Guns (Yawn)

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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:22 pm

Karmamatterz » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:12 pm wrote:
You're apparently so thickheaded, Karma that, you can't understand the idea that tools that make something easier might have some relationship to how common it is.

Why is that so difficult for you go understand?


Duh, I GET it. Try removing your own blinders. Try looking at this without your narrative. No shit sherlock, sometimes a gun is more efficient for killing. Nobody is saying they aren't. Find the quote where I wrote that guns are not a weapon of choice for mass shooting sprees.


No, you haven't stated it directly, only posted a bunch of statistics and observations in which that is the implication.

If you have some other point to make, I guess I am too thick-headed to get it. Please clarify specifically what your point is.

As to my own narrative, you have no freaking idea what that is, as I have specifically avoided stating my personal and complex views on guns and gun ownership in an effort to avoid the usual bullshit that comes with such discussions.

I do believe that no one who is being intellectually honest can credibly deny that there is a correlation between the prominence of guns in America and the prominence of mass killings in places like American schools. If that's not the argument you're attempting to make with your posting of knife statistics and pointing out the obvious fact that other tools can be used as weapons, I would appreciate it if you would correct my assumptions.

Edit: Consider this my attempt to turn the heat down a tad and understand exactly what you ARE saying.
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby Karmamatterz » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:30 pm

I do believe that no one who is being intellectually honest can credibly deny that there is a correlation between the prominence of guns in America and the prominence of mass killings in places like American schools


There is a correlation, but it really seems like there are other factors. I have not heard anybody, pro or anti gun really be able to explain what the hell is going on. It's not just that guns are around, there seems to be some other high weirdness. I don't know how else to explain it. Copy cats? Insanity? Anti-social behavior? What is going on with all these people that they are flipping out and doing this shit? It's crazy. Seriously.

Been really poking around and found this. Never heard of the site so I can't vouch for it in any fashion. But there is an ugly trend behind the people and their prescription drugs.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/02/bri ... sing-link/

Consider the following history:

Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the public.

Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.
Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.
Chris Fetters, age 13, while taking Prozac, killed his favorite aunt.
Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.
Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.
Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.
Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.
Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded.
Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.
TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his classmates.
James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls and wounding seven other children and two teachers.
Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania
Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school shooting in El Cajon, California
Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.
Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who, for no apparent motive, killed a woman.
Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledgehammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.
Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially, it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.
Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.
Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.
Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a ladder at the family’s home in July 2002.
Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said “…. the damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil…”)
Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002, (Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death and killed himself.)
Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s garage.
Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt in his closet.
Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.
Woody __, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death, his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of
Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”
Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazepine.
Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax, and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.
Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.
Asa Coon, Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.
Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.
Missing from list… 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds:

Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21…… killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az?
James Eagan Holmes on, age 24….. killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado?
Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or?
Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct?
Only readers lacking that keen sense for the obvious will miss the culprit here. Kudos to Herb London, President of the London Center for Policy Research. Appearing on Fox Business News with Stuart Varney, who plainly stated he had no answers, asked London for his take and received this response:

“ Three-fourths of the population of the United State is taking psychotropic drugs. But all we focus on are guns. Violence is built into the very nature of popular culture. Entertainment? Violent. Rap music? Violent. It’s all around us. We in the US tend to ignore these matters and look at one issue: guns. But it’s not just guns, it is an environment where violence is promoted.”
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:41 pm

Karmamatterz » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:30 pm wrote:
I do believe that no one who is being intellectually honest can credibly deny that there is a correlation between the prominence of guns in America and the prominence of mass killings in places like American schools


There is a correlation, but it really seems like there are other factors. I have not heard anybody, pro or anti gun really be able to explain what the hell is going on. It's not just that guns are around, there seems to be some other high weirdness. I don't know how else to explain it. Copy cats? Insanity? Anti-social behavior? What is going on with all these people that they are flipping out and doing this shit? It's crazy. Seriously.


That much I can agree with - there is more going on to inspire so many youth especially to aspire to acts of mass murder.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a connection to the use of certain anti-psychotic drugs.

That said, I don't specifically recall why and don't feel like looking him up just this moment, but Lew Rockwell did land on my list of questionable sources some time ago.
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby Belligerent Savant » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:58 pm

Karmamatterz » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:30 pm wrote:
“ Three-fourths of the population of the United State is taking psychotropic drugs. But all we focus on are guns. Violence is built into the very nature of popular culture. Entertainment? Violent. Rap music? Violent. It’s all around us. We in the US tend to ignore these matters and look at one issue: guns. But it’s not just guns, it is an environment where violence is promoted.”


