Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

[stickdog99]

At 1:14 of the video: http://abcnews.go.com/US/investigators- ... d=50346433

[JackRiddler]

For whatever it's worth, in my life I've met more than a few people likely worth millions in real estate and cash (no rarity in NYC) who dressed like regular slobs, ate and seemed to love crappy food, talked about sports or whatever bullshit with the same authority as any other slob, and expressed thrills in getting cheap deals on stuff (which a great many people see as a form of virtue). As well as the other cultural pole of those who engage in signalling their fine rich-people tastes.

From my remote perch (like the rest of us here) I'm not saying anything is definitely one way or another or we shouldn't post reports here or be dismissive of what people may have experienced or seen or consider any scenario impossible (merely less plausible). I'm just allowing that the events set off a stampede of 30,000 at the concert, which then got hundreds of thousands up and down the strip into panicked motion and seeking cover as presumably every cop car and ambulance and private security force and cell-phone holding person in Las Vegas went into action mode, most acting on the principle of it being better at the start to inflate and exaggerate every hint of a threat. Unless I missed something up-thread we still haven't seen direct evidence of shooting and shooting aftermath anywhere on the strip like we have in the available videos from the concert location.

[Heaven Swan]

Spoiler:

Okay, here is a report from Ed Opperman who lives in Las Vegas. He tracked down a lot of these eye witnesses, and he says they don't pan out, that a lot of it was just panic, including the Bellagio incident.

Thanks for posting this PW. I really like this guy's hard-boiled NYPD cop common sense. He lives in Las Vegas and did a real investigation by talking to hotel security people off the record and knows the local terrain. He confirms what I suspected but was open to be proven wrong about i.e. that panicked people, running for their lives with bodies falling around them, out of their minds with fear (who wouldn't be) misinterpreted things like where gunshots were coming from.

Most of the YouTube videos by witnesses no doubt fall into this category. But I also think that there's another phenomena or strategy at work here. Given the incredible success of the Pizzagate disinfo op, lurking in the You Tube mix are those who want to spread conspiracy theory chaos and definitively discredit anyone trying to look into what is behind SOME of these events.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate stickdog's efforts in gathering info, I don't see him as the problem, but I hope that RI, which has always cast a more sober and critical eye, can continue to not be engulfed in the hysteria, and remains a place that truly questions and looks at things from various angles, without falling into the rah rah stupid, unfounded "any conspiracy goes" thinking.

[SonicG]

It is just another sad commentary on the current state of affairs. Anonymous people on FB: "oh yeah, there was a bunch of people who also got shot at the Bellagio. Too bad. Bummer...Oh well...." People trolling an insane mass murder both ways...it was fake...there were multiple shooters...he was repping Isis..." I mean, on the one had, the death of "Truth" is fun and all but who thought the fall-out through? I think there needs to be a severe analysis of the whole "They are trying to keep us divided...Keep us from banding together to fight the REAL enemy..." Nah, people seem pretty united in their tip-tap-tapping of keyboards and screens. I won't go all Pogo on you, but I am sure you know the quote...

[Burnt Hill]

Nah, people seem pretty united in their tip-tap-tapping of keyboards and screens. I won't go all Pogo on you, but I am sure you know the quote...

Our culture now creates an environment where individuals like Paddock can react to further the needs of the dark state without a guiding hand.

As the response to this reaction will also further their needs.

There will be no gun control, just more human control.

We are the dark states self fulfilling prophecy.

[JackRiddler]

Spoiler:

Okay, here is a report from Ed Opperman who lives in Las Vegas. He tracked down a lot of these eye witnesses, and he says they don't pan out, that a lot of it was just panic, including the Bellagio incident.

Thanks for posting this PW. I really like this guy's hard-boiled NYPD cop common sense. He lives in Las Vegas and did a real investigation by talking to hotel security people off the record and knows the local terrain. He confirms what I suspected but was open to be proven wrong about i.e. that panicked people, running for their lives with bodies falling around them, out of their minds with fear (who wouldn't be) misinterpreted things like where gunshots were coming from.

