Whither the Democrats?

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Re: Whither the Democrats?

Postby dada » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:33 am

Nice spin, turning it around on the non-voter. Kind of like blaming the victim.

But don't blame the non-voter, just blame me. Because it's nobody's fault but mine.

Blaming the non-voter probably won't work as a political strategically, though. I don't think it will get you any votes.
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Re: Whither the Democrats?

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:44 am

it is not spin it is reality

100 million ...REALITY

but you have no worries so you do not vote..I can see that

yea I am blaming the people that do not vote...maybe they should have voted in the primaries
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Re: Whither the Democrats?

Postby dada » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:51 am

Ah, truth and truthiness, the question of the hour. What are the facts, and what is the truth. And it's a cosmic struggle, with the future hanging in the balance. The future is for who knows the difference.

Hey, I vote sometimes. That's my goddess given right.

George Carlin said If you vote, you have no right to complain.

I always liked that one.
Last edited by dada on Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Whither the Democrats?

Postby Grizzly » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:36 pm

Both parties are corrupted: EVIL VS LESS EVIL.... I vote my conscience and neither parties have visionaries nor statesmen, hell we don't even have diplomats any more. We have war mongers. The State department is a propagenda arm of Murder Inc. And there WILL NEVER BE ANY CHANGE FOR THE GOOD as long as we have the WAR party. But keep pretending if it makes one feel better. Keep that illusion going...

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Re: Whither the Democrats?

Postby Elvis » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:10 pm

I realized I hadn't kept up on the new DNC leadership. The new chairman, Tom Perez, seems "okay" as these things go, should be a major improvement over Wasserman-Schultz. A cursory check shows nothing unusual.

Perez won the position by a small enough margin (235 to 200) that he magnanimously proposed recreating the position of Deputy Chairman in order to give a seat to his rival—Keith Ellison.

One thing about Ellison did stand out to me:

"It's almost like the Reichstag fire, kind of reminds me of that. After the Reichstag was burned, they blamed the Communists for it and it put the leader of that country, Hitler, in a position where he could basically have authority to do whatever he wanted. The fact is that I'm not saying September 11 was a U.S. plan or anything like that because, you know, that's how they put you in the nut-ball box — dismiss you."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Ellison#Reichstag_fire_and_9/11


He's not saying. Is the DNC Deputy Chairman hip to LIHOP/MIHOP? — a "truther" if you will?


Then the abuse allegations appeared and Vox "explains"...

Why the media has been reluctant to assert whether new claims of domestic violence are credible.

The charge---the accuser---does seem a little dodgy. Some say she's waiting 'til the election to "find" the damning file video she says she lost (among other excuses for not providing it).

I wonder if Ellison's 9/11 musings and the abuse accusations could possibly be related. On the other hand, maybe Ellison is just another asshole. The play-out should at least be interesting.

Did I mention Ellison is Muslim? The first Muslim elected to the U.S. Congress.
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Re: Whither the Democrats?

Postby PufPuf93 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:12 pm

Trump and his cronies are a symptom of multiple things that are wrong with the Democratic Party.

This is not to say that Trump and GOP are not corrupt and Trump despicably horrid, but that in fair and open elections based upon issues to improve the circumstances of Americans (and the World), liberal Democrats would be winning elections easily.
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Re: Whither the Democrats?

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:48 am

dada » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:38 am wrote:Something Chomsky said, that if you can't explain a concept in a clear, concise way, like explaining it to a ten year old in five minutes, there may be something wrong with the concept. Something like that. I think you get the point.


I'm not autistic, just insufferable: that wasn't Chomsky, but you deserve serious props for not attributing it to Einstein, or, for that matter, Richard Feynman. "An alleged scientific discovery has no merit unless it can be explained to a barmaid," some Brit toffer said. He was quoted in a book on Einstein and now that quote has undergone some truly impressive mutations in the wild.

Either way, I don't think you'll find many people less interested in the implications of Quantum mechanics than SLAD.

As a side note, I'm not trying to flag this for the moderators or anything, but: we've had a ban on Star Wars metaphors in effect here since Bush was still President. Just tuck that away for future reference.
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Re: Whither the Democrats?

Postby dada » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:59 pm

Well if the strategy is electing democrats, I don't see any evidence for it. The tactics being employed don't seem to lead anywhere near that strategy.

---

So we have an accurate, multi-tiered analysis, and things are looking more hopeless than ever. The enemy is revealed as competing international intelligence agencies and their deep pockets. How to compete with that? Lazy American intel, grown slow and fat in their hubris, is the least of it. Kremlin strategy is in your face, masterminded by an artist, and the Ministry is everywhere and nowhere, like a zenny mist over everything. How does one fight this?

