraid we're in for a lot more of the same.

[liminalOyster]

Voat is afire with mob hysteria today after the maker of that stupid Pegasus "expose" posted a new video explaining why he removed the first and narrating a series of extended text messages and phone conversations between him and Alefantis. Not going to link to it but it currently occupies the majority of space on the "hot" tab of their page.

Assuming it's authentic, Alefantis sounds 1) pissed and 2) like he is in close contact with the police and/or FBI. Which, assuming his innocence, is fairly understandable given the fabulist harrasment campaign to which he has been subject. Of course, the Voat folks have taken his threats to seek legal action against (and/or cause personal harm to - not verified) the video maker as further damning evidence that they're hot on the trail of the revelation of the big lie.

I'm scared of these people.

[8bitagent]

ahahahah....omg. Yes. Showbiz/Pizza Time Theater(Chuch E Cheese as it was known in the early 80s) Or as kids would call it today, "Five Nights At Freddies"

Im one of the only people on here who was glad Hillary lost, but find the whole Pizzagate shit Mcmartin preschool hoax-y

[Heaven Swan]

8bitagent wrote:
Im one of the only people on here who was glad Hillary lost, but find the whole Pizzagate shit Mcmartin preschool hoax-y

Not true. Many on this site have expressed relief and glee over Hillary's loss.

I wasn't originally a Hillary supporter but when I saw the direction things were going in, I decided to vote for her over Stein because I preferred her over Donald Trump.

I have friends who supported Bernie (who I also originally supported) who were so pissed about what the DNC did to him that they refused to vote for Hillary. My difference from them is that from the beginning I was too jaded to believe that Bernie would be allowed to win the nomination. My later support for Hillary was purely practical.

I saw my friend's (who are female and non-white) obsessive hatred and ranting against Hillary as a manifestation of internalized misogyny but now that I've had time to talk with them more at length I've discovered that they had received emails about Pizzagate, which squeezed lighter fluid on the fire of their anger (and internalized misogyny) and perhaps cemented their decision to not vote or write in Bernie.

What a mess!

Also, please don't compare PG to McMartin. McMartin had numerous child victims who testified in a long drawn out court case and the tunnels with ritual paraphernalia were unearthed and photographed.

[divideandconquer]

Voat is afire with mob hysteria today after the maker of that stupid Pegasus "expose" posted a new video explaining why he removed the first and narrating a series of extended text messages and phone conversations between him and Alefantis. Not going to link to it but it currently occupies the majority of space on the "hot" tab of their page.

Assuming it's authentic, Alefantis sounds 1) pissed and 2) like he is in close contact with the police and/or FBI. Which, assuming his innocence, is fairly understandable given the fabulist harrasment campaign to which he has been subject. Of course, the Voat folks have taken his threats to seek legal action against (and/or cause personal harm to - not verified) the video maker as further damning evidence that they're hot on the trail of the revelation of the big lie.

I'm scared of these people.

You are scared of the wrong people.

Don't you think Alefantis can take care of himself given he's the 50th most influential or powerful man in Washington? (Sorry, you don't get included on that list by flippin' pizzas.) Why are so many here concerned with what happens to the wealthy and powerful hideous elites ? Granted, Alefantis may be end up being a scapegoat-- sort of like his friend, Hastert or a higher level Sandusky-- but it's not because he's a choir boy. It's because they will decide it's better to throw one their own under the bus in order to save themselves. But, having said that, I don't think that's the intent. I think they will stand behind Alefantis as he plays the role of a persecuted pizza man, as if he's just a regular Joe randomly selected by the nazis on the Internet.

Yes, according to NPR the Internet is full of Nazis...something must be done! Every other story is about the great need to censor the nazis on the internet. It's just a matter of time before they banish these dangerous voat "nazis" forever. They are truly scary people! How dare they research the pedophocracy! Isn't it convenient that Dave McGowan died before pizzagate