The RI thread about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

[RocketMan]

I like how she pushes back on mainstream "wisdom" with the über-hack Isikoff without coming off as too strident.

That said, if she fails to endorse Bernie, I'm so over her.

[stickdog99]

Sure, corporate media and US Empire pressure appear to have almost every single member of the US Congress afraid to take a principled stance on the clearly illegal and unconscionable US coup attempt in Venezuela, and this is mind-numbingly disappointing. Is anybody in or near US federal power on the legal, moral, self-determination side of this issue?

Still, all things are relative. And Sanders and AOC are both enlightened Buddhas relative to our average representatives at all levels of government in the United States, including student and union government. And they aren't just the lesser of two diabolical oligarchic water carriers, which is the only dynamic I have seen for over a half a century.

Three short years ago, the establishment tried to write off Sanders' platform as the voice of some sort of lunatic fringe that never needed to be taken seriously and would never be seriously considered. Now, even DNC's proffered Obama clones have to pay lip service to Sanders' platform. So why is now the time to throw up our hands and bemoan any chance at any electoral progress? This makes no sense to me. What do we have to lose by continuing to fight to get these issues on the table?

[RocketMan]

Yeah, this is pretty balanced take. I finished the clip now (yeah, I post things I haven't completely gone through, sue me) and I just like the whole "iron fist in a velvet glove" thing she's got going. I think she is a VERY savvy politician, but MUCH more principled than what pretty much anyone in her position.

AND she beautifully handled the attempt to bring RUSSIAGATE in the discussion. She has in fact consistently kept it at arm's length. Here she takes great care to highlight the EMOLUMENTS CLAUSE foundation for possible impeachment, which could conceivably include corruption with Russian parties. Beautifully played, I thought.

Sure, corporate media and US Empire pressure appear to have almost every single member of the US Congress afraid to take a principled stance on the clearly illegal and unconscionable US coup attempt in Venezuela, and this is mind-numbingly disappointing. Is anybody in or near US federal power on the legal, moral, self-determination side of this issue?

Still, all things are relative. And Sanders and AOC are both enlightened Buddhas relative to our average representatives at all levels of government in the United States, including student and union government. And they aren't just the lesser of two diabolical oligarchic water carriers, which is the only dynamic I have seen for over a half a century.

Three short years ago, the establishment tried to write off Sanders' platform as the voice of some sort of lunatic fringe that never needed to be taken seriously and would never be seriously considered. Now, even DNC's proffered Obama clones have to pay lip service to Sanders' platform. So why is now the time to throw up our hands and bemoan any chance at any electoral progress? This makes no sense to me. What do we have to lose by continuing to fight to get these issues on the table?

[Karmamatterz]

Not sure how anybody is taking AOC seriously when her chief of staff brazenly wears t-shirts of, and is infatuated with Subhas Chandra Bose.






https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subhas_Chandra_Bose

How is it that both AOC and Saikat Chakrabarti, who worships a fascist, get a pass? It is well known that Bose was a fascist and himself a Nazi supporter.

What gives here folks?

[RocketMan]

Weeeeell I had not heard about that.

A quick search reveals that this unfortunate choice of shirts is being talked about mainly in fringe-right circles. The level of fascism of Chakrabarti remains to be determined...

[Karmamatterz]

A quick search reveals that this unfortunate choice of shirts is being talked about mainly in fringe-right circles. The level of fascism of Chakrabarti remains to be determined...

Unfortunate choice of shirts? Bwaaahaahahaha.

I see, it's the messenger, not the facts? So if the "fringe right" brings it up then it should be dismissed? What about those who aren't on the fringe right? Just your average person not on either extreme who wonders who the heck is that guy on his "unfortunate" shirts? Is that more acceptable?

Degrees of fascism? Oh boy, really got some zingers going here now. Did you mean to put that in green?

One can easily imagine the visceral outrage if certain other people wore shirts displaying known fascists. We're not talking about something minor. When you actually wear clothing depicting images it means a lot. It's not like he was wearing a Nike shirt that was super comfortable when hot and sweaty so the Nike logo not being a big deal. We're talking about a known fascist who shook hands with Adolf Hitler and then was assisted by the Nazis in his efforts to travel to Japan.

Bose having a nice, warm and friendly chat with Himmler. How quaint.

[alloneword]

I wouldn't be surprised if Bose was prepared to fellate Satan himself - if it would rid India of the British.

[stickdog99]

A quick search reveals that this unfortunate choice of shirts is being talked about mainly in fringe-right circles. The level of fascism of Chakrabarti remains to be determined...

Unfortunate choice of shirts? Bwaaahaahahaha.

I see, it's the messenger, not the facts? So if the "fringe right" brings it up then it should be dismissed? What about those who aren't on the fringe right? Just your average person not on either extreme who wonders who the heck is that guy on his "unfortunate" shirts? Is that more acceptable?

Degrees of fascism? Oh boy, really got some zingers going here now. Did you mean to put that in green?

One can easily imagine the visceral outrage if certain other people wore shirts displaying known fascists. We're not talking about something minor. When you actually wear clothing depicting images it means a lot. It's not like he was wearing a Nike shirt that was super comfortable when hot and sweaty so the Nike logo not being a big deal. We're talking about a known fascist who shook hands with Adolf Hitler and then was assisted by the Nazis in his efforts to travel to Japan.

Bose having a nice, warm and friendly chat with Himmler. How quaint.

LOL. Are you serious? So we are supposed to stop taking anything AOC ever says seriously because she associates with an Indian-American who commemorates an assassinated leader in the struggle for Indian independence who chose the Nazi Empire over the British Empire?

No need to examine the entire geopolitical situation of India at the time. No, all you have to do is produce a couple of pictures of Bose being cordial with a couple of known Nazis to induce liberal shaming! Are you fucking serious? I wholly admit that I am not an expert on Bose, and I am willing to be convinced of his vast villainy and how any rational Indian-American should be rightly ashamed of him. But we can't possibly take AOC seriously because she hired someone who commemorates an assassinated leader in the struggle for Indian independence on his t-shirt because you can produce PICTURES OF THIS SAME GUY MEETING WITH NAZIS!. That's the entire depth of your argument?

Do you have any friends who ever sported Clinton bumper stickers? Because I can produce some interesting wedding photos. How about any friends who wear John Lennon or Elvis t-shirts? I mean, I can produce pictures of Lennon meeting with Maoists and Elvis meeting with Nixon!

[JackRiddler]

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Bose wasn't fascist, he was Congress party. Still, who the hell makes t-shirts of him?!

In context of the India independence struggle, he made the, I would agree, fatal and unforgivable error of allying actively with the Nazis and Japanese against the British Empire that had colonized India. Congress and Gandhi didn't see reason to support the British against Germany, no matter what the context. The Indian case is the only one in which I can understand that. Congress chose 1943 for an uprising, also understandable especially following the mass death during the classically British famines of 1942 (food was being exported; Churchill's correspondence on it was to the effect of too bad for the starving Indians, the troops and our allies need the food). Congress did not ally with Nazi Germany, however, let alone like Bose take up arms against British rule in India with a Japanese-led army of exile Indians operating out of Burma. So he is discredited, within India also, and usually left out of the Congress/independence struggle pantheon.

One question is what Chakrabarti thinks he is wearing.

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[RocketMan]

I somehow still doubt that Chakrabarti and, by association AOC, are crypto nazis. This is an interesting history lesson nonetheless. And I do hope he does not continue to wear that shirt.

[stickdog99]

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Bose wasn't fascist, he was Congress party. Still, who the hell makes t-shirts of him?!

In context of the India independence struggle, he made the, I would agree, fatal and unforgivable error of allying actively with the Nazis and Japanese against the British Empire that had colonized India. Congress and Gandhi didn't see reason to support the British against Germany, no matter what the context. The Indian case is the only one in which I can understand that. Congress chose 1943 for an uprising, also understandable especially following the mass death during the classically British famines of 1942 (food was being exported; Churchill's correspondence on it was to the effect of too bad for the starving Indians, the troops and our allies need the food). Congress did not ally with Nazi Germany, however, let alone like Bose take up arms against British rule in India with a Japanese-led army of exile Indians operating out of Burma. So he is discredited, within India also, and usually left out of the Congress/independence struggle pantheon.

One question is what Chakrabarti thinks he is wearing.

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Good question. But you are pronouncing your final, absolute, authoritarian judgment on Bose through the eyes of accepted establishment Western history, not through the eyes of Indians desperately struggling for independence from the British. My grandfather fought for the "new" IRA. Should I disown him for "going too far" because establishment Western history does?

Fuck you and your bullshit authoritative analysis that it is "fatal and unforgivable" to actively resist your former and current oppressor colonizer (who is currently murdering millions of your countrymen). Mistaken, perhaps. Not "fatal and unforgivable" until you live your entire life in someone else's shoes.

The Indian case is the only one in which I can understand that.

Oh, how compassionate of you to barely "understand" why people might not want to serve as more fodder for the Empire that treated them exactly as such for so long.

Seriously, who the fuck do you think you are to make such pronouncements with such false authority? Do you ever check your Western privilege?

[JackRiddler]

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Why did I even say anything here, what was to be gained? Now I'm gonna take righteous bullshit from opposite ill-conceived positions: First, for saying that it's okay for Indians not to support the British Empire even against the Nazis during World War II (my god, I expressed "understanding" for this - how dare I presume to understand!!!). But second, also for saying that Bose was not a fascist, although it's wrong to actively ally with the Nazis. Apparently the latter is my Western privilege talking? (I thought the Nazis were a Western thing? Anyway, my perspective on German history is largely as a German historian.) Also, I spoke with too much "authority"! Very unlike stickdog's pronouncements.

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[Karmamatterz]

Nice. Now RI folks are making excuses for parading around wearing clothes depicting fascists. Wow.

Who the hell wears shit like that? Cryto Nazi or not. What would you think if we were both walking down the street and you saw me wearing a t-shirt of fascist who sat with Himmler and shook hands with Hitler? Where is Dr. Evil? I'm sure he would want to punch a Nazi supporter.

Bose wasn't fascist, he was Congress party.

Uh hmmmm....

Congress did not ally with Nazi Germany

Sure the party didn't "visit" Nazi Germany and sit down for tea, Bose DID. Maybe Himmler and Bose weren't trading recipes for Zyklon B, perhaps they were just sharing ideas on segregation and using fascist forms of government to gently rule nations.

Bose also founded the Free India Center and created the Indian Legion (4500 soldiers altogether) which was attached to the German Army, but later placed under the authority of the Waffen-SS. The members of the Indian Legion were required to swear allegiance to Hitler and Bose in order to secure German support.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/27956298/Sub ... ose-Netaji

"One is inclined to hold that the next phase in world-history will produce a synthesis between Communism and Fascism. And will it be a surprise if that synthesis in produced in India? ... In spite of the antithesis between Communism and Fascism, there are certain traits in common. Both Communism and Fascism believe in the supremacy of the State over the individual. Both denounce parliamentary democracy. Both believe in party rule. Both believe in the dictatorship of the party and in the ruthless suppression of all dissenting minorities. Both believe in a planned industrial reorganization of the country. These common traits will form the basis of the new synthesis. That synthesis is called ... 'Samyavada' -- an Indian word, which means literally 'the doctrine of synthesis or equality.' It will be India's task to work out this synthesis." -- Subhas Chandra Bose, The Indian Struggle (Bombay, New York: Asia Publishing House,1964), pp. 313f.

Compare Bose to Gandhi. if AOC and her staff are so much about peace, love and equality why isn't the dude wearing a shirt depicting Gandhi? It's really disgusting how AOC and this dude are given a pass. Anybody who can't see what this means is in denial about these puppets. AOC just so conveniently fits into the narratives.

One question is what Chakrabarti thinks he is wearing.

Let's not pretend here. No need to excuse him. If he is that dumb he has no business in the position he is in. If he is wearing it deliberately he has no business in the position he is in. Yes, I love the double bind. Don't care what he thinks, it's what he did wearing the shirt.

[Karmamatterz]

But we can't possibly take AOC seriously because she hired someone who commemorates an assassinated leader in the struggle for Indian independence on his t-shirt because you can produce PICTURES OF THIS SAME GUY MEETING WITH NAZIS!. That's the entire depth of your argument?

No, there is plenty of other material showing Bose was a fascist.

HELL YES, a picture of someone yucking it up with that sick FUCK HIMMLER is worth a thousand words. Look at the two sharing a smile.

Making excuses for Bose and fascist politics and the situation in India at the time....What was Gandhi doing?

[JackRiddler]

What was Gandhi doing?

The Indian National Congress, led by Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel and Maulana Azad, denounced Nazi Germany but would not fight it or anyone else until India was independent.[9] Congress launched the Quit India Movement in August 1942, refusing to co-operate in any way with the government until independence was granted. The government wasn't ready for this move. It immediately arrested over 60,000 national and local Congress leaders, and then moved to suppress the violent reaction of Congress supporters. Key leaders were kept in prison until June 1945, although Gandhi was released in May 1944 because of his health. Congress, with its leaders incommunicado, played little role on the home front. The Muslim League rejected the Quit India movement and worked closely with the Raj authorities.[10]

Supporters of the British Raj argued that decolonisation was impossible in the middle of a great war. So, in 1939, the British Viceroy, Lord Linlithgow declared India's entry into the War without consulting prominent Indian Congress leaders who were just elected in previous elections.[1]

Subhas Chandra Bose (also called Netaji) had been a top Congress leader. He broke with Congress and tried to form a military alliance with Germany or Japan to gain independence. Bose, with the assistance of Germany, formed the Indian Legion from Indian students in Axis occupied Europe and Indian Army prisoners of war. With German reversals in 1942 and 1943, Bose and the Legion's officers were transported by U boat to Japanese territory to continue his plans. Upon arrival, Japan helped him set up the Indian National Army (INA) which fought under Japanese direction, mostly in Burma Campaign. Bose also headed the Provisional Government of Free India, a government-in-exile based in Singapore. It controlled no Indian territory and was used only to raise troops for Japan.[11]