Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby PufPuf93 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:20 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:15 pm wrote:
stickdog99 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:49 pm wrote:So you can install your own security cameras in the hallway of a 5 star Vegas trip hotel without their already installed security cameras catching anything?


Right? That definitely makes me wonder if Paddock was LEO doing what he thought was a sting.


That is an "intriguing" thought and fits well with the many instances of domestic terrorism being seeded or having odd connections and unexplained / unexplainable with American intelligence or LE agencies.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:25 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:15 pm wrote:
stickdog99 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:49 pm wrote:So you can install your own security cameras in the hallway of a 5 star Vegas trip hotel without their already installed security cameras catching anything?


Right? That definitely makes me wonder if Paddock was LEO doing what he thought was a sting.


... which would also ease the task of bringing 23 automatic weapons and a couple of thousand bullets to the hotel room.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby 82_28 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:27 pm

Fuckin' lay off mac. Don't make this personal for someone who it is actually quite personal. Iamwhoiam goes well beyond the value of facts. In fact, every time something like this happens I am quite amazed he is even able to type at all.

Also, it does not matter -- all of our speculations. What happened has now been subsumed and all of us are powerless to steer any sort of narrative. Our fancy sandcastles, everyone's are being bulldozed by the big company now. Yes, the deaths (for us) were indeed in vain. In Jesus' name, it is now their tragedy. Sooooooo, let's continue to do what we can to weasel out every inconsistency to be found. However, what's done is done. . .
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:28 pm

- Cameras: certainly consistent with spookery. The camera is going to be small enough that it shouldn't be noticed easily. Planting it can be done inconspicuously, but practice or training helps. Might have also just done it as the final step before the attack.

- That is a very interesting video of the brother. Very. All I have to say for now.

- Yes, obviously this resume sounds like one of Hopsicker's characters. But Marilou's does not sound spooky.

- That 70% of what's out there minimum is going to be automatically generated bullshit with one angle or another isn't going to help. It's noise to any understanding.

- Only working with what we have available to us (as in, we here on this thread), I have near zero doubt this was the shooter and pulled it off as described. Neither does the brother, he makes it pretty obvious he thinks that despite himself all the times he says, yeah, that's how Steve would have done it.

- The background is what interests.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:40 pm

MacCruiskeen » 04 Oct 2017 17:48 wrote:Thanks, WR.

I know next to nothing about Stephen Paddock's wife and I know absolutely nothing of any gunrunning activities of his. He certainly had an expensive lifestyle (Two private planes? Vegas gambling holidays?) but then he was reportedly a successful property developer and he had no kids to support. Apparently he did a lot to support his very old mother financially, as well as his brother's family and his own wife, wherever that money actually came from.

See this second interview with the brother, Eric.



These 33 minutes make strange viewing and listening. Eric Paddock looks and sounds like someone who has barely slept in three days and is struggling to hold it together after being told his only brother is now a dead spree killer. Though he appears to have little sense of how he comes across, it is not a mere cringefest. Fwiw, he does strike me as genuine, not as someone who is knowingly spinning a yarn. His very lack of "media savvy" makes him kind of likable. His boundaries are slipping and his talk is at times almost manic -- which is not to say it's stupid or insane or implausible. Everything just keeps spilling out of him as he tries to convey his bafflement. I do respect the way he stands his ground there in his driveway, the way he resists & objects to the media's caricature sketch of his brother as an "eccentric" "loner" who "snubbed the neighbours" and "disrespected his wife". It's almost funny at times, but not so you would cry tears of laughter.

Eric P. may well not have known everything his brother was up to -- which adult does? -- but the picture he paints here is not a portrait of a bully or a shut-in or a complete misanthrope (or misogynist), much less a monstrous psychopathic mass-murderer.

Worth listening to in full (while driving or cooking or whatever) even if you find it too long to watch. But the guy's facial expressions and body language are also worth observing. Interviews like this, if any even exist, are not often broadcast in full.


These sorts of videos always leave me flabbergasted. If authorities tell you that your brother, spouse, best friend or son suddenly became a mass murderer for no reason, you simply have to accept whatever it is they tell you without any proof. You have to invent a scenario in which the authorities are 100% right and your loved one somehow snapped and murdered dozens of people randomly for no reason whatsoever. Because the alternative not only causes a hundred times more cognitive dissonance, it also puts your life and that of everyone who would listen to your suspicions in jeopardy. Even worse, you would then become a conspiracy theorist.

