Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

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Re: Manufactured 'Contagion' - Coronavirus Edition

Postby semper occultus » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:53 am

yeah the Chinese diaspora & Belt & Road infrastructure I guess must be a vector - I'd heard about the Chinese in Northern Italy on a World Service programme a while back & was the first thing I thought of when they first lit up the radar. Presumably this is also going to be factor in Africa notwithstanding the climate is suppsedly less propitious for the virus to flourish. But still not really what China's new imperial vassals had in mind for what they were signing up for & despite the negligent senescence of the old Order not a great look for the new global hegemon. The CCP's attempts to meme a counter-narrative to get them out of the dog-house also look frankly dismal

but yeah its been a long but inevitbale trip to see RI finally being over-taken by events now - when we're even seeing satanic cults declared national security threats

I can't think of anything close to what they seem to be going for in terms of powering down the whole network & putting it in sleep mode for an interval. Maybe the 3-day week crisis we had in Britain back around 1973 but that was a purely domestic phenomenon caused by the miners unions blocking coal getting to the power stations
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Re: Manufactured 'Contagion' - Coronavirus Edition

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:54 am

semper occultus » 16 Mar 2020 10:28 wrote:hey Wombat thanks for all the hot-takes - so you ( or anyone else ) any view on what's going on in Iran ?

they seem to get hit very hard vs say S Korea around the same time ( seen satellite pics of massive death pits allegedly ) so is that down to sanctions, mishandling by their authorities or anything sinister ?

also seeing stuff about how the Chinese authorities are now going into sealed off buildings to recover the bodies - which presumably haven't been added to any death statistics hitherto

And Italy now saying they caught it from Germany !

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1255506/coronavirus-italy-cases-deaths-uk-germany-angela-merkel-eu-spt


Allegedly SKorea used face masks, and intensive surveillance and tracking of people to contain the virus. Taiwan did similar but included things like every child and parent giving a temp test, all entries to the island isolated and tested.

These are countries with experience with SARS which was fucked for a short while and they wore the brunt of it.

Iran ... It was in Qom a month ago. Qom is a city of pilgrimage that's really important to Shia Muslims. So it's gone from there throughout the Middle East and Africa and possibly to Se Asia. Iran didn't have a SARS outbreak did it? if it did they didn't learn.

There are countless people allegedly in Italy saying wtte of "Whatever you do don't do what we did, this is fucked."

That's why there is all this talk about staying home, social distancing and isolation, interpersonal distancing and what have you.

I still live miles from anywhere so maybe I'm a bit blasé but were stocked up with enough food to last a month - to ride out a mild infection, dunno what we'll do if it's worse. We will still shop in one country town where people aren't panic ridden clowns until everything goes to shit or we get sick. If everything goes to shit were on our own with our small hopefully resilient community.

But I totally get social isolation. Don't be around infected people and don't be in potentially infected spaces and you will slow the spread of the infection. This will mean whatever resources you need to deal with the situation will not be used at once.

It'll lower your chances of getting sick and mean if you do get sick rptheir should be resources available to keep you alive.

Severe pneumonia is bad but you can survive it and become a wrecking ball athlete. Ask Jed Anderson. (Plays afl footy for north Melbourne if you're interested.). Provided your medical system is still reasonably functional.

If it's in the general population either we are all fucked in the next fortnight or the death rate and severe illness rate is significantly lower than it would otherwise seem. Otherwise we may be able to manage this in Australia. Our government is useless and incompetent but there are good people who can convey effective info thru social media so we aren't completely fucked.

But that's here. We're an island nation, most of our cases are related to international arrivals at this point. One problem is panicking idiots have used all the tests so monitoring the spread will become an issue.

I feel for you peeps. I really hope youse are gonna be okay cos from the outside it seems like youse are in the shit and no one really knows what to do or how to do it.

