Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

[Burnt Hill]

Do you understand that my default is to require evidence before I convict individuals who are accused of doing something totally senseless that nobody else has ever done before in the entire history of the world? Do you get I think it is harmful to assume the likely guilt of individuals who are accused of doing something totally senseless that nobody else has ever done before in the entire history of the world without being presented any motive or evidence?

Yes, I understand those things about you.
And I know from the past that you are very smart and passionate.
That is in part why I appreciate having this discussion with you!
Let me add that I agree with your earlier post about the heuristics involved in how society processes this bs.,
that's a great topic that warrants further exploration (and reminds me of an old Jeff blog about evil)..

Everyday I fight against the harmful things you have mentioned while helping people find answers to the confusions in their own lives.

Here at RI, speculating on situations like this shouldn't be harmful to anyone.
We don't have a motive, so we speculate, its okay.

Worrying about convicting the innocent is honorable, but we cant convict or free anyone from here.

You have brought a lot of good info to this thread, I hope you keep on doing what you do!

[stillrobertpaulsen]

Looks like Daniel Hopsicker is interested in this. He just posted this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XuXNtV7-8U

And wrote:

There are a lot of unanswered questions in the Las Vegas massacre. But if this one doesn't get addressed, there needs to be a sit-in at NBC.

[stickdog99]

Now will you all at least agree that everything they have told us so far is 100% suspect?

The gunman who attacked a country-music concert in Las Vegas shot a security guard in the hotel before beginning his assault on the concertgoers, Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo said Monday, a significant change to the timeline of the massacre that officials had previously given to the public.

Officials had previously said that gunman Stephen Paddock, 64, of Mesquite, Nev., shot Mandalay Bay security guard Jesus Campos after Paddock had started shooting at the Route 91 Harvest country-music festival from his 32nd-floor hotel suite on Oct. 1.

Officials had previously credited Campos, who was shot in the leg, with stopping the 10-minute assault by turning the gunman’s attention to the hotel hallway, where Campos was checking an alert for an open door in another guest’s room.

But officials said Monday that Paddock shot Campos before his mass shooting, and they now don’t know why he stopped his attack.

Police officers who rushed to the hotel room when the shooting began didn’t know a hotel security guard had been shot “until they met him in the hallway after exiting the elevator,” Lombardo said.

****

OK, so the Jesus Campos, the hotel security guard hero was now shot at 9:59 PM, 10 minutes before the shooting of the crowd began. Will anyone ask why the security guard did not contact the police or at least his hotel security coworkers at this point and tell them about his injury?

Why wasn't this information on any police scanner? Did the supposed 200 rounds happen at 9:59? How could this occur without other hotel residents hearing the shots and calling 911 or at least the front desk? Why weren't any of the 17 armed hotel security guards immediately dispatched to investigate?

[Burnt Hill]

"There's the gunman! He's high up in the corner of that hotel!"

Look!
Up in the Sky!
Its a bird!
Its a plane!

No, its MacCruiskeen man!

Strange visitor from another realm,
who came to RI with powers and abilities
far beyond those of mortal posters!

MacCruiskeen man!

Who can change the course of investigations!
Break your will with a cutting comment!
Expose the FBI and its nefarious intent!

MacCruiskeen Man!


sorry, I have to let the voices out to play sometimes...

[stickdog99]

Do you understand that my default is to require evidence before I convict individuals who are accused of doing something totally senseless that nobody else has ever done before in the entire history of the world? Do you get I think it is harmful to assume the likely guilt of individuals who are accused of doing something totally senseless that nobody else has ever done before in the entire history of the world without being presented any motive or evidence?

Yes, I understand those things about you.
And I know from the past that you are very smart and passionate.
That is in part why I appreciate having this discussion with you!
Let me add that I agree with your earlier post about the heuristics involved in how society processes this bs.,
that's a great topic that warrants further exploration (and reminds me of an old Jeff blog about evil)..

Everyday I fight against the harmful things you have mentioned while helping people find answers to the confusions in their own lives.

Here at RI, speculating on situations like this shouldn't be harmful to anyone.
We don't have a motive, so we speculate, its okay.

Worrying about convicting the innocent is honorable, but we cant convict or free anyone from here.

You have brought a lot of good info to this thread, I hope you keep on doing what you do!

OK, thanks. I obviously get a bit wound up about stuff like this, and for that I apologize. I love all of you folks because you help me keep sane in a world gone insane, and I just don't like to see my loved ones unquestioningly buying something I truly consider the evil party line.