Most of the YouTube videos by witnesses no doubt fall into this category. But I also think that there's another phenomena or strategy at work here. Given the incredible success of the Pizzagate disinfo op, lurking in the You Tube mix are those who want to spread conspiracy theory chaos and definitively discredit anyone trying to look into what is behind SOME of these events.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate stickdog's efforts in gathering info, I don't see him as the problem, but I hope that RI, which has always cast a more sober and critical eye, can continue to not be engulfed in the hysteria, and remains a place that truly questions and looks at things from various angles, without falling into the rah rah stupid, unfounded "any conspiracy goes" thinking.

Yes, thank you for all these thoughts. One might add the panicked people aren't just from the concert, that it spreads up and down the hundreds of thousands along the strip. Every hotel has a reason to do lockdown, and as they do it, hundreds of responder vehicles are in motion from every direction. Sirens are the overwhelming background noise. Crowds begin to run, both in and out. Every report of possible gunmen will be taken as a life or death matter. Would you move quietly away from something said to be the scene of an active shooter, or would you be running and letting people know about it as you go?

Now, to your excellent comments:

It ain't since Pizzagate, that's just a kind of milestone. It's been building for decades and especially since 9/11. Some notes on the rules governing it: There have been real or likely disinfo operations from the top down of such consequence that we are primed to it, to suspect a JFK scenario in every "lone shooter" and a false flag in every act claimed as politically motivated violence. And there has been such success for those who play in these waters as retail disinfo merchandisers and attention-seeking confusionists that they enter and do their thing and can always expect it to be multiplied and to pay out for them in clicks and audience. The corporate media is so full of industrially produced ideologically slanted and commercial bullshit that every real fact from them seems suspect. On the perpetrator side - whether lone or op - there is understanding of how to have maximum impact in the act and in its media reception. There are so many prior cases to draw from. Every incident involving a crowd and chaos will generate misperceptions of what was going on; every actual op would rely on that; the retail merchandisers multiply it.

So again, attend to the likelihoods of this case and also the nature of the story told. Where's the grand motive enabled by the Paddock story? Gun control? Seriously? Maybe if there were a half-dozen of these within a very short period. Constant increase in all forms of organized surveillance and security harrassment? When that is rolling along regardless? Is the security industry in crisis for lack of demand? Hardly. It's too general and vague for a set-up with political/economic motives, and the plausibility of a single person doing this in the cultural and social contexts of 2017 is too high. And even for an op, a single shooter (or single shooting location) is logistically the sounder option if a single shooter is what you're aiming for in the story. (Seven shooters including on ground level and not a single video is going to emerge? Seriously?)

==============================================

Notes on new reports...

Life of Paddock, long one to dissect:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/07/us/s ... vegas.html

Sure, everything's hearsay, just like the claims of gunmen and shattered glass at the Bellagio. There's no video of the latter and there would not be video from 1992 of stuff like this:

He was also willing to fight to defend what was his. During the riots in Los Angeles in the 1990s, he went to the roof of an apartment complex he owned in a flak jacket and armed with a gun, waiting for the rioters, Mr. Franks said.

Does this sound anything other than highly plausible? Familiar to many of you, even?


Otherwise, on the planes:

Mr. Paddock cherished his solitude, his brother said. In 2003, he got his pilot’s license after training in the Los Angeles area, eventually taking the extra step to get an instrument rating so that he could legally fly in cloudy conditions with limited visibility. He bought cookie-cutter houses in Texas and Nevada towns with small airports so that he could park his planes. He was utterly unremarkable.

“This guy paid on time every time and did not cause any problems at any time,” said Lt. Brian Parrish, the spokesman for the Police Department in Mesquite, Tex., where he rented a hangar for $285 a month from 2007 through 2009. He also stored planes at the small airport in Henderson, Nev., from 2002 to 2010, an airport spokesman said, though it is not clear he ever lived at the local addresses to which they had been registered.