Folks, if I am ever accused of random mass murder, please do me one tiny favor and do not believe whatever the authorities tell you about me and my supposed motives because, short of some sort of 1984 re-education effort, I can assure you now that I did not do it.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:50 pm

MacCruiskeen » 04 Oct 2017 20:25 wrote:
Wombaticus Rex » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:15 pm wrote:
stickdog99 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:49 pm wrote:So you can install your own security cameras in the hallway of a 5 star Vegas trip hotel without their already installed security cameras catching anything?


Right? That definitely makes me wonder if Paddock was LEO doing what he thought was a sting.


... which would also ease the task of bringing 23 automatic weapons and a couple of thousand bullets to the hotel room.


Yep. A high rolling spook whose deep cover was a high rolling arms dealer works for me.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby km artlu » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:54 pm

That definitely makes me wonder if Paddock was LEO doing what he thought was a sting.


Me too WR.
At some point in the last few days of trying to absorb all the alleged details of this, a scenario appeared in my thoughts. It was an odd experience, as though it was a scene from a film I had watched.

In this vision, Paddock had been instructed to install himself in the suite and...await the buyers, or....the team will be there at 21:00, or....await further instructions.

As was probably the case with Lee Oswald, Paddock may have thought he was one of the good guys.

By the way - the exchange between you and Mac on page 8 here is old-school RI gold.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:03 pm

PufPuf93 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:05 pm wrote:
stillrobertpaulsen » Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:28 pm wrote:
Iamwhomiam » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:46 pm wrote:Robert, she was under another part of the building that muffled the gunshots, which became much louder when she emerged and drove around and in front of the hotel.


My audio is working so I watched it again to make sure it went down like I thought it did. At the 45 second mark, the muffled gunfire is audible and at the 49 second mark, the taxi driver says, "Now it sounds like it's coming from farther away." This lead me to presume she was hearing gunfire much closer prior to the start of the video. Then at the 1:07 mark, we hear a car honk behind the taxi. At 1:08, just as she starts to move the taxi, but while the four-pronged streetlight is still visible from the taxi window, I heard BAM!BAM!BAM!BAM!BAM! gunfire at the loudest decibels. That the driver didn't even comment on this sudden shift in volume lead me to believe this is the closer gunfire she heard prior to filming. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, Iamwhomiam; I'm not even stating there definitely were two shooters. But after looking at the pictures and the layout that elfismiles provided, I find it difficult to buy the argument that Paddock switching weapons or switching windows could account for such a huge difference in volume. They sound like they're coming from two different floors, maybe even two different buildings.

Considering what a horrific tragedy this was, it's a little disconcerting to read the "crisis actors" comments on the youtube link. I suppose I should be use to it by now, but I get a little sick of reading some random couch potato critiquing whether the behavior of the passengers is normal and from that deducing that the whole event is a hoax. Grow a heart and soul, you empty shits.


The gun fire at the beginning of the taxi video was confusing as some was muffled and appeared to be from far away and other gun fire was loud and sounded much closer.

Perhaps some of the gun fire was from the window around the corner of the suite? But one could easily use that taxi video to imply a cross fire with multiple firing sites.

Also I watched another short video that appeared to show the flashes of muzzle fire occurring from a much lower floor. The video was unclear.

In my post above when I called Stephen Paddock an "actor" I specifically did not mean so in a "crisis actor" sense, so used a poor choice of word for RI.

Obviously this event was not a hoax, many people have died or been hurt. Whether Paddock was a lone shooter or operated in general as a lone wolf is open to question.

I was surprised to see the Lash thread bumped up in recent days. Similar situation in that Lash collected vast quantities of arms with questionable source of funding and motivation except weirdness. Paddock is characterized as intelligent and competent and nary a mention of aliens despite being so near Area 51.


It is definitely confusing, that's why while I'm leaning toward the possibility of multiple shooters, I remain agnostic on how it actually went down. A number of people on this thread have shone light on how Paddock had the patina of MIC throughout his background, so that's probably a more fruitful avenue of exploration as to why this happened.