So be careful, boost your immune system, wash your hands like you've got ocd, wear masks - they may work and theY will help stop you touching your face. If you talk to people do it out doors and try to stand side on to each other so you aren't breathing in each other's face.

Sterilise everything you touch when you get home and wash your clothes every day. Change em when you get home.

But otherwise try and do what Wombat said. If this was bubonic plague China would be completely fucked. There is a good chance you'll get thru it.

Hopefully this is the end of consumerism, we're seeing what panicked consumers with no clue do. They panic buy whatever the fuck they can. It's a very poor survival strategy and if most of these people survive it I hope they learn from it. Yeah right.

No seriously when it's over we the people will have a brief opportunity to get our stuff back.

We need to be ready.
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Re: Manufactured 'Contagion' - Coronavirus Edition

Postby Gnomad » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:03 pm

Today in Finland - all schools will close day after tomorrow, all travel abroad will stop, only citizens allowed in, all libraries, swimming halls, sports arenas, theaters and such closed, all gatherings of over 10 people banned, visiting hospitals no longer allowed, people asked to self-quarantine if they get sick and only contact health services in case they get it bad and need hospital treatment...

People are asked to avoid public transport and public places, as well as large shopping centers, but restaurants still allowed to stay open, as well as other shops as of now.
Panic shopping started as elsewhere, funnily enough also toilet paper - and it is produced in country in large amounts.... But still many hoarding it. Weird how these memes spread.
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Re: Manufactured 'Contagion' - Coronavirus Edition

Postby Karmamatterz » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:39 pm

Working on trying to figure out the mortality rate. Seems like either I'm not reading things correctly, or some are calculating things wrong. Who knows the correct way to calculate mortality rate?

Is it:

deaths / total population
deaths / total # of infected
or other?

I think this matters a lot as the big thing we keep hearing is that Covid-19 is able to kill X times more than the flu.

Appreciate feedback on this.

In other news...The Gov. of Ohio (DeWine) just announced even tighter restrictions.
https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/03/ ... virus.html

Bars and restaurants were closed last night unless they have delivery or takeout service.
The Tuesday primary elections postponed until June.


Gyms, water parks, movie theaters etc... to be closed and no gatherings of more than 50. Bars and restaurants got shut down yesterday except for those that have take out or delivery. Imagine, take out bars for St. Patrick's Day. All the drinking in the parking lots and streets.
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Re: Manufactured 'Contagion' - Coronavirus Edition

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:19 pm

Karmamatterz » Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:39 pm wrote:Working on trying to figure out the mortality rate. Seems like either I'm not reading things correctly, or some are calculating things wrong. Who knows the correct way to calculate mortality rate?


C'mon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_fatality_rate
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Re: Manufactured 'Contagion' - Coronavirus Edition

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:30 am

Re: Case Fatality Rate (CFR), and this whole damn global lockdown.

Emphases added. Links in the original.


Mar 16, 2020
337 comments

Panic Pandemic – Why are people who should know better buying the Covid19 hype?

Exaggerated or invented, the true danger Covid19 poses is shutting down our sense of reason


Catte Black


The only certainty about the ‘novel’ virus is that a great deal of nonsense is being talked about it by people who really ought to know better, and a great deal of opportunism is being displayed.

From Netanyahu grabbing the chance to postpone his corruption trial to Hollywood starlets claiming they have ‘tested positive’ (surely not a sad and cynical attempt to up their profile), this bandwagon is seething and teeming with those trying to seize their moment of fame or get rich or stay out of jail or just join in the mayhem

It’s cool to be nCoV-positive now. Maybe that’s why such inordinate numbers of famous people are staking their claim to it.

ISIS are apparently a bit worried about nCoV also and is allegedly sending out travel advisories to its jihadists.

Yup, that’s a real thing, right there. Really happening. Definitely.

Meanwhile, the propaganda is relentless, and there’s a variety for all tastes.

