Provocateurs in Berkeley (and elsewhere)?

[coffin_dodger]

AD:

I don't love violence but I also know there are some extremely violent and hateful people on the far right

As there are within antifa. They are two sides of the same coin - extremists.

So I think it's a judgement call and- since "Antifa" can be anyone and everyone- talking about them in very broad brush strokes makes for a lot of bullshit.

But you have been promoting articles from very specific local and national antifa organisations that encourage the beating, shaming, mocking and in some cases seriously malign intent towards anyone tagged 'nazi' by your personal judgement.
You must be revelling in what you have accomplished.

[Luther Blissett]

…That's interesting, as actual neo Nazi hate sites and groups continually issue death threats against Milo for being half Jewish, Gay and having a black boyfriend. Scary when the left and neo nazis are on the same page in issuing violence as Im seeing on social media. Seeing people beaten bloody and unconscious by anarchists for waiting to see a speaker, who continually rejects richard spencer and white nationalism as Milo has recently, is odd.…

Were people beaten bloody and unconscious while waiting in line?

We've all seen Milo's racist, fetishizing tweets.

[Searcher08]

Yes, they were.

"It's ok to pepper spray and hit a woman with a flag pole because of... my F e e l s"
Her words were literally genociding me!

[Wombaticus Rex]

AD has been practicising this art of for years - unimpuned and untouchable - because it is State sanctioned. This has made an awful lot of people in the US genuinely believe they are living amongst Nazi neighbours. Happy Times.

Not sure if that's just poorly phrased or what, but consider this Warning #1. Next time you make an accusation like that, especially one you couldn't prove if we raised you money to investigate, it will be a suspension.

[Luther Blissett]

Yes, they were.

"It's ok to pepper spray and hit a woman with a flag pole because of... my F e e l s"
Her words were literally genociding me!

Who did it and who did it happen to? Is there video?

[Searcher08]

Yes, they were.

"It's ok to pepper spray and hit a woman with a flag pole because of... my F e e l s"
Her words were literally genociding me!

Who did it and who did it happen to? Is there video?

In the Phil defranco vid I posted upthread.

[liminalOyster]

I don't claim to really understand Milo. But I personally don't think it's wise to slot him too quickly or easily into one of our existing villain archetypes. In the very nature of what is innovative about his schtick, I suspect we would also find what is potentially most extreme and most dangerous. His new video, Milo Begins Construction on the Wall is a pretty striking mashup of forms, manners, signifiers that emerges as an extremely homo-eroticized new paean to ethnic nationalism in the form of a LCD dubstep video. It's stupid, sure but are people really entirely ready to say this is all just a new skin on an old ideology rather than a formidable new (and deadly) thing? I'd hope the Dark Enlightenment has made us more respectfully wary of futurist white nationalism's potential appeal...

[Luther Blissett]

Yes, they were.

"It's ok to pepper spray and hit a woman with a flag pole because of... my F e e l s"
Her words were literally genociding me!

Who did it and who did it happen to? Is there video?

In the Phil defranco vid I posted upthread.

Okay, well, I disapprove of that kind of action if that really is unprovoked bludgeoning of innocent bystanders and not done by agents provocateurs. I have to say that I know a lot of pretty hard anarchists, anti-racists, and anti-fascists and have to admit that it's really difficult to imagine myself or any of them engaging in that kind of thing. If you had to sit through the hundreds of hours of conversation that most anarchists have sat through specifically decrying this kind of wanton violence, it would be hard for you to imagine too.

I don't know, I could talk to my friend who was there to get an update on what went down before these cameras started rolling or if she thought they were cops.

I have to admit, though, the guy spraying the young woman in the maga hat looks like a cop and that looks like cop-issued mace to me.

[MacCruiskeen]

Yes, they were.

"It's ok to pepper spray and hit a woman with a flag pole because of... my F e e l s"
Her words were literally genociding me!

Who did it and who did it happen to? Is there video?

In the Phil defranco vid I posted upthread.

Okay, well, I disapprove of that kind of action if that really is unprovoked bludgeoning of innocent bystanders and not done by agents provocateurs. I have to say that I know a lot of pretty hard anarchists, anti-racists, and anti-fascists and have to admit that it's really difficult to imagine myself or any of them engaging in that kind of thing. If you had to sit through the hundreds of hours of conversation that most anarchists have sat through specifically decrying this kind of wanton violence, it would be hard for you to imagine too.