"Outlawing" guns will not remove this disease; at best it's a "solution" that hacks at branches rather than focusing on root causes. There are systemic societal ills at play here, and the influence/impact of media/pop culture glorification of violence coupled with psychotropic drug intake at a mass scale should not be overlooked as key contributors to this recurring and increasingly pervasive, and largely U.S.-based, crisis.
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby PufPuf93 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:38 pm

Karmamatterz » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:01 pm wrote:
Your list above is completely pointless. Of course you can kill people with any number of things. So what? It has no relevance to the gun debate. You're saying that people can be killed with knives so we shouldn't do anything about guns, which is ridiculous.


I guess it has to be pointed out to you since you're being thick headed.

There are plenty of things that can be used as weapons. Guns are not the only weapons out there. It's obviously going over your head that if someone wants to kill they will find whatever weapon(s) they can. Motive and opportunity play a role. Want to make a political statement? Pack a truck full of fertilizer. Insane and full of rage over being bullied? Buy or steal a gun. Can't find one of those? Use a hammer or knife. Steal a car, or use your parent's car. Guns aren't the only weapon. Why is that so difficult for you go understand?


Karma

One can "what about this then" continuously and never make progress on one topic.

Your topics are worthwhile but here are a justification for skirting rather than staying to the topics specific to guns.

The discussion here at RI in this thread is about guns and not other weapons nor articles that conceivably used for weapons.

The thread is more worthwhile if RI sticks to guns and leaves other topics to other threads.
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby Blue » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:04 pm

Belligerent Savant » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:58 pm wrote:
Karmamatterz » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:30 pm wrote:
“ Three-fourths of the population of the United State is taking psychotropic drugs. But all we focus on are guns. Violence is built into the very nature of popular culture. Entertainment? Violent. Rap music? Violent. It’s all around us. We in the US tend to ignore these matters and look at one issue: guns. But it’s not just guns, it is an environment where violence is promoted.”


"Outlawing" guns will not remove this disease; at best it's a "solution" that hacks at branches rather than focusing on root causes. There are systemic societal ills at play here, and the influence/impact of media/pop culture glorification of violence coupled with psychotropic drug intake at a mass scale should not be overlooked as key contributors to this recurring and increasingly pervasive, and largely U.S.-based, crisis.


Bullshit. While I agree with violence as entertainment and drugs including vaccines and fake food that people, especially young Americans have ingested since birth are contributors, how on Earth can anyone seriously deny the gun itself is the problem. Outlaw ain't the word. Curb is being used. JFK.
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby Belligerent Savant » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:20 pm

.
No, guns are not "the" problem. They may be part of the problem, but not the sole source. "curbing" may add a layer of time and effort to obtaining guns, but it won't stop someone of a particular mindset from obtaining them, illegally or otherwise.
(also: you call "bullshit" but then in the next sentence agree with the sentiment that drugs/pop culture are 'contributors'...which is it?)
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby Rory » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:26 pm

Blue » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:04 pm wrote:
Belligerent Savant » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:58 pm wrote:
Karmamatterz » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:30 pm wrote:
“ Three-fourths of the population of the United State is taking psychotropic drugs. But all we focus on are guns. Violence is built into the very nature of popular culture. Entertainment? Violent. Rap music? Violent. It’s all around us. We in the US tend to ignore these matters and look at one issue: guns. But it’s not just guns, it is an environment where violence is promoted.”


"Outlawing" guns will not remove this disease; at best it's a "solution" that hacks at branches rather than focusing on root causes. There are systemic societal ills at play here, and the influence/impact of media/pop culture glorification of violence coupled with psychotropic drug intake at a mass scale should not be overlooked as key contributors to this recurring and increasingly pervasive, and largely U.S.-based, crisis.


Bullshit. While I agree with violence as entertainment and drugs including vaccines and fake food that people, especially young Americans have ingested since birth are contributors, how on Earth can anyone seriously deny the gun itself is the problem. Outlaw ain't the word. Curb is being used. JFK.


Wow. How Lord of the Flies of you
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:39 pm

Rory » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:26 pm wrote:
Blue » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:04 pm wrote:
Belligerent Savant » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:58 pm wrote:
Karmamatterz » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:30 pm wrote:
“ Three-fourths of the population of the United State is taking psychotropic drugs. But all we focus on are guns. Violence is built into the very nature of popular culture. Entertainment? Violent. Rap music? Violent. It’s all around us. We in the US tend to ignore these matters and look at one issue: guns. But it’s not just guns, it is an environment where violence is promoted.”