No, I didn't think you were calling Paddock an actor as in "fake", more like the "dark actor" within the milieu of intelligence. He could have done it all by himself or he could be an Oswald set up to take the fall for a Secret Team. That the Corporate Media expect us to swallow the Mild-Mannered-Accountant-By-Day/Wildly-Successful-Video-Poker-Player-By-Night story to account for his multi-millionaire status would be laughable, though apparently it was enough to fool his brother. Frankly, if his employment record did reveal ties to Area 51, it wouldn't surprise me.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:05 pm

stickdog99 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:40 pm wrote:
[...]

These sorts of videos always leave me flabbergasted. If authorities tell you that your brother, spouse, best friend or son suddenly became a mass murderer for no reason, you simply have to accept whatever it is they tell you without any proof. You have to invent a scenario in which the authorities are 100% right and your loved one somehow snapped and murdered dozens of people randomly for no reason whatsoever. Because the alternative not only causes a hundred times more cognitive dissonance, it also puts your life and that of everyone who would listen to your suspicions in jeopardy. Even worse, you would then become a conspiracy theorist.

Folks, if I am ever accused of random mass murder, please do me one tiny favor and do not believe whatever the authorities tell you about me and my supposed motives because, short of some sort of 1984 re-education effort I can assure you that I did not do it.


Exactly. Eric Paddock is clearly struggling not to pass the bounds of the expressible. Not only is it bad form to doubt your dead loved one's guilt (because it insults the victims, don't you know)...

stickdog99 wrote:Even worse, you would then become a conspiracy theorist.


...which would not just constitute proof of insanity but is now very close to being defined as treasonous.

Anyone might think no one in the USA had ever been falsely convicted of a capital crime.

Innocent Pennsylvania man freed after spending 24 years in prison

By Karma Allen May 24, 2017, 7:17 AM ET

http://abcnews.go.com/US/innocent-penns ... d=47601437


Lorenzo Johnson, Contributor
Imprisoned for 22 years for a crime he didn’t commit. Freed July 11, 2017.
Innocent Prisoners: Decades of Life Lost
06/10/2017 10:55 am ET

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/in ... ae8c69e0d2


Innocent 60-year-old man free after 30 years in prison | The Independent

08.04.2016 - A man who spent more than three decades serving time for crimes he did not commit was finally released from a Virginia correctional facility.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 75766.html


Thats why they now kill them instead of capturing them. Who's going to bother proving the innocence of a corpse, or even trying? Especially when very weighty interests are at stake.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:11 pm

.

I presume someone's guilty of these murders. If you want an alternate scenario to the story as told (at least the main outline), it has a lot more moving parts than most of you seem to realize. So some questions:

- What's the motive? On behalf of which cause?

- Who's the crew? How might they pull it off?

- How are you going to get any evidence not provided for you by the corporate media or the cops?

- How are you going to deal with the 130-decibel noise and toxic bullshit over the whole thing being blasted out from Jonestown and the rest?

Some of you just can't see this in your moral universe, and neither can I. But the observation that millions of people might engage in mass murder out of misanthropy (against a given group or generally) if given the means is not at all foreign to me. A lot of people would murder strangers if all it took was pushing a button without consequences (like in the movie The Box, except there were consequences in the movie). First-person shooters and zombie films partly market to this, right?

And never mind all the acceptable forms of mass murder, where many such people find their outlet in real and not just fantasy activity.

For those contemplating/daydreaming about the unacceptable kinds of mass murder, only a very very small proportion of them need to have the motivation and competence and sickness to provide a steady supply of rampage killers. Also, while it's not the majority of people, there is an enormous culture fascinated with and sometimes celebrating serial killers and rampage murderers in this country (again, beyond and overlapping with the even larger culture of acceptable industrial mass murder, our heroes). It has so many forms and activities, it's like a fandom, it feeds into hundres of TV shows and movies.

Becoming one of these mass killers in real life is a form of celebrity, and now this guy goes into the pantheon as the current record holder, an inspiration to emulate to... almost no one. But only almost. The "ISIS" feed via Katz understands that well enough, so they-it issued their predictable claim of ownership and call for more.