If you like your fear porn vanilla you can read all the articles based on total speculation that tell you millions will die if we don’t demand martial law and vaccines. (Speaking of vaccines, the as-yet-untested Covid19 vaccine is going to mandatory in Denmark, and in the US the manufacturers will have legal immunity should it cause any ill-effects).

If you are of a more sceptical turn of mind well, how about nCoV as bio-weapon? Plenty of juicy stuff on that topic also.

And scientists and science journals are not immune. There’s no shortage of people with PhDs willing to talk nonsense with a sciencey spin in order to convince the more inquiring proles that the governments are correct to invoke emergency powers and get that untested vaccine cranking out asap.

Look at this beauty. Written by a team of MDs and other ‘experts’ and appearing in The Lancet, it is about the most naked example I have seen to date of pseudoscience being used to inflate the perception of nCoV as something other than what it is.

The purpose of the article is apparently to find some sort of barely rational reason for estimating the nCoV case fatality rate to be higher than it actually is by a factor of ten.

Here’s the ‘reasoning’ it offers:

However, these mortality rate estimates are based on the number of deaths relative to the number of confirmed cases of infection, which is not representative of the actual death rate; patients who die on any given day were infected much earlier, and thus the denominator of the mortality rate should be the total number of patients infected at the same time as those who died.


They actually suggest with a straight face (though they don’t say why) that in order to get a ‘real’ figure for case fatality we need to count deaths as a percentage only of those who became infected at the same time as those who died.

So, if on Day One of a hypothetical new disease, two people get it and one dies, this would be a 50% case fatality ratio.

Sure, no problem. Common sense and statistics agree with that.

But what if from Day Two to Day Ten inclusive 198 more people get it and none of them die?

Well, according to the normal method of assessing CFR that would be 200 cases, one death, and a CFR of 0.5%

But with this brilliant new method, it would still be a CFR of 50% – because we are only allowed to count the cases who got sick on the same day as the fatality. And only two people got sick that day, of whom 50% died.

You see the corrupt genius of it? It’s a statistical nonsense that crucially gives permission to any would-be stats compilers in the WHO or elsewhere to overestimate the CFR of this bug, or indeed any other subsequent alleged ‘killer’ virus.

If you doubt this is the point, then read the article. This is just what the authors do, having the total gall to claim the ‘real’ CFR for nCoV is anywhere up to 20%, based solely on this crazy new way of figuring out the stats.

Which will look great in future headlines, and help pave the way for public acceptance of a total fascist dictatorship.

If you ever doubted that corruption is now endemic and all our institutions – political, legal, medical – are stacked with yes-men and jobsworths or fools prepared to put their names to any junk proclamation that might get them a raise or save their professional skins, just think of this article. Written by alleged world-class ‘experts’, published in the Lancet, and nothing more than a word salad of contradictory nonsense and meaningless conclusions designed to promote a political and propagandist point.


It even at one point acknowledges the probability of many many subclinical or symptom-free carriers of this supposed virus. But while the authors satisfy some dormant scrap of conscience by alluding to it they don’t draw their readers’ attention to the concomitant fact this lowers the case fatality by quite a way. In fact they allow themselves to sort of imply the opposite, because that is the level on which such people work:

Notably, the full denominator remains unknown because asymptomatic cases or patients with very mild symptoms might not be tested and will not be identified.


This is just one example of the forest of disinformative, hysterical, fog-bound garbage being poured on our heads about this so-called pandemic. That this is part of a coordinated and massive attempt to instil worldwide fear and enact worldwide population-management methods is now undeniable.

What is nCoV19? I honestly do not know.

The more the fear porn ramps up, the less certain I become of any aspect of the narrative surrounding it. We are definitely all being discouraged from questioning its virulence, discouraged from referring to its official fatality and case numbers, which do not correlate with the level of fear we are being told is appropriate. There is certainly a massive and multifaceted attempt to fudge and inflate those numbers to bring them in line with the ‘response’.

This brings us back to our revelation that good old Wikipedia have been downgrading the CFR of the Spanish Flu. It’s hard not to see this as part of the same process.