I don't know, I could talk to my friend who was there to get an update on what went down before these cameras started rolling or if she thought they were cops.

I have to admit, though, the guy spraying the young woman in the maga hat looks like a cop and that looks like cop-issued mace to me.

Her name is Kiara Robles. She says it was a woman who sprayed her. Certainly questions need to be asked about exactly who sprayed her, exactly who was filming her, and exactly what she was sprayed with. I have seen films of the incident from two angles, but NO film of the immediate aftermath. Did people help her? Were her eyes watering? Why did no one film the attacker? And why has the interviewer suddenly vanished? Who was he? Why is he so shy about this big SCOOP?? Etc.

Here she goes out of her way to quote someone raising an obvious point and then gives a weirdly irrelevant non-response to it:

Kiara Robles ‏@kiarafrobles 6 hours ago

Playing the victim is a tactic of the left. Classic projection. #FakeNews #Fail

https://twitter.com/kiarafrobles/status ... 3699368960

Whether it was a real attack or one staged by provocateurs/ undercover cops, it has had the desired effect: it's gone viral, causing outrage all over the rightwing media and social media.

(That older bald guy interviewing her was from NBC News, right? Or what is the logo on his mic?)

[barracuda]

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[Searcher08]

Hitler had a pretty fucked-up worldview.

C3vhQN1WEAEnF0l.jpg

[82_28]

Yes. It is absolutely cookie cutter. Work with it. Own it. Let the victims sift and sort it out. Here is the thing that I think about the right and that is that they view themselves as victims. But if you're getting paid for it and have total protection

I call my best friend's mother on his birthday and mother's day too. He was murdered several years ago. I did not argue with her but Jesus she is right wing as fuck. All I could say is "you do realize you're talking to the most left wing person you will ever know, right?" She said she knew but she said she loved me. In fact, she always has since high school. She had some weird crush on me.

That said, I always find it somewhat jarring talking to her. She is prepared to believe anything she is told. This is why I started the OP but placed the all important question mark in there. Because I don't fucking know.

As far as Agents Provocateurs, I just see it all as a widespread mind game where people like her are ill prepared to apply rationalism to anything. Thus you break 'em out when needed. Again, no evidence, just I have seen it before with thine own eyes.

[coffin_dodger]

Not sure if that's just poorly phrased or what, but consider this Warning #1. Next time you make an accusation like that, especially one you couldn't prove if we raised you money to investigate, it will be a suspension.

Are you kidding... or what?

Take a look around, mate. The ever-present, ever-burgeoning 'criticise my doctrine and you are clearly a nazi and must be outed as one' is everywhere, not just here. It has been spread. AD has slyly accused me of being a nazi several times and I haven't come crying to you. For criticising Soros, I'm a jew-hater. For questioning the banking system, I'm a crypto-fascist. For disliking the Clintons, I'm a nazi. For suggesting Trump is a natural extension of where the US is heading, I'm pro-Trump. If I don't fall in line with current in-group thinking, I'm a fascist. All of these memes emanate from The State.

I'm surprised at you, Wombat. And yeah, I know you don't give a shit - this is all just fun.
I guess we've reached the point where I have about as much respect for you as you have for me.

[MacCruiskeen]

The Nazis would never have come to power if the ruling class of Germany and other European countries had not greatly preferred fascism to communism and used Hitler as a bulwark against the threat of "Bolshevism".

[Wombaticus Rex]

I'm surprised at you, Wombat. And yeah, I know you don't give a shit - this is all just fun.

1. Opposite is true in my lived experience. I'm here because I do give a shit. Playing ref is not fun at all.
2. Accusing other RI members of being agents who are lorem ipsum quid est quod fuit ipsum quod futurum est & etc. Don't be surprised when I bring up one of the very few rules that get enforced with irregularity here.
3. It is quite true that you don't "report" or flag or PM me about American Dream; I have also suspended him many times now for the same thing I am warning you about today.
4. In closing, don't be such a typical liberal nazi crypto-Leninist Labour Party hardliner, jeez. This is textbook Alinsky.