[stickdog99]

https://globalnews.ca/video/3793466/the ... orway-lvpd

Las Vegas police say suspect Stephen Paddock was drilling at a doorway on the Mandalay Bay hotel floor to possibly place cameras.

[stickdog99]

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2017/10 ... 507550543/

During an afternoon news conference, Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department Sheriff Joe Lombardo laid out a timeline for the shooting Oct. 1 that left 58 people dead and more than 500 injured.

He said Mandalay Bay Resort & Casino security guard Jesus Campos was shot at 9:59 p.m., 7 minutes before Stephen Paddock opened fire at the country music festival crowd from his window. Previously, police said they believed Campos was shot while attempting to stop the shooting.

Lombardo said police were unaware Campos had been shot "until they met him in the hallway after exiting the elevator" at the hotel.

[stickdog99]

http://heavy.com/news/2017/10/stephen-p ... ff-update/

Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock shot Mandalay Bay security guard Jesus Campos minutes before opening fire on the Route 91 Harvest concert festival last Sunday, killing 58 people and wounding nearly 500 others, Sheriff Joe Lombardo said Monday, changing the timeline of events.

Lombardo and other authorities had previously said Campos was shot after the gunfire began. But Lombardo now says Paddock fired at Campos from inside his room on the 32nd floor of the hotel at 9:59 p.m. Lombardo has said that Paddock unloaded more than 200 rounds into the hallway and Campos was wounded by a ricocheting bullet. The shooting began at 10:06 p.m.

The updated information changes the timeline of what happened. Police had previously said that Campos found the Paddock as he was firing into the crowd, and possibly stopped further carnage by turning his attention away from the concert festival. But Lombardo said investigators now do not know what caused Paddock to stop firing after 11 minutes of shooting.

Campos has been hailed as a hero for his actions, and Lombardo said his actions still helped officers find where the gunfire was coming from. Lombardo said Campos reported the shooting, but the responding officers did not know he had been shot until they met him “in the hallway after exiting the elevator.”

The security guard was on the 32nd floor responding to a door alarm of a different room than the one Paddock was in, Lombardo said. Campos heard drilling near the door of the room where Paddock was.

[stickdog99]

https://deadline.com/2017/10/las-vegas- ... 202185098/

The gunman behind the largest mass shooting in modern U.S. history shot Mandalay Bay Hotel security guard Jesus Campos before opening fire on 22K country-music concert goers across the Strip, police said Monday afternoon. They still have no motive in the shooting that left 58 dead and more than 400 wounded.

The encounter with Campos on the hotel’s 32nd floor happened at around 9:59 PM local time, six minutes before firing into the crowd, Sheriff Joseph Lombardo revealed at a Monday afternoon news conference. He reminded surprised journalists he had cautioned them, in their “zest for” quick facts, some facts could change as the investigation progressed. “What we have learned is Campos was encountered by the suspect prior to shooting to the outside world,” he clarified.

It had been thought the gunman stopped shooting at the crowd when distracted by the security guard, who approached his hotel suite.

Police have a “pretty comprehensive timeline prior to the shooting,” Lombardo said, but declined to say whether the high-stakes video gambler had been gambling immediately prior to embarking on his killing spree.

Lombardo explained they do not want to disclose his actions up to the shooting “because that is part of the investigation.” At this point. Lombardo added, “We do not know” what caused the shooter to stop firing on the crowd across the Las Vegas Strip.

The murderer had personal protection equipment in his suite on the 32nd floor of the hotel and was drilling in the room, which caught Campos’ attention as he was investigating an alarm related to an open door in another room of the floor, Sheriff Joseph Lombardo told reporters at news conference. It is believed he was drilling to place a camera or a rifle in position in the suite, Lombardo said.

Authorities now think the shooter checked into the suite on September 25, not the 28th as originally believed, though it was unclear if he occupied the room that early.

Authorities have checked out more than 200 instances of the deceased gunman’s activities throughout the Vegas area and found “no evidence to show a second shooter,” Lombardo said. Also, no evidence of an affiliation with a terrorist group, or belief in any radical ideology.

[Burnt Hill]

Looks like Daniel Hopsicker is interested in this. He just posted this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XuXNtV7-8U

And wrote:

There are a lot of unanswered questions in the Las Vegas massacre. But if this one doesn't get addressed, there needs to be a sit-in at NBC.

Well the end is always near.

This has a lot more credibility if the woman was really with someone else, though only the woman got taken away?.

