What's the theory that says trauma induces enlightenment?

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Re: What's the theory that says trauma induces enlightenment

Postby FourthBase » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:17 am

82_28 » 26 Sep 2019 05:01 wrote:If you got your answer you were seeking and want to keep this thread alive for everyone's sake, I invite you to rename it. Yes, I am a mod which I just noticed you looked at. I will make no efforts to change anyone's trains of thought and do not do so, but yes, I have that "power". But just tighten it up a bit for the sake of everyone. Or if your train is going a different direction now, start a new thread!

Gatekeeper? Yeah, no. You just changed subjects asking for help and then switched the impetus around. I ain't gonna edit shit. I was only prodding you to make your own choice and I guess I can make mine which is locking this thread. You are still perfectly free to start new ones. Then again, this could just fall off the map. But for continuity's sake, if you got your answer, then you got your answer.


Technically I did get my answer but then a conversation related to the topic of trauma causing enlightenment unfolded: Is trauma okay to some people here if it's sufficiently politically enlightened/ing? As in, it's okay to brainwash teens with music videos about satanic mind control and sex slavery as long as the intent seems generally subversive enough. It's okay for an elite political clique tied to a pedophile ring to flaunt psychotically evil artistic tastes in pedophilia and cannibalism as long as the clique hates Republicans enough.
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Re: What's the theory that says trauma induces enlightenment

Postby FourthBase » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:28 am

If you truly insist on "cleaning up" the title, since I can't edit it now, how about: Is Some Trauma Acceptably Enlightening?

I really can't believe you'd even think of locking this thread. Is it really that busy in here that you'd have to be that diligent about thread drift, when it hasn't even drifted much? Be real. You'd just be censoring me. Why? What is taboo about the subject?
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Re: What's the theory that says trauma induces enlightenment

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:32 am

Iamwhomiam wrote:^^^^ Jack, please edit your quote to exclude your comment from thrulookingglass'. Thanks.


??

I didn't add any comment other than the one word, which was separate.

That word was:

Wow.

thrulookingglass » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:36 pm wrote:How is it that people become so shocked by the violence on fictional tv shows, movies, video games, etc. and completely complacent about the REAL violence involved in the world's militiaries, police forces and even their "God"? What the fuck is Satanism anyhow? Can anyone explain this to me, because according to the Bible Satan and God have a pretty good relationship. Desensitizing one to violence may begin with worshiping a crucifixion or a being who, out of complete anger and rage, drowns an entire planet. If you want to blame anyone for desensitizing YOU to violence, look in the mirror. I'm not worried about Stephen King going on a school shooting rampage. I'm not worried that Rob Zombie is going to saw off people's heads with a chain saw. Even Shakespearean plays offer portrayals of violence. Who weeps for Rosencrantz and Guildenstern? Unreal. Real children dying in Yemen, business as usual. Witchcraft on Sabrina! CALL THE COPS! Scared of five pointed stars with a circle around them, upside down crosses, swastikas, but ready to embrace a being may or may not torture homosexuals forever. Gads! We are the evil force here. Shame on anyone for blaming there errant behaviors on anyone but themselves. Violence solves nothing. Never could. Never will. Fear worship. Too afraid to stand up for whats right. What will the neighbors say when I reject "capitalism"? Comfortable in your current decay. Not my problem. Jesus gonna save it. The egg of torture worship we sit upon is ours to hatch. Righteousness doesn't come from might or fear, it comes by necessity. Archie Bunker made me racist, Jodie Dallas made my son queer, CBS, NBC, and CNN let me know that free market capitalism would free us from sin. Horrific actions destroy grace in the world, not imaginations thereof.

Sammy Davis Jr. was enamored by Satanism for a while. No one is pissing on his grave. Frank Sinatra out and out raped a few women, drugging them before taking advantage of them, but he's still king of the board. It's the queer teletubbies ruining the world, not clandestine military action or simply 'industry'. Sell your soul, the devil spun forth blues music at the crossroads, throw a pinch of salt over your shoulder, ouija boards are gateways to demons, self flagellations, mock crucifixions (because one wasn't bad enough), don't forget your Sharia law fart cleansing rituals because 'ol Satan made shit stink too.

