The Wikileaks Question

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby alloneword » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:36 am

There are a few threads this could go on:

https://consortiumnews.com/2019/04/18/t ... ll-report/

The ‘Guccifer 2.0’ Gaps in Mueller’s Full Report

April 18, 2019

Like Team Mueller’s indictment last July of Russian agents, the full report reveals questions about Wikileaks’ role that much of the media has been ignoring, writes Daniel Lazare.

Special to Consortium News

As official Washington pores over the Gospel According to Saint Robert, an all-important fact about the Mueller report has gotten lost in the shuffle. Just as the Christian gospels were filled with holes, the latest version is too – particularly with regard to WikiLeaks and Julian Assange.

The five pages that the special prosecutor’s report devotes to WikiLeaks are essentially lifted from Mueller’s indictment last July of 12 members of the Russian military intelligence agency known as the GRU. It charges that after hacking the Democratic National Committee, the GRU used a specially-created online persona known as Guccifer 2.0 to transfer a gigabyte’s worth of stolen emails to WikiLeaks just as the 2016 Democratic National Convention was approaching. Four days after opening the encrypted file, the indictment says, “Organization 1 [i.e. WikiLeaks] released over 20,000 emails and other documents stolen from the DNC network by the Conspirators [i.e. the GRU].”

Mueller’s report says the same thing, but with the added twist that Assange then tried to cover up the GRU’s role by suggesting that murdered Democratic National Committee staffer Seth Rich may have been the source and by telling a congressman that the DNC email heist was an “inside job” and that he had “physical proof” that the material was not from Russian.

All of which is manna from heaven for corporate news outlets eager to pile on Assange, now behind bars in London. An April 11, 2019, New York Times news analysis, for instance, declared that “[c]ourt documents have revealed that it was Russian intelligence – using the Guccifer persona – that provided Mr. Assange thousands of emails hacked from the Democratic National Committee,” while another Times article published shortly after his arrest accuses the WikiLeaks founder of “promoting a false cover story about the source of the leaks.”

But there’s a problem: it ain’t necessarily so. The official story that the GRU is the source doesn’t hold water, as a timeline from mid-2016 shows. Here are the key events based on the GRU indictment and the Mueller report:

  • June 12: Assange tells Britain’s ITV that another round of Democratic Party disclosures is on the way: “We have upcoming leaks in relation to Hillary Clinton, which is great. WikiLeaks is having a very big year.”
  • June 14: The Democratic National Committee accuses Russia of hacking its computers.
  • June 15: Guccifer 2.0 claims credit for the hack. “The main part of the papers, thousands of files and mails, I gave to WikiLeaks ,” he brags. “They will publish them soon.”
  • June 22: WikiLeaks tells Guccifer via email: “Send any new material here for us to review and it will have a much higher impact than what you are doing.”
  • July 6: WikiLeaks sends Guccifer another email: “if you have anything hillary related we want it in the next tweo [sic] days prefable [sic] because the DNC [Democratic National Convention] is approaching and she will solidify bernie supporters behind her after.”Replies Guccifer: “ok . . . i
  • July 14: Guccifer sends WikiLeaks an encrypted file titled “wk dnc link1.txt.gpg.”
  • July 18: WikiLeaks confirms it has opened “the 1Gb or so archive” and will release documents “this week.”
  • July 22: WikiLeaks releases more than 20,000 DNC emails and 8,000 other attachments.

According to Mueller and obsequious news outlets like the Times, the sequence is clear: Guccifer sends archive, WikiLeaks receives archive, WikiLeaks accesses archive, WikiLeaks publishes archive. Donald Trump may not have colluded with Russia, but Julian Assange plainly did. [Attorney General Will Barr, significantly calling WikiLeaks a publisher, said at his Thursday press conference: “Under applicable law, publication of these types of materials would not be criminal unless the publisher also participated in the underlying hacking conspiracy.”]


Avoiding Questions

The narrative raises questions that the press studiously avoids. Why, for instance, would Assange announce on June 12 that a big disclosure is on the way before hearing from the supposed source? Was there a prior communication that Mueller has not disclosed? What about the reference to “new material” on June 22 – does that mean Assange already had other material in hand? After opening the Guccifer file on July 18, why would he publish it just four days later? Would that give WikiLeaks enough time to review some 28,000 documents to insure they’re genuine?

“If a single one of those emails had been shown to be maliciously altered,” blogger Mark F. McCarty observes, “Wikileaks’ reputation would have been in tatters.” There’s also the question that an investigator known as Adam Carter poses in Disobedient Media: why would Guccifer brag about giving WikiLeaks“thousands of files” that he wouldn’t send for another month?

