Tantra-Induced Delusional Syndrome ("TIDS")

[liminalOyster]

I do agree. I consider AA cultish sometimes- depends on the place and time a lot- but if the alternative is out of control free base fiending and/or drinking yourself to death, then I can make allowances.

But AA is anything but the sole alternative to self-destruction from addiction, and it's arguably one of the least successful avenues. I am a former alcoholic and happily admit to a great deal of resentment (ironic if you are familiar with AA's platitudes) towards the way that AA has proliferated throughout the culture (largely due to 12-steppers in Hollywood) to the point where courts can send addicts and alcoholics to an explicitly faith-based program and when the program is so Pavlonian-ly associated with responsible addiction intervention and treatment by the general public.

It's free and it's omnipresent - which are both really good things - so I'm glad some people can make it work as a support for themselves, but that program has done extreme harm to many people. Least among them being sex abuse survivors for whom being asked to admit their "powerlessness" before a room full of strangers is profoundly harmful, and in particular when they're told that doing so is their only chance at not dying.

Sorry for the rant, but AA really, really gets under my skin.

I'm sure you've seen the Orange Papers? https://www.orange-papers.org/

[American Dream]

The Orange Papers are a treasure trove.

I am in basic agreement with all your critiques of 12 Step but I don't claim to understand all the controversies around success rates. 12 Step believes have claimed to me that it is the most effective, what seems to be more reliable sources say it can be as effective as anything else. I'm not sure what to say about all that.

The people I have met who are into Harm Reduction are interesting, I would love to know more about the strengths and weaknesses of rejecting the total sobriety model.

I do agree. I consider AA cultish sometimes- depends on the place and time a lot- but if the alternative is out of control free base fiending and/or drinking yourself to death, then I can make allowances.

But AA is anything but the sole alternative to self-destruction from addiction, and it's arguably one of the least successful avenues. I am a former alcoholic and happily admit to a great deal of resentment (ironic if you are familiar with AA's platitudes) towards the way that AA has proliferated throughout the culture (largely due to 12-steppers in Hollywood) to the point where courts can send addicts and alcoholics to an explicitly faith-based program and when the program is so Pavlonian-ly associated with responsible addiction intervention and treatment by the general public.

It's free and it's omnipresent - which are both really good things - so I'm glad some people can make it work as a support for themselves, but that program has done extreme harm to many people. Least among them being sex abuse survivors for whom being asked to admit their "powerlessness" before a room full of strangers is profoundly harmful, and in particular when they're told that doing so is their only chance at not dying.

Sorry for the rant, but AA really, really gets under my skin.

I'm sure you've seen the Orange Papers? https://www.orange-papers.org/

[liminalOyster]

The Orange Papers are a treasure trove.

I am in basic agreement with all your critiques of 12 Step but I don't claim to understand all the controversies around success rates. 12 Step believes have claimed to me that it is the most effective, what seems to be more reliable sources say it can be as effective as anything else. I'm not sure what to say about all that.

Well my real critique of 12-step philosophy is that it's a pretty much full-on bait-and-switch in which fire and brimstone and metaphysical eternal damnation is swapped out for the idea one must come to AA (and keep on "coming back") or face a painful death. The philosophical equivalence between ethanol and an old testament Satan figure is way too close for comfort and the bending over backwards of atheist, agnostic and pantheistic AA types to explain how "a higher power" doesn't actually mean God is awkward and uncomfortable to watch, for me at least. If AA could simply acknowledge it's a faith-based program, I'd gain a bit of respect for it. But, realistically, I think its on the outs anyways. Most younger people I have met seem to prefer SMART and/or Reddit pages to AA. Probably some do Harm Reduction too.

[American Dream]

I agree with all that personally and don't go anywhere near all that but I have a family member who is super, super into it, so I try to temper my criticism some, as I don't want to be too alienating. That said, the Orange Papers have got it goin' on...

The Orange Papers are a treasure trove.

I am in basic agreement with all your critiques of 12 Step but I don't claim to understand all the controversies around success rates. 12 Step believes have claimed to me that it is the most effective, what seems to be more reliable sources say it can be as effective as anything else. I'm not sure what to say about all that.

Well my real critique of 12-step philosophy is that it's a pretty much full-on bait-and-switch in which fire and brimstone and metaphysical eternal damnation is swapped out for the idea one must come to AA (and keep on "coming back") or face a painful death. The philosophical equivalence between ethanol and an old testament Satan figure is way too close for comfort and the bending over backwards of atheist, agnostic and pantheistic AA types to explain how "a higher power" doesn't actually mean God is awkward and uncomfortable to watch, for me at least. If AA could simply acknowledge it's a faith-based program, I'd gain a bit of respect for it. But, realistically, I think its on the outs anyways. Most younger people I have met seem to prefer SMART and/or Reddit pages to AA. Probably some do Harm Reduction too.

[liminalOyster]

No doubt many good people have attended AA, used it to good effect and in various ways transformed it. I have no ill will towards them and have a small number of dear friends who attend or once did. I'll admit I find it hard to bite my tongue with them sometimes. But my problem is with the willful denial in inherent to the sacred texts of the "program" itself - it's a closed philosophical system translated from an idiosyncratic theological position and, IMHO, that heritage is entirely at odds with what we understand about addiction at the beginning of the 21st century. It breaks my heart when I hear people raised under conditions of extreme neglect or abuse talking about their "character defects." Of course, if I'm feeling generous I could translate that to mean something a little different but I do believe, in the first instance at least, it's inextricably a form of self-directed castigation.