As early as 2010, he could no longer fly his planes. His medical certificate expired, according to Federal Aviation Administration records, and there are no indications that he renewed it.

Mr. Paddock bought his last house in Mesquite, Nev., a retirement community of 18,000 people about 90 minutes from Las Vegas that attracts golfers and gamblers from around the country. He seems to have paid in cash, according to property records, and, as he did with other houses, spent very little time there.

.

[Project Willow]

Thanks for posting this PW. I really like this guy's hard-boiled NYPD cop common sense. He lives in Las Vegas and did a real investigation by talking to hotel security people off the record and knows the local terrain. He confirms what I suspected but was open to be proven wrong about i.e. that panicked people, running for their lives with bodies falling around them, out of their minds with fear (who wouldn't be) misinterpreted things like where gunshots were coming from.

I trust Ed. He believes people like me exist, and still covers stories like mine, even though he's been hoodwinked by a couple of survivors who went public before being clear of their conditioning, or having had enough treatment to come across as entirely rational. If there were more to the witness accounts that's he's investigated so far, he'd say so. There is a video I posted up thread, showing a swat team entering a casino, carrying a stretcher, pointing their guns at people. I think it's likely the reports at the other hotels were generated by this kind of activity, and that maybe some of these trigger happy cops were even firing at times. That would account for a number of witness reports as well as lack of media coverage.

But I also think that there's another phenomena or strategy at work here. Given the incredible success of the Pizzagate disinfo op, lurking in the You Tube mix are those who want to spread conspiracy theory chaos and definitively discredit anyone trying to look into what is behind SOME of these events.

Muddying the conspiracy waters is SOP, and goes way back, just like Jack says. For a recent example, there is a couple that runs a Youtube channel, "Truth Stream Media". They've got high production values, quick turnaround during events, carefully written scripts, and they sound like trained tv presenters. Producing their videos obviously requires full time, professional effort. They put out what appears to be very plausible, rational, and well sourced commentary from a conspiracy angle. Their video on Las Vegas pushes the Andelson/Chertoff security motive. It's being shared everywhere, but I don't buy them for one second. Their coverage of other topics I know quite well displays an expert level mixture of real information with false, pushes interpretations that lead investigators away from, rather than towards, legitimate sources and theories. They're professional disinfo agents.

We are swimming in a sea of false, misleading, and or agenda driven information, presented through emotionally manipulative media. It's such a mess.

[Iamwhomiam]

stickdog, many websites are notoriously slow in updating their content and often report individuals as holding positions they've moved on from. It is possible that this is the case with LVPD Officer Newton.

Regardless, no police department is prepared to respond appropriately for such an event with so many false reportings of gunfire. Being exposed to automatic gunfire from an immediately unknown location brutally incites fear in all, civilian or police. How horrible! What those that were there witnessed and lived through.

I can identify with Paddock wanting the recipe for enchiladas, though. I'm sure more than a few who enjoy cooking would identify with not wanting to die without knowing the recipe to that one special dish you so loved!

Thanks for providing the Opperman Report, Willow.

[Burnt Hill]

I can identify with Paddock wanting the recipe for enchiladas, though. I'm sure more than a few who enjoy cooking would identify with not wanting to die without knowing the recipe to that one special dish you so loved!

Ain't that the truth!
One of those little things that bring "reality" to the situation.
I did see it more as he knew he wouldn't be back, and planned on using that recipe after the getaway.

[Iamwhomiam]

By the way, Sonic, it's not the anonymous people commenting online I mind so much as those that realy enjoy the limelight, like this guy:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP2UOyZR4lY

[JackRiddler]

I've got a problem at some point with reposts of anonymous reposts of anonymous text posts that purport to be from eyewitnesses or "insiders" but throw together a salad of vague, unlikely, or obviously wrong observations. One that pisses me off in particular is making an issue of what the concert crew did with the lighting. So in an enclosed space with limited exits and 30,000 people, apparent rapid shooting starts from an uncertain location and people are dropping dead, spurring stampede behavior. You are the lighting technicians. Do you a) turn off all the lights or b) turn up all the lights you can? Hmmmm.....