I'd ask what really made communism collapse. Was it the American way? I don't think so. What was underneath the rock n roll and blue jeans, kids smuggling Zappa records at great personal risk to listen to in damp basements. It's nonconformity. The best weapon we have left. Not to 'save America,' 'American way, rising to the top again,' do we really want that? I don't. It isn't the literal commodities that knocked down the wall, and it won't be good old American rock n roll that knocks down the Chinese-American wall of cash money, or hoists Surkov on his own petard.

Weaponizing cultural debris can be an effective strategy however, although I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket. Taking the mundane consumer junk, re-purposing it with fresh meaning is weaponizing it. Then send it off and forget about it. Stand at the end of the lane, watch the machine set up the pins. A well-placed, weaponized Don Knotts will bowl a strike every time. Even a weaponized Bob Newhart will work in a pinch.

edited to add: My cat caught a mouse just last night. He rocks.
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Re: Whither the Democrats?

Postby Elvis » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:29 pm

Some off-topic posts have been deleted, slight discontinuity may result.
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Re: Whither the Democrats?

Postby dada » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:01 pm

Where did you move them. Or did you just delete them?

You know, Elvis, I'm actually a human being, not a chat bot. I have feelings, and you just hurt me deeply by forgetting that. There was some good stuff in there, stuff I put effort and energy into composing. I doubt I could recreate it, just like that.

I mean, whatever. If you don't like me that much, why not just ban me and have done with it?

Just a suggestion: maybe check with your co-mod before jumping the gun on subjective matters like 'on topic/off topic.' Opinions may vary.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: Whither the Democrats?

Postby NeonLX » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:56 pm

dada » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:59 pm wrote:Weaponizing cultural debris can be an effective strategy however, although I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket. Taking the mundane consumer junk, re-purposing it with fresh meaning is weaponizing it. Then send it off and forget about it. Stand at the end of the lane, watch the machine set up the pins. A well-placed, weaponized Don Knotts will bowl a strike every time. Even a weaponized Bob Newhart will work in a pinch.

edited to add: My cat caught a mouse just last night. He rocks.


Now that made me laugh 'til I cried. It surely did. "Weaponized Don Knotts." The implications are sobering. If I were a drinker, anyway.
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Re: Whither the Democrats?

Postby 82_28 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:53 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:48 am wrote:
dada » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:38 am wrote:Something Chomsky said, that if you can't explain a concept in a clear, concise way, like explaining it to a ten year old in five minutes, there may be something wrong with the concept. Something like that. I think you get the point.


I'm not autistic, just insufferable: that wasn't Chomsky, but you deserve serious props for not attributing it to Einstein, or, for that matter, Richard Feynman. "An alleged scientific discovery has no merit unless it can be explained to a barmaid," some Brit toffer said. He was quoted in a book on Einstein and now that quote has undergone some truly impressive mutations in the wild.

Either way, I don't think you'll find many people less interested in the implications of Quantum mechanics than SLAD.

As a side note, I'm not trying to flag this for the moderators or anything, but: we've had a ban on Star Wars metaphors in effect here since Bush was still President. Just tuck that away for future reference.


So I shouldn't have a "bad feeling about this"? Jesus.
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Re: Whither the Democrats?

Postby dada » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:10 pm

haha! That's right. Weaponized Don Knotts. Don't know where the hell that came from. Just jumped right out of my fingers unexpectedly.

---

Nah I'm just kidding around 82. My old trip, fighting with star wars. Can be fun sometimes. But I got no bad feelings for the Star Wars anymores. I went through that phase, and came out of it. My mom watched the new ones and really liked them. Maybe I'll get around to checking them out one of these days. I take mom's recommendations seriously, she doesn't just say she likes something lightly.

I was complaining about Star Wars to a friend one time, just having fun critiquing it. He said, "You know you don't like it so much now because you were so into it as a kid."

And he was right.

---

I recovered the lost posts. Wasn't easy. I'll put them up later somewhere, you can tell me where, or I'll find a spot in the lounge or the Questioning Consciousness thread or something.

Some real tech grunt work, there. I need a shower. Back later. Cheers.

ps, if you're going to delete this post, please move it somewhere or give me fair warning! Maybe create a "Elvis' off-topic posts" thread or something Might be fun, random posts that didn't make the cut all in one place.
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Re: Whither the Democrats?

Postby Elvis » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:39 am

dada wrote:Where did you move them. Or did you just delete them?