The narrative doesn’t make sense a fact that is crucially important now that Assange is fighting for his freedom in the U.K. New Yorker staff writer Raffi Khatchadourian sounded a rare note of caution last summer when he warned that little about Guccifer 2.0 adds up. While claiming to be the source for some of WikiLeaks’ most explosive emails, the material he released on his own had proved mostly worthless – 20 documents that he “said were from the DNC but which were almost surely not,” as Khatchadourian puts it, a purported Hillary Clinton dossier that “was nothing of the sort,” screenshots of emails so blurry as to be “unreadable,” and so forth.

While insisting that “our source is not the Russian government and it is not a state party, Assange told Khatchadourian that the source was not Guccifer either. “We received quite a lot of submissions of material that was already published in the rest of the press, and people seemingly submitted the Guccifer archives,” he said somewhat cryptically. “We didn’t publish them. They were already published.” When Khatchadourian asked why he didn’t put the material out regardless, he replied that “the material from Guccifer 2.0 – or on WordPress – we didn’t have the resources to independently verify.”


No Time for Vetting

So four days was indeed too short a time to subject the Guccifer file to proper vetting. Of course, Mueller no doubt regards this as more “dissembling,” as his report describes it. Yet WikiLeaks has never been caught in a lie for the simple reason that honesty and credibility are all-important for a group that promises to protect anonymous leakers who supply it with official secrets. (See “Inside WikiLeaks: Working with the Publisher that Changed the World,” Consortium News, July 19, 2018.) Mueller, by contrast, has a rich history of mendacity going back to his days as FBI director when he sought to cover up the Saudi role in 9/11 and assured Congress on the eve of the 2003 invasion that Iraqi weapons of mass destruction pose “a clear threat to our national security.”

So if the Mueller narrative doesn’t hold up, the charge of dissembling doesn’t either. Indeed, as ex-federal prosecutor Andrew C. McCarthy observes in The National Review, the fact that the feds have charged Assange with unauthorized access to a government computer rather than conspiring with the Kremlin could be a sign that Team Mueller is less than confident it can prove collusion beyond a reasonable doubt. As he puts it, the GRU indictment “was more like a press release than a charging instrument” because the special prosecutor knew that the chances were zero that Russian intelligence agents would surrender to a U.S. court.

Indeed, when Mueller charged 13 employees and three companies owned by Russian businessman Yevgeny Prigozhin with interfering in the 2016 election, he clearly didn’t expect them to surrender either. Thus, his team seemed taken aback when one of the alleged “troll farms” showed up in Washington asking to be heard. The prosecution’s initial response, as McCarthy put it, was to seek a delay “on the astonishing ground that the defendant has not been properly served – notwithstanding that the defendant has shown up in court and asked to be arraigned.” When that didn’t work, prosecutors tried to limit Concord’s access to some 3.2 million pieces of evidence on the grounds that the documents are too “sensitive” for Russian eyes to see. If they are again unsuccessful, they may have no choice but to drop the charges entirely, resulting in yet another “public relations disaster” for the Russia-gate investigation.

None of which bodes well for Mueller or the news organizations that worship at his shrine. After blowing the Russia-gate story all these years, why does the Times continue to slander the one news organization that tells the truth?



Last edited by alloneword on Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
alloneword
 
Posts: 902
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:19 am
Location: UK
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby Sounder » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:51 am

https://www.salon.com/2017/08/15/what-i ... er-ignore/
VIPS states two things with what they describe as a high degree of certainty: There was no Russian hack on July 5, and the metadata from Guccifer’s June 15 document release was “synthetically tainted” with “Russian fingerprints.”

How did the group come to the conclusion that it was a leak, not a hack?

Investigators found that 1,976 megabytes of data were downloaded locally on July 5, 2016. The information was downloaded with a memory key or some other portable storage device. The download operation took 87 seconds — meaning the speed of transfer was 22.7 megabytes per second — “a speed that far exceeds an internet capability for a remote hack,” as Lawrence puts it. What’s more, they say, a transoceanic transfer would have been even slower (Guccifer claimed to be working from Romania).

“Based on the data we now have, what we’ve been calling a hack is impossible,” Folden told The Nation.


Noise and signal are really quite different from each other.
Sounder
 
Posts: 4054
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby RocketMan » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:17 am

Yep. :hihi:

And the entire RUSSIANS ATTACKED THE US ELECTIONS narrative is balanced on this extremely creaky structure. Or does someone still think amateurish Facebook ads warning against the dangers of masturbation count...?

