Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby chump » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:21 am

alloneword » Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:51 am wrote:Rhyme, like clunky alliteration
Is literary masturbation.

;)


Sounds like a personal problem, Pal


*edited to add the quote for context
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby stillrobertpaulsen » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:55 pm

peartreed » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:05 pm wrote:If the new mods impose a limit on copied articles pasted to threads, I’ll likely look for a different forum and board to find the ongoing news coverage of subjects and stories and discussions that I follow here. I have a compulsive interest in news.

I’ve been frustrated that tv and radio news both limit coverage depth due to time, and newspapers and magazines are constrained by production delays to be timely and current. The internet offers immediate and ongoing exposure of breaking news and its follow-up discussion, but only certain sites and interactive boards like this one consolidate coverage by topics of interest into threads of in-depth content.

And this board is valuable to me largely because people like SLAD and AD maintain an effort to collect and provide a variety of topic threads and posts that maintain current coverage of themes and topics of real, vital interest to me, like Trump’s dangerous, everyday ineptitude and fascism’s evil infiltration into everyday events.

What others find as intrusive and extensive “copypasta” interrupting discussion, I find to be a very convenient, consolidated and current collection of relevant, in-depth, ongoing news from a variety of sources I’d otherwise likely not connect to. The topical discussion those posts instigate here is often of a higher quality too.

I don’t understand why those less interested, indifferent, or resentful of that volume, don’t simply bypass it, ignore it or start their own threads of topics more appealing.

If the few dissenters persuade the mods to impose an arbitrary limit on copied articles in such postings frequency or volume, content censorship or any time restrictions on copied content continuity of coverage as it develops in the news, then I’m going to find a more open and permissive place to pursue my interests.

Reverting the format of the forum back to its origins without pictures or technical editing tricks would be another regressive step into a restrictive past practice. I joined up here with my fellow countryman Jeff Wells to keep up with the times, but the negativity of the naysayers and second-guessers and, in some cases, RI reformers got to him too.

I love the debate and interplay of opinions and insights on topic, but I detest the personalized arguments and bullying and mean rhetoric.


I've been meaning to respond to you for a while, peartreed. Obviously your contributions and participation is valued here, so we don't want you going elsewhere. I hope that some of my subsequent posts (and posts of others) have addressed your concerns. Nothing will be censored, the goal is to encourage better discussion in the forum named General Discussion.

As far as having a compulsive interest in the news, I share that with you, and there's no better place to filter the news than through the lens of Rigorous Intuition. My feeling is that I like some of the other ideas presented here on how to improve that lens: I particularly like the idea of creating a Breaking News Forum. I also like the idea of renaming Data Dump something like Research Archive Forum; something about putting the name "Dump" in a forum name makes it less appealing. Unfortunately, we don't have control of that set-up as moderators, but I am open to approaching Jeff about that. He's still ultimately in charge here.

peartreed » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:59 pm wrote:If everyone applied more than just rigorous intuition to challenging opinions, the exchanges online might involve more enjoyable social propriety, tolerance and testing before deteriorating into derogatory derision.
I absolutely agree with that assertion. Rigorous intuition is just a starting point!
"Huey Long once said, “Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism.” I'm afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security."
-Jim Garrison 1967
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Sounder » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:02 pm

I have a compulsive interest in news.


Then I totally understand your stance on these matters. For my part, while I like to be informed, it doesn't feel so good to be indoctrinated.

I seldom, one or twice a year, watch or monitor mainstream news. I listen to no radio whatsoever, excepting background stuff.

One TV show I like, very few movies and the occasional sports event. I mention this to make the point that if ones media contact is greatly reduced, the effect produced upon contact is of constant caricatures of comedy.

Call me a spoil sport, but it upsets me when people say 'Never again'.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby peartreed » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:26 pm

A moderator on a mission is the most meaningful method of making improvements to member morale. The term “moderate” implies mediating amidst extremes, meeting in the middle, making modest moves among misunderstandings to maintain manners. Maybe more like a magistrate mending mayhem and madness.

I envy anyone with the equanimity to endure that embattled, exasperating effort - especially amongst the snarky, sneering, sniping snakes sneaking out of sewers,
or the trolls trying to attract attention to themselves by trying and testing tempers.

My purpose here remains one of perusing news and amusing views for clues about who’s abusing the soothing muse we choose, and stand to lose like other zoos.

All the best to all the rest who will contest the nest we’ve messed at my behest.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby American Dream » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:14 pm

stillrobertpaulsen » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:57 pm wrote:Sure. But am I correct in my interpretation? Are you saying yes to my request?


I took what you said as a recommendation and not a request because that was literally what you said. It would help to be more clear on what the phrase "an article like this" does and does not mean. I hope you'll excuse my guardedness but I'm being real. I'm holding out space for good faith in all directions.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Elvis » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:11 am

stillrobertpaulsen wrote: they use the word conspis to disparage people who doubt the official story of 9/11 and the death of Princess Di, which leads me to believe this is simply a derogatory word for conspiracy theorists, which RI is a safe haven for people to post about without disparagement.


Thank you for that much-needed reminder.

In my opinion that article (and 100s more like it) doesn't belong on RI, unless in the "CT in the Media" thread.

For those wringing their hands unsure what or what not to do, I recommend for starters just don't "use the word conspis to disparage people who doubt the official story of 9/11." It's disparaging and insulting. With all respect, save it for Salon.
"It seems to be what we have now is a political system which has essentially become, for the last thirty or forty years, a war on the human imagination."
(David Graeber)
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby dada » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:25 pm

On compulsive newsreading: I don't share this compulsion. A compulsion, to me, is something one wants to be free of, a habit one wishes to break. Certainly not something one wears proudly like a badge of honor.

So there's a wide range of outlooks represented on this board. You might think the idea is to figure out a way to maintain that diversity. I might not. In fact, I am actively looking for the straw that will break the camel's back. Please, let me close this tab in disgust, and never look back.

A wide range of outlooks, I say.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby minime » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:44 pm

dada » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:25 pm wrote:On compulsive newsreading: I don't share this compulsion. A compulsion, to me, is something one wants to be free of, a habit one wishes to break. Certainly not something one wears proudly like a badge of honor.

So there's a wide range of outlooks represented on this board. You might think the idea is to figure out a way to maintain that diversity. I might not. In fact, I am actively looking for the straw that will break the camel's back. Please, let me close this tab in disgust, and never look back.

A wide range of outlooks, I say.


This is unclear to me. Sometimes metaphors are unhelpful without further explanation. What straw? What camel? What are the metaphrand, metaphier, paraphrand and paraphier in your metaphor?
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby dada » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:27 pm

The camel's back is an absurd feeling of attachment or responsibility toward this board. The straw would be the invisible cue that I'm free to go.

There's always the possibility that there is no straw. But as I'm looking for one, I will most likely find it. Otherwise I'll invent one, if need be.

Nothing to be concerned about. I'm not concerned. I'm harboring no ill will. Only sharing my speedily unraveling thought processes, here. I'm searching for an entirely subjective straw. An "it's not you, it's me" kind of thing.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby norton ash » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Two straws, please. I'm sharing this hemlock shake with a friend.
Zen horse
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby American Dream » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:08 pm

I've let things percolate a bit more and given that there is no formal rule, I can say at least that I will take the recommendation seriously. It's really a balancing act in that Conspiracism can definitely become a negative "ism", and mitigating the excesses of that can be a matter of life or death. I am against Anarchism or Marxism when they become negative "isms", in that same sense too. In this case, while I can't guarantee that I will achieve 100% on a subjective standard regarding language, I can guarantee that I will take the underlying concern to heart.

We are smashing the idols every day at R.I. Retaining critical thinking is in a certain sort of tension with respecting each and every individual here. Keeping critical discourse alive while minimizing the ad hominem towards other members is a reasonable goal to me. I plan to do significantly better than the average bear.

American Dream » Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:14 pm wrote:
stillrobertpaulsen » Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:57 pm wrote:Sure. But am I correct in my interpretation? Are you saying yes to my request?


I took what you said as a recommendation and not a request because that was literally what you said. It would help to be more clear on what the phrase "an article like this" does and does not mean. I hope you'll excuse my guardedness but I'm being real. I'm holding out space for good faith in all directions.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby minime » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:09 pm

dada » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:27 pm wrote:The camel's back is an absurd feeling of attachment or responsibility toward this board. The straw would be the invisible cue that I'm free to go.

There's always the possibility that there is no straw. But as I'm looking for one, I will most likely find it. Otherwise I'll invent one, if need be.

Nothing to be concerned about. I'm not concerned. I'm harboring no ill will. Only sharing my speedily unraveling thought processes, here. I'm searching for an entirely subjective straw. An "it's not you, it's me" kind of thing.


when exodus turns pilgrimage...
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Blue » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:43 pm

dada » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:27 pm wrote:The camel's back is an absurd feeling of attachment or responsibility toward this board. The straw would be the invisible cue that I'm free to go.


I think you bring a refreshing vibe to RI, dada. Your posts either make me laugh or think about things in a new way or push me to try and catch up or all of the above.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby peartreed » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:28 pm

Moderating is a difficult challenge and I just wanted to commend our two new moderators on their even-handed and considerate communication with disruptors while bringing the board back to comparatively peaceful resolution. Your tackling the tough task and your tactful handling of it is very much appreciated.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby dada » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:57 pm

norton ash wrote:Two straws, please. I'm sharing this hemlock shake with a friend.


Hemlock, hemlock everywhere, and not a straw to drink it with.

==

minime wrote:when exodus turns pilgrimage...


So, something like this?

Step up and join us now and don't be afraid
Our party's starting to become a charade!






--

Blue wrote:I think you bring a refreshing vibe to RI, dada. Your posts either make me laugh or think about things in a new way or push me to try and catch up or all of the above.


Thank you for that, Blue. I try to bring my a-game here.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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