The actual death rates just aren’t high enough. So talk them up, play pea and thimble games with the stats, and do some Memory-Holing so that the 1918 pandemic suddenly has a very similar CFR, allowing your tame media to make all the right comparisons in their op eds and editorials, pointing out how many millions died back then despite it only having a fatality ratio of 2.5%.

They seem aware of the discrepancy, and are making efforts to prevent people researching it. The WHO are warning people not to read “too much” about the disease in order to protect their mental health. In a write up on the reccomendations, the BBC says this:

There is a lot of misinformation swirling around – stay informed by sticking to trusted sources of information such as government and NHS websites


Whether this virus is as imaginary as some are saying, or entirely real, it’s being hyped to a point beyond any connection with reality, and not just in the media. It’s a multi-pronged assault on our minds right now. Allegedly reliable and authoritative medical professionals are just as likely to talk propaganda at you as some government minister or media halfwit.

Even in the alt-media, many have stopped thinking and gone full deer-in-the-headlights, devoting their websites to recycling government talking points and urging those same governments to lock down their citizens.

How bizarre is it that outlets who were – just weeks ago – warning against trusting anything that comes out of the mouths of our ‘masters’, are now prepared to surrender entirely to official narratives and official ‘safe-keeping’ – and for a virus which, even if totally real, has killed about 7,000 people – or around 7% of the numbers who have died over the same time period – of the current flu.

Yes, that is a real statistic. Check it out.

And no, don’t tell me it’s “not a fair comparison” because the flu is ‘always’ here and nCoV is new. All you do by that is display your unthinking foolishness. Flu viruses are RNA viruses that mutate all the time – which is why you can catch ‘the flu’ over and over again; You’re catching a different strain, a ‘new’ variant. Just like nCoV it needs to travel by infection routes. And just like nCov it has to start small.

But unlike nCov it has already managed to kill around 100,000 people since Jan 1 this year. So let go of that particular piece of nonsense, ok?

Do the alt-media types backing these extreme quarantine and self-isolation notions think the anti-assembly laws, mandatory vaccines and other special powers will all just vanish once this crisis has subsided (because all pandemics eventually do go away)? Do they think the de facto martial law will be temporary?

Do they think we can just ask nice and everything will go back to the way it was? (assuming, of course, the entire system hasn’t morphed into the Hunger Games due to global financial meltdown and mass poverty, because we all basically signed off on closing down what remains of our economy.

Are they thinking at all, or just reacting?

The panic is now seeding itself and doing the propaganda work for those who set it off, and an obvious and very very alarming agenda is being rolled out right behind it.

It’s never been more important to stay alert, sceptical and objective. We’ll keep trying to do that – and you should all do the same.

https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/16/pan ... id19-hype/


Hear, hear.

Stay healthy, everyone, and above all: stay sane.
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Re: Manufactured 'Contagion' - Coronavirus Edition

Postby brainpanhandler » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:41 am

From here:

Report here: Horror virus deaths among the rich & powerful

MacCruiskeen » Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:17 am wrote:
brainpanhandler » Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:53 am wrote:
MacCruiskeen » Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:14 am wrote:I mean, above all, prominent politicians (from any country) who have actually died "of Covid-19" (sic).

...

It is only for reports of actual deaths.


Well, presumably you want to discuss this as well. Otherwise it wouldn't be very interesting reading.


It will make the most interesting reading of all if turns out in (say) three months that no-one rich & powerful, or nearly no-one, has actually succumbed to the dreadful unprecedented global threat of the ubiquitous invisible airborne Oriental Killer Whaddaya-Whaddaya-Definitely-Not-Flu Virus, you know the one I mean, the ravenous corvid, the one that has just shut down the entire planet for the foreseeable future.


What rough percentage of the total population do you consider to fall within this category of rich/famous/powerful personages?


You wrote:
Me wrote:So what sort of proof of actual deaths from C19 would you most likely accept?