I was very disappointed to see Elizabeth Warren spouting the FOREIGN POWER ATTACKED US line when she was demanding Trump's impeachment on Maddow (bleargh).

Sounder » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:51 am wrote:https://www.salon.com/2017/08/15/what-if-the-dnc-russian-hack-was-really-a-leak-after-all-a-new-report-raises-questions-media-and-democrats-would-rather-ignore/
VIPS states two things with what they describe as a high degree of certainty: There was no Russian hack on July 5, and the metadata from Guccifer’s June 15 document release was “synthetically tainted” with “Russian fingerprints.”

How did the group come to the conclusion that it was a leak, not a hack?

Investigators found that 1,976 megabytes of data were downloaded locally on July 5, 2016. The information was downloaded with a memory key or some other portable storage device. The download operation took 87 seconds — meaning the speed of transfer was 22.7 megabytes per second — “a speed that far exceeds an internet capability for a remote hack,” as Lawrence puts it. What’s more, they say, a transoceanic transfer would have been even slower (Guccifer claimed to be working from Romania).

“Based on the data we now have, what we’ve been calling a hack is impossible,” Folden told The Nation.


Noise and signal are really quite different from each other.
-I don't like hoodlums.
-That's just a word, Marlowe. We have that kind of world. Two wars gave it to us and we are going to keep it.
User avatar
RocketMan
 
Posts: 2813
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:02 am
Location: By the rivers dark
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby Belligerent Savant » Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:52 pm

RocketMan » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:17 am wrote:Yep. :hihi:

And the entire RUSSIANS ATTACKED THE US ELECTIONS narrative is balanced on this extremely creaky structure. Or does someone still think amateurish Facebook ads warning against the dangers of masturbation count...?

I was very disappointed to see Elizabeth Warren spouting the FOREIGN POWER ATTACKED US line when she was demanding Trump's impeachment on Maddow (bleargh).



Warren's statements shouldn't be a disappointment. It's par for the course. Part of the Establishment storyline. She's merely playing her part.

This "hack" narrative was on very shaky foundation from the start. The Guccifer 2.0 thread delves into the myriad flaws in detail, including VIPS' findings. It's not a surprise Mueller's "investigation" relies on these unsubstantiated data points -- presented as established/confirmed findings -- in his farcical report.

The entire exercise was an extended 2 yr gaslight/smokescreen.



Side-bar diversion:

(I may be naive indicating this exercise -- this particular iteration of the ongoing affront to our perceptions/collective consciousness, not the report, per se -- was merely 2 yrs in the making. The reality is we, the common folk, can only assess/analyze information provided to us, so we're at a disadvantage from the start. The 'ol 'limited hangout' premise remains, alas. I see current and former intel agents presenting overtly conflicting narratives. Conflicting, of course, to those of us with only a limited view of the landscape.
Occlusion. Harkens back to the hint uttered by that bruho Rummy about the known knowns, known unknowns, and the unknown unknowns. A discussion to delve into in more detail another time, perhaps.

sub side-bar:

Actually, I'm merely resurfacing certain talking points raised at the onset of this 10yr old thread. An impressive archive/time capsule we've cultivated here.)
Last edited by Belligerent Savant on Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Belligerent Savant
 
Posts: 5573
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Location: North Atlantic.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby RocketMan » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:33 pm

Don't disagree with your there Belligerent Savant.

This was, I think, an extremely intriguing angle of attack from JackRiddler on another thread, crosspost:

JackRiddler wrote:I do not know, but my guess is that the idea that Wikileaks "withheld" a document it published has been dispensed as a talking point by some higher-level sophist: a sophist with the authority of being a priest or wizard in the church of conventional "liberal" or "resistance" wisdom. I'm guessing this went "viral" and was seen by or eventually filtered down to our local self-appointed believers. It's hard to believe in it as a spontaneous thing, it's too specific and, really, exotic. It's also a case of trying to attack the enemy's evident, greatest strengths -- Wikileaks releases documents that should not be secret, and that you would never have otherwise seen. But in this case the "swiftboating" is done with total incompetence.
-I don't like hoodlums.
-That's just a word, Marlowe. We have that kind of world. Two wars gave it to us and we are going to keep it.
User avatar
RocketMan
 
Posts: 2813
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:02 am
Location: By the rivers dark
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby liminalOyster » Tue Apr 23, 2019 1:52 pm

And the entire RUSSIANS ATTACKED THE US ELECTIONS narrative is balanced on this extremely creaky structure. Or does someone still think amateurish Facebook ads warning against the dangers of masturbation count...?