You know, Elvis, I'm actually a human being, not a chat bot. I have feelings, and you just hurt me deeply by forgetting that. There was some good stuff in there, stuff I put effort and energy into composing. I doubt I could recreate it, just like that.


I agree my deletions were rash, and dada, I regret that some of your posts were caught in the crossfire, so to speak; in removing the off-topic big Trump/Manafort splash, some replies went with them. If you've recovered them, I won't object to you re-posting them, in fact you sort of have a theme ('futility of party politics'?) going, why not start a thread with them. The Trump/Manafort etc, stuff is already posted elsewhere, and we all "get" that Trump is a problem.

I did ask nicely for the thread stay on topic and again later not be about Trump. I asked, "Could this not be a Trump thread?" and the reply I got was like, "oh so we're not supposed to talk about elections." Where did "elections" come from? How do you respond to something you didn't say?—and is actually the reverse of what you said? (Because obviously, the thread is all about elections, and the goddamned Democrats who are/will be running for office.) I deleted that exchange because it added nothing to the thread

I started this thread as a kind of a focused subtopic of The Socialist Response thread, which got massively disrupted/derailed (I stupidly got sucked into that myself). Silly me, I was hoping that woudn't happen here.

There are a hundred reasons for the "why bother/doesn't matter/all effort is pointless" attitude, and I "get" that, too. And for some with very narrow ideological perspectives, no credible presidential candidate will ever do, will ever be good enough or pure enough, and they essentially reject the entire process and wait around for election day when they might or might not vote, depending on how futile or distasteful it seems at the time. To those 'big picture' thinkers, Jerky summed up a good response:

Jerky » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:49 am wrote:Anything else at this current historical moment is an insanely irresponsible pipe dream. It's far easier to push for the kinds of reforms I know you both desire from a center/left-liberal, far more small-d-democratically responsive ruling party than it is from a nativist, reactionary party that has literally regressed so far, they don't just want to dismantle what shreds remain of the Great Society, or even the New Deal, but also the very concept of democratic influence over the state's direction. They've literally reverted to being 'conservative' in the late 19th century meaning of the term, now.

J.


For others the thread topic may be uncomfortable because it begs the question, did the Democrats fuck up in 2016? That might suggest that Trump and the GOP and Russia are not 100% the responsible parties. I greatly appreciated this way of putting it (bolding mine):

Wombaticus Rex » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:40 am wrote:I would agree that in general, there is no small degree of shared responsibility betwixt the winners and losers of an election. Presumably both teams did their best work, while being battered by twenty-four months of news cycle noise and random events.

However, when you lose an election to Donald Trump, I think the self-recrimination is hardly out of line. (I also think most observers would concede that Clinton lost the White House more than Trump won it. Even the popular vote / electoral college facts only highlight the fact 2016 was blown, and by the width of a fingernail, too.)

Christ, James Comey probably did more damage to Hillary Clinton's campaign than the Trump team did, and he's hailed as a #Resistance icon.

Sorry to keep steering this thread back to comedy, but these are the times we live in, I suppose.

The Democrats not only should have closed that narrow gap, they should have kicked Donald Trump's ass. (Ideally with a Bernie Sanders ticket, of course.)


dada—given your evident eschewal of electoral politics, I wonder why you persist, especially when...
dada » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:42 pm wrote:Uh... I guess I should say something about the democrats. But I got nothing.


On the other hand you mention this:
dada » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:01 pm wrote:This stuff is important, currently. The Democrats are doubling down on cutting off their base. That's the point of this thread, to me.

I'm inspired to ask, who comprises their base? And are they cutting it off intentionally or unwittingly?


My mother is in the ICU, it's not looking good, so I'll be scarce for a couple of days. I mention that because we're looking at long-term care facilities and not sure yet what the cost will be, but the current slash & burn of social programs is not going to help. And it'll only get worse UNLESS AND UNTIL THE GODDAMNED DEMOCRATS GET THEIR SHIT TOGETHER. Robert Mueller is not going to save us.

Even this can change—
Belligerent Savant » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:00 pm wrote:That aside, healthcare benefits for those employed in the U.S. has gotten more expensive/less comprehensive over the last 10 or so years, irrespective of political party in the White House or holder of majority seats.
Pharma lobbies have strangleholds across both parties (among other factors).




The first 50 seconds of this are funny:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2Wx2d3v_so
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Re: Whither the Democrats?

Postby Elvis » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:47 am

This is good—more about it later—


Senator Bernie Sanders: 'President Donald Trump Has Got To Be Defeated'


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR2xA4xn9Ng
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