Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby BenDhyan » Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:51 pm

Agent Orange Cooper » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:19 am wrote:Will we ever get an answer as to why AD was unbanned and Elvis resigned?


Yes, so long as members keep the pressure on 82_28 to come clean...
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby elfismiles » Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:56 pm

I'm still catching up ... but, for posterity:

Re: American Dream: Supporter of Ukrainian fascism on RI
Postby Elvis » 22 Dec 2018 00:20
viewtopic.php?p=667807#p667807

I am shocked—shocked I say!—to come back and find arguing going on here!

Round up the usual suspects.
This is perhaps one of those threads that needed to happen. I'll try to make this brief.


- Because the thread was conceived as a provocation, reactionary retorts will stand, but with a request/warning to SLAD to end the old "kill yourself" controversy; with sophistry detected on both sides, JackRiddler has explained himself sufficiently. (Also see: ["kill yourselves" +diogenes])

- Jack's thesis here is, in my opinion, essentially correct, but Jack will get a one-week suspension for directing profanity at another member.

- AmericanDream is suspended for one year. This forced sabbatical is not lightly given, nor is it by any means solely a result of the arguments given by Jack and others here. For all the reasons cited in this thread, and by so many other members over many years now, AD's banishment has been on the table since long before I became a moderater. This fact was volunteered to me in my "orientation" so it is not just the wish or view of a few noisy, partisan posters, but rather a recurring, strongly expressed theme among a broad range of longtime members and moderators, and the natural consequence of AD's habitual trollery.

- Thread locked.


Vicarious Solstice Problems @ RI
post by 82_28 » 25 Dec 2018 19:18
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=41484

82_28 » 25 Dec 2018 19:18 wrote:I must admit and apologize for not being here for quite a bit. I will divulge, just to get this part out of the way that I sorta lost the love of my life of about 30 years. I fucked the fuck up. But she lives far away and moved here and then moved back. I have been extremely depressed. I have not been able to really log in at all. So now that you know all that. Can I ask you guys a favor, since apparently I am the only "mod" around now? Get the fuck along? You share the same fucking planet. Observe the same holidays whether you want to or not. But we are not enemies.

The reason I am writing this is that I was reached out to by members by other means asking me "what the fuck is going on here". I still don't know completely. I grasp the problems, but I didn't see them go down.

About 10-12 years ago I signed up to start posting here after being a long time reader/lurker. The reason I did so was actually because of a deep abiding depression and this site came through for me. It really did. You guys did. I may swear and shit all the time, but it was never pointed. I have always appreciated what everyone had to say. No one should be singled out. Trolled. Flamed. If you use the word "fuck" a lot you are just using it.

Personally many of us, as I have, met many people from this site. Should the apocalypse happen tomorrow, we know that there are good souls upon the Earth. Should we find them, we would take care of one another.

That really is the name of the "game" -- to be one and all and all for one etc. There have been some characters on this forum who totally pissed me off. I got some flat earther yoinked for instance. I didn't think Hugh Manatee should have been. But I am full on hands off. Everyone is a functioning adult. Perhaps it is because RI is so contained now. Perhaps it is dying, but some are already dying on their own and we do not need to have Ri exacerbate the negative feelings we all feel alike.

It is a place to read, write, discuss and bounce ideas off one another. It is not a pulpit or judge's bench. It's just Rigorous Intuition.

I am going to delve into what has happened in my absence and see what changes were made. As a human, I am not sure what to do with what has gone on and I am not a boss of anyone. Yes. This entity "82_28" can flick a button, but I won't do so. Give me a bit to see what has happened. Fairness is the only thing that I care about.

Merry Christmas. . .I guess.
goodbye farewell adieu au revoir ciao auf Wiedersehen adios sayonara buhbye tata laters
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby elfismiles » Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:20 pm

I must say ... it has always amazed me how folks here whom I thought I respected can be so disagreeable and mean to each other.

There are folks here who have a wealth of knowledge in areas I want to know more about, even if I disagree with their beliefs / perspectives etc. and yet, I am always disappointed at how shitty folks can be to one another.