Well, let's see what they come up with as proofs, if and when the rich & powerful do actually start dying like flies. Ask me again in the unlikely event that any such example(s) arise(s). But if, say, Alan Greenspan (aged 94) expires soon in a hospital bed with a fever and a cough and also "tests positive for the virus", I do not see how this would "prove" that he had died "of" or "from" Covid-19. He will have died of old age.


Well there are two layers of insularity there. If he actually dies and you do not dispute the evidence of his death (C19 with underlying complications?) then you will discount C19 as the cause since he was soon to perish anyway? I don't think that's the normal way of determining and officially documenting cause of death (I could be wrong). But, as a principle I suppose you can argue you are at least partially right. But how will you ever get definitve proof that you can believe that he ever had the Rona?
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Re: Manufactured 'Contagion' - Coronavirus Edition

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:06 pm

brainpanhandler wrote:What rough percentage of the total population do you consider to fall within this category of rich/famous/powerful personages?


C'mon, bph, this is just nitpicking. Let's not get bogged down in futile attempts to precisely define the term "the rich & powerful". You know what I mean, I already stated the kind of people I mean in that thread (add generals and admirals, btw.) and even named half-a-dozen individuals as examples. I also went out of my way to say "from any country", so these people needn't necessarily be global household names. If, say, a Finnish or Norwegian Health Minister or Foreign Minister or the CEO of the biggest Brazilian airline dies "of" (sic) CORVID-9/11, then by all means record those events in that thread, even if most people here have never even heard of that individual. They needn't be Beyoncé-level famous or Buffett-level rich or Merkel-or Macron-level powerful.

But how will you ever get definitve proof that you can believe that he ever had the Rona?


Again, let's wait and see. But in the hypothetical example I gave (Alan Greenspan, 94), I will want to know what other viruses -- if any -- they also discovered in his blood. Any sign of the common-cold virus, for instance, or the flu-virus? If he also tested positive for these, do you think they would tell us? I don't. I think they will tell the world that this extremely old man had died "of" (sic) CORVID-9/11, and "of" (sic) CORVID-9/11 alone. Because that will keep the fear nicely bubbling away, which will serve to justify the continuing lockdown.

I can see the headlines already: "KILLER VIRUS CLAIMS FIRST PROMINENT US VICTIM", "CORVID-9/11 SPARES NO-ONE", "WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER" - etcetera., ad nauseam and maybe even ad infinitum.
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Re: Manufactured 'Contagion' - Coronavirus Edition

Postby Grizzly » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:40 pm



Mac, are you encouraging wrongthink!?? ..LOL

Welcome to the slow-burn apocalypse ...

p.s, funny the board works fine for many many months, until the drama really gets going...
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Re: Manufactured 'Contagion' - Coronavirus Edition

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:48 pm

One thing's already certain: This manufactured hysteria is going to killl many, many, many more people than CORVID-9/11 ever did or ever will, and nearly all of them will be old and/or poor.

Today in Germany it was announced that foodbanks will be closing down, for fear of CORVID-9/11. Many poor people -- and that includes many working people -- are going to have even poorer diets than hitherto, some may actually starve to death, and all will have their immune systems drastically weakened by fear, stress and worry, for themselves and for their children. (Will any of these fucking "experts" actually bother testing any of these un-rich, un-powerful people to see if there's been (for instance) a sharp spike in their adrenaline levels, or a rise in their blood-pressure and heartrate since the lockdown started? Like hell.)

(Will actual soup kitchens be the next to go? The last resort of the actually homeless? And who will give them a dime when cash is abolished ("because of the virus")?

Homeless or not, the poor are going to become pariahs. People (I mean real people, the kind of people who matter) are going to avoid them and their devastated immune systems like plague rats; because after all, they might be carrying The Virus and it's irresponsible of them to be out & about at all.

Then there's this sadistic bullshit, from the USA:

By News 10 | Posted: Fri 6:06 PM, Mar 13, 2020

WEST BLOOMFIELD, MI (WILX) -- The Midwest Independent Retailers Association (MIRA) said it is requesting that the state of Michigan suspend all bottle returns at local grocery stores and convenience stores.

“We have always been concerned about the health risks with empty bottles returned to local food establishments, specifically our stores,” said Auday Arabo, president and CEO of MIRA. “Now with the Coronavirus, the risk of illness is that much greater and extremely concerning. ...

https://www.wilx.com/content/news/MIRA- ... 83511.html


"Extremely concerning". Ffs.

Image
https://www.abendzeitung-muenchen.de/media.media.92d5d09b-dc6d-4a59-a4ce-5c9f8922e65e.original1024.jpg

^^ An 84-year-old woman searching for bottles in a bin in Munich. Of course it's unhygienic, but she'll get 8 cents per beer bottle or cola can, and a whopping 15-25 cents for every large plastic bottle she finds. Is she too a Plague Carrier? Why doesn't she take better care of her health?
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Re: Manufactured 'Contagion' - Coronavirus Edition

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:58 pm

Supposedly the most accurate tallies from scrapers scraping every reporting agency in the world once every minute, catching all updates.

https://ncov2019.live/data

Meet the 17-Year-Old Behind a Website Tracking Coronavirus Cases That Is Now a Vital Global Resource



A teenager’s website tracking coronavirus has become one of the most vital resources for people seeking accurate and updated numbers on the pandemic. The URL is nCoV2019.live. We speak with 17-year-old Avi Schiffmann, a high school junior from Mercer Island outside Seattle, who started the site in late December, when coronavirus had not yet been detected outside of China. Now the site has been visited by tens of millions, from every country on Earth. It tracks deaths, numbers of cases locally and globally, and provides an interactive map, information on the disease, and a Twitter feed. The resource updates every minute or so, and pulls information from the World Health Organization, the Centers for Disease Control and elsewhere.

https://www.democracynow.org/2020/3/13/meet_the_17_year_old_behind

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXFm2u4EHrs

Again, there will be several thousands, perhaps tens of thousands of fatalities that will never be recorded.

If either I or my LL get this bug, we're most likely goners. Triage would not place either of us at our ages and conditions in a direly needed icu bed, but would reserve it for another more productive member of society with greater odds for surviving.
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Re: Manufactured 'Contagion' - Coronavirus Edition

Postby thrulookingglass » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:07 pm



When has anyone given a shit about the plight of the poor anyhow? God bless inequality.
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Re: Manufactured 'Contagion' - Coronavirus Edition

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:10 pm

Kind thoughts, thrulookingglass. I hope you and yours avoid becoming ill and remain well.
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Re: Manufactured 'Contagion' - Coronavirus Edition

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:15 pm

IAWIA, re: that Boy Genius, spreading fearporn across the worldwide web: He'll be a millionaire, and a celebrity, before he's twenty.

But unless that website records the age, class status, housing situation, and previous state-of-health of every victim, it is worse than useless as a source of useful information for anyone concerned for their own or their family's health. It will just terrify them unnecessarily and thereby damage their immune systems. It will also encourage them to spend an unhealthy amount of time on (in?) the net, obsessively clicking on the Boy Wonder's website for the latest fearporn updates, as opposed to doing the kind of things that actually make people healthy and happy and strong, such as meeting and laughing with their friends and family, hugging their loved ones, and spending lots of time in nature, or at least outdoors.
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Re: Manufactured 'Contagion' - Coronavirus Edition

Postby Cordelia » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:18 pm

MacCruiskeen » Tue Mar 17, 2020 6:30 am wrote:
Mar 16, 2020
337 comments

Panic Pandemic – Why are people who should know better buying the Covid19 hype?

Exaggerated or invented, the true danger Covid19 poses is shutting down our sense of reason

https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/16/pan ... id19-hype/




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