Keeping religion immune from criticism is both unwarranted and dangerous. Unless we are willing to expose religious irrationality whenever it arises, we will encourage irrational public policy and promote ignorance over education for our children. - Scientific American, LM Krauss


When will we admit that we're the monsters we've been looking for? Name me one day and age where humanity didn't rule through violence and heartless retributions? Violence in video games? Anyone actually read the bible? When God burned to death 250 men for burning incense in Numbers 16.35? Drown them in the flood or burnt to death in Sodom and Gomorrah? How many first-born Egyptian children did he kill? The swords most harmful end isn't that which mars flesh, but that which wields it as a punitive measure in faith that evil can be used to correct evil.

Violence isn't on television. Its right outside your door.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: What's the theory that says trauma induces enlightenment

Postby Belligerent Savant » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:50 am

.

Agree with 4thBase's sentiment above. This thread is worth keeping active. See Thrulookingglass' insightful free association above as Exhibit A.

The conversation has been civil to this point; I'm similarly confused as to why there was an indication towards locking it.
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Re: What's the theory that says trauma induces enlightenment

Postby cptmarginal » Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:06 am

I'm not sure what the term you are looking for is, and I know that this isn't it. But still it is worth mentioning here that purposely inducing trauma for the purpose of attainment is part of what various Nine Angles affiliated groups talk about. Of course you could just take away all references to Myatt or Satanism and this same philosophy would be seen as quite obvious and generic. I mean, it's not like any experienced person would disagree with the points made about adversity in the quoted section below. And it is also worth mentioning that I do not believe that there is any sort of sinister reality behind the scenes of these groups, instead there is "just" garden-variety abuse like you will find behind closed doors in every community in America (the world?)

As Myatt has explained, pathei mathos – πάθει μάθος – is a Greek term (used by Aeschylus in his Agamemnon) which can be variously interpreted as meaning learning from adversity, or wisdom arises from personal suffering, and/or personal experience is the genesis of true wisdom.

These, taken together, impute the correct esoteric meaning and O9A usage, which is that wisdom [1] – one goal of the Adept [2]; acquiring a true, balanced, understanding; the dis-covering/revealing of Reality – has its genesis in the combination of: (a) personal suffering, (b) a learning from adversity, (c) the development of certain Occult skills, and (d) practical personal experience. That is, that all these diverse experiences are meant by our use of the term, and therefore that all such experiences are necessary for interior, esoteric, change within the individual. Not just ‘personal practical experience’; not just Occult skills, and not just a ‘learning from adversity/challenges’, but also and importantly a learning from personal suffering: from grief, severe trauma (physical and/or emotional), personal loss, and an encounter (or many encounters) with the imminent possibility of one’s own death.

...

Therefore show me someone claiming to be wise, claiming to have gone beyond the stage of Adept, who is younger than a certain age, who has not endured grief, severe trauma (physical and/or emotional), personal loss, and an encounter (or many encounters) with the imminent possibility of their own death, and I shall show you a liar, a fraud, a charlatan, a poseur, or someone so deluded they actually believe the fantasy they have created for themselves and maybe also for others.
The new way of thinking is precisely delineated by what it is not.
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Re: What's the theory that says trauma induces enlightenment

Postby cptmarginal » Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:08 am

elfismiles » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:15 am wrote:I don't know of any term for it but Jason (Jasun) Horsley (aka Aeolus Kephas, Auticulture, Jason Wynd, Guruilla, etc.) has touched on this idea (against it - calling out perceived purveyors / endorsers of it such as Strieber, Kripal, etc.) here and elsewhere. Strieber has suggested it in his exploration of his believed MKultra experiences in San Antonio. :shrug:


I would hasten to add that guruilla's most recent book, The Vice of Kings: How Socialism, Occultism, and the Sexual Revolution Engineered a Culture of Abuse, thanks this forum in the acknowledgements! Haven't purchased it yet, but I was reading the preview pages; it looks great.

(Also a big fan of Miguel Conner, Gordon White & Chris Knowles... err... Aeon Byte, Rune Soup & Secret Sun)

elfismiles, I am ashamed to admit that I still have not read UFOs: Reframing the Debate, the book you contributed to.
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Re: What's the theory that says trauma induces enlightenment

Postby elfismiles » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:53 am

cptmarginal » 26 Sep 2019 13:08 wrote:
elfismiles » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:15 am wrote:I don't know of any term for it but Jason (Jasun) Horsley (aka Aeolus Kephas, Auticulture, Jason Wynd, Guruilla, etc.) has touched on this idea (against it - calling out perceived purveyors / endorsers of it such as Strieber, Kripal, etc.) here and elsewhere. Strieber has suggested it in his exploration of his believed MKultra experiences in San Antonio. :shrug:


<snip>

elfismiles, I am ashamed to admit that I still have not read UFOs: Reframing the Debate, the book you contributed to.


No worries - it aint earth-shaking / reality-altering or nuthin ... I could send you a link to my google docs version - not that I'd want to encourage anyone NOT to buy the book but ... a few of the essays in it are available online:

https://mysteriousuniverse.org/2017/06/ ... roduction/

http://www.susanstclair.com/index.php/a ... ogyandufos

https://web.archive.org/web/20180817011737/http://highstrangenessshow.com/almost-everything-you-think-you-know-about-flying-saucers-is-wrong/

https://www.dailygrail.com/2018/03/anarchy-in-the-ufo/

https://www.joshuacutchin.com/single-po ... aterialism

... and the conclusion of my essay (which is really just a condensed / rewritten transcript of 2 lectures of mine refocused on 2 aspects of UFOs) ...
https://smileslewis.com/words/militant- ... chantment/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnY4kWSmSKY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOsD-Xy5avY

Now, back to topic.
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Re: What's the theory that says trauma induces enlightenment

Postby 82_28 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:32 pm

FourthBase » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:28 am wrote:If you truly insist on "cleaning up" the title, since I can't edit it now, how about: Is Some Trauma Acceptably Enlightening?

I really can't believe you'd even think of locking this thread. Is it really that busy in here that you'd have to be that diligent about thread drift, when it hasn't even drifted much? Be real. You'd just be censoring me. Why? What is taboo about the subject?


I said that anyone is free to start a new thread at any time. Once I saw "pizzagate" get brought up I simply thought that the subjects were changing. Trust me, I do not change shit and nor do I view myself as some "superuser" who can wield a capricious cudgel. And no, I would not have been censoring you because locking a thread just means it's still there but there are no more mnemonics to do it justice. It was in interest of you receiving the answer in your quest and if so (though I don't quite know how to do this and I don't think I would want to) it can be merged.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: What's the theory that says trauma induces enlightenment

Postby Cordelia » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:01 pm

82_28 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:32 pm wrote:
Once I saw "pizzagate" get brought up I simply thought that the subjects were changing.


I didn't know that bringing up "pizzagate" is banned and a reason for a thread to be locked on RI. wtf?
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Re: What's the theory that says trauma induces enlightenment

Postby 82_28 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:22 pm

Cordelia » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:01 pm wrote:
82_28 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:32 pm wrote:
Once I saw "pizzagate" get brought up I simply thought that the subjects were changing.


I didn't know that bringing up "pizzagate" is banned and a reason for a thread to be locked on RI. wtf?


That wasn't the original purpose of the thread. 4B was looking for a term he had forgotten. And yeah, "wtf" indeed. I have explained and also passively requested or even cajoled to just start a new thread. Dude, I am no martinet. All topics to me are fair game. However, sometimes people (have come to even me) to get shit in shape so they can search for some long lost link or comment. If that thread drifts, so be it, but it is hard to change. I have been asked to yoink someone's history completely. I cannot do that because it would change the historical flow of conversation and would be really time consuming to do so. I'm not ever going to revise the meager history we share here but if one wants to make a point, start a new thread! That's it.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: What's the theory that says trauma induces enlightenment

Postby FourthBase » Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:31 pm

Do you really not see the connection I've made between the evil idea that trauma is enlightening with the uncomfortable idea that some people act as if they must think some trauma is enlightened or enlightening enough to be above suspicion? The related but separate examples I picked (and I think I have the prerogative to pick a personally motivating example if I want) argue that parapolitical lefties are so emotionally/artistically/politically attached to subversive edgelord deviant culture that they've uncharacteristically ditched two related but separate things:

1) Pizzagate, the rotten bulk of which no one here can honestly say has been "debunked", as if gatekeeping like that were ever a normal thing for RigInt to do in such a case.

2) The pop cultural territory of Vigilant Citizen. Regardless of how bogus his interpretations are, lefty conspiracy theorists like this board's main constituency used to at least have their own insightfully paranoid theories about the insane shit located in that territory. And now nobody except fundies and alt-right scum gives a solitary shit, which ought to be felt by most people here as a deeply shameful surrender of critical attentiveness and sacrifice of moral consistency in order to preserve the personal thrill of satisfying entertainment needs or the collective imperative of pursuing ideological victory, but hey, maybe you just can't make a man understand something if his ego depends on him not understanding it, even or especially an egoless spelunker of countercultural truths whose identity is tied up in books and albums and movies and other art that are heavy on the sick and twisted shit. Why, god forbid, then that favorite shit might be spoiled, and even worse he or she might feel implicated!
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Re: What's the theory that says trauma induces enlightenment

Postby 82_28 » Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:59 pm

4B, I am only helping others who like to use this database of yammering for other searchable purposes. It's not a full on cascade of requests that come across my radar, but I think it is solid to just be content with the answers you got and move to another OP, thus your points become more poignant, memorable, searchable in the sense of whatever research or whatever the other members do. This ain't no argument and I am glad you're here but I am not a god. But, I am still I guess supposed to keep shit in the right "Dewey Decimal System" as per the larger algorithms that rule us. That's it.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: What's the theory that says trauma induces enlightenment

Postby Iamwhomiam » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:39 pm

Jack, I have no idea why I wrote that. So, yeah, Wow! Please accept my apologies for my misreading and false claim.

4th Base, thank you for your straightforward responses. I'm not remembering all that much these days and seems today I've begun imagining things that don't exist. However I do remember Tony Podesta, mostly because his last name is the same as my sister's high school English teacher, but also because his name came up to supposedly lend credibility to pizzagate by being a collector of art of a peculiar sort of erotica.

No, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, never have been. I do have my unique take on OBL's icing and why, and also another I've not shared about the Vegas shooter and who really did the shooting. But I don't mind you calling me one.

I feel relieved you're purpose for asking your question was for writing fiction and not because you've taken up a new, dark hobby. I think it's great you're taking a writing course. Just don't freak out your prof too much!

Your last paragraph I'll quote again:

I didn't politicize abuse three years ago, was the problem. I was equally horrified by the ghoulish progressives of Pizzagate. But almost everyone here bailed on their RigInt spidey senses in favor of tribal loyalty.


No, you should never politicize abuse. By doing so your message is changed to another subject, distracting focus away from abuse to focus upon politics or a political party, which is misguided, as abuse is apolitical. Lastly, you've got it wrong. No one bailed on their "Rigint spidey senses in favor of tribal loyalty" at least among those with such sense to discern fact from fiction. Though tribalism was demonstrated by some who were convinced Pizzagate was a hangout for Democratic pedophiles who tortured children by subjecting them to all sorts of abuse in the pizza shop's non-existent basement.

If you review those threads, you'll see those who saw through the phony meme, those you claim went tribal, were critical because of the harm false claims like pizzagate cause real investigations into allegations of such abuse.

FourthBase » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:44 am wrote:
Which Republican lobbyist did you have in mind, Fourth Base? There are so may fitting your description, you've got to narrow it down a bit. You know something about Bannon that we don't? Or were you referring to Manafort? But brag about their Pass property, they do, and about the killing they're making by fracking it. And they much prefer the moving picture to the tortured still-life, so being entertained by watching snuff films is much more their style.


Tony Podesta.

Remember him?

But then again, I'm not a conspiracy theorist; I know conspiracies exist and are quite numerous and common.


Come on, we're all conspiracy theorists here.

But let's get to the point of why you initiated this particular thread. It seems you were looking for a term to use to disparage left leaning folks you communicate with via FB. What is your interest in dissociative states induced thru trauma? Have you become masochistic or sadist?


I was writing a paper for a community college science fiction class about the movie Serenity and couldn't remember the term, is all.

I mean its pretty strange to ask for help and then besmirch those who have tried to help you. Ultimately, as much as I love you, shame on you! Do not politicize abuse. We all know abusers belong to every party that exists. They're all bad people, no matter how high their perversion gets them.


I didn't politicize abuse three years ago, was the problem. I was equally horrified by the ghoulish progressives of Pizzagate. But almost everyone here bailed on their RigInt spidey senses in favor of tribal loyalty.
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Re: What's the theory that says trauma induces enlightenment

Postby FourthBase » Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:06 pm

82_28 » 26 Sep 2019 16:59 wrote:4B, I am only helping others who like to use this database of yammering for other searchable purposes. It's not a full on cascade of requests that come across my radar, but I think it is solid to just be content with the answers you got and move to another OP, thus your points become more poignant, memorable, searchable in the sense of whatever research or whatever the other members do. This ain't no argument and I am glad you're here but I am not a god. But, I am still I guess supposed to keep shit in the right "Dewey Decimal System" as per the larger algorithms that rule us. That's it.


Okay...

So...put "Pizzagate" and "Vigilant Citizen" in parentheses in the title? Or not. I still don't get it. If someone searches for a keyword about something in this thread, they will get this thread in the search results. Why is that not enough? It's an organic conversation with a consistent theme. When did that become off topic on the General Discussion board? If you lock it, I'll just start a new thread that not only links to this one but copies and pastes every post of mine in full. Why is that better? Because the title isn't narrowly related to the exact examples brought up? I think it has more to do with your idea of what "ugliness" is. Whatever. So what would you have me title a new thread, if you're going to force me to do that work? At least give me a pre-approved name so I don't have to repost that thread, too.
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Re: What's the theory that says trauma induces enlightenment

Postby FourthBase » Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:26 pm

"a peculiar sort of erotica"

That's precisely what I mean. There's no way in hell you would be euphemizing Podesta's tastes if he were a Republican heavyweight. His interest in and shameless flaunting of (which raises the question of what he's not proud to show the world) art where murdered children are arranged as if by a serial killer (not one but two, in a corner where guests are invited to sit down and stare at these snuffed kids), an infant in diapers being menacingly pinched by a stranger (prominently featured in his main stairway, and produced by Anna Gaskell, if anyone here remembers her), naked teens (a series of photos adorning entire walls), and a floating decapitated corpse (by the prestigious Bourgeois but still a decapitated corpse all the same, positioned above where his family and friends and their children might eat a bowl of cereal) would be strong presumptive evidence that the Republican heavyweight is an evil, evil creep. But for a progressive like Podesta, the default is just that it's...peculiar. Because hey, you know plenty of progressives with tastes that dark and they're good people fighting the good fight so there must be an innocent explanation, right? Except your progressive friends with dark tastes aren't intimately connected with a president who frequently flew on a billionaire pedophile pimp's private jet. The ring supposedly operating from the basement at Comet is just one notorious part of the Pizzagate theory, the part people use to discredit the rest. It's like 9/11 conspiracy theories all being discredited by claiming they're all about the no-planes scenario. That would suck, right? Same thing.
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