I've seen this place rise and fall in its quality of content; I've made real world friends with some of you; continue to be online friends / acquaintances with many more of you...

I hate to think what might happen to this place as the bizarro world "out there" continues effecting infecting life "in here."

To more peaceful times, EVERYWHERE.
goodbye farewell adieu au revoir ciao auf Wiedersehen adios sayonara buhbye tata laters
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:04 am

Take Facebook as antipattern; as What Not To Do.

1) No memes. No .jpg posting. 99% of the .jpg content here disappears in 24 months time anyway, it's all hosted somewhere else.

2) No driveby sniping, no quoting 5 paragraphs of someone else's post to snark at them with a sentence. Pollution is pollution, noise is noise.

3) More discussion than headlines. We've got a "Current Events" AND a "Data Dump" now. Let's keep GD to actual discussion - moving conversations.

4) Dinner party conversations require a certain amount of restraint and decorum in order to function. Online discussions are little different.

Commitment to general discussion of the issues covered here will require a mutual commitment to leaning against the howling noise of our era. That is both difficult and very straightforward.
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Postby Perelandra » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:03 am

:yay
“The past is never dead. It's not even past.” - William Faulkner
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Iamwhomiam » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:16 am

First I'd like to ask Elvis to return and assume his role as moderator. You simply cannot turn your back on an entire community because a poster has profoundly disagreed with you. Many of us like you and appreciate your efforts.

It's difficult for one to shed lingering animosity from past arguments, as you and AD have tangled along with so many others who find his postings mind-bendingly offensive. I really have little interest in what AD posts and therefore I pay no mind to much of it. If you really don't like your neighbor, no one's making you play poker with him Saturday nights: you just don't engage. As long as the guy obeys the rules enough so to satisfy Jeff, (it is his blog, after all), he should be considered the same courtesy as you treat those you agree with, if considered at all.

I hope that doesn't offend you or anyone else, Elvis. I wasn't lurking when the AD ban came down and don't know what precipitated it. In future, I hope our mods will post notice of all suspensions in the Members Notice Board which is linked to in our RI Index page, as well as the rule violation prompting the action.

Wombat's remarks I mostly agree with. Regarding #3, I was disappointed to read a few complaints about either the dearth of posts to discuss or that the majority of topics of discussions on the opening General Discussion page were produced by only two members. I notice those complaining about either of these issues rarely posted new topics for discussion themselves, and so, I would ask for folks to not fault others for their own shortcomings.

"Mostly," Wombat, 'cause I'm not sure if you mean all pics. There are photos with different file extensions, other than .jpg, right?

Forgot to mention I also feel much as Elfismiles has so well expressed. It's especially disappointing because the static's coming from those who should know better.

Edited Typo & completed incomplete sentence.
Last edited by Iamwhomiam on Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby American Dream » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:53 am

Iamwhomiam » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:16 am wrote:In future, I hope our mods will post notice of all suspensions in the Members Notice Board which is linked to in our RI Index page, as well as the rule violation prompting the action.


Yes, one clearly known place where mods post the what, when and why of any suspensions, thread shut downs, "rule" creation and other such matters of general interest would be truly helpful.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Jerky » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:14 am

Agreed. A public announcement of the whys, whats and wherefores of any decision to ban any member here would be a very excellent thing, indeed. Because my last suspension? For a full month? That shit was bogus as bogus can be, and demonstrably so.

Consider that I was suspended for a "profanity laced tirade" that was no tirade (and I know tirades) but a calm, rational, and truthful statement of facts about the unfair treatment being meted out to SLAD, AD, myself and (ever since he dared defend us) PearTreed. And consider that said post contained not a single curse word.

No. Apparently, it was my (accurate) characterization of Elvis' behavior here as being "gang stalking" (inasmuch as he was part of a "gang" who "stalked" SLAD, AD and myself) that sent Elvis over the edge.

Anyhoo, that's all urine under the bridge, now, right?

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Hot Streets

Postby IanEye » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:43 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:04 am wrote:99% of the .jpg content here disappears in 24 months time anyway, it's all hosted somewhere else.



