London Bridge, terrorism related shooting

[MacCruiskeen]

video, 7 secs:

JamesHeartfield@JamesHeartfield

Three men take Usman Khan down - with a fire extinguisher and a Narwhal tusk

https://twitter.com/i/status/1200688631750549504

[Harvey]

Sorry Jack. You're just wrong. But as you say, the videos are the least interesting aspect to this. (Sorry, fire extinguisher, not hydrant.)

1.jpg

[Cordelia]

Foreshortening. All other details, location, lighting conditions, time (shadows) are exact.

Considering your posted artwork; keen eye, draftsman skills, and attention to detail, I trust this assessment...

I don't see anything that weird in the circumstances of this man's shooting, but I am absolutely fucking floored by the circumstances behind it.

The alleged perp was a rehabilitated terrorist who came from a conference about rehabilitating terrorists and then he killed one of the men who worked with him during his rehabilitation process. That is some gob-smacking shit!

Gonna take a harder pass at this tomorrow but there would appear to be Quite A Fucking Bit going on here, all in all.

Another participant, fwiw...

Convicted murderer on day release was hero who tackled London terrorist

by Ellie Bufkin
November 30, 2019 07:07 PM

The family of a woman brutally murdered is furious after learning that one of the men being hailed as a hero in the Friday terrorist knife attack on London Bridge was the murderer they thought was in jail.

Amanda Champion, a disabled 21-year-old woman, was killed by James Ford in 2003. Ford ran into Amanda in the woods in Kent and proceeded to strangle her and slit her throat, according to the BBC. Amanda's body was discovered three weeks later, badly decomposed. Ford was discovered as the prime suspect after he made several calls to a charity confessing the crime and threatening to kill himself.

Ford, now 42, was sentenced to life imprisonment for the crime in 2004 with the judge recommending that he serve a minimum of 15 years in prison. Ford was free on prison day release on Friday when he witnessed Usman Khan violently attack pedestrians on London Bridge with a knife. Ford and several other people intervened in the attack to subdue Khan until police arrived and gunned him down. At the time of his arrest, police described Ford's actions as "motiveless crime and a senseless crime” and described him personally as a “very dangerous man."

Khan, 28, was also out of prison serving only six years of a nearly two-decade sentence after being convicted of "terror-related charges" in 2012. He and Ford attended the same prison sponsored educational event the day of the attack.

A police liaison contacted Amanda's family to inform them that Ford had been spotted on television with the other bystanders being hailed as heroes. "He is not a hero. He is a murderer out on day release, which us as a family didn’t know anything about. He murdered a disabled girl," Amanda's aunt Angela Cox said to the Daily Mail. "He is not a hero, absolutely not. I don’t care what he’s done today, he’s a murderer."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... -terrorist

[Elvis]

The fire extinguishers in fact serve as a scale, and one wall's segments are much longer. I don't see the foreshortening effect making them the same, as other do.

The big problem is, what is the origin of the "getting up" video clip? Where is the video that comes before it, and after it? Or did someone film for only five seconds? Who?

[JackRiddler]

The reports matter.

[Harvey]

The fire extinguishers in fact serve as a scale, and one wall's segments are much longer. I don't see the foreshortening effect making them the same, as other do.

The big problem is, what is the origin of the "getting up" video clip? Where is the video that comes before it, and after it? Or did someone film for only five seconds? Who?

It's mainly because the image with the police photographer is taken with a large lens from a fairly high vantage, higher than a double decker bus for example. This collapses the sense of scale considerably. Notice the horizontal planes (along the railing) show little perspective or foreshortening (this is a much steeper angle than either street level or from a vehicle) but the vertical planes appear substantially narrowed. Essentially because the view is much closer to the vertical plane of the barrier than the horizontal plane of the street. I don't have the technical language but that's the gist of it.

The 'sit up' video can still be a set up, but if so it wasn't done on the night, presumably some time before at a similar time of day. And the video does show some signs of editing.

(Edited to improve clarity.)

[Harvey]

Did anybody see any images of the attacker before he arrives on the bridge?

[MacCruiskeen]

Why did they rearrange his limbs?





Why did they shoot him dead at all?

... Much is being made of the “convicted terrorist walking the streets” narrative, but the truth of the case is that Khan had never actually hurt anyone. Or attempted to hurt anyone. Or acted with violent intent in any way. The BBC made it clear, at the time, that there were no weapons, or bomb parts, found at any of the men’s houses, and no evidence they had made any efforts to purchase such.

Under current UK “anti-terror” legislation “intent and determination” is enough to be convicted of “planning a terrorist attack”. Which is to say, spitballing, hypotheticals and talking shit to your friends can get you 10 years in prison.

It is interesting to note that even the BBC, at the time, considered these men more likely “fantasists” than threats. The judges sentencing is no longer available online.

We know that Khan, and his 9 co-defendants, were under surveillance by MI5 for two whole years before being arrested. We are not told how they came to be under this surveillance, except a vague term “concerns were raised in the community”. ...

https://off-guardian.org/2019/12/02/lon ... narrative/

[FourthBase]

Why did they rearrange his limbs?





Why did they shoot him dead at all?

... Much is being made of the “convicted terrorist walking the streets” narrative, but the truth of the case is that Khan had never actually hurt anyone. Or attempted to hurt anyone. Or acted with violent intent in any way. The BBC made it clear, at the time, that there were no weapons, or bomb parts, found at any of the men’s houses, and no evidence they had made any efforts to purchase such.

Under current UK “anti-terror” legislation “intent and determination” is enough to be convicted of “planning a terrorist attack”. Which is to say, spitballing, hypotheticals and talking shit to your friends can get you 10 years in prison.

It is interesting to note that even the BBC, at the time, considered these men more likely “fantasists” than threats. The judges sentencing is no longer available online.

We know that Khan, and his 9 co-defendants, were under surveillance by MI5 for two whole years before being arrested. We are not told how they came to be under this surveillance, except a vague term “concerns were raised in the community”. ...

https://off-guardian.org/2019/12/02/lon ... narrative/

I'm guessing they would have rearranged his arms, at some point long before the photographer started pics, because of the suicide vest. Lifted them up to inspect it or remove it, put them back down in a different way. Something like that. (Or, as video seems to suggest, he wasn't completely dead and he himself moved between those two photos, until they assassinated him.)

As for the guy's dangerousness...yes, talking shit with your friends can absolutely get you prison, if what you're talking shit about is planning a violent attack, and yes, he seems pretty fucking dangerous in retrospect, since he wound up stabbing people to death and pretended to have a suicide vest, which absolutely warrants shooting him dead. (Unless he was already well under control and not as dead as they expected and they had to shoot him again to cover something up.)

[Grizzly]

This is pretty damn interesting, if slow starting out. Hang with it though, it's worth the time.

It's a Lodge thing.

as wrote Wombaticus Rex earlier, this certainly speaks to that... and much more.

https://www.pscp.tv/w/1eaJbAVAMBoGX
David Hawkins – London Bridge: Random Terror or Targeted SERCO / Fishmonger guild Hit? Take 2

What's the difference in a lodge vs a guild ?

[Harvey]

Grizzly, that is interesting and some very good 'common sense' observations.

[lucky]

Grizzly- the link you posted is really eye opening and could lead one down several rabbit holes - the idea that the circus that played out on the bridge was a 'hit' is something i would never have thought if it wern't for this. Im guessing your question on Lodge or Guild was rhetorical if not a Guild is a medieval collective of trades people, a lodge, well you know

[Wombaticus Rex]

What's the difference in a lodge vs a guild ?

If you and God will forgive, it's .... really just a matter of degrees.

Thank you for the interesting link.

[cptmarginal]

Tremendously important and yet only warranting a trifling look here and there, as a sort of curiosity:

BBC - London's secret billion-pound guilds - 12 February 2019

See:

Rune Soup - THE MONEY: ARCHONOLOGY (PART 4)



Not that I am saying any of this is actually specifically relevant to this incident - just providing a friendly information service. Certainly it is germane to many other topics discussed frequently on this board:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiona_Woo ... xual_Abuse

[Elvis]

I'm more open now to the possibility of foreshortening as explanation for the seeming differences in those videos & stills. Some kinda forensic measuring tools might help...I dunno if this incident is worth the work, but if anyone can do it, I'd be interested.