Who Parked The Moon?

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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby identity » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:07 pm

I am fully agnostic on this matter -- I would not bet money on either possibility in the end being "proven" to be true [edit: I should perhaps have said "any possibility" rather than "either", since there are indeed multiple possibilities (e.g. they actually did land on the moon, but photos were faked on earth, etc.)] -- but there do seem to be enough gaps in the official account to warrant further and deeper investigation.

More from Wisnewski on the camera and photos:

He came along, he had a look, he took a snap

Imagine going to London with your wife for the
weekend. Since she is very fond of holiday snaps
she has asked you to record the trip
photographically. No problem, you think. But your
wife has a slightly sadistic turn of mind, so she
sees to it that your task is not as easy as you
thought. As you take pictures of her on the steps
of Westminster Abbey and standing beside a
Bobby, you are not allowed to look through the
viewfinder of your reflex camera. Indeed, so that
you really obey her wishes, your wife has removed
the mirror. Furthermore, you cannot hold the
camera at head height to help you ‘take aim’
because your wife has fixed it firmly to your chest!
And as if this were not enough, exposure time,
aperture and focus are not set automatically. The
camera does have a light meter, but its readings
show in the viewfinder which you can’t see.

Grotesque? Yet these are the very conditions
under which the Apollo astronauts were expected
to photograph their jaunts on the moon – and
this was no sightseeing weekend in a city already
photographed billions of times but the very first
visit of human beings to another heavenly body.

Compared with today’s possibilities involving fully
automatic and digital cameras, photography as it
was in 1969 belongs to the far distant past, not in
terms of resolution, clarity and quality of the
pictures but in terms of the probability of getting
good results. Whereas now you have a good
chance of getting a correctly exposed picture the
very first time you press the release button, this
was exceedingly unlikely in those days when the
art of photography consisted in having skills in
head and hands which today are all contained in
electronic chips. You needed experience in
assessing the overall lighting situation and in setting
aperture, exposure time and focus. The same went
for design elements such as deciding on the field
of view. At the end of the 1960s photography was
a skilled occupation, especially when using medium
or large cameras where mistakes showed up much
more than with small or mini-cameras. By having
them use a Hasselblad 500 medium format
camera on the moon, NASA was making great
demands on the astronauts in their role as
photographers. It took a lot of skill to use a tool
like that, more skill than just coming along, having
a look and then taking a snap. On the contrary.
To take a good picture with one of those ‘old’
Hasselblads you needed plenty of experience, skill,
patience and time. You certainly can’t point it at a
subject as you pass by and shoot in the
assumption that the photo you take will be a good
one. You have to spend some time on a motif
and take several snaps on different settings.

According to NASA, the camera used on the
surface of the moon was a standard Hasselblad
500 EL with very few alterations.

1  A reseau screen had been inserted between film
and lens with a grid of five times five small
crosses. The grid was supposed to make for better
orientation, estimation of distance and assessment
of distortion. But perhaps this was merely a
pseudo-scientific show. Since it was placed between
the film and the lens system, every one of the
little crosses had to show up on every photo.

2  The lens system consisted of a Zeiss-Biogon
wide-angle lens specially developed for NASA with
a focal distance of 60 mm and a maximum
aperture of 5.6. The lens was also fitted with a
removable polarization filter.

3  The only protection against heat for both
camera and magazine was a reflective coating.
There was no other protection against temperature
extremes of over 100°C plus and under 100°C
minus or against radioactive rays.

4  Finally the camera was also fitted with anti-static
devices.

In view of the weight problems in both the
command module and the lunar module one
might have expected a smaller camera to be used.
Not one but three Hasselblad cameras were
carried on Apollo 11. The other two were inside
the lunar module and in the command module
orbiting round the moon. The Hasselblad
equipment described is not necessarily what one
would recommend for reportage in extreme
circumstances, and certainly not for situations in
which there is a lack of time or space, as was the
case with the Apollo 11 mission when the two
astronauts were able to spend only two and a half
hours on the moon’s surface.

The film used was an ordinary Kodak
Ektachrome diapositive film, although the sensitivity
was 160 ASA. If this is true, it is surprising
for two reasons. Firstly a diapositive film is very
unsuitable for situations where light conditions are
not known since it is less tolerant of errors.
Secondly 160 ASA is very sensitive for the light
conditions on the moon. Since there is no
atmosphere one must reckon with extremely
glaring sunlight. The more sensitive the film, the
greater the danger of over-exposure. In other
words, the equipment does not seem to be
particularly fit for purpose. It is equipment that
one would use under quite different circumstances
where there is

-  known and stable lighting;
-  sufficient space in which to stow the camera;
-  sufficient calm and time in which to use it;
-  sufficient opportunity to make full use of it.

Surely it is no coincidence that this tends to make
one think of a studio rather than an unknown
and inimical environment.

In the days of manual and ‘chemical’
photography it often happened that only every
second or third picture was any good. The most
frequent mistakes were wrong exposure, an
unsteady hand, blurring, and cutting off heads or
feet. People had to learn how to set the exposure
time correctly by experience. The 2001 exposure
instructions for Kodak Ektachrome diapositive film,
for example, suggest aperture 22 at 250th of a
second for bright sunshine on sand or snow, and
aperture 5.6 for a heavily overcast sky.

Unfortunately, however, since these settings were
of course established on earth they cannot simply
be transferred to lunar conditions. Moreover, even
on earth settings gained through experience were
merely approximations and never led to perfect
results, which was why people liked to take a
second and third picture ‘above’ and ‘below’ the
suggested exposure value. This is termed
‘bracketing’. Without bracketing it is impossible to
work in uncertain exposure situations.

Compared with today, there was also another
important lack, namely, the instant feedback
available with digital cameras which helps the
photographer adapt to a situation. The astronauts
could only find out how well their pictures had
turned out once they returned to earth. All in all
‘lunar photography’ faced almost insurmountable
difficulties in virtually every respect:

-  Handling
Manual; the difficulty was greatly aggravated by
having the camera fixed to the chest. The very
thick pressurized gloves added to the difficulties.

-  Aperture
Had to be set manually. Exposure parameters
were set according to terrestrial conditions and
sunlight. The astronauts had no external exposure
meter and would have been unable to use an
internal one since the readings were displayed in
the viewfinder which they could not access.

-  Exposure time
Had to be set manually. Neither aperture settings
nor timings were automatic.

-  Focus
This should have been one of the lesser problems.
As things stood, the astronauts would have had to
fall back on a greater depth of field, on the one
hand because the wide-angle lens (focal distance:
60 mm) brings subjects more than 1 metre away
into focus, and on the other because of the bright
sunlight that calls for a small aperture, thus also
bringing about a greater depth of field.

-  Field of view
This could not be determined since the astronaut’s
rigid helmet prevented him from looking through
the viewfinder of the camera fixed on his chest.
And anyway, the viewfinder would have been
useless because the mirror had been removed.

-  Film
It was to be expected that the sensitivity of the
chemical films would be affected by the extreme
temperatures – if indeed not rendered useless by
temperatures of over 100°C as well as radioactivity.
Radioactivity usually causes misting effects and a
reduction in contrast. Unlike the later MAX films
used on the International Space Station (i.e. below
the radiation belt), the cameras and films had no
special protection. And finally, diapositive films had
only a narrow exposure range.

In other words the problems and limitations of
photography on the moon were grotesque. The
astronauts had little chance of bringing back
useable photos. So the result is all the more
astonishing, by which I don’t mean that a few of
the photos on the moon worked out quite well
but that all the photos on the first film of Apollo
11 came out perfectly.

So let’s go along with Neil Armstrong, the first
human being on the moon, and those who
followed him on their photographic safari and have
a look at some situations which sceptics have
already pointed out as suspect. To give the reader
the same quality as I have, I shall use the photos
in their original quality via the http://www.wisnewski.de
website. So, have a look at the first photo Neil
Armstrong is said to have taken after leaving the
lunar module (over, top left):

The first photos on the moon are a success.
Armstrong’s photos AS11-40-5850, AS11-40-5851
(sequence numbering by NASA)

It’s not surprising that such pictures should be
treated as suspect. Not only is the exposure
perfect, but also the composition and lighting. One
foot of the lunar module is bang in the middle of
the picture. The left-hand edge of the words
‘United States’ is flush with the left-hand edge of
the picture. Without a viewfinder! Armstrong jumps
down from the lunar module, clicks the shutter of
the camera fixed to his chest – a direct hit! He
came along, he had a look, he took a snap! And
then he took a 360 degree panorama of the
moon’s surface.

Perfect snapshot: Buzz Aldrin leaves the lunar
module. The brighter area is reflected light.
Armstrong photo AS11-40-5863

Then the much hampered Hasselblad photographer
Armstrong is about to experience a truly historic
moment, every bit as important as a handshake
between the heads of state of two superpowers:
his mate Buzz Aldrin, the second ambassador
from planet earth, leaves the lunar module,
unfortunately against the light, so that he is in the
shade. Format and exposure all unclear. But
Armstrong is not put off. He clicks – another
direct hit! And then he clicks again – perfect once
more.
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby identity » Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:34 pm

https://pseudoastro.wordpress.com/2009/07/17/the-apollo-moon-hoax-lunar-reconnaissance-orbiter-images-apollo-landing-sites/

From the comments:

The problem is that every single claim raised by conspiracy theorists has been answered. Bart Sibrel, Ralph Rene, and the others have been told many many times why the crosshairs disappear behind bright objects, or why the van Allen belt radiation isn’t a problem, yet they refuse to acknowledge any rebuttals and continue with the same claims. To me, that is not having a “large mind” but rather a very small one.

To name another conspiracy — how many times do the “9/11 Truthers” have to be told that, no, the steel did not melt to bring down the twin towers, rather it was heated to a temperature where it lost nearly all of its tensile strength. That is solid chemistry, physics, engineering, what-have-you, yet they refuse to acknowledge the reality of that and move on to something else.

Comment by astrostu206265 — July 18, 2009 @ 11:15 am


9/11 Conspiracy obviously idiotic = Moon Hoax equally idiotic? (Because SCIENCE!)
We should never forget Galileo being put before the Inquisition.
It would be even worse if we allowed scientific orthodoxy to become the Inquisition.

Richard Smith, Editor in Chief of the British Medical Journal 1991-2004,
in a published letter to Nature
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby chump » Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:17 pm

Image
(link)
Last edited by chump on Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby 82_28 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:31 am

I'm not gonna lock the thread or nuthin' but as I have also waded in with the Moon hoax debate I still want to remind everyone that this was started about the odd astronomical/planetary origins of the Moon. Again, I started this thing about 10 years ago with that in mind. But carry on. But also keep in mind the Apollo topic was not this long living thread's intent. Maybe everything is pertinent. Not up for me to say.
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby RocketMan » Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:04 am

82_28 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:31 am wrote:I'm not gonna lock the thread or nuthin' but as I have also waded in with the Moon hoax debate I still want to remind everyone that this was started about the odd astronomical/planetary origins of the Moon. Again, I started this thing about 10 years ago with that in mind. But carry on. But also keep in mind the Apollo topic was not this long living thread's intent. Maybe everything is pertinent. Not up for me to say.


That's a valid point. Isn't there a Moon Landing Hoax thread kicking around somewhere here...?
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:03 am

Isn't there a Moon Landing Hoax thread kicking around somewhere here...?


A few more than one, Grizzly: These are the results of searching for all mentions of "Moon Landing Hoax" http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/search.php?keywords=%22Moon+Landing+Hoax%22&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

Not all the results are threads discussing the moon landing "hoax" though some do. I'm sure searching different but related terms would bring additional results not included in my search results, perhaps more on point to better answer your question.
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:25 am

.

I already suggested moving the 'moon hoax' related content in this thread, essentially from page 16 - onward, to a new or existing Moon Hoax thread in order to allow the conversation -- which has been civil, and clearly of interest to quite a few members here -- to continue.

Why is there an allusion to locking this thread when there is a simple solution to resolving this?

Also, Chump: you included 2 very interesting videos on the topic of 'moon hoax' yesterday, and have since edited your post to remove those videos [after 82's post above] and replaced them with a photo instead.

PLEASE do not feel you need to censor yourself here (so long as you're within forum rules, of course).

I only viewed 5 min of one of those videos, and I'm sure others here would be interested in viewing them.

Given the above, I am now formally requesting that a mod simply extract the content in this thread related to 'moon hoax' material to a new/existing proper thread, as it will satisfy the interest of both parties: 82's interest in keeping this thread about 'parking the moon', and the clear interest others have here to continue discussing 'moon hoax' pros/cons, etc.

Once this has been done, Chump can feel free to re-post those videos he shared earlier in the proper moon hoax thread.

Belligerent Savant » Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:57 am wrote:.
Don't be silly, conniption - that's a great link you posted!

Besides, the blame lies squarely on me, as I diverted this thread with a focus on the fake moon landings starting on page 16 [my post on April 30]. Direct any flogging my direction.

I suggest we move all content from ~Page 16 - onward to an existing [or perhaps new] 'moon hoax' thread.

Defer to the current mods to proceed however they deem fit.
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby 82_28 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:36 pm

Given the above, I am now formally requesting that a mod simply extract the content in this thread related to 'moon hoax' material to a new/existing proper thread, as it will satisfy the interest of both parties: 82's interest in keeping this thread about 'parking the moon', and the clear interest others have here to continue discussing 'moon hoax' pros/cons, etc.


Oh god. I ain't getting paid for this. I'm not moving shit first because that would be hard to do and second I don't want to interrupt the natural flow. It is what it is. It's just a conversation to me and shit comes up in conversations. Everything is still interesting so far.

That said I want to re-point out that this new NOVA series is excellent.

I can't link directly to it it seems. But just search for NOVA+ The Planets. Well a link that will stand the test of time I will include with "The Planets" series being active as of now.

https://www.pbs.org/show/nova/episodes/
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:06 pm

.

1. You're not the only mod; Elvis can move it if he opts to do so.

2. If you dont want to interrupt the 'flow', stop mentioning the initial intent of this thread as a means to passive-aggressively curtail moon hoax content. It's at least the 2nd time you mentioned it.

3. You indicate that you dont want to interrupt 'the natural flow' and yet you are doing just that by alluding to locking this thread.

I requested the content to be moved ONLY because of your commentary inferring that it doesnt belong in this thread (which in turn caused at least 1 member, chump, to retract moon hoax content).

It's quite simple: we move hoax stuff to a new thread or the hoax stuff can continue to be posted here without any additional inferences or allusions that such content may lead to locking the thread.

If I had the ability to move the content, I would. I can't.



[Yes, i get this is all quite trivial in the grand scheme of things -- most online forums are.]
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby 82_28 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:18 pm

Bro, it's just a reminder of why I started it ten years ago. Well before getting roped into modding by stillrobertpaulsen asking me to help him out. I am not anyone's professor or boss of shit. I am only here to break shit up should it occur. In the meantime, I will remind away. It is my OP thus that is the only platform as why I take the reminding stance. I have very little powers other than being able to click a few extra buttons which I have not done. The conversation drifted on its own. I'm not going to control a conversation unless it gets nasty.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby chump » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:53 pm

I included a link in my post above.
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Re: Who Parked The Moon?

Postby Luther Blissett » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:57 pm

The moon is 85 million years younger than previously thought

It turns out the moon is a little younger than scientists previously thought — about 85 million years younger, to be precise.

In a new study, researchers at the German Aerospace Center found out that, not only did the moon once have a massive, fiery magma ocean, but our rocky satellite also formed later than scientists previously expected.

Billions of years ago, a Mars-size protoplanet smashed into the young Earth and, amid the debris and cosmic rubble, a new rocky body formed — our moon. In this new work, the researchers reconstructed the timeline of the moon's formation. While scientists have previously thought that this moon-forming collision happened 4.51 billion years ago, the new work pegged the moon's birth at only 4.425 billion years ago.

To determine this 85-million-year error in the moon's age, the team used mathematical models to calculate the composition of the moon over time. Based on the idea that the moon was host to a massive magma ocean, the researchers calculated how the minerals that formed as the magma cooled solidified changed over time. By following the timeline of the magma ocean, the scientists were able to trace their way back to the moon's formation.

"By comparing the measured composition of the moon's rocks with the predicted composition of the magma ocean from our model, we were able to trace the evolution of the ocean back to its starting point, the time at which the moon was formed," study co-author Sabrina Schwinger, a researcher at the German Aerospace Center, said in a statement.

These findings, which show that the moon formed 4.425 billion years ago (give or take 25 million years), agree with previous research that aligned the moon's formation with the formation of Earth's metallic core, according to the statement.

"This is the first time that the age of the moon can be directly linked to an event that occurred at the very end of the Earth's formation, namely the formation of the core," Thorsten Kleine, a professor at the Institute of Planetology at the University of Münster in Germany, said in the same statement.

These findings were described in a new study published on July 10 in the journal Science Advances.


https://www.livescience.com/moon-85-mil ... ought.html
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