I find this fact soothing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWRm-UFkd_c

.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby American Dream » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:26 pm

This is an intense but difficult time of year. I feel it in my bones. I'm aware of dramatic group process happening elsewhere and I know that a lot of people are really on edge. So I want to be gentle with everyone here, including myself.

I have been here for ten years but conspiracy cultures have had a powerful effect on my life for much longer. I wrestle with fundamental issues about that most every day of my life. Rigorous Intuition has added much grist for the mill.

A basic issue all this time has been human decency and kindness. I grew up liberal and retained core values of Liberalism as I came up through the world. Though I see myself as more radical now, I never discarded the basic idea of centering the humanity, the worth, of all people- irregardless of race, ethnicity, gender, citizenship status, or anything else. This has always brought tensions to my experience here.

"Those" people: the dark, the queer, the immigrants, non-dominant genders, minority religions and cultures, etc. etc., they are my people. To a significant degree, they are also me. Every day, they are in my life in the most directly physical way possible.

Despite Jeff's best intentions, we have a world at variance with that here. Add to that, a long standing Fight Club subculture with a history of empowering serial abusers.

It's not my intention ever to be mean- and I do apologize for the times I have been harsh- but I do think social justice issues of the type I described are of the utmost importance. This definitely informs my posting style. Nowhere is this more true than in the case of Syria, which in my view extends clearly into the realm of Russian-linked information warfare efforts.

Now it's not my intention to hash out all the details of that here. I doubt we ever could in fact but I'm willing to focus on that a bit more in a different thread more focused on that theme. My key point for this thread is: Everyone here has a right to express their own unique perspective, within the limits of the recognized guidelines. Nowhere is that more true than with the issue of Syrians: Syrians as subjects of War and Imperialism, Syrians as perpetrators of the same, Syrians as refugees and immigrants- as survivors of government mind control... Diversity of thought should be respected.

As we develop moderation that centers these core principles, things will be able to get much, much better around here.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Iamwhomiam » Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:56 pm

Cordelia » Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:35 pm wrote:Elvis's resignation. What a fucking shame. What a fucking waste.

Congratulations AD on finally getting everyone's attention w/your 'Open Letter'; your own arrogant version of a Xmas newsletter I guess.

"Rigorous Intuition", the board which you sponsor, has been going downhill for some years now. One important and integral factor is the inconsistent moderation, which has been quite a problem at times. This is an ongoing issue in the time since you left, as you once played a much more active role in cultivating a healthy culture within the community.

Never has that been more apparent than now, under the defacto rule of the unaccountable Elvis Administration, which seems intent on running the board as the personal plaything of a small group of problematic posters. It would be no exaggeration to describe them as an ideologically aligned group of serial abusers.

Ultimately this is something that must be figured out in accordance with your own inner presence. I urge you to investigate thoroughly and reflect deeply on what Rigorous Intuition is in the process of becoming. I then urge you to act according to the voice of your deepest and truest conscience.

Sincerely,

A.D. aka American Dream


^^^What a Crock of Shit
Image


vondardanelle » Mon Dec 24, 2018 4:38 pm wrote:long-time lurker, i appreciate my comments carry alot less/no weight, but felt compelled to chime in a jesus christ and maybe a long sighhhh at that "open letter". i stopped reading almost everything posted by AD years ago as I was really not into his writing/copy-pasting (don't mean that as an insult, and obviously some posts get read in different threads) and that's been fine for me but it's probably alot easier for a lurker. but i really thought that wombat really said it the best here, 4 years ago: http://rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?p=553948#p553948

my first reaction to that "letter" was to have a good laugh, but then i saw elvis' resignation and yeah, what a giant shame. moderating is clearly a thankless job and i think all the mods here have not only done their best but done a good job trying to balance everything. i think everyone who regularly posts here, if they maybe take a step back for a minute, forget every/anything else on the board at the moment, and read that again...i don't know how anyone could have a reaction different to Cordelia's. many disagreements here, and the post-2016 world is an unending trash fire etc... but in the spirit of the season, maybe let's all try to at least shake our heads at that preposterous "letter".

happy holidays, everyone.



