Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy attack

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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed May 09, 2018 2:08 pm

oh ffs
There sawe I fyrst the derke ymagynyng
Of felony [...]
The pyckpurse and eke the pale drede,
The smyler, with the knyfe under the cloke.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby Burnt Hill » Wed May 09, 2018 2:13 pm

You left this out Mac - :ohno:
Thanks for reminding me of your opposition to collaborative discussion!
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed May 09, 2018 2:14 pm

smiths

i think posting about being 'the first to post' and therefore claiming the 'right' to define a story is against the spirit of community, reporting, history, and the search for answers in a complex and warped world


Alright one more point and then I am done with this unless the campaign to change my title does not stop

A title does NOT define an on going story ....every story changes over time I already gave you examples of that

I respectfully disagree with your premise ...there is NOT consensus in the whole community here..... you are wrong including everyone in this community you speak of and I take it as an insult that you make up a premiss and accuse me of not having the spirit of the community after not participating in this community for over a year how would you know who to include in that community...how would you know what everyone thinks here....why would you think everyone agrees with Mac? Where has your spirit of community been for a year? Do you really think you should be accusing me of lacking spirit when I have been here posting for that year that you were not participating

I just got done with polling the "community" that I associate with here to see their opinion on changing the thread title

since there are probably 25 to 30 people posting here and Mac and crew which comprises about 4 -5 members who want the title changed I have gotten back 6 responses so far that do not want it changed so your conclusion is wrong ...the community here is not one voice ....not monolithic .....not the voice of Mac

so at the present time there are 7 members that do not want it changed......but you know what we have never done thread titles here by a vote of who is right and who is wrong everyone is entitled to their opinion and their own thread titles


no one knows the truth of this poisoning yet
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby Rory » Wed May 09, 2018 2:55 pm

Belligerent Savant » Wed May 09, 2018 8:05 am wrote:.
Indeed -- the seemingly coordinated messaging across MSM outlets is striking, though not nearly as surprising as it may have been some years ago.

They operate as a single organism at this point -- in concert with whatever 'guidance' is handed down by the Coalition of Imperial States.



I'm not sure where and what, exactly the inflection point was (2014: Crimea, maybe? I've also seen 2008:Georgia/Putin's speach at the UN cited), but there was a message (overtly or implied) send to all western media - they move in lock step unison on certain geopolitical topics, 'Russia' being one of the more obvious.

What's interesting to me is how easily led many people have become. There's widespread cognitive dissonance whereby each new event is anticipated as falling into a preset pattern of Russian duplicity and lies, and heavy overtones of sinister Slavic traits and historical wrongdoing.

As regards this case - in all likelyhood, Julia and Sergi will never be seen or heard from again. Julia is too much of a reputation risk to be let go now - she'll die in effective custody. To all intents and purposes they may as well be dead. And given the empire's butchers apron past (and present love of austerity), perhaps that's what happened to them.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby Burnt Hill » Wed May 09, 2018 3:13 pm

Rory wrote:As regards this case - in all likelyhood, Julia and Sergi will never be seen or heard from again. Julia is too much of a reputation risk to be let go now - she'll die in effective custody. To all intents and purposes they may as well be dead. And given the empire's butchers apron past (and present love of austerity), perhaps that's what happened to them.


Maybe, we will see.
Of course it is a different situation, but we feared the same of Noor Salman.
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This one, Burnt Hill, Could be Changed By poster

Postby Iamwhomiam » Wed May 09, 2018 3:41 pm

Burnt Hill, I believe this is the alternative slad suggested, but different, of course, than mine above.
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That is correct, I think!

Postby Burnt Hill » Wed May 09, 2018 3:49 pm

Iamwhomiam wrote:Burnt Hill, I believe this is the alternative slad suggested, but different, of course, than mine above.


:sun:
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby alloneword » Wed May 09, 2018 4:39 pm

MacCruiskeen » Wed May 09, 2018 3:21 pm wrote:The UK media also went completely silent about the Skripal Affair, suddenly, as of one, weeks ago...


But not their Russian 'counterparts'... (a good summary of the current state of affairs):

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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby Elvis » Wed May 09, 2018 9:17 pm

alloneword » Wed May 09, 2018 1:39 pm wrote:
MacCruiskeen » Wed May 09, 2018 3:21 pm wrote:The UK media also went completely silent about the Skripal Affair, suddenly, as of one, weeks ago...


But not their Russian 'counterparts'... (a good summary of the current state of affairs):



Thanks, interesting to see Russian news coverage of this. I watched for disengenuous interpretations of what's known about the affair, and didn't really see it, but I did learn some things not reported on The Beeb.

Since much of this is about the news media itself, I thought it interesting when on old friend recently visited. He's always been aware of 'deep politics' and is highly empathetic, but as long as I've known him he's leaned conservative on some issues. So I was surprised when he mentioned he'd been watching a lot of RT, and said, "I have to say, I think RT is more objective than the American news."

When it comes to Ukraine, Syria, and indeed Skripal, I think he's right, we're getting a straighter and fuller story.
"Frankly, I don't think it's a good idea but the sums proposed are enormous."
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby Burnt Hill » Wed May 09, 2018 10:01 pm

Compare one specific news source (RT) to the entirety of american media, and you could come up with any analogy you want.
The question should be whether RT is more objective than any other
specific american media. And that answer is no.
Also it would just plain be silly to not understand it is propaganda too, even when it is correct, just as the best of american media is.
I will add that it is perfectly fine if you prefer your news with a moskal flair, that is fine with me.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby smiths » Wed May 09, 2018 10:09 pm

seemslikeadream » 10 May 2018 01:14 wrote:
A title does NOT define an on going story ....every story changes over time I already gave you examples of that

you are wrong including everyone in this community you speak of and I take it as an insult that you make up a premiss and accuse me of not having the spirit of the community after not participating in this community for over a year how would you know who to include in that community...how would you know what everyone thinks here

since there are probably 25 to 30 people posting here and Mac and crew which comprises about 4 -5 members who want the title changed I have gotten back 6 responses so far that do not want it changed so your conclusion is wrong ...the community here is not one voice ....not monolithic .....not the voice of Mac

so at the present time there are 7 members that do not want it changed......but you know what we have never done thread titles here by a vote of who is right and who is wrong everyone is entitled to their opinion and their own thread titles


The community that exists here, historically, has been 'mostly' interested in seeking truth

The community was energized in the pursuit of truth by the ability the internet gave everyone to seek alternative, non-establishment news sources and opinions

If a thread title is parroting establishment propaganda and the thread consists of establishment news sources and anyone that questions that gets attacked, then that's not in the spirit of truth and RI

I dont give a shit about petty rivalries and groups that exist here, i find the personalizing of the stories tiresome

i care about accuracy and the pursuit of truth

stick to your thread title if you want, but it is misinformation pure and simple, and your dogged insistence on keeping it tells its own story

I have been reading an contributing to this forum for 13 years, so my right to make an assessment or a suggestion is rock solid
the question is why, who, why, what, why, when, why and why again?
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby Belligerent Savant » Wed May 09, 2018 10:27 pm

.
Bravo, smiths.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby Elvis » Wed May 09, 2018 11:30 pm

Burnt Hill » Wed May 09, 2018 7:01 pm wrote:Compare one specific news source (RT) to the entirety of american media, and you could come up with any analogy you want.
The question should be whether RT is more objective than any other
specific american media. And that answer is no.
Also it would just plain be silly to not understand it is propaganda too, even when it is correct, just as the best of american media is.
I will add that it is perfectly fine if you prefer your news with a moskal flair, that is fine with me.


To make myself more clear, in this context "American news" means major U.S. networks and news channels: ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, FOX, MSNBC; it doesn't mean Democracy Now! or Infowars or Free Speech Radio.