Worth adding here that I've looked at a number of "summaries" of the Mueller report -- trying to one find even a single one that was focused on *what the "Russians" actually did* -- and came across zero.

It's hardly surprising.
"It's not rocket surgery." - Elvis
User avatar
liminalOyster
 
Posts: 1890
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 10:28 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby alloneword » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:06 pm

liminalOyster » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:52 pm wrote:trying to one find even a single one that was focused on *what the "Russians" actually did* -- and came across zero.

It's hardly surprising.


Greenwald managed to quote a single para from Mueller regarding IRA spending $100k, but preceded it with the li(n)e:

Mueller certainly provides substantial evidence that Russians attempted to meddle in various ways in the U.S. election, including by hacking the DNC and Podesta and through Facebook posts and tweets.


But then he declines to offer the faintest hint as to what this 'substantial evidence' of 'hacking the DNC' might be, or where in the report it's located, which is actually pretty funny when you look at the link he gives a mere 25 words later. The twat. :lol:
User avatar
alloneword
 
Posts: 902
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:19 am
Location: UK
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby RocketMan » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:59 pm

He's not always very good at tip-toeing the line. Despite it all, he wants to be contrarian, but not really dangerous.

Very disappointing.

alloneword » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:06 pm wrote:
liminalOyster » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:52 pm wrote:trying to one find even a single one that was focused on *what the "Russians" actually did* -- and came across zero.

It's hardly surprising.


Greenwald managed to quote a single para from Mueller regarding IRA spending $100k, but preceded it with the li(n)e:

Mueller certainly provides substantial evidence that Russians attempted to meddle in various ways in the U.S. election, including by hacking the DNC and Podesta and through Facebook posts and tweets.


But then he declines to offer the faintest hint as to what this 'substantial evidence' of 'hacking the DNC' might be, or where in the report it's located, which is actually pretty funny when you look at the link he gives a mere 25 words later. The twat. :lol:
-I don't like hoodlums.
-That's just a word, Marlowe. We have that kind of world. Two wars gave it to us and we are going to keep it.
User avatar
RocketMan
 
Posts: 2813
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:02 am
Location: By the rivers dark
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby stickdog99 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:44 pm

The only thing "everyone" can seem to agree from Barr to Mueller to Clinton to Hannity to Maddow to Greenwald is that "Russians hacked the election."

For some reason, that narrative (which as far as I can tell is based wholly on Crowdstrike's own highly questionable analysis as well as blind faith that whatever the Russians supposedly did actually changed the minds of thousands of voters) has become as sacrosanct as the idea that Bin Laden attacked the USA on 9/11. Nobody "reasonable" is allowed to question these "proven" narratives.
stickdog99
 
Posts: 6559
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:42 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby Belligerent Savant » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:46 pm

.

Quite right. Hence the content of my prior post above.

Feigned opposition all around.

The prospect of questioning the base narrative is verboten.

Just like the harshest establishment challenge to 911 was "our leaders were caught unprepared".

(One layer deeper was the 'let it happen' mindset, which still relies on external actors.)

The meta narrative remains the same - 'opposing' factions that pose threats to each other.

Keep appearances: expose lies, of course, but not the Grand Lies.

The Grand Lies remain obfuscated/occluded.

Edit to add: this is not to suggest overt centralized coordination -- it's not so simple as that. However, in this current manifestation of information management/conglomeration of media ownership, it'd be naive to assume any talking head on an Establishment news source is provided 'free reign' to speak their mind. We need only observe the many montages curated on youtube ("the walls are closing in"; "bombshell"; "the beginning of the end", etc.) as more overt/facile samples of the stratagem in play. No one that speaks or writes within Establishment confines is immune to it. The subtlety is modulated per target audience.
Last edited by Belligerent Savant on Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Belligerent Savant
 
Posts: 5573
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Location: North Atlantic.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby stickdog99 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:11 pm

Belligerent Savant » 23 Apr 2019 22:46 wrote:.

Quite right. Hence the content of my prior post above.

Feigned opposition all around.

The prospect of questioning the base narrative is verboten.

Just like the harshest establishment challenge to 911 was "our leaders were caught unprepared".

(One layer deeper was the 'let it happen' mindset, which still relies on external actors.)

The meta narrative remains the same - 'opposing' factions that pose threats to each other.

Keep appearances: expose lies, of course, but not the Grand Lies.

The Grand Lies remain obfuscated/occluded.