Quite frankly, Cordelia, your first response to AD's letter bears little resemblance to vondardanelle and has indelibly altered my opinion of you. Shame on you!
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Cordelia » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:44 pm

Sorry, IAM, I meant AD's letter was at first 'laughable' to me (I thought it was a joke), as expressed by vondardanelle; I don't think for a second that the rest of my first response bore any resemblance to the rest of the post.

And I'm very sorry that your opinion of me has altered so. Wow. :(

But that truthfully was my reaction to such a hateful letter and it still is.
The greatest sin is to be unconscious. ~ Carl Jung

We may not choose the parameters of our destiny. But we give it its content. ~ Dag Hammarskjold 'Waymarks'
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Jerky » Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:34 pm

What, exactly, do you find 'hateful' about AD's letter? I don't sense any hate coming off it at all. He spoke his truth, eloquently and honestly. No profanity. No exaggeration (unlike the senseless attacks that HE suffers on a multiple time per day basis here from others).

So I'll ask again: Aside from the fact that you hate AD, what was hateful about AD's letter?

Jerky

PS - That spit gif - one of the purest, most distilled expressions of inchoate hate that I've ever seen on ths board - shocked the hell out of me, as well, just FYI.
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Cordelia » Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:38 pm

Jerky » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:34 pm wrote:What, exactly, do you find 'hateful' about AD's letter? I don't sense any hate coming off it at all. He spoke his truth, eloquently and honestly. No profanity. No exaggeration (unlike the senseless attacks that HE suffers on a multiple time per day basis here from others).

So I'll ask again: Aside from the fact that you hate AD, what was hateful about AD's letter?

Jerky

PS - That spit gif - one of the purest, most distilled expressions of inchoate hate that I've ever seen on ths board - shocked the hell out of me, as well, just FYI.


My response was based on thinking the letter was composed and sent in retaliation for being banned by Elvis. AD hasn't responded (as far as I know) when he sent it or about why, how, by whom, after being suspended, he was brought back in.

What's hateful to me about the letter is if it's in retaliation, written after being suspended, it's a spiteful, revengeful aim--imo--at Elvis, to remove him, for doing a volunteer job as moderator. But since we've heard nothing from anybody about what went on/is going on, behind the curtain, it's all speculation.

The shocking spit gif was my, yes I admit, visceral response, aimed at The Letter, not at AD the person.

And Jerky, do not state 'as fact' that I hate AD; I don't--in fact I admire his thick skin and his endurance on this board, FYI.
The greatest sin is to be unconscious. ~ Carl Jung

We may not choose the parameters of our destiny. But we give it its content. ~ Dag Hammarskjold 'Waymarks'
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Re: Rhetoric and the art of Collaborative Discussion

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:55 pm

Iamwhomiam » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:16 am wrote:Regarding #3, I was disappointed to read a few complaints about either the dearth of posts to discuss or that the majority of topics of discussions on the opening General Discussion page were produced by only two members. I notice those complaining about either of these issues rarely posted new topics for discussion themselves, and so, I would ask for folks to not fault others for their own shortcomings.


Love everyone here. Still chiming in mostly to disagree, my apologies.

Here, my disagreement is total. I think it's ridiculous to disdain our -- more eloquent, more thoughtful -- posters for not "contributing" enough or not, somehow, putting in enough effort. Nobody here has an obligation to be filling this feed with Everything They've Read So Far Today. Most especially: nobody here has an obligation to keep up with that shit, either.

General Discussion should be for discussions. Not an auction block.

Iamwhomiam » Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:16 am wrote:"Mostly," Wombat, 'cause I'm not sure if you mean all pics. There are photos with different file extensions, other than .jpg, right?


No, I would definitely recommend a Cleansing Fire Jihad against cluttering this up with image content. What good is most of it? Paul Laffoley was trying to tell us something. 100% of online articles are paired with stock files that editors think will increase "engagement." What the fuck does a photograph of Dick Cheney add to an article about Dick Cheney?
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