I limited my assessment of RT to Ukraine, Syria and Skripal, I didn't crown RT as the sterling cryer of truth and first exponent of objectivity (fer cryin out loud).

I hardly see any TV news, what I do see is on YouTube, usually something linked here, then I might follow related videos and see more "news." I do find Russian news interesting. Back when it was first carried on U.S. cable, I made it a point to watch the Moscow nightly news (what was that called?); I think it was in the 1980s. I remember their video imagery was kind of flat, technologically 'behind'; they've come a long way.


On the first day of Propaganda class (in high school!) Mrs. D explained that propaganda doesn't necessarily mean disinformation, and can be perfectly truthful and work for everyone's good, so I've had that lesson.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu May 10, 2018 12:01 am

seeking the truth by changing the truth of the title when it was posted ........yea that will work

you want to hide and get rid of the truth of the title of this thread when it was posted


that does not seek the truth it changes facts at the time

I seek the truth and I don't change facts sorry that you find the only way to the truth is by changing the truth of the title

smiths says I must get rid of the truth of the title by changing the title sounds really weird to me

according to smiths I must change the history of this thread by changing it to fit his needs

that is definitely hiding the truth not looking for it ....I don't see how that makes you a truth seeker that makes you a truth hider

I am not changing the history of this thread for you or anyone....and I have 10 members that agree with me .... this is not a fact that can be voted on ...I am staying with the truth and not change or hide it for anyone

it might be your way but it is not mine ....you are not going to shame me and accuse me because I will not do what you what this is not a choice for you or anyone here to make

I am going to leave it and 10 members are in agreement with me on that so there it is....your suggestion is lying and covering up the original title and mine choice is to leave it as it was

smiths » Wed May 09, 2018 9:09 pm wrote:
seemslikeadream » 10 May 2018 01:14 wrote:
A title does NOT define an on going story ....every story changes over time I already gave you examples of that

you are wrong including everyone in this community you speak of and I take it as an insult that you make up a premiss and accuse me of not having the spirit of the community after not participating in this community for over a year how would you know who to include in that community...how would you know what everyone thinks here

since there are probably 25 to 30 people posting here and Mac and crew which comprises about 4 -5 members who want the title changed I have gotten back 6 responses so far that do not want it changed so your conclusion is wrong ...the community here is not one voice ....not monolithic .....not the voice of Mac

so at the present time there are 7 members that do not want it changed......but you know what we have never done thread titles here by a vote of who is right and who is wrong everyone is entitled to their opinion and their own thread titles


The community that exists here, historically, has been 'mostly' interested in seeking truth

The community was energized in the pursuit of truth by the ability the internet gave everyone to seek alternative, non-establishment news sources and opinions

If a thread title is parroting establishment propaganda and the thread consists of establishment news sources and anyone that questions that gets attacked, then that's not in the spirit of truth and RI

I dont give a shit about petty rivalries and groups that exist here, i find the personalizing of the stories tiresome

i care about accuracy and the pursuit of truth

stick to your thread title if you want, but it is misinformation pure and simple, and your dogged insistence on keeping it tells its own story

I have been reading an contributing to this forum for 13 years, so my right to make an assessment or a suggestion is rock solid
Last edited by seemslikeadream on Thu May 10, 2018 12:12 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Skripal: Theresa May set to hit back Russia over spy att

Postby Burnt Hill » Thu May 10, 2018 12:04 am

My argument was more for your old friend really.

Elvis wrote:To make myself more clear, in this context "American news" means major U.S. networks and news channels: ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, FOX, MSNBC; it doesn't mean Democracy Now! or Infowars or Free Speech Radio.


Yes, except that RT does not fall in with big 5 you list.
It is more like the sites that you are not putting it in with.
It is not mass media designed for corporate america.
It is expressly designed to make an american feel as you and your friend do(es).
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