[Luther Blissett]

If AA really wanted to permanently help addiction in perpetuity they would be more heavily focused on destroying capitalism.

[American Dream]

Totally agreed. Of course it grew out of the Oxford Group (Frank Buchman kinda liked Hitler), which morphed into Moral Rearmament, a happy warrior for hearts and minds in the anti-communist struggles being waged in Europe.

[dada]

I think everything Leary said, bar none-to-little, was overstated. But I think he is now emerging as something of an important and interesting figure given that he has become the negative avatar against which sanitized clinical psychedelic medicine has recently built itself - he's frequently used as an example of excess and/or irresponsibility that is all too often coupled with an implicit suggestion that psychedelics are OK in so far as they are carefully controlled and don't enter the political/social sphere.

Tim did groundbreaking work in meyers briggs-style personality categorization. I'm not defending him, I think that's a whole other topic that deserves critique. (My nice way of saying I think it's a bunch of corporate new age astrological bs. Another tool in the social control bag of tricks for manipulating impressionable minds.)

I'm not attacking him, either. He's just another person. I do enjoy his writing. Good ideas, food for thought, jumping off points. He's no literary giant, but he was striving to find his 'voice.' I appreciate that.

Funny that Tim is the negative avatar, considering how once upon a time, it was the west coast trippers who were the example of excess and irresponsibility, while the east coast eggheads were the sanitized clinical ones. I believe it was Tim that once said no one should be allowed to trip without a license. You'd have to undergo training like an airplane pilot.

I think it's the challenge to the political/social sphere which Tim represents that is really what the respectable academic world has a problem with. Think for yourself, question authority? How dare he. Another rabble-rousing mad scientist, burn his books, drag his dead body through the mud. He's a rat, a mole for the feds! haha

There's a Tim archive at the NYPL. Boxes of papers and computer disks and stuff. I don't know if it's available for the public to view currently. Been meaning to go over there. Who has the time.

Here's a picture of Tim's nintendo powerglove. No reason.

timspowerglove.jpg

[liminalOyster]

I think everything Leary said, bar none-to-little, was overstated. But I think he is now emerging as something of an important and interesting figure given that he has become the negative avatar against which sanitized clinical psychedelic medicine has recently built itself - he's frequently used as an example of excess and/or irresponsibility that is all too often coupled with an implicit suggestion that psychedelics are OK in so far as they are carefully controlled and don't enter the political/social sphere.

Tim did groundbreaking work in meyers briggs-style personality categorization. I'm not defending him, I think that's a whole other topic that deserves critique. (My nice way of saying I think it's a bunch of corporate new age astrological bs. Another tool in the social control bag of tricks for manipulating impressionable minds.)

I'm not attacking him, either. He's just another person. I do enjoy his writing. Good ideas, food for thought, jumping off points. He's no literary giant, but he was striving to find his 'voice.' I appreciate that.

Funny that Tim is the negative avatar, considering how once upon a time, it was the west coast trippers who were the example of excess and irresponsibility, while the east coast eggheads were the sanitized clinical ones. I believe it was Tim that once said no one should be allowed to trip without a license. You'd have to undergo training like an airplane pilot.

I think it's the challenge to the political/social sphere which Tim represents that is really what the respectable academic world has a problem with. Think for yourself, question authority? How dare he. Another rabble-rousing mad scientist, burn his books, drag his dead body through the mud. He's a rat, a mole for the feds! haha

There's a Tim archive at the NYPL. Boxes of papers and computer disks and stuff. I don't know if it's available for the public to view currently. Been meaning to go over there. Who has the time.

That's a really great point about the ironic shift in his role as ivory tower svengali to cautionary anarchist trickster. I like him too. More than I did when I was younger in fact. I still need to get more into his whole later history with Ron Paul and G Gordon Liddy and should probably read more about his time in Algiers.

[American Dream]

I told the story of Tim Leary to an aspiring spy novel author from a generation and culture where they didn't know anything about him. I realized then that the whole story was/is incredibly dramatic, just as the transformation of popular cultures that occurred between 1965-1969 was.

[American Dream]

Acid's Greatest Shorts: THE SUNSHINE MAKERS (1935)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQGN0UwuJxw

"We're happy when we're / sad"
"We're always feeling / bad"
-- "How are ya?" / "Terrible!" / "That's fine."

"We're happy when we're / sad"

According to Annetesmusic on youtube comments, they used to play this between sets at the Filmore in 1969, with 'sunshine' being a common euphemism for acid. I believe it!

https://acidemic.blogspot.com/2010/12/a ... akers.html

[liminalOyster]

I tend to dismiss most anything that comes out of Sam Harris' mouth but this is a very cogent little statement he made on the value of psychedelic experience:

[American Dream]

He I guess found MDMA therapies at Stanford in the 80's. This underground of legal/illegal research, as tied to Zeff/Shulgin et al, is an interesting milieu, about which I'm not fully sure what to say.

[American Dream]

LSD Documentary "The Sunshine Makers" Premieres this Friday in NYC



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsvElED0-O0


The Sunshine Makers opens in New York on January 20th and across the US on January 27th. For more information click here.

[American Dream]

Nick Sand clips

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbtcaH1plu4