The Russian Conspiracy as RI subject

[Jerky]

"Sunday’s fire apparently claimed an entire class of schoolchildren, some of whom died after calling parents or other relatives on their cellphones to say goodbye. Others posted desperate messages on social media before falling silent."

Jesus Christ...

[JackRiddler]

The horror of the mall fire is attributable to the real system under the real ruling class of Russia.

This is a riff on matters from several threads, most directly the "Amazing Assange" or whatever it's called, which makes me allergic because I hate stupid thread titles.

I do not attack "liberals." If it's not about history but recent times and the present, I don't even bother anymore with this debased term "liberal," except to point out that it's invariably misused (in different ways, but mostly as an attack term). Neoliberal means something. "Liberal" is always a contentious projection. The most ludicrous aspect is its conflation in U.S. "mainstream" (corporate media approved) discourse with everything nominally to the left of the GOP, from Joe Biden to John the Communist.

The current propaganda about "Russia" (or a projected version thereof) by far isn't worse (yet) than the 1950s in terms of its consequences to ordinary U.S. humans, who aren't being fired, blacklisted or otherwise terrorized at the workplace in the literal millions because of it. (Again: yet. They are being terrorized at the workplace for much more mundane capitalist reasons. And the surveillance regime is far more panoptic.) When I say it is worse that is because it is such a fucking farce narrative that obscures the possibility of actual nuclear war (unlike the Cold War rhetoric, which may have exaggerated it slightly). There would probably be no instant MAD here, just a slide of limited exchanges starting on a "periphery," (which won't be peripheral to the targets, but anyway), which is why it's likelier.

The "Russiagate" narrative is also worse because it doesn't actually make any sense and is mostly fantastical. I was not pro-Soviet communist (state socialist, debased workers' state, state capitalist, Stalinist nightmare, one-party totalitarianism pretending to be socialist, whatever it was; it had something of all of these) and definitely not anti-communist (a coherent ideology that was not really about communism but disciplining Western domestic politics). But the difference in systems existed and the blocs were delineated and locked in a confrontation, seeking geopolitical advantages according to criteria that were rational (if you accepted the overall craziness in the first place).

Here we have chaos and a constantly shifting multi-multi polarity, with most power moves obscured via cover of oligarchic ownership or secrecy regimes, and this "Russiagate" nonsense and Putin-centricity is a laughable way of ordering any of it that basically leaves people much dumber than before. And it's worse because it's so self-evidently unnecessary. And it's worse because we are on the brink of a no-point-of-return eco-collapse that makes all scenarios short of nuclear war look better by comparison. And it's worse because there is no fucking top-level system conflict. The U.S. and Russia share the same fucked-up political economy of a kleptocratic oligarchy expropriating everything into private corporations and using an increasingly authoritarian state (in Russia worse! yes! so fucking what!) as a self-service plunder machine to concentrate wealth in ever-fewer hands; while the majority is subjected to the neoliberal work regime or aggressive impoverishment and starved and suffocated of solidarity and hope for anything better. In fact, it was the U.S. that did more than any other outside power to impose that system on Russia in the wake of 1991. So, mission accomplished, right? What's the fucking complaint, you got your damned "Pinochet solution" in Moscow. Oh, does he not dance well enough to your tune? (Sort of apropos, just remembered Pinochet confirmably murdered two people working in opposition to him in Washington DC, 1976 -- Orlando Letelier and U.S. citizen Randi Moffit -- and this didn't change a thing in U.S.-Chilean relations, by the way.)

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[peartreed]

I agree that both Russia and the USA under Trump are kleptocratic oligarchies under continuing development and expansion - until viable, organized oppositions can be formed on a massive government and social scale to stop them. That is not a realistic expectation in the short term. The situation has to first become known.

The veil is lifting gradually by slow revelations like the Mueller investigation. The closer it gets to the truth the more vulnerable it becomes to being stopped cold. Intelligence organizations need to live up to their name and stay the course.

If one or another regime falls through its own incompetence, it will be replaced by another like it – as long as the door remains open for today’s political and psychological mind manipulation of the masses through corrupted, instant media.

The recent, ongoing investigations have further revealed the real likelihood of confidential mutual support, objectives, hidden financing and laundering systems.

Neither Russia nor the US government is orchestrating this global grab for power and control alone, as the corporate and industrial conglomerates are in on it too. It comes down to their shared mandate - the pursuit of maximum profit, power and position over resources – both natural, manufactured and – obviously - human.

I also agree that we’re on the brink of self-destruction because of the territorial competitions implicit in military and economic and social dominance by region. The wannabe empire oligarchs also have fragile egos prone to temper and meltdowns. Power mad paranoiacs press buttons. Nuclear means the next war is the last.

Short of an alien invasion from a parallel universe, we have to find the courage within ourselves to organize ourselves into an effective counterforce and take control of the same tools the oligarchs use to manipulate us. It's not left versus right. It's survival versus death.

Expect fatal retaliation.

That’s a near-impossible task that can only begin individually with self-sacrificing idealism, ideas and action - and a commensurate commitment to communicate with like-minded, motivated people to join forces to, together, gradually bring about the needed change. It first requires awareness of the problem demanding a solution.

The priority pursuit of profit has to give way to the pursuit of peace.

It’s a race to the finish already underway as we look up from the starting blocks.

I’m not sure anyone would bet a pay day on the success of that goal reversal.

[dada]

And it's worse because it's so self-evidently unnecessary.

I'd say it depends on whether you're looking at it from the top, down, or from the bottom, up. From the top, the propaganda is absolutely necessary.

[liminalOyster]

The veil is lifting gradually by slow revelations like the Mueller investigation. .

Which veil? Is it much of a reveal? Where does that put us then? Back to the usual baseline of all the many other hideous and deeply entrenched veils that we lived with before 11/16? Are we learning anything in the Mueller investigation about, well anything other than the carnivalesque melting brain man occupying the executive like a dive bar toilet stall?

[JackRiddler]

For now I think things are closer to going out of top-down control in the Anglosphere West, one reason why the Russiagate propaganda remains so pervasive and applied to everything.

[Elvis]

Back to the usual baseline of all the many other hideous and deeply entrenched veils that we lived with before 11/16?

metaphor trifecta!

And now back to our topic....

[dada]

For now I think things are closer to going out of top-down control in the Anglosphere West, one reason why the Russiagate propaganda remains so pervasive and applied to everything.

That's the fear, at least. And who can blame top-down control for being afraid. Glancing nervously at Italy, seeing that scary Five Star Party or whatever it's called. Democrats, Inc could be obsolete in the span of two election cycles.

[overcoming hope]

I think this forum is a microcosm of the Russian news coverage nationwide. Look how inundated the board is with the stuff. See how distracting it is. Feel how frustrating it is to try and have a discussion that doesn't get sidetracked with machine gun coverage of russia, russia, russia. I guess where there is smoke there is fire, or maybe in this case where there is flatulence there is shit.

[dada]

I think this forum is a microcosm of the Russian news coverage nationwide. Look how inundated the board is with the stuff. See how distracting it is.

I think it's really just the same old problem on the Left, being expressed in another way. It's a continuation of the center-left's war on their true enemy. Anyone further to the left.

Of course there actually are some people who identify as old left 'reds,' who think temporary alliances with the "enemy of their enemy" is a workable strategy. This idea is absurd to most on the Left. But that doesn't stop the center-left from latching on to it as evidence of the bankruptcy of any politics further to the Left.

This to me reveals that it really isn't about anyone's opinion on Russia, but about keeping the rest of the Left at arm's length.

[Grizzly]

"The Left" ... There hasn't been a 'left' in four decades.

[dada]

I know what you mean, Grizzly.

There are people who hold political views that are further left than center-left, though. Maybe they can't be called "the Left." They can't be called progressives, either, as that's a term co-opted by the Democrats.

These are people with no voice in mainstream politics, that hold views which are marginalized in the media.

They still influence elections, though. I don't think Russia, or Cambridge Analytica swung the election for Donald, I maintain that it was the lack of turnout that did it. (If I can't call them "The Left," I can't say "it was lack of turn out on the Left" that did it. This makes the task of communicating the point I'm trying to make difficult. But maybe that's a good thing. Maybe it's time to come up with some new terminology.)

Edited to add: Just wanted to point out that we're talking about the "American Left," or lack of it. Discussing The Left in other countries, or globally, this conversation might play out with varying similarities and differences.

[Elvis]

There are people who hold political views that are further left than center-left, though. Maybe they can't be called "the Left." They can't be called progressives, either, as that's a term co-opted by the Democrats.

When the question comes up, I've just starting saying, "I'm a socialist."

I think that's somewhat more clear than "liberal" or "left": one has too-specific connotations and the other is too ill-defined.

And thanks partly to Bernie Sanders' campaign successes, 'socialist' isn't nearly such a dirty word anymore—odd as that may seem in the current milieu. After Bernie, socialism is back on the table.

I just hope socialists don't fuck up the opportunity.

[dada]

I try to avoid conventional political conversations. But if the question of my political affiliation does come up, I just take the apophatic approach and say no to everything, right down the list.

If socialist works for you, I say go for it.

[Elvis]

If socialist works for you, I say go for it.

In those circumstances, it mainly means, "I'm not a redneck who swallows that trickle-down bullshit."

I'm really just a hippie.