[stickdog99]

OK, thanks for not burning me at the stake with Alex Jones for simply questioning the official story and providing some links I find interesting.

I have not seen or presented any clear, unambiguous evidence that there was definitely more than one shooter. The taxicab video is still stands as the best evidence I have seen of this, and it is not 100% conclusive.

Using this same standard, though, I also have not seen any clear, unambiguous evidence of any person dead from bullet wounds either: "You would think with all the cell phone footage that some unquestionable shots of this would have been clearly recorded." Watching all the videos, I also get the distinct impression the majority of the 500+ injured were injured by their drunken panic or that of others in the crowd.

But I still don't understand why it is more reasonable to assume that Paddock is a lone nut. I am still waiting for someone to produce the list of previous senior citizen millionaires who shot scores of people to death for no reason. In my humble opinion, we have been conditioned to believe that such behavior does not require any more explanation than "well, he's male." And the Farooks prove that if you are Muslim, you don't even need that in your "explanation."

Despite what Hollywood would have us believe, killing dozens of strangers for no reason and then killing yourself is still not within the boundaries rational behavior in our culture. It is the very definition of sociopathic insanity. Yes, some people get twisted enough to get sexual pleasure out rape and/or murder and thus become serial killers. But these people want to keep themselves alive and killing. And yes, "terrorism" is label that the powerful have given to asymmetric warfare, which is of course a historical fact. And yes, some powerless males become desperate and suicidal enough that they create fantasies of taking out others with them as part of their suicide "missions" in one final plea for power and relevance, and a very small minority of these heinous losers actually enact such fantasies to thunderous mass media applause.

But Paddock breaks all of these molds. He does not fit any of these profiles one iota. Nor did Tashfeen Malik Farook. Nor did the 19 Arab hijackers for that matter. Mentally stable senior citizen millionaires don't commit such acts of sociopathic insanity. Mothers with small children certainly don't commit such acts of sociopathic insanity. Finally, westernized individuals do not participate in kamikaze missions without being subject to intense conditioning. Time and time again, the various US armed forces have tried and failed to get troops to execute known suicide missions to the point that they finally gave up.

The fact that most of us are so willing to believe that many of our fellow humans want to senselessly murder us that we do not even notice anymore when somebody totally breaks the mold of previous mass shooters concerns me. This alone could serve as the entire motivation for this psyop. If so, you are evidence of its resounding success.

"So now millionaire senior citizens also want to shoot dozens for no reason whatsoever? Sure! That sounds totally credible to me! Nobody needs a motive for doing something like that. Don't millions of us secretly want to kill strangers so much that we are willing to die to get our rocks off this way? Why let 90 lb new mothers have all the fun?"

Meet the new normal. But do not try to pretend that it is the same as the old normal, fellow frogs. It just got discernibly warmer in here.

[Grizzly]

We are swimming in a sea of false, misleading, and or agenda driven information, presented through emotionally manipulative media. It's such a mess.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false"~CIA Director, William Casey

[stickdog99]

I've got a problem at some point with reposts of anonymous reposts of anonymous text posts that purport to be from eyewitnesses or "insiders" but throw together a salad of vague, unlikely, or obviously wrong observations..

Sorry, Jack, but its seems as if this is the primary way that kids today communicate. Why can't they be like we were?

[stickdog99]

stickdog, many websites are notoriously slow in updating their content and often report individuals as holding positions they've moved on from. It is possible that this is the case with LVPD Officer Newton.

60 Minutes reported yesterday that Officer Newton is still part of the K9 Unit.

Now do you get why he and he alone was chosen to relate the headline bait he provided yesterday as his own personal speculation of the meaning of a set of numbers that we are not allowed to see for ourselves?

MYSTERY OF MURDEROUS CRYPTIC NOTE SOLVED: RANDOM DOG HANDLER ON TV SPECULATES THAT IT WAS BULLET TRAJECTORY CALCULATIONS!