"Outlawing" guns will not remove this disease; at best it's a "solution" that hacks at branches rather than focusing on root causes. There are systemic societal ills at play here, and the influence/impact of media/pop culture glorification of violence coupled with psychotropic drug intake at a mass scale should not be overlooked as key contributors to this recurring and increasingly pervasive, and largely U.S.-based, crisis.


Bullshit. While I agree with violence as entertainment and drugs including vaccines and fake food that people, especially young Americans have ingested since birth are contributors, how on Earth can anyone seriously deny the gun itself is the problem. Outlaw ain't the word. Curb is being used. JFK.


Wow. How Lord of the Flies of you


Since we are on our own here you are going to have to contain yourself Rory

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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby Rory » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:45 pm

.
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:46 pm

so what?

Jeff » Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:38 am wrote:
Welcome to the RI board.

While Rigorous Intuition welcomes a range of informed perspectives, it is not intended to be a forum for the re-fighting of elemental human values. It should be assumed that this is a place where the dignity and rights of all people are respected. Members who challenge these rights may be regarded as disruptive, and members who habitually challenge them will be banned.

This is an anti-fascist board. Propagation of fascist, neo-Nazi and "white pride" causes, including sympathetically linking to sites which advocate such, will not be permitted. This includes revisionist histories of the Holocaust.

This is an anti-sexist board. We correctly assume that women, as a group, have been and continue to be the object of oppression based upon their gender. It is expected that members will respect the rights of women to justice and equality in all spheres of life, and to a positive experience of RI. Contending that feminism is a "New World Order plot" will not be permitted.

Posts advocating violence, or espousing hatred of a people based upon race, religion, gender or sexuality, are not permitted.

The charge or insinuation of "disinfo agent" can almost never be proven, and poisons and often ends meaningful discussion. Therefore suggesting a poster is purposefully spreading disinformation is not permitted.

Please refrain from personal attacks, and keep arguments issue-based.

Members can help maintain the health of the board. If you see something that you think needs attention, please pm myself or a moderator with the link, or use the alert button.

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Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby Rory » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:49 pm

.
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby peartreed » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:52 pm

No, Rory. You take that title by a landslide.
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby Blue » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:04 pm

Belligerent Savant » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:20 pm wrote:.
No, guns are not "the" problem. They may be part of the problem, but not the sole source. "curbing" may add a layer of time and effort to obtaining guns, but it won't stop someone of a particular mindset from obtaining them, illegally or otherwise.
(also: you call "bullshit" but then in the next sentence agree with the sentiment that drugs/pop culture are 'contributors'...which is it?)


Jaysus. I said bullshit to the minimizing of guns. The culture of guns. The outright insistence by the government, the industry, the entire American culture that weapons of mass assault are every red blooded American's right.

I agreed that the other things (and of the course the toxic masculinity wave happening now) contribute as well to mass shootings.

And the lame excuse that "it won't stop someone of a particular mindset..." is the weakest excuse ever. Nobody is saying gun control will eliminate mass shootings of innocent people 100% of the time.
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Re: Guns (Yawn)

Postby Cordelia » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:07 pm

Meanwhile,

Image
Outside White House, teens demonstrate for gun control after school shooting

By Rachel Chason February 19

Seventeen high school students lay down for three minutes in front of the White House on Monday to represent the lives lost during the shooting at Florida’s Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School and the amount of time it takes to buy a gun.

They were joined by several hundred protesters who demanded that lawmakers act to end gun violence during an emotional demonstration on Presidents’ Day.

The D.C. protest echoed those orchestrated in Parkland, Fla., and beyond by teenagers who are emerging as powerful advocates for stronger gun control following one of the worst mass shootings at a school in U.S. history.

“This could be a breaking point,” said Whitney Bowen, 16, an organizer of the D.C. protest. “We’re still just 16, but at least we’re old enough to have our voices be heard.”

Continued....
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc ... e7f8e88755


Brave kids, demonstrating outside the armed fortress/arsenal that has become the W.H. over the course of several administrations. Ironic too, that they were literally 'under the gun' since, at all times there are snipers on the roof, with all below potentially in their sights.

Image

Image

Image
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