Not clear if this was a completely first hand account of the situation though.

And eye witnesses are notoriously unreliable, as already known.

[stickdog99]

Could Las Vegas killer have been stopped? Cops reveal security guard shot six minutes BEFORE massacre started

A security guard was shot by the Las Vegas killer inside a hotel at least SIX MINUTES before the massacre began.

Jesus Campos was responding to a door alarm when he spooked Stephen Paddock who was holed up on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay armed with 23 guns.

Campos was shot in the leg and reportedly raised the alarm at 9.59pm.

But for reasons which remain unclear, police did not learn the 'exact location' of Paddock until at least 10.18pm.

Police have said previously they believe Paddock began shooting into the crowd at the Route 91 music festival at 10.05pm and continued uninterrupted until 10.15pm.

Previously, Mr Campos had been hailed a 'hero' for diverting the gunman's attention to the hallway and bringing the attack to an end.

But Sheriff Lombardo dramatically admitted that further "investigation" had led to a change in the timeline of events.

He told a press conference: "Mr Campos was encountered by the suspect, prior to his shooting to the outside world."

"He was injured prior to the mass volley of shooting."

It is now unclear what prompted Paddock to stop shooting.

And the revelation raises the question of whether Paddock could have been stopped before he went on to kill 58 people and injure more than 500.

Bodycam footage released by police last week showed officers scrambling to find out where the shooting was coming from as they responded to the chaotic scene.

There is no mention of a security guard already having been shot at the Mandalay at this point.

"We’ve got shots fired… at the Route 91. Sounded like automatic firearm," one shouted.

[stickdog99]

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/com ... s_no_note/

Sheriff Joe Lombardo at the latest press briefing said "What note? There was not a note in the suspects room, We recovered a document that had numbers associated to it, and I am not at liberty to make a guess as to what that was for."

Of course, a member of the LVPD's vaunted K9 squad was more than free to do so to feed the next round of daily headlines.

[Heaven Swan]

HS, thanks for replying to my question, or one of them anyway (although the pasted material answering Elvis' question said nothing specifically about the widespread consumption of "sadistic,violent pornography," which is what I understood him to be asking about [unless, that is, you consider all pornography to be sadistic and violent, apart, perhaps, from lesbian pornography directed and produced by lesbians for an exclusively lesbian audience?]).

What? Lesbian pornography for an exclusively lesbian audience? No. I'm into love not objectification. I've been objectified and abused and the last thing I'd want to do is objectify someone else. Even the idea of it makes me sick.

Most pornograhy openly and clearly degrades women and all of it objectifies the filmed subjects. But unless you don't watch it, you already know that.

This is OT though and I'm done discussing it.

[Iamwhomiam]

Thank you for your insight, Willow. stickdog's ridiculous questioning frustrates me no end, because it has no relevancy whatsoever. This is indeed a unique mass murder in all its aspects, and just as with many who do these shootings who wind up dead - their true motive is known only to them. Some shootings have clues, breadcrumbs to follow while others do not.

stickdog, another reason your question about finding another similarity to this shooting is ridiculous: How many of the other mass shootings would have killed more or wanted to, who don't pass the 4-murder mass murder limit? Certainly the fellow did who killed my kid, along with five others before killing himself. He shopped around for months before, looking for 'the perfect venue' and would have been able to take-out at least as many at the rave as Paddock is alleged to have killed, armed as he was wearing two bandoliers of bullets with an AR-15 with 3 - 30 round clips taped to its stock and another loaded into the receiver, a .40 Cal Ruger semi-automatic pistol, and a pistol-grip 12 Ga semi-automatic shotgun, but he was deferred more by the number of well armed security hired by the well run community center hosting the dance/rave then the local police headquarters just across the street and down on the corner.

So he settled for killing as many of those attending the after party he had been invited to as he could, but he left the AR in the truck, using only the 12 Ga and the Ruger. Took three minutes to shatter a great many lives.

Please note I've edited my earlier comment regarding mass murders happening near daily to read the more accurate, "mass shootings."

Also, stickdog, one other thing; first let me state that I have never witnessed a murder, though I've seen my share of dead and dying bodies. While most everyone here excepting elfis reacts to such events imagining the horrors elfis and every other survivor of any shooting feels, he feels it differently than you or I because he survived living though such a traumatic event - he relives it.

Similarly, I have suffered the loss of my son, a victim in a mass murder, so when these events happen I too feel the pain I know survivors who have lost their loved ones are feeling, and man, it makes my heart ache.