Edit to add: this is not to suggest overt centralized coordination -- it's not so simple as that. However, in this current manifestation of information management/conglomeration of media ownership, it'd be naive to assume any talking head on any news program or Establishment news source is provided 'free reign' to speak their mind. We need only observe the many montages curated on youtube ("the walls are closing in"; "bombshell"; "the beginning of the end", etc.) as more overt/facile samples of the stratagem in play. No one that speaks or writes within Establishment confines is immune to it. The subtlety is modulated per target audience.


Yeah. I love it when someone opines, "So you really think that dozens of people could possibly keep something like ____ secret?"

LOL. Can the mob keep its crimes "secret"? Can a gang keep its crimes "secret"? Can the employees at a company (say Merck) keep that company's crimes "secret"? Can a police department keep its payoffs "secret"? Could Bin Laden keep his supposed plan "secret"? Can prisoners in jail keep what the other prisoners did "secret"? Can people keep the darkest things about their own families "secret"? Can giant corporations and hedge funds keep their nefarious practices "secret"? Can the DNC and RNC keep their crimes "secret"?

You don't need to do anything other than develop a culture in which disclosure/dissension is clearly punished and discretion/conformity is clearly rewarded. You know, like almost any culture imaginable. The vast majority of people get the implicit message and do whatever they discern they are expected to do.
stickdog99
 
Posts: 6559
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:42 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby RocketMan » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:13 am

Whew... :phew:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-I don't like hoodlums.
-That's just a word, Marlowe. We have that kind of world. Two wars gave it to us and we are going to keep it.
User avatar
RocketMan
 
Posts: 2813
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:02 am
Location: By the rivers dark
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby alloneword » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:18 am

John Kiriakou on Assange's chances of getting a fair trial:

https://twitter.com/CassandraRules/stat ... 2102405121

-

Also, Consortium News:

[T]oday begins a series of articles, “The Revelations of WikiLeaks,” that will look back on the major works of the publication that have altered the world since its founding in 2006. This series is an effort to counter mainstream media coverage, which is ignoring WikiLeaks’ work, and instead is focusing on Julian Assange’s personality. It is the uncovering by WikiLeaks of governments’ crimes and corruption that set the U.S. after Assange and which ultimately led to his arrest on April 11. The “Collateral Murder” video was just the first of many major WikiLeaks revelations that made the journalist one of the world’s most wanted men, simply for the act of publishing.

https://consortiumnews.com/2019/04/23/n ... rosshairs/
User avatar
alloneword
 
Posts: 902
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:19 am
Location: UK
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby Grizzly » Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:06 pm

Julian Assange: Death Penalty? Cassandra Fairbanks and Stefan Molyneux

Will Julian Assange face the death penalty in the United States? What does his arrest mean for freedom of speech, and journalism worldwide? What is at stake for whistleblowers and speaking truth to power? What changed under the administration of President Donald Trump? Join Journalist Cassandra Fairbanks and Philosopher Stefan Molyneux as they unravel the complex web of intrigue and legal danger faced by Julian Assange, the most famous journalist in the world



-----

Julian Assange and Chelsea Manning: The Effects of Solitary Confinement and Why It Is Torture
https://angelof-truth.com/2019/04/24/julian-assange-and-chelsea-manning-the-effects-of-solitary-confinement-and-why-it-is-torture/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Assange and Manning have both spent a lot of time in solitary confinement. In this article I will try and explain why this is torture and what it does psychologically to those who spend long amounts of time placed therein. There are tons of articles you can read online about this, but the main point is that the detrimental effect on a person’s psyche is permanent.
Assange and Manning have both spent a lot of time in solitary confinement. In this article I will try and explain why this is torture and what it does psychologically to those who spend long amounts of time placed therein. There are tons of articles you can read online about this, but the main point is that the detrimental effect on a person’s psyche is permanent.


In an article by the American Psychology Association, they state some very facts.
“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

― Joseph mengele
User avatar
Grizzly
 
Posts: 4907
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:15 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Wikileaks Question

Postby alloneword » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:30 pm

^^^ Cheers, G... The psychology articles quoted in your second link were well worth reading. The numbers held in 'isolation' (~100,000) are truly staggering.

Medialens did their usual round-up of the depths and breadths of media shitweaselry last week:

Part 1 - Part 2

I always think I've probably seen the worst of it already, but I'm always wrong. At least the medialens crew have some nice turns of phrase... e.g:

David Aaronovitch of the The Times' 101st Chairborne 'Humanitarian Intervention' Division, tweeted with the same compassion that guides his relentless warmongering
User avatar
alloneword
 
Posts: 902
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:19 am
Location: UK
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests