Coming Soon - War with Iran?

[Laodicean]

I will waste no more time with you. Just fuck off, you loathsome, flamebaiting, mass-murder-fantasising, deranged and criminally-stupid fascist prick,

Just for the record, then, in Mac's universe, even if the Allies had a nuke ready to destroy Berlin and end the Third Reich early and stop the Holocaust and save tens of millions of lives, he would refuse to use it, because...I don't know why. Aesthetics?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6wvydTn0DY

Dresden was a war crime.

[Harvey]

^Thanks for that.

FB could read John Hersey's account of Hiroshima (if he hasn't already) mercifully short but haunting.

[FourthBase]

I will waste no more time with you. Just fuck off, you loathsome, flamebaiting, mass-murder-fantasising, deranged and criminally-stupid fascist prick,

Just for the record, then, in Mac's universe, even if the Allies had a nuke ready to destroy Berlin and end the Third Reich early and stop the Holocaust and save tens of millions of lives, he would refuse to use it, because...I don't know why. Aesthetics?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6wvydTn0DY

Dresden was a war crime.

What does Dresden have to do with the nuked-Berlin hypothetical? What say ye: Save 50 million with one nuke in Berlin, or nah?

And if Dresden had had the effect of immediately ending the Nazi regime, it absolutely would've been worth it. The problem was that it wasn't effective enough. So it was ultimately a waste of life. Which may make it a war crime, in hindsight. At the time, though? No. If the Allies refrained from attacking cities, that only would've meant the Nazis got to kill more. Lesser of evils.

Y'all do realize that excessive sympathy for Dresden is a hallmark of fascists, right? I guess the far left likes magnifying it, too. Another instance of red-brown overlap.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were necessary, proportional to the lives saved (actually a bargain, gruesomely), and effective. I've read enough. No need to read more. But I'll read the Hersey book someday. As an obligation. The thing is, as horrific as the bombs were, we'd need to be even more horrified by the millions of people who would've died without those bombs. At least one million, anyway. Dying in a regular old fire is horrific, too. So's being shot in the face. So's being starved to death. So's drowning or being eaten by sharks.

A nuked Berlin in 1941 would've been similarly necessary, proportional, and -- if it ended the war -- effective. I cannot believe anyone here would sincerely oppose it.

[RocketMan]

FourthBase, just shut up. You are an ethno-nationalistic, US imperialistic, mass-killing advocating far right edgelord. It's very comforting to know that people like you have our backs here in Europe, GUARANTEEING OUR SAFETY here in the WEST. Except if a few million of us happen to need killing so that your coddled fucking existence over there where no wars (except the genocidal Indian Wars) have been fought since the 1860s can be perpetuated (or whatever the fuck your delusional thinking is).

In the words of McCruiskeen: FUCK OFF. Tosser.

And this is really the cherry on the top of the cake.

I cannot believe anyone here would sincerely oppose it.

D'you ever wonder in your solipsistic wankery that there MIGHT be some people from, like, GERMANY reading this board? Fucking airhead.

[Elvis]

I've been watching presstv, Iranian state TV, lots of good interviews, including Americans (Ray McGovern and Cindy Sheehan were on) and live video of events.

They're pretty careful to name Trump as the perp, no "death to America" stuff, plus they make clear that a) the leaders won't do anything rash, and b) they won't target American civilians, only military targets.

https://www.presstv.com/Live

[Elvis]

FourthBase, we're concerned for you, why don't you take a chill pill for a couple of days. This is looking a lot like trolling.

[coffin_dodger]

Maybe this general was a fly in the ointment that needed removing, to further a specific plan. We live in a commercialised world - deals to be done, power and influence to be gained, agendas targetted and waiting to be met - perhaps he in stood the way. The global top echelon are now in such lockstep and carry on regardless of the masses - their tears for a popular hero in one country mean nothing, elsewhere. This may be how warfare is 'fought' now - remove the troublesome and conflicting individual and everything continues to plan. No threat of a world war - because the world is controlled by a single unit - but always the fear, to keep the unwary in line, generated easily by those who know the reality.

After all, who would want to inherit a radiated and inhospitable wasteland? They may be shrewd, conniving and predatorial human beings - this doesn't mean they are insane.

[RocketMan]

Maybe this general was a fly in the ointment that needed removing, to further a specific plan. We live in a commercialised world - deals to be done, power and influence to be gained, agendas targetted and waiting to be met - perhaps he in stood the way. The global top echelon are now in such lockstep and carry on regardless of the masses - their tears for a popular hero in one country mean nothing, elsewhere. This may be how warfare is 'fought' now - remove the troublesome and conflicting individual and everything continues to plan. No threat of a world war - because the world is controlled by a single unit - but always the fear, to keep the unwary in line, generated easily by those who know the reality.

After all, who would want to inherit a radiated and inhospitable wasteland? They may be shrewd, conniving and predatorial human beings - this doesn't mean they are insane.

That's a pretty chilling goddamn vision... But still, I doubt even Suleimani was that singularly important. Depends of course on how collegial the leadership of the Al-Quds force is. Hell, even Apple managed to trudge along with the notoriously dictatorial and secretive Steve Jobs gone. But he did have time to arrange for a transition.

[FourthBase]

FourthBase, we're concerned for you, why don't you take a chill pill for a couple of days. This is looking a lot like trolling.

No, it was a little bit like trolling, to the extent that holding up an exaggerated mirror constitutes trolling. I'm concerned for you all. This is supposed to be an anti-fascist board? Then why is it okay to sound like the Ayatollah? Why is unremitting antisemitism "anti-Zionism" okay? Why is it okay to uncritically transmit Putin propaganda? Why is it bad to wish the Nazis had been defeated early by a nuclear bomb?

Is "anti-fascist board" really just code for "anti-American and anti-Israel board", and fascism is cool as long as it's directed against America and Israel? I hope not. You gonna suspend me for challenging the board's anti-fascist cred because your definition of anti-fascism doesn't allow for the irony of yourselves unwittingly supporting fascist entities and spreading fascist memes?

[FourthBase]

I've been watching presstv, Iranian state TV, lots of good interviews, including Americans (Ray McGovern and Cindy Sheehan were on) and live video of events.

They're pretty careful to name Trump as the perp, no "death to America" stuff, plus they make clear that a) the leaders won't do anything rash, and b) they won't target American civilians, only military targets.

https://www.presstv.com/Live

Unbelievable.

Is there any way to report you?

[FourthBase]

FourthBase, just shut up. You are an ethno-nationalistic, US imperialistic, mass-killing advocating far right edgelord.

Ethno? No. Where you getting that from? Your desperate imagination? Not far right, either. Not even right. Not advocating mass-killing, either. Just weighing the brutal math of how much mass-killing is worth it to stop even worse mass-killing. Not an edgelord, unless you think that somehow includes edge-case thinking for the sake of clarifying principles. So, then...nationalist? I guess, if a preference for my own country makes me that. US imperialist? If the alternative is Russian-Chinese-Iranian imperialist, sure, I guess I have to be. You in favor of the alternative? Somehow if I were an Iranian nationalist right now, I doubt you'd care. In fact, Alice is an Egyptian nationalist, and you all adore her. And of course if I were arguing for the worldwide spread of Communism that'd be cool, too, because that not only isn't a form of imperialism it's somehow the opposite.

It's very comforting to know that people like you have our backs here in Europe, GUARANTEEING OUR SAFETY here in the WEST. Except if a few million of us happen to need killing so that your coddled fucking existence over there where no wars (except the genocidal Indian Wars) have been fought since the 1860s can be perpetuated (or whatever the fuck your delusional thinking is).

If your country hypothetically elects Nazis who launch attacks on America that kill 10,000 of us, then yeah, I hypothetically don't care if stopping those Nazis requires killing 100,000 of you. Are you suggesting, by implication, that WWII shouldn't have been fought? Should the US have stayed home during WWII? Maybe you'd have preferred that, if it meant more power for the Soviet Union? Is that what this is about?

In the words of McCruiskeen: FUCK OFF. Tosser.

No warning to chill from the mod. Curious.

And this is really the cherry on the top of the cake.

I cannot believe anyone here would sincerely oppose it.

D'you ever wonder in your solipsistic wankery that there MIGHT be some people from, like, GERMANY reading this board? Fucking airhead.

It's supposed to matter that you're from Germany? That's enough of a reason to oppose ending the Nazi regime early and stopping the Holocaust and saving millions of Jewish lives and saving millions of Russian lives and millions of German lives and...wait, oh yeah...how could you, as a German, not support saving millions of German lives? You'd oppose that hypothetical 1941 Berlin bomb, and doom millions of fellow Germans to death? Hmm. Does not compute.

EDIT: Unless...you're the solipsistic one?

"Gentlemen, this bomb could take out the entire Nazi hierarchy and save 50 million lives."

"But sir, innocent RocketMan Sr. would die in the process."

"Oh god, not him! Dammit. We can't use it, then."

Sorry, but if you're innocently standing next to Hitler while Allies are trying to explode him to death to stop the war and save tens of millions of non-Nazis, your life is pretty expendable. Are you so narcissistic that you would save Hitler and doom tens of millions to death in order to save yourself?

[MacCruiskeen]

If I were Iran, and if I were a devious son of a bitch, I'd hire Sunnis as a proxy and pray to Allah that there's no proof discovered.

If I were Iran, and if I were a devious son of a bitch, I'd deploy an Iranian agent fluent in teenage American edgelordism to post snickering fascist flamebait to English-language internet fora under the username "FourthBase". That would be a highly effective means of spreading anti-American propaganda. I would get this "FourthBase" character to defend the mass murders of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I would get him to fantasise about (and wish for) even more nuclear destruction, in Europe and elsewhere. I would ensure that both the style and substance of his posts were maximally creepy, arrogant and obnoxious. This artificial edgelord named "FourthBase" would go a long way towards persuading every last doubter that many Americans are indeed stupid, vicious, brutal and ugly, and that the USA is a very major obstacle to the survival of a habitable planet.


My Lai ("Sucks about that Full Spectrum Dominance? Get used to it.")

But that would mean X number of dead innocent people in Y country? So. They're not Americans. I'm a chauvinist, yep. I think the lives of my fellow Americans are more important. Important enough to kill a disproportionate number of other nationalities in order to save. Not sure of the exact ratio, but it's somewhere between 1:1 and 1:1,000,000. I'm not an internationalist, guys. I'm a patriot

Lumumba ("So? He's not American.")

Yep, from the perspective of America, American lives > the rest of you. I know, you don't like that. But whaddya gonna do, it is what it is. Sucks about that full spectrum dominance. Get used to it.

"American lives > the rest of you"

So, FourthBase: Either you really are the homegrown dumbfuck American fascist you appear to be, or else you are a crafty Iranian agent. I susppect you are not Iranian. Either way, you're doing a power of work for the Iranian propaganda effort. If the US authorities have any sense at all, they will prioritise sending a Predator drone your way (the American Way).


https://miro.medium.com/max/622/1*QEfZ81MqwnYHwXOHPFNOuw.png

[chump]

fwiw:

Max Blumenthal - Iraqi PM reveals Soleimani was on peace mission when when he was assassinated, exploding Trump’s lie of ‘imminent attacks’

[FourthBase]

If I were Iran, and if I were a devious son of a bitch, I'd hire Sunnis as a proxy and pray to Allah that there's no proof discovered.

If I were Iran, and if I were a devious son of a bitch, I'd deploy an Iranian agent fluent in teenage American edgelordism to post snickering fascist flamebait to English-language internet fora under the username "FourthBase". That would be a highly effective means of spreading anti-American propaganda. I would get this "FourthBase" character to defend the mass murders of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I would get him to fantasise about (and wish for) even more nuclear destruction, in Europe and elsewhere. I would ensure that both the style and substance of his posts were maximally creepy, arrogant and obnoxious. This artificial edgelord named "FourthBase" would go a long way towards persuading every last doubter that many Americans are indeed stupid, vicious, brutal and ugly, and that the USA is a very major obstacle to the survival of a habitable planet.


My Lai ("Sucks about that Full Spectrum Dominance? Get used to it.")

But that would mean X number of dead innocent people in Y country? So. They're not Americans. I'm a chauvinist, yep. I think the lives of my fellow Americans are more important. Important enough to kill a disproportionate number of other nationalities in order to save. Not sure of the exact ratio, but it's somewhere between 1:1 and 1:1,000,000. I'm not an internationalist, guys. I'm a patriot

Lumumba ("So? He's not American.")

Yep, from the perspective of America, American lives > the rest of you. I know, you don't like that. But whaddya gonna do, it is what it is. Sucks about that full spectrum dominance. Get used to it.

"American lives > the rest of you"

So, FourthBase: Either you really are the homegrown dumbfuck American fascist you appear to be, or else you are a crafty Iranian agent. I susppect you are not Iranian. Either way, you're doing a power of work for the Iranian propaganda effort. If the US authorities have any sense at all, they will prioritise sending a Predator drone your way (the American Way).


https://miro.medium.com/max/622/1*QEfZ81MqwnYHwXOHPFNOuw.png

So, once again, just to clarify, although I get why you'd feel an extreme aversion to answering the question because it would expose your rancid hypocrisy:

You'd refuse to nuke Berlin in 1941 in order to stop the war and the Holocaust and save 50 million lives?

When did I say I supported every damned thing the US government and military has ever done? I didn't. If you weren't so hysterically blinded by ideology, you might have noticed that I acknowledged how evil America can be. America can sometimes be, wait for it, pretty damned fascist. If it weren't for the fact that there are even worse fascists, I might even hate my own country. I hate plenty of individual Americans and certain institutions, that's for sure. Unfortunately, there's plenty worse out there, and so American dominance is, relative to what would take its place, a force for good. I wouldn't want to see your preferred fascist hegemony, that's for sure.

But so were Hiroshima and Nagasaki evil? To the extent that all war is evil, yes. But was bombing them a necessary evil? I'd have demonstrated the bomb in a less-fatal way first, just to see if that'd be enough, but it almost certainly wouldn't have been enough, so: Yep. Necessary. Again: It probably saved millions of American, Chinese, and Japanese lives. By forcing fascists to surrender.

Didn't expect you were going to pathetically try to flip the script and suggest I'm the one figuratively supporting the fascists of Iran instead of you guys who are literally supporting the fascists of Iran.

"Character", "artificial", "agent"...not that I really care about such laughable bullshit from you, but that's against the rules here, ain't it? Am I the only one who's going to get warned?

[MacCruiskeen]

Like all would-be bullies you are a coward. You're also disingenuous to the core. You post acre upon acre of truly repulsive openly-fascist flamebait (see above -- ad nauseam, literally): and when people eventually respond with the anger & disgust you knowingly & persistently & deliberately provoked and hoped for, then you cringe & whinge that you didn't really mean it and that the mods are not protecting poor you. Grow up, at long last.

FourthBase wrote:
Yep, from the perspective of America, American lives > the rest of you. I know, you don't like that. But whaddya gonna do, it is what it is. Sucks about that full spectrum dominance. Get used to it.

It is what it is, right. It's there for all to see, it is as fascist as it looks, and sane people everywhere have had enough of it. Those days are gone, Emperor. So get some clothes on you, you're frightening the children.