Funny how times change. Back in 2006 six people getting killed was a big deal; now that number of fatalities is too low to be worthy mentioning.

Lastly, really! In that you claim ignorance of a Muslim rebel organization operating in the Philippines makes me believe you haven't been reading the comments in the thread. Back on page 9 I mention possible involvement of the Moro Islamic Liberation Front. (It was only funny because I said it before AJ, but he rarely disappoints. He finally got there!)

I also provided you with other possible motives - he's sympathetic to Bundy and pissed off at his treatment by our government. These two possible motives you didn't even recognize were raised when asking for other possible motives for an old wealthy guy committing slaughter before killing himself. While some want to see the hotel hallway videos and I want to see Paddock's.

And with your undying pursuit of repeatedly asking the same question, well, I've just gotta ask you and this I do most politely - stickdog, are you a bot?

Can you prove that?

[stickdog99]

The "crazy" thing abut this is that the police can come out 8 days after the fact and completely change their story while opening up a whole huge set of totally obvious new questions such as:

Why didn't Campos contact the police or at least his hotel security coworkers at 9:59 to tell them he had been shot?

If he did so, then why wasn't this information reported on any police scanner?

Did the supposed 200 rounds shot at Campos also happen at 9:59?

How could this occur without other hotel residents hearing the shots and calling 911 or at least the front desk?

Why weren't any of the 17 armed hotel security guards immediately dispatched to investigate?

Why was it a complete surprise to the cops when they found an injured Campos on that floor some 13 minutes after he was shot?

What didn't the hotel security cameras catch Paddock drilling expensive hotel property?

Why didn't other guests report any of this drilling or shooting to the front desk or the police?

But not a single reporter present at the press conference, er, release asked a single one of these questions!

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-veg ... story.html

Las Vegas gunman shot security guard a full six minutes before opening fire on concertgoers, police reveal

Police have dramatically changed their account of how the Las Vegas massacre began on Oct. 1, revealing Monday that the gunman shot a hotel security guard six minutes before opening fire on a country-music concert — raising new questions about why police weren’t able to pinpoint the gunman’s location sooner.

Officials had previously said that gunman Stephen Paddock, 64, of Mesquite, Nev., shot Mandalay Bay security guard Jesus Campos after Paddock had unleashed his deadly volley at the Route 91 Harvest country music festival, an assault that began at 10:05 p.m.

Officials had previously credited Campos, who was shot in the leg, with stopping the 10-minute assault on the concert crowd by turning the gunman’s attention to the hotel hallway, where Campos was checking an alert for an open door in another guest’s room.

But Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo said Monday that Paddock shot Campos before his mass shooting — at 9:59 p.m. — and they now don’t know why Paddock stopped his attack on the crowd.

Paddock, who had placed security cameras outside his room, shot Campos through the door of his suite, which was outfitted with a camera to survey the hallway, as was a room service cart parked outside. Police have said that Paddock fired 200 rounds into the hallway.

Investigators previously said that the security guard was shot after Paddock had already spent 10 minutes firing into the crowd of concertgoers gathered below the hotel.

In a timeline released last week, investigators said Paddock had stopped firing at the concert across the street at 10:15 p.m., and the first police officers arrived on the floor at 10:17 p.m. and encountered the wounded Campos at 10:18 p.m., who directed the officers to Paddock’s suite.

Police were not in a hurry to enter Paddock’s suite because the security guard’s arrival had halted the shooting, police said in previously describing the timeline.

But on Monday, the timeline changed.

“Mr. Campos was encountered by the suspect prior to his shooting to the outside world,” Lombardo said at a Monday news conference.

Police officers who started searching the hotel after the shooting began didn’t know a hotel security guard had been shot “until they met him in the hallway after exiting the elevator,” Lombardo said.

Charles "Sid" Heal, a retired Los Angeles County sheriff's commander and tactical expert, said the new timeline “changes the whole perspective of the shooting."

Heal said that if police had known immediately that a guard had been shot, they would have rushed the room while the gunman was still firing. He said it seemed to signal a breakdown in communication.

“It doesn't say much for hotel security,” Heal said.

After Campos was shot, a maintenance worker appeared on the 32nd floor and “Campos prevented him from receiving any injuries,” Lombardo said.

The sheriff also revealed that Paddock had started drilling a hole next to the door of his suite, but the drilling apparently was not completed, and officials weren’t sure what the hole was for.