FourthBase's Mea Culpa Thread

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FourthBase's Mea Culpa Thread

Postby FourthBase » Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:59 pm

Sorry for going overboard with the ugly-mirror thing in the Iran thread. As penance, I forced myself to take another dive into the history of war's brutality and reacquaint myself with the horrors inflicted on innocents, whatever the justifications involved. Empathy restored. Suspension deserved, and served. Mission accomplished.

I'm going to pair this thread later with a FourthBase's Apostasy Thread, where I'll compile and re-justify all my most unpopular opinions, the ones I still abide by, along with new ones. But here I will offer up stuff that will hopefully delight the average RI leftist, as a gesture of reconciliation. I'll write critical reexaminations of anti-left opinions I've posted, list all the ways I think tinfoil leftoids are right, and show off things that I think might make you like me more, or at least remind you that I'm not a complete asshole.

As a first offering, I give you my recent anti-racist dunkfest on Facebook. It was in response to this painting, which was presented as a disgrace:

Image

I went in. Does anybody else do this kind of thing? Does anyone ever bother anymore to try to reason with the extremes, or have people just given up? Who even wants to get up close and tangle with such shit-encrusted people on their own terms? Who even knows how? Do I? You tell me.

I tried my best to be an anti-troll, to shove unwelcome truths down the throat of the alt-right with the contempt they deserve but with just enough reserve and to-be-fairness to avoid having a skinhead assassinate me someday. My rant to an audience of right wingers on an edgy-meme page, with subsequent comments:

No problem with that painting reimagined as black women. Whatever racial subversiveness there is, in a sneaky way it's actually fostering an affinity for western culture. Isn't that a good thing? Don't you want non-white people to aspire to western greatness, since to you that's synonymous with white greatness, and so there's necessarily an element of assimilation? (Apart from the non-white Mediterraneans who invented western greatness that you desperately co-opt as white civilizations because you'd feel inadequate limited to northern Europe.) Do you people even know what you want? Do you just want to hoard all the glory to yourselves? Is it really your glory? You're probably just some underachieving white schmuck reading Facebook on a couch. Are you a classical artist? No. Did you paint that? No. So how does any of the credit for it go to you? How did you wind up attributing the accomplishments of a tiny fraction of truly talented white humans to yourself? You're like a deluded sports fan if you claim the work of Leonardo or Michelangelo as some vicarious achievement. It's like Mike Trout hitting a home run, and then your worthless white ass rounding the bases as you pump your fists. You did nothing. So this reimagining takes nothing away from you, personally. Besides, you realize that white people have only been around for about 10,000 years, right? The humans who migrated from Africa into the Levant and Europe were black. (Perhaps they were the biggest assholes of Africa and kept getting exiled?) They stayed black for thousands of years. Those are your direct ancestors, from not too long ago. Black people. That painting is how your great-great-great-great-etc. grandmother might've pictured God, because that's how a God in her image would've looked. As for male/female, it makes a little more sense for God to be female, given the whole Creator metaphor. How would a male God give birth to the universe? Out of his ass? Would a male God jizz the stars into the sky? Also, that's how your great-great-great-great-great-etc. grandchildren will look, probably a shade or two lighter. All your direct descendants will someday be not-white. Half those descendants will be female. This is a picture of your family tree from the deep past and the deep future. Get used to it. Also, while you may quibble about average ethnic IQ scores: Unless you're some fucking genius, then you know damn well that thanks to the law of large numbers there are thousands upon thousands of black women in the world who are much, much smarter than you. You could fill an NFL stadium to capacity with all the black women who have you licked in the intelligence and career accomplishment departments. You would be, almost certainly, the single dumbest motherfucker in the joint. You would be very, very lonely and insecure. If you are an unrepentent racist or misogynist (the real kind, not the bullshit kind hallucinated by woke progressives) then maybe that will be a recurring nightmare scenario in your purgatory afterlife. The mediocre white putz surrounded every day by a swarm of black women with a commanding intellectual advantage over you, lmfao. Maybe instead of thinking of them as a separate team, you should start celebrating their victories vicariously, too, for Team Human. If you have nothing to show for yourselves and need to justify your superiority by bragging about other people's work, after all, why not take pride in the non-white work, too? Claim it all! It's as good a bullshit reason to feel proud of yourself as any. They might as well be you, too, right? (But better, lol.)

https://giphy.com/gifs/wrestling-mail-t ... dEHSk7wOpW


(Should I keep dunking on these morons, or am I playing too rough with retarded dogs who might bite me later?)

Some sarcastic shithead essentially says:

Woke people are virtue-signalling dipshits who will tearfully applaud a vapid deep thought like "wHAt iF whiTE peOPLe WEre BLacK?" [True, but...]

Me:

What if, though? Even if there's an average IQ score gap, thanks to the law of large numbers, at the tail end of the curve, there are thousands upon thousands upon thousands of black people who would dominate you intellectually. I would say they might as well be you, but they're better. Can you paint that? Nope. So what right do you have to be snarky on behalf of the "white people" who did? Quotation marks because it was only one amazing white genius who painted the original, not the whole damn race, which is largely mediocre, like everybody else. You are not amazing. You are not a genius. You have no standing to complain on behalf of a maestro. The black chick who painted this has way, way, way more of a claim of kinship with Michelangelo than you do. Way more plausible argument of being made in the image of that creative visionary God. She painted a tribute to a classical master. What have you done? All I know about you is the above shitpost, which is dank and very funny, don't get me wrong, but...not quite a masterpiece, you know? How have you personally justified YOUR superiority lately?


A whatnot meticulously turns that entire long post of mine into retard-Spongebob-font and then says:

Stfu cuck.

Me:

You did all that work, which is impressive, but in all that time, you couldn't muster up a single substantive counter-argument? Interesting. Seems like, well, you got nothing. Is that true?

p.s. Not a cuck. In fact, I'm on the other flank of the miscegenation brigade. Instead of watching a white whore of a wife get knocked up by a BBC (which is a pathetic and sickening kink to me but whatever floats yer boat, I guess) I'll be making non-white babies with a black wife. There's one hell of a market inefficiency there, so I'm gonna to take advantage of it. I also happen to prefer black chicks the way some black dudes prefer white chicks, i.e., my eyes automatically add a point or two out of ten for black women that most black men might go "meh" or "yikes" about. Can't help it. Just how I am. Anyway, the biting comeback you were actually looking for is: "Hope she sees this, bro!"


(It's too much fun, I can't resist.)

A stupid troll posts:

wE wAZ KaNGz!

I tell him:

I always laugh at the irony of the We Wuz Kangz meme, since the white racists using it are *also* largely incompetent losers who hallucinate false self-worth by vicariously taking credit for the accomplishments of a minuscule fraction of white geniuses, many of whom were swarthy Mediterranean ancients who were definitely not-completely-white. "Wee Was Atheenyuns!" No, lol, you wasn't. Your ancestors at the time in northern Europe was prolly up to their knees in sheep shit and totally illiterate.

Image


Somebody says:

That's because they have no creativity.

Me:

That must be a joke, right? :lol: In case it isn't: Black people invented almost every American music genre and dance move and, while the recent trend of rap toward trap is a horror show of idiocy, they are still almost the only people left who have a passion for writing poetry that anyone else in the world has any interest whatsoever in hearing. Also, do white people have creativity? Most don't. Most white people, just like everybody else, are fucking dull. You're only talking about a small minority of whites who have any significant creative talent. Guess what, it'd only be a slightly smaller minority of any non-white race, too. If that. It's probably an equal ratio...or maybe tilted the other way. The fraction of black people with top shelf creativity have magnitudes more creativity than the vast majority of white people. You should probably be more precise with that "they" term. Also, more importantly: A black person painted THAT PAINTING, as opposed to...well, what in the fuck have YOU ever done, lol? Have you paid tribute to a classical master with an oil painting? Do you understand that copying from other art and paying homage was standard operating procedure for centuries of white masters? But again, this is all just in case you weren't joking. If you were, then kudos, you got me!


(Here's where I throw them a bone. If they're going to be assholes, at least be useful assholes. Be better assholes. More entertaining.)

Some fool says:

Why so racial? They're defacing a classic! What did Italy ever so to them?

At which point someone else said:

Italians aren't necessarily white.

To which I responded:

Southerners, especially. The coast along the south of Italy might as well be a different country from the upper north. Rome was right in between. Hmm.

Anyway, no, not even Florentines or Venetians were considered white enough over 100 years ago, were they? Big-nosed hotblooded guineas (I'm half-Sicilian so I get to be racist against myself per woke law) aren't really what we think of as white. White is a northern Europe thing. Unless, per woke law, the Spaniards need to be condemned for conquistadoring, then they're also the definition of white. But still, nah, us wops are on the EDGE of whiteness at most.

Defacing? They're imagining themselves in a mythical setting. Do you not realize that's what painters always used to do? Were the greaseballs in the Renaissance defacing Greek and Roman art with self-inserts? No. It's called tradition. With a twist. That's the entire fucking history of fine art. If the black lady who painted this were just absolutely head over heels in love with white western civilization and tried to honor white artistic mastery by reproducing it with herself as all the figures as if her wildest white-culture-loving dreams of merging with great white art had finally come true in some glorious afterlife: She could have painted the EXACT SAME FUCKING PAINTING, lol. Alt-right fools don't know an instructive trolling opportunity when it hits them in their gaunt, pasty faces. To all the idiots on this page: YOU SHOULD BE THANKING HER. Literally. As a tactic, a gambit. Offer her unwelcome congratulations for paying tribute to white excellence, for recognizing the brilliance of white Michelangelo, for inadvertently bridging the racial gap by deferring to European tradition. Et fucking cetera. You're the trolls, you do the meme-ing. You're missing a golden chance to prove your point. Thank the shit out of her. Pretend she's that black female prodigy who unapologetically daydreams about matching the white grandmasters. Don't be assholes. Be as wryly polite, effusive, and oblivious as you can be. Become the biggest fans of this painting in the world! :lol:


Someone wonders:

Imagine the shitstorm if the roles were reversed.

Me:

First thing, Picasso.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picasso ... can_Period

Second thing...

DO THAT. Somebody racist with talent, please do that. Take a famous painting or photo of black people, and insert your white selves in it. Test the fucked-up logic of the left, expose their cultural apartheid for what it is. Please, please, please. I beg you. If you're a theatre director, cast all white people for A Raisin in the Sun. Do the thing you are not supposed to do, be assholes *conceptually* but be respectful otherwise in the execution of the idea. Understand the significance of the work you're converting into Whiteness as well as any black scholars do. That'd be the hard part for alt-right douches. Having class, showing empathy, doing legitimate research. But fuck, even if you do it like morons, it needs to be done. Set a woke law cultural precedent, the equivalent of Plessy, force THEM to commit the travesty and demonstrate how much they're racist assholes. Even worse ones, in a way, because theirs is institutionally condoned! And they have zero shame or doubt about themselves. Whereas the degenerates here deep down realize what despicable scumbags they're being, and secretly feel great self-hatred, which only fuels their callous racism more. The rejects here know they're being racist dicks, because society tells them. Whereas the gatekeepers of American culture have been convinced that it's IMPOSSIBLE for the woke battalion to be racist against whites. It's legitimately a scary situation, if the trajectory holds. They're going to be monsters someday. They're already turning into the vindictive stigmatizers that they've mocked the far right for thinking they've been. "It's okay to be white" was a genius ploy. Worked to perfection. They actually wound up dictating that, no, it is not okay to be white. They admitted they're racists. They do it every day. All as they swear they aren't racist, and can't *possibly* be racist (and yet they also swear that that is the signature of a racist mentality, "I'm not racist, but"...except for themselves, I guess, of course.) They denounce whiteness every damn day and think they're somehow able to segregate that from a denunciation of white people themselves. Something they would NEVER tolerate if the roles were reversed, no matter how scholarly the sociological argument against "blackness" would be. (Do that, too! Make the argument super-scholarly and super-woke, but emblemize it with a vague motto against "blackness", on t-shirts and mugs, and then gleefully watch the hypocrites reeeeee-act.) They believe white people are morally inferior. From birth, it seems, an original sin. That makes them racial inferiorists. The corollary of which is: They are also racial SUPREMACISTS. They believe "people of color" (implying the undesirable opposite state of being "colorless") are morally superior. They're not "the real racists", because the racists on this page are JUST as real. But they are *also* racists. Again, also, even worse: THEY ARE ALSO *SUPREMACISTS*, lol, literally, not an exaggeration. No one calls them that at the moment, as far as I can tell. Do that, too! They must be shamed with their own logic! WITH THEIR OWN LOGIC. Somebody do that Childish Gambino video with a white actor, or have a white couple dress up as Beyonce and Jay-Z in front of art at the Louvre. Replace the characters of black books on the covers with whites. Their Eyes Were Watching God, with all white people on the cover. The Color Purple. For the love of god, somebody here do all this. Jesus, none of you will, will you? You can't, can you? You don't know enough about the other side to pull it off. Shit. You're also generally too dumb to figure out the strategy. Fuck. Dammit.


More me, to another rube:

Is English your second language? I can barely understand what you wrote. Which race has the inferiority complex? The race of the woman who took the risk of applying the template of another race's artistic mastery to herself? Or the race of the feeble whiners on Facebook who are so insecure they feel racially threatened by a fucking homage? To be frank, I feel like what YOU all are signaling is deep self-esteem problems since you're extracting self-regard from some abstract collective racial accomplishment. Nobody who's actually successful in life needs to borrow ego from what somebody else does just because they happen to be the same race. That's pitiful. Like drawing personal pride from somebody on your local sports team leading the league in touchdowns. It's a FANTASY RELATIONSHIP. And it's skin-deep, i.e., it's fucking shallow. And, worst of all, it's PRECISELY WHY AN ARTIST WITH A MISSION LIKE HERS IS WRONG. She *might as well* be a white civilization fangirl who happens to be black, the painting would look exactly the same. That is a hilarious irony you should all lean on until the pressure breaks it. Send her public thank you notes for treasuring white culture. Become her biggest fans, facetiously. But we all know why she really painted those. To "disrupt white supremacy" by providing black audiences with a you-can-do-it-too switcheroo. She's tethering (some might say chaining) self-worth to some abstract racial identity. Just like you shitheads. No need! One's ego shouldn't depend on seeing someone who looks like you do something. A black girl can identify with a white Adam just as much as any human. To insist otherwise is: Racist! If she were just self-inserting, as a humanist, it'd be fine, right? But then no one would've noticed her work. If she didn't make a racialized claim, there'd be no controversy, and No One Would Care. Professionally, she's kind of forced to be racially provocative or else she wouldn't get any attention. It's one thing to think it's cool how awesome Larry Bird was, gee, neat, a white player who could school black players. It's a warped unhealthy thing to NEED Larry Bird or else you'd feel inadequate. No bueno.

Not a cuck. See above. Cucks let other (especially black) men fuck their wives. I'll be fucking my own wife, thanks. She'll just happen to be black. Oh, wait, I get it, you think I'd be "cucking" the white race by dipping my pen in ink? So what you really mean is "traitor", then? Yeah, see, I don't give the slightest shit about your ideas of racial treason. I don't feel a speck of loyalty to a "race", because why in the fuck should one be loyal to a bunch of strangers for so arbitrary a reason? What difference does it make? Do I care if white people wind up being oppressed? Absolutely. That would suck, and I fear the extreme right isn't completely wrong about the left's growing capacity to persecute "whiteness", so I'm not DISLOYAL in that way. I think it's spineless and reprehensible to HATE your own race. It's possible to betray your own race, if you truly hate your own race enough and collaborate with racists who hate your race. But simply fucking and marrying other races doesn't qualify as that. I have zero anxiety about white people disappearing from interracial mating alone. Let the mingling carry on. Who fucking cares. Eventually, everybody will be beige. It might be nice to maintain a small reserve of old-fashioned pale white people, just for biodiversity's sake, like a zoo exhibit to save an endangered species. Otherwise, whatever. Disagree? Buddy, every single branching line on your family tree is eventually going to turn non-white. All your direct descendants in, say, 2400. Zero will be white. Zero. It's futile. Give up that fight. Focus on the real problem. The institutionalized racism of the left, and your own racism which fuels their propaganda and accelerates their worst ambitions. Stop being a racist asshole. It's the only way to beat the left. You have no hope any other way.

"Virtue signal" isn't something you can just say whenever somebody extensively calls you out for bullshit and you have no legitimate response. That's weak. It wasn't a virtue signal, it was realtalk that you just don't want to understand because it'll wreck your assumptions. Well, get wrecked.


Racist creep:

Does your black wife know you're here?

Me:

She, whoever she is, will not care. I don't even have a black wife yet, anyway. But I'm sure I will. And I'm sure she wouldn't mind me giving misguided alt-right clowns a little anti-racist lecture. It's not virtue *signaling*, it's just virtue, period. I'm trying to help *you*, not myself. I'm pretty confident I'm not a racist, so I don't care if every black woman on earth were to read these comments. If I *am* a racist, it would be slightly racist *in favor* of black people. That bullshit Harvard implicit bias test told me so, lol. Might actually be true, tho. Can't help it. I grew up going to a mostly-black public grade school in my all-white neighborhood. The black kids in school were perfectly okay toward me, whereas some of the white kids in my neighborhood bullied the shit out of me. That probably set the tone. Do I give credit where it's due, including white supremacist scum? Sure. Funny dank memes are funny dank memes. Psychos who cut their dicks off and then try to recruit kids to do the same make me also say "And then one day, for no reason at all...", except when I say it, it's a horrified lament, not an eager slogan. Nobody can deny the 13/52 or 15/50 meme, whatever the real numbers are. It's not some biological predisposition, because 99.8% of black people still don't commit homicide. But there's *some* subcultural pathology somewhere in the black world pushing that number to 50, wayyy higher than the 30 or 35 expected if the problem were just "systemic racism" or whatever. Probably a fierce, persistent "honor" culture. Is that racist of me to acknowledge? Nah. It's racist of "anti-racists" to be in neglectful denial of a homicide crisis affecting black people, racist to ignore the 50 percent of murder *victims* that are black. You folks are actually doing them a service by pointing out that stat, although neither you nor they realize it. What else are you assholes right about, hmm...oh yeah, you're right to hate Communists. Although your *reasons* for hating them might be completely fucked if you're a Nazi who blames "Jewish Bolshevism" or whatever. You all are around 5-10% right. Progressives would have a shit fit if they heard anyone insist that the far right isn't *completely* wrong, but fuck them, I'm a realist. If you all were completely wrong, there'd be nothing to attract followers. So if the left wanted to actually drain your side of energy, they would concede you're right about however much they can, steal all your thunder, leave you with nothing. But of course, the left is fucking retarded, too. They cannot tolerate cognitive dissonance. You boys can. No hysterical freakouts and hollow piling-on like I get whenever I've been this real to leftists. I think it's because you alt-right idiots know full well that you're being deviant, that you're actually mostly-wrong. I think you're way wronger than the left, but somehow less deluded about yourselves and more willing to admit you've been wrong, which ought to shame the everloving fuck out of the left, that they're less openminded than Nazis, but they seem to feel no shame, except about their own "whiteness" if they're white. You guys can still feel shame. You know you're derelicts. My advice: Let that shame guide you to corrections. You wanna beat the left? You wanna stop the left from banning free speech, from banning guns and starting a civil war, from brainwashing kids to think they're the wrong gender, from ruining the economy, from eventually persecuting white people like your worst paranoid nightmares? Then stop being a fucking racist. It's real simple. If you keep being racists, the left wins. They've been leveraging the shit out of American racism since Scottsboro. Play better defense. Take that move away from them. Cease the racism.


Italian who is butthurt:

Italians would be angry at you! You're a woke idiot.

Me:

Oh, I know how defensive the southern guineas get about being called part-moolie. It's true, though. They (we, I'm one of them) are literally, genetically less-white than northern Italians. They wanna punch me in the face for acknowledging that? Fine. Not a good look for them. Why so defensive?

I'm not woke. I'm bespoke. Huge difference.

How am I racist against a whole nation? By saying Italians are less white than northern Europeans? But that's an indisputable fact. By recognizing the reality contained in Italian stereotypes? Get real, pal. You're a guinea, too. You know how we are.

It's not the same painting, it's an homage. So it's mostly the same, but she replaced the figures with versions of herself. It's a neat gimmick. White artists do it all the time. Do I agree with her woke *reasons* for substituting black women? No. Her *intentions* were racist. She's trying to be an anti-white revolutionary. But with art, *intentions* can be completely undercut and overthrown by the *result*, and the result of her painting MIGHT AS WELL BE a worshipful tribute to traditional white artistic mastery. There would be literally zero difference in the finished product. Exploit that, you dumbasses. Make her the artistic darling of the alt-right, against her will.

Do I understand tradition? Better than you. Does that black painter understand tradition? I mean, she fucking nailed that homage to Michelangelo. What tribute to an Italian master have YOU created?


He comes back with a more nuanced argument.

My retort:

Just saw your other long comment about the art itself. You make some good points. You just don't realize yet that she was paying tribute to Michelangelo and affirming the same message DESPITE HERSELF, UNWITTINGLY.

As for her claim of kinship with Michelangelo and other great Italian artists, I will ask again: Can YOU paint that? No. So who do you think Michelangelo would feel like he has more in common with? An internet shitposter who happens to be pale and lives in the same general country as he did? Or a black woman who actually knows what it's like to try to paint like him?

How exactly do YOU "belong" to the history of great Italian culture? Where did you get the idea that you, the shitposter, have the right to identify with Leonardo, Boccaccio, Dante? What have you done to deserve to call THEIR identity YOURS? You were just arbitrarily dropped out of a paler vagina in the same land. That doesn't make it YOUR culture. Those aren't YOUR accomplishments. Ultimately, there is no such thing as an "Italian people" that gets to take collective credit for the work of individual Italian geniuses. Maybe if you lived in Michelangelo's particular hometown neighborhood, then you'd deserve to feel a little vicarious communal pride. Otherwise, nope. That culture isn't yours. It belongs to whomever loves it, treasures it, learns from it, worships it. Which is part of what the woke left gets so wrong by trying to assign racial ownership to culture. You're as bad as them. You're as bad as this black painter. But again, DESPITE HERSELF, she still wound up honoring Michelangelo. So the culture of that original painting belongs to her now more than it does to you.


So whaddya think? Was I just virtue signalling. The way it feels to me, I'm just posterizing them for pleasure. But is there is a usefulness to it? Do you think I'm getting through to a small percentage of ambivalent lurkers? Is my strategy right? Should others try it? Or I am basically the only asshole in the world willing to try, because I'm the only asshole who enjoys this shit?

Image

p.s. Apparently not everyone is aware that white people are literally only about 10,000 years old. It's worth knowing, and sharing. Here's the story to confirm it.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/04 ... white-skin
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Re: FourthBase's Mea Culpa Thread

Postby FourthBase » Sun Feb 16, 2020 6:19 pm

You'll probably like this, too:

In the "Sir, this is a Wendy's" department:

"Hi [me]! This is ****** from the Bloomberg campaign office in ******, it was lovely meeting you the other day. I was wondering if I could buy you a cup of tea/coffee and chat about how you can get involved in the campaign! You can do as little or as much as you’d like--I can also bring you campaign buttons/shirts!"

"Hi ******. I don't remember meeting you. I remember *****. We had a brief, great talk. He pointed out Bloomberg is the Democrat best positioned financially to go head to head with Trump. I recommended Bloomberg show how committed he is to the party and how grave an error he thinks reelecting Trump would be, by promising to spend many millions to fund anti-Trump ads until Election Day *even if he doesn't get nominated by the Dems* just for the good of the country. Nassim Taleb would call it "skin in the game", and people respect it. I pointed out to ***** that I'm a political weirdo, though, and so I won't be campaigning for Bloomberg. I'm neither Democrat nor Republican. I think our republic is best served by three changes. 1) Ratify "Article the 1st", expand the seats in Congress tenfold. 2) Institute sortition for the new seats, choosing 90% of Congress by lottery. 3) Remodel the executive branch after Roman co-consulship. If you'd like me to be a weird "Bloomberg/Trump for Co-Presidents!" advocate, I'm glad to help in that way. But I confess I'm unsettled by rumors Bloomberg is considering Hillary. The candidates last election were almost equally implicated as intimate associates of Jeffrey Epstein, so it was a toss-up. If you choose her, you lose the "Not Associated With Epstein" advantage. That'd be my single issue. Vote for whomever's least connected to Epstein. If that becomes a draw, then I'd be forced to shift to my secondary primary issue: Avoiding civil war. Since Bloomberg's one of the most aggressive gun control advocates, I fear electing him will lead to gun confiscations, which will trigger a civil war, which the right wing will win because they have all the guns plus the sympathies of most soldiers and cops. Imagine a post-war society ruled by folks who make Trump look like Bayard Rustin."
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Re: FourthBase's Mea Culpa Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:17 am

.

You are a talented wordsmith, 4thbase, undoubtedly.

Seems you have certain preset notions of the aggregate sensibilities of RI members (placing the majority of us in this 'Leftist basket' defined by parameters created by you alone, some of which may well be imaginary, or otherwise based on subjective criteria).

Then again: what is a 'Leftist', a 'Liberal', or a 'Conservative' by today's shifting standards, relative to say, ~30 yrs ago?
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Re: FourthBase's Mea Culpa Thread

Postby FourthBase » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:37 am

Belligerent Savant » 16 Feb 2020 23:17 wrote:.

You are a talented wordsmith, 4thbase, undoubtedly.

Seems you have certain preset notions of the aggregate sensibilities of RI members (placing the majority of us in this 'Leftist basket' defined by parameters created by you alone, some of which may well be imaginary, or otherwise based on subjective criteria).

Then again: what is a 'Leftist', a 'Liberal', or a 'Conservative' by today's shifting standards, relative to say, ~30 yrs ago?


Fair points.

How would you politically categorize the 30 or 40 most prolific RI-ers? How many would you feel comfortable labelling as socialists? I'd be surprised if less than half were.
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Re: FourthBase's Mea Culpa Thread

Postby RocketMan » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:13 am

Well, Jeff declared RI to be unabashedly leftist. So the fact that it has attracted leftist people is no surprise. Of course things have... evolved since The Departure of Jeff, but still.

It's no big mystery, no social scientific conundrum.
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Re: FourthBase's Mea Culpa Thread

Postby FourthBase » Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:55 am

RocketMan » 17 Feb 2020 06:13 wrote:Well, Jeff declared RI to be unabashedly leftist. So the fact that it has attracted leftist people is no surprise. Of course things have... evolved since The Departure of Jeff, but still.

It's no big mystery, no social scientific conundrum.


Right.

Well, not quite. Jeff declared the board to be anti-fascist. There's a difference. I know there'll be 1 out of 7 or 1 out 14 classic hallmarks of fascism that leftists can always point to as not applying to them, thereby forever exempting themselves from the accusation, but it's entirely possible for leftists to veer into supporting fascist thought and policy and leaders. Like, ahem, an ayatollah. So, in order to be a genuine anti-fascist, sometimes you might have to be an anti-leftist.

The percentage of the board's most active posters who are socialists is definitely above 50, right? (Not going to ask what percentage of the board's total posts have been posted by socialists, lol, that wouldn't be fair.)
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Re: FourthBase's Mea Culpa Thread

Postby Sounder » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:38 am

I'm going to pair this thread later with a FourthBase's Apostasy Thread, where I'll compile and re-justify all my most unpopular opinions, the ones I still abide by, along with new ones.


While I enjoy this offering, the Apostasy thread will hold my interest even more. I most always enjoy your verbiage FB, but I cannot understand support for undermining other nations, especially through the use of terroristic 'special forces' and fundamentalist proxies.

Yeah, I don't get the conflating of leftist with anti-fascist. Someone that sounds like George Carlin, said that political correctness is fascism dressed up as manners. As I have said before; Ideas are something that you have while ideologies are something that thinks for and has you. The results prove to be quite shallow.
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Re: FourthBase's Mea Culpa Thread

Postby DrEvil » Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:25 pm

No one here supports the Ayatollah, but a lot of people thought it was a really dumb idea to assassinate a prominent general from a country you're not at war with (yet). Chewing gum and walking at the same time!
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Re: FourthBase's Mea Culpa Thread

Postby FourthBase » Mon Feb 17, 2020 1:52 pm

DrEvil » 17 Feb 2020 11:25 wrote:No one here supports the Ayatollah, but a lot of people thought it was a really dumb idea to assassinate a prominent general from a country you're not at war with (yet). Chewing gum and walking at the same time!


Didn't intend to revisit Iran, but if we have to wrap up that thread a little for this one to be able to be self-actualized, okay.

Let's flout Godwin and go straight to a Nazi analogy, since they were so kind as to be the principle-clarifying standardbearer of evil.

Let's imagine a world where the SS is orchestrating terrorism against Jews, allying with Russia in a civil war, funding some fellow fascists abroad and rejecting others, purifying the homeland of degenerates, enforcing oppressive patriarchal norms, and trying to build nuclear bombs. They then start plotting hit-and-run attacks on French military bases. No war has been declared. Would a French president be justified in assassinating the Nazi general behind it all, as a deterrent?
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Re: FourthBase's Mea Culpa Thread

Postby FourthBase » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:12 pm

Sounder » 17 Feb 2020 10:38 wrote:
I'm going to pair this thread later with a FourthBase's Apostasy Thread, where I'll compile and re-justify all my most unpopular opinions, the ones I still abide by, along with new ones.


While I enjoy this offering, the Apostasy thread will hold my interest even more. I most always enjoy your verbiage FB, but I cannot understand support for undermining other nations, especially through the use of terroristic 'special forces' and fundamentalist proxies.

Yeah, I don't get the conflating of leftist with anti-fascist. Someone that sounds like George Carlin, said that political correctness is fascism dressed up as manners. As I have said before; Ideas are something that you have while ideologies are something that thinks for and has you. The results prove to be quite shallow.


Every time there's a question of geopolitical ethics, before you condemn the US for villainy, run a Godwin test to see whether you'd condemn the same actions if the enemy were Nazi Germany. For example: Upset about COINTELPRO? Imagine the FBI doing some of the same things to Nazis. Would you be pro or con? Pro, probably, right? So it's not really the what a lot of times, but, as Vlad said, the who and the whom. Obviously it's inherently bad to violate constitutional rights and practically it risks setting a bad precedent that worse people will exploit, but, I mean...the surveillance, the mind games, the propaganda? Would you object to that stuff if the spooks had been trying to subvert Nazis? No. Unlikely. During WWII, you'd probably recognize it as a moral duty to try such subterfuge.

I may just treat this one thread as both a Mea Culpa and Apostasy thread, to consolidate space. As a taste of what's to come, here's a tweet-sized Badthought:

Broke: Debunking CIA conspiracy theories.
Woke: Realizing the conspiracies are true.
Bespoke: Conceding some were justified.
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Re: FourthBase's Mea Culpa Thread

Postby FourthBase » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:37 pm

A couple companion memes to the dunking one.

Image

Image
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Re: FourthBase's Mea Culpa Thread

Postby FourthBase » Mon Feb 17, 2020 2:49 pm

Speaking of logic, tell me if this logic has any scientific weight or if I'm just bullshitting. What more would I need to think through and prove with real evidence for it to be a legit thesis? What mistakes am I making?

So, I think I found a way to prove that racism and meat are bad. Tell me if I'm wrong. Tell me if there's anyone else who's already gone through this same logic, I would love to read whomever that is. All the math is just a ballpark placeholder to be revised by someone smarter who really knows what the numbers are. Bear with me...

All life is literally one family.
Every animal and plant is literally your cousin.
You have second cousins you live around.
You find fifth cousins on 23andMe.
You are surrounded by 20th and 30th cousins.
On the other side of the world...
Deep in jungles, stranded on islands...
Live your 50th and 60th cousins.
Even deeper in a jungle, snacking on fruit:
Your 50000th cousins, other great apes.
You have a weird relationship with...
Your 500000th cousins.
Some of them, you love like siblings, offspring.
Some of them are pests you trap in glue.
Some of them you kill and eat.
Those ants your 50000th cousins eat?
They're your 50000000th cousins.
Your body is crawling with microscopic...
5000000000th cousins.
The plants those ants crawl over?
They're your 5000000000000th cousins.

All of the decisions we make, whether to love a cousin or ignore a cousin or hate a cousin or devour a cousin or wash a cousin off our skin, are a choice of where to draw the line at which cousin is related enough or not to care enough about. Obviously, in order to live, we must not give a shit about some cousins, at a certain point. Microbes and vegetables, for example, are simply too fucking removed to be concerned about, and if we don't control and consume them, we die. But they're all still literally cousins. The only question is where you draw the line.

Your 1st cousin might as well be your great-grandchild. Literally, genetically. Your 50th cousins might as well be your direct descendants 1,000 years from now. That's not too long. Hate wisely. Or don't hate races at all, because it's idiotic.

Your 500000th cousins might as well be your direct descendants 10,000,000 years from now. That might seem like a long time, but is it long enough to justify eating them? Probably not. Eat wisely. Besides, you already treat some of them like little brothers and sisters. Like retarded, furry, four-legged children. You've confirmed that it's possible to treat some mammals just like family. Start thinking of the other ones more like family, too.

So...QED, or nah?
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Re: FourthBase's Mea Culpa Thread

Postby DrEvil » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:29 pm

FourthBase » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:52 pm wrote:
DrEvil » 17 Feb 2020 11:25 wrote:No one here supports the Ayatollah, but a lot of people thought it was a really dumb idea to assassinate a prominent general from a country you're not at war with (yet). Chewing gum and walking at the same time!


Didn't intend to revisit Iran, but if we have to wrap up that thread a little for this one to be able to be self-actualized, okay.

Let's flout Godwin and go straight to a Nazi analogy, since they were so kind as to be the principle-clarifying standardbearer of evil.

Let's imagine a world where the SS is orchestrating terrorism against Jews, allying with Russia in a civil war, funding some fellow fascists abroad and rejecting others, purifying the homeland of degenerates, enforcing oppressive patriarchal norms, and trying to build nuclear bombs. They then start plotting hit-and-run attacks on French military bases. No war has been declared. Would a French president be justified in assassinating the Nazi general behind it all, as a deterrent?


I prefer reality. It's the US hell-bent on starting a war with Iran, not the other way around. Using proxies is a time-honored tradition of the US, but when Iran does it it suddenly warrants assassinating their top commander with unpredictable and potentially catastrophic consequences.

From your hypothetical above (you just described the voting base of the current US regime btw) I take it you believed every word of the US justification (and refusal to show any evidence for said justification) for doing it? Otherwise your argument for killing him disappears.
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Re: FourthBase's Mea Culpa Thread

Postby FourthBase » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:12 pm

DrEvil » 17 Feb 2020 16:29 wrote:
FourthBase » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:52 pm wrote:
DrEvil » 17 Feb 2020 11:25 wrote:No one here supports the Ayatollah, but a lot of people thought it was a really dumb idea to assassinate a prominent general from a country you're not at war with (yet). Chewing gum and walking at the same time!


Didn't intend to revisit Iran, but if we have to wrap up that thread a little for this one to be able to be self-actualized, okay.

Let's flout Godwin and go straight to a Nazi analogy, since they were so kind as to be the principle-clarifying standardbearer of evil.

Let's imagine a world where the SS is orchestrating terrorism against Jews, allying with Russia in a civil war, funding some fellow fascists abroad and rejecting others, purifying the homeland of degenerates, enforcing oppressive patriarchal norms, and trying to build nuclear bombs. They then start plotting hit-and-run attacks on French military bases. No war has been declared. Would a French president be justified in assassinating the Nazi general behind it all, as a deterrent?


I prefer reality. It's the US hell-bent on starting a war with Iran, not the other way around. Using proxies is a time-honored tradition of the US, but when Iran does it it suddenly warrants assassinating their top commander with unpredictable and potentially catastrophic consequences.

From your hypothetical above (you just described the voting base of the current US regime btw) I take it you believed every word of the US justification (and refusal to show any evidence for said justification) for doing it? Otherwise your argument for killing him disappears.


I believe in "none of the above" as the answer for which regime is believable. I think the US has malicious ulterior motives, and I think Iran has malicious ulterior motives. Do I believe that Iran would orchestrate attacks on US personnel? Absolutely. They're vicious warmongerers. They're wannabe imperialists. Do I believe the US has an interest in starting a war? Absolutely. They're vicious warmongerers. They're imperialists. In a vacuum, though, do I think a nation has the right to assassinate an enemy leader to deter a war in a situation that the US wants us to believe was the situation? Yes. The logic passes the anti-Nazi test. In a vacuum. Is it a vacuum? No. The US is probably skewing reality, angling for an escalation. But is it skewing reality completely? To believe that, you'd have to believe the Iranians. Why do you give them the benefit of the doubt?

Haven't you ever known a couple that got into fights and both of them were assholes? When one of them tells you their version of events, do you take their word? If one of them's behaving reprehensibly, does that mean the other isn't also? No. You assume they're both guilty of being assholes to each other, both simultaneously justified in resenting the other. You could, I suppose, just choose to take one side's side arbitrarily, be the loyal chauvinist for one and demonize the other, as a gesture of loyalty. Lots of people do that. "She's a cunt, forget about her, I got your back", meanwhile knowing damn well your boy is a fucking douchecanoe, too.

I'm not that kind of person. As a rule, I want the holistic view, the whole truth, I don't allow myself to be blind to this asshole's flaws and blind to that other asshole's charms. I insist that people sufficiently acknowledge their own failures, too. Doesn't keep me many friends. But I'm not in it for the friendship. I'm in it for the truth. The truth is my homeboy. I got the truth's back. I root for the truth, not for one team or the other. You all don't necessarily root for Iran, but you do root for Anybody Against America, just like I root for Anybody Playing the Yankees in baseball. This ain't baseball. Truth isn't a team sport. Or, if it is, then I'm going to be the asshole in the stands rooting against both sides and jeering all mistakes and cheering on all excellence. If I were on the field, I'd be a weirdo who plays for neither team, a kind of freelance fielder who makes outs for both teams where there are gaps, an extra runner who scores runs for both teams, standing on an extra base next to third.
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Re: FourthBase's Mea Culpa Thread

Postby Sounder » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:35 pm

It is easy to heavily discount your 'anti-racism' given your Israel firster Neo-con warmongering conflations and rhetoric FB.

In fact, for me, all consideration of your verbiage is lost in bringing up the specter of NAZI's to support the aims of the only openly and explicitly racist state in existence.

Please do not engage with me, I don't care to interact with racists.
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