So I find the idea of someone from a sociopathic milieu (such as spookdom) and under the influence of a psychopathic culture deciding to go out this way, especially now given the cultural contexts, not so outlandish at all. With or without a diagnosis of imminent death or delusions from a mental illness or, if you want, MK training. It only happens once or twice or three times a month in a population of hundreds of millions.

And 82, how old are you? 64 is generally pretty fucking robust nowadays. It's not like any of these expertises - carrying bags into a hotel room one or two at a time, planting mini cameras,spending a lot of money if you have it, purchasing guns at different shops, rehearsing at shooting ranges, etc. - are Olympic events. None of them taken in itself is illegal.

Again, we read things each in our own way. The brother totally convinces me. Both his sincere telling and the character armor he displays in the telling. Not because he's evil except sort of as a function of some of his society's values. It is how easily he conceives how his brother would have handled the details competently. The decision to do this confounds him utterly, as it confounds almost anyone, but the ability to do it does not. And recall, absolutely no one is forcing him to talk. He's come out to his driveway to speak all this openly and without fear of incrimination. Naively, perhaps.

I wish the interviewers had asked him about Stephen's work and business history, how he got rich besides the real estate management stuff they did together.

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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:20 pm

JackRiddler » 04 Oct 2017 20:28 wrote:- Cameras: certainly consistent with spookery. The camera is going to be small enough that it shouldn't be noticed easily. Planting it can be done inconspicuously, but practice or training helps. Might have also just done it as the final step before the attack.


How to you "plant" two security cameras in the hallway of a Vega casino inconspicuously? Have you ever been to Mandalay Bay?

Image

The hallways of Mandalay Bay are more antiseptic than a clean room. Where do you suggest hiding a security camera without embedding it? More to the point, why risk exposing your operation to casino security in this manner? How does the potential benefit of a few seconds of advanced warning of authorities (assuming the security cameras were even placed in a manner that would give such advanced warning, which I highly doubt) exceed the potential risk of the discovery of the cameras? Isn't it far more likely that the cameras were placed for evidentiary purposes?

Only working with what we have available to us (as in, we here on this thread), I have near zero doubt this was the shooter and pulled it off as described. Neither does the brother, he makes it pretty obvious he thinks that despite himself all the times he says, yeah, that's how Steve would have done it.


If his brother knew Stephen well enough to know Stephen had a one man business that specialized in selling guns to unsavory characters, wouldn't that explain his brother's lack of surprise that Stephen could pull off such an operation on his own?
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:37 pm

Some quick answers to Jack's questions (it's v. late here):

- What's the motive? On behalf of which cause?

Same as it ever was: The maintenance and development of the Terror State, established in September 2001.

- Who's the crew? How might they pull it off?

The same crew of employers & enablers as in September 2001. The method? As described above: get a patsy into the room and then Just Do It. Simple. Any trained killer could manage the task, especially if he was hoping to be richly rewarded for his pains.

- How are you going to get any evidence not provided for you by the corporate media or the cops?

I'm really surprised to hear you ask this, Jack. It's not a matter of acquiring evidence as yet unprovided (which of course they will never willingly provide, because it would be the end of them). It's a simple matter of demonstrating the poverty of the case so far presented against the Dead Designated Culprit - just the latest of very many such speechless corpses. Because that case consists so far of nothing but bullshit, insinuation, innuendo and libel.

- How are you going to deal with the 130-decibel noise and toxic bullshit over the whole thing being blasted out from Jonestown and the rest?

By not leaving the field to the likes of Alex Jones and American Dream (two closely related species of toxic bullshit.) By treating this board as a respite & refuge from what someone called the Permanent Bullshit Blizzard and discussing the crime rationally here. Reminder: that crime is only three days old and this is just a discussion board, not the Supreme Court. It's a question of intellectual self-defence and a stubborn insistence that the Burden of Proof applies -- at least in principle -- even to dead designated culprits.

The longer this shit goes on unchallenged, the longer it will go on unchallenged, and anyone's brother, wife or friend can become a Designated Culprit while the imperialist wars roll on. QED.

Goodnight.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby DrEvil » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:43 pm

stickdog99 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:20 pm wrote:
JackRiddler » 04 Oct 2017 20:28 wrote:- Cameras: certainly consistent with spookery. The camera is going to be small enough that it shouldn't be noticed easily. Planting it can be done inconspicuously, but practice or training helps. Might have also just done it as the final step before the attack.


How to you "plant" two security cameras in the hallway of a Vega casino inconspicuously? Have you ever been to Mandalay Bay?

Image

The hallways of Mandalay Bay are more antiseptic than a clean room. Where do you suggest hiding a security camera without embedding it? More to the point, why risk exposing your operation to casino security in this manner? How does the potential benefit of a few seconds of advanced warning of authorities (assuming the security cameras were even placed in a manner that would give such advanced warning, which I highly doubt) exceed the potential risk of the discovery of the cameras? Isn't it far more likely that the cameras were placed for evidentiary purposes?

Only working with what we have available to us (as in, we here on this thread), I have near zero doubt this was the shooter and pulled it off as described. Neither does the brother, he makes it pretty obvious he thinks that despite himself all the times he says, yeah, that's how Steve would have done it.


If his brother knew Stephen well enough to know Stephen had a one man business that specialized in selling guns to unsavory characters, wouldn't that explain his brother's lack of surprise that Stephen could pull off such an operation on his own?


That depends on when the cameras were planted. If they were put up right before the shooting started (which seems the most likely to me. Putting them up hours or days in advance only increases the chance of discovery, and this whole thing seems to have been very well planned) then their discovery wouldn't really be an issue.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:47 pm

JackRiddler » 04 Oct 2017 21:11 wrote:.

I presume someone's guilty of these murders. If you want an alternate scenario to the story as told (at least the main outline), it has a lot more moving parts than most of you seem to realize.


LOL. Why does this sound like somebody arguing that life had to begin on Earth because the panspermia theory has "too many moving parts"? Or that Oswald must have killed Kennedy because of Occam's razor?

So some questions:

- What's the motive? On behalf of which cause?


Why doesn't this question need to answered about Paddock before you express "near zero doubt" that he not only murdered dozens after 40 years with no police record but that he obviously pulled all of this off on his own?

- Who's the crew? How might they pull it off?


The customers he thought he was stinging asked to handle the merchandise they were considering purchasing. When the local cops got there, the purchasers flashed their FBI (or whatever) badges and pointed out the dead lone shooter. And the rest is history. I'm not saying this is what happened, but I am saying Operation Gladio was not a movie. Can you say "strategy of tension"?

- How are you going to get any evidence not provided for you by the corporate media or the cops?


We almost certainly aren't. So why give this "evidence" any credence whatsoever?

- How are you going to deal with the 130-decibel noise and toxic bullshit over the whole thing being blasted out from Jonestown and the rest?


I don't follow.

Some of you just can't see this in your moral universe, and neither can I. But the observation that millions of people might engage in mass murder out of misanthropy (against a given group or generally) if given the means is not at all foreign to me. A lot of people would murder strangers if all it took was pushing a button without consequences (like in the movie The Box, except there were consequences in the movie). First-person shooters and zombie films partly market to this, right?


But there are consequences. The narrative we are supposed to buy is that the guy shot himself before the authorities arrived and met whatever maker he did or did not believe in directly after murdering scores of innocent people for no discernible reason then offing himself. How is that not a consequence? Furthermore, in whose interest is it that you are so eager to believe that a large plurality of your fellow citizens would love to shoot scores of innocent people like you for no reason whatsoever so much that they are more than willing to face such consequences to do so?

The brother totally convinces me


because you are looking in the mirror.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby stickdog99 » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:00 pm

That depends on when the cameras were planted. If they were put up right before the shooting started (which seems the most likely to me. Putting them up hours or days in advance only increases the chance of discovery, and this whole thing seems to have been very well planned) then their discovery wouldn't really be an issue.


Again, all of these hallways are constantly monitored by other security cameras. So how does the potential benefit exceed the very real risk of discovery? You are about to start shooting people with guns that will be ringing out at 160 decibels. What exactly is the benefit of monitoring the hotel hallway while doing so? If your intent is to randomly murder as many people as possible before committing suicide, why are you worried about the exact timing of the inevitable response of the authorities? What could be the possible benefit such that it exceeds the risk of discovery of your placing two fucking security cameras in the plain sight of continually monitored casino security cameras? How could you even begin to explain such an action in a halfway believable movie plot?
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