Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby JackRiddler » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:32 pm

.

If you think the categories are unclear and the data is opaque, confusing, fragmented and non-universalizable, it looks likely to get worse before it gets better, if ever. See article, below. The dodgy headline frames it as a security state issue, suggesting the public is untrustworthy, in the ominous style of our Times. A different subