The Socialist Response

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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri May 04, 2018 9:03 pm

.
Reasoned/astute comments, Elvis.

Elvis » Fri May 04, 2018 7:33 pm wrote:
peartreed wrote:We all need to de-personalize the mean rhetoric and ridicule against imagined rivals. It reads like a high school gossip column by pimple-popping prepubescents.

Yikes. Would you like to reconsider those two sentences? Unless you mean "pimple-popping prepubescents" as a compliment and not mean rhetoric.


Indeed.


Peartreed:
Yet the same bullies who berate both AD and SLAD for their prolific posts about fascism and Trump/Russia, respectively – not respectfully – badger on relentlessly. It is tiresome and predictable and petty in the extreme


I see only direct, legitimate questions being posed to AD. As Elvis pointed out, no one here is obligated to respond, but since when is it considered bullying to ask questions? Look back into the history of this forum. This forum's spirit is in discussion, discourse.

Historically, discussions here occasionally became heated. It's to be expected, given the nature of the human condition and the topics raised. These 'flare-ups' eventually dissipate on their own, or otherwise a Mod has to interfere and take action. Rinse and repeat.

In short, your comments are incongruous with activity throughout the history of this discussion board. That aside: if you have recent examples of "bullying" tactics please cite them. I see nothing of the sort. But I've purposely avoided this forum of late precisely due to this aversion towards discourse.

These pleas for sterile/non-interactive discourse speaks to a particular form of privilege enjoyed here in the U.S. The privilege of OBSERVING FROM AFAR, opining (largely by proxy, passively, in the form of pasted articles) in virtual environments, safely removed from real-world interactions and exposure, while LIVELIHOODS are directly impacted and LIVES are LOST due to the actions perpetrated by various brokers in positions of power.

These topics demand scrutiny. Questions should rightly be raised whenever warranted. It is a privilege, a luxury, to place questions on "ignore" while millions elsewhere are directly, adversely (at times, severely/mortally) impacted by the topics discussed here.

Carry on, however: continue to tend to your gardens.
Last edited by Belligerent Savant on Sat May 05, 2018 1:27 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby seemslikeadream » Fri May 04, 2018 9:05 pm

Rory » Fri May 04, 2018 8:02 pm wrote:
seemslikeadream » Fri May 04, 2018 4:59 pm wrote:it's a shame you can not gather context from deporting 400,000 immigrants


Sure I can. It's 400k people being deported. That's the beginning and the end of context right there. How that relates to this thread beats the hell out of me



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Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby Rory » Fri May 04, 2018 9:16 pm

seemslikeadream » Fri May 04, 2018 5:05 pm wrote:
Rory » Fri May 04, 2018 8:02 pm wrote:
seemslikeadream » Fri May 04, 2018 4:59 pm wrote:it's a shame you can not gather context from deporting 400,000 immigrants


Sure I can. It's 400k people being deported. That's the beginning and the end of context right there. How that relates to this thread beats the hell out of me



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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby American Dream » Fri May 04, 2018 10:56 pm

peartreed » Fri May 04, 2018 6:19 pm wrote:It has always been abundantly clear to me that AD and SLAD both usually source the articles, media and reporters behind the news items they copy and paste here. So do other members.

By posting an article or news item of interest to share does not automatically mean the person sharing that story here for discussion endorses its author’s view, angle, politics and personal perspective. They do not need to defend the content of the material posted as if it represents their own personal view, nor should they be coerced into arguing/defending its rationale and merits with clear antagonists...

I, for one, remain unconvinced of the source of the Syrian gas attacks, and I’m interested in all articles, pro-Assad, or pro-UKUS, or simply descriptive analysis of the factions fighting and their sponsorship, in order to sort it all out. I’m waiting for the Dutch lab results of chemical analysis and source.

That doesn’t mean I have to defend “UKUS neo-liberal warmongering propaganda” as a member of “The Socialist Alliance with AD” as Mac so ignorantly claims. Nor does AD.


I don't claim to know for sure what happened with each and every gassing. No "side" has their hands clean, as I understand it. I never talk to people in my daily life who demonize the White Helmets or repeat talking points from Sputnik. I just don't hang out with people like that and my concerns are much more with the bigger issues.

I do hang out with people who would ask how we can help refugees- both with Islamophobia and also with basic solidarity, who wonder what's wrong with the Workers' World stalinoids supporting a red-brown alliance, who want to be internationalists not trumpy nationalists, who see Russia as a reactionary chauvinist regime and the U.S. no better, who support no torture state anywhere. Et cetera.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby peartreed » Sat May 05, 2018 5:07 am

Elvis, since you took personal offense at my last message I wanted to emphasize it was not directed at you, nor was it about you in particular. It was my reaction to a pattern of bullying, badgering and baiting both AD and SLAD here by harassment.

Rory’s immediate reply to my post illustrates what I was referring to. It’s the personal attack and antagonism with adolescent overtones of some sick plot by a gang of bullies. That is what I also see as the relentless circling of AD and SLAD by attack dogs looking for weak or vulnerable open points to bite into and draw personal blood (hurt), for sport.

Your response, by contrast, attempts reason. But to make your argument you first quote, then misread and misinterpret my straightforward message in order to distort it, and then argue that distortion. For example, you think I’m against discussion on a discussion board just because I said I value reading articles, etc.

I could dissect your post just as you did mine and then make a straw man from the pieces as a foil to swordfight with, but that is a fundamentally dishonest and unfair tactic that fools no-one with discernment skills.

It’s no wonder AD is averse to engage in argument with you through your lens of distortion. He is not cowardly “running away” - he is being selective for safe social intercourse. It's like using protection strategically. Usually he is also too busy posting informative information to share.

As to the content of his posts quoting others, the only prohibition here is banning things like porn or abusive subject matter designed to recruit or inflame radical extremist response. AD and SLAD don’t cross that line either. They post news.

But the most off-putting and tedious tactic now all too evident on RI is bullying. I recognize several of the offenders from another forum, recently closed, that also featured a section criticizing RI and discussing plans for its disruption, and particularly targeting AD and SLAD and Jerky and others here for gang attacks.

I see that underway now by the low-lives who are here simply to wreak havoc.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat May 05, 2018 5:12 am

placeholders
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby Rory » Sat May 05, 2018 8:41 am

peartreed » Sat May 05, 2018 1:07 am wrote:Elvis, since you took personal offense at my last message I wanted to emphasize it was not directed at you, nor was it about you in particular. It was my reaction to a pattern of bullying, badgering and baiting both AD and SLAD here by harassment.

Rory’s immediate reply to my post illustrates what I was referring to. It’s the personal attack and antagonism with adolescent overtones of some sick plot by a gang of bullies. That is what I also see as the relentless circling of AD and SLAD by attack dogs looking for weak or vulnerable open points to bite into and draw personal blood (hurt), for sport.

Your response, by contrast, attempts reason. But to make your argument you first quote, then misread and misinterpret my straightforward message in order to distort it, and then argue that distortion. For example, you think I’m against discussion on a discussion board just because I said I value reading articles, etc.

I could dissect your post just as you did mine and then make a straw man from the pieces as a foil to swordfight with, but that is a fundamentally dishonest and unfair tactic that fools no-one with discernment skills.

It’s no wonder AD is averse to engage in argument with you through your lens of distortion. He is not cowardly “running away” - he is being selective for safe social intercourse. It's like using protection strategically. Usually he is also too busy posting informative information to share.

As to the content of his posts quoting others, the only prohibition here is banning things like porn or abusive subject matter designed to recruit or inflame radical extremist response. AD and SLAD don’t cross that line either. They post news.

But the most off-putting and tedious tactic now all too evident on RI is bullying. I recognize several of the offenders from another forum, recently closed, that also featured a section criticizing RI and discussing plans for its disruption, and particularly targeting AD and SLAD and Jerky and others here for gang attacks.

I see that underway now by the low-lives who are here simply to wreak havoc.


Nothing to add except you're an abusive, persistent, flame baiting troll.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat May 05, 2018 9:21 am

damn already been reported and I wanted to be the one...so disappointing


true colors come shining through

and now it is clear as a bell why using one's own words is not the bone of contention and why members choose to ignore you and I had such high hopes of rekindling our love








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Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
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Don’t forget that.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat May 05, 2018 9:49 am

peartreed » Sat May 05, 2018 4:07 am wrote:Elvis, since you took personal offense at my last message I wanted to emphasize it was not directed at you, nor was it about you in particular. It was my reaction to a pattern of bullying, badgering and baiting both AD and SLAD here by harassment.

.


No. Repeating these canards does not make them true. The last few posts directed to AD were legitimate questions posed, nothing more. You have now distracted attention away from those questions by repeating these misleading refrains.

peartreed » Sat May 05, 2018 4:07 am wrote:Rory’s immediate reply to my post illustrates what I was referring to..


Rory's response was posted after yours. You initiated (and repeated) these claims of "bullying" on page 15 of this thread, specifically referencing AD and SLAD as the 'victims'.

Once again -- questions were posed to AD. AD replied, repeating his mantra: he refuses to respond to those on his 'ignore' list, which of course he is entitled to do. You then chime in, as you do, with your typical accusations, derailing this thread. Questions remain un-answered (and they will never be answered, of course).

I will type no more on this. It's a recurring pattern destined to repeat itself so long as this forum's lights remain on.

The core issue here is that AD clearly cares not to field inquiries into his purported beliefs/positions -- quite to the contrary, his interests are only in disseminating 'information' (most often in the form of Imperialist Propaganda) on this board, repeatedly, at a phenomenal clip.

Questions posed that challenge these positions are left unanswered.

This M.O. is conducted within forum rules (AD is careful to apply his tactics within forum rules, of course. He's no amateur), and as such will continue, as it has for years.

Only the shuttering of this forum will stop it. And then AD will simply move on to find his next target.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby Sounder » Sat May 05, 2018 9:56 am

Rory’s immediate reply to my post illustrates what I was referring to. It’s the personal attack and antagonism with adolescent overtones of some sick plot by a gang of bullies. That is what I also see as the relentless circling of AD and SLAD by attack dogs looking for weak or vulnerable open points to bite into and draw personal blood (hurt), for sport.


But Rory is right, RI has always been a fairly rough place. Still we are not a 'gang of bullies' and some might object also to being called attack dogs that bite into and draw personal blood (hurt), for sport.

Things get messy sometimes because we are trying to discern between indoctrination and information and naturally there are differing viewpoints as to where that boundary is.

Anyway it's good to have AD and SLAD posting as they provide opportunity for folk to develop discrimination so they might see distinctions between high sounding principles and the actual effects of their implementation.

As to the Socialist Response, Dr. Evil is right; people have to tell the hard-leftists to fuck-off.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby Elvis » Sat May 05, 2018 2:34 pm

peartreed wrote:For example, you think I’m against discussion on a discussion board just because I said I value reading articles, etc.


Thanks for the detailed reply. But I got the idea that you don't care for discussion because you've repeatedly characterized discussion and counterpoint of AD's articles as badgering, antagonism etc.

As I mentioned previously, if you don't want your posts discussed here—if you simply find challenges to your views unacceptable—don't post here!

If AD wants only to talk with "like-minded individuals" that's okay, but while echo chambers are comforting and offer continuous affirmative feedback, they're not intellectually stimulating, they limit vision and only serve to reinforce one's existing views.

I'm kind of "done" talking about AD but I'll continue to post responses as I see fit—after all, he's got a lot of lines in the water—I'll do my best to be polite, and sorry if anyone is offended.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby peartreed » Sat May 05, 2018 2:46 pm

Again, it isn't the discussion of content and counterpoint I object to, it's the PERSONAL derision and rancour about AD and SLAD. Challenges about content keep the discussion lively and informative. And an echo chamber of like-minded ideas would be dull and boring, but a tag team attack strategy of taking turns insulting and demeaning the person posting is immaturity and sadism in action. Character assassination sucks.

I'm glad you're done talking about AD but I hope you continue contesting the CONTENT of controversial commentary and posts, like his, as that's fun and informative. The same applies to all other posts. Just avoid picking on the person posting simply for scoring mean points.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sat May 05, 2018 3:01 pm

These accusations of "bullying" are complete and utter bullshit, as anyone can see, and it's always the worst abusers of this board (and the worst wasters of its' members' time) who keep bringing up that bullshit complaint again and again and again. It's nauseating. Stop whingeing. You are adults. No one has stolen your lunchbox or given you a chinese burn. What people have done is to respond to posts you posted on a Discussion Board.

Belligerent Savant got it precisely right upthread: There is a horrible subsection of whiners on this board (precisely two of them, plus one hanger-on) who regard every disagreement as a personal affront and every actual refutation as an act of unpardonable lese-majeste. It's very American, and it's tres 2018, that attititude of arrogant entitlement, that rage at being challenged, questioned, or (horror of horrors) actually laughed at. How very dare we? Who do we think we are? Weep pitesously, then send in the Marines. It's the American Way.

This thread is called "The Socialist Alternative", not "The Fragile Feelings of Americans", so let us remember Karl Marx, who was born 200 years ago today, and let us consider how tat witty and embattled man would have responded to the bullshit complaints of "bullying" so typical of this board since the reign of King Wombat.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby Elvis » Sat May 05, 2018 3:23 pm

peartreed wrote:a tag team attack strategy of taking turns insulting and demeaning


Do you honestly believe this is occurring — a tag team strategy?

That could be a major source of misunderstanding.

I'm glad to hear that you hope the fun and informative contesting of controversial commentary and posts will continue. It'd be cool if the poster of the controversial commentary and posts felt the same, but he's stated plainly that he prefers an unquestioning audience for his message. He finds the contesting of controversial commentary to be unhealthy. I don't understand that, but there are lots of psychological reasons why people are withdrawn or shun interaction, so I'll grant "safe space" for that. Meanwhile, I'm here to learn and discuss what I learn with others.
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Re: The Socialist Response

Postby peartreed » Sat May 05, 2018 3:34 pm

Mac, I’m surprised you took so long this time before joining the tag team attack.

Your dislike and derision of Americans is as revealing of your feelings as the reverent references to Karl Marx. Thank you for the self-profiling portrait.

Just in passing, you are mistaken in assuming I’m American. I’m Canadian. And the stereotyping of entitled and sensitive Americans couldn’t be further from the truth.

My ancestry is recent British and European, just like many U.S. citizens who share similar cultural roots. That’s why I followed the UK forum and its members that I mentioned, who shared the common bond of resentment and rivalry about RI.

I also live part of the year in the U.S.A. and sincerely admire most of the people. I’m embarrassed by the kind of intolerance and stereotyping by nationality that you espouse. It is the most ignorant kind of cultural condemnation and bias that is commonly found at the root of venal racism and tribal wars since time began.

My relatives in the UK refer to those spewing such hate as Brit Twits. There are similar simpletons on every continent. It is just a shame that it manifests here.

Elvis - if you had read the Altered Minds Forum in the UK before it closed May 1st, you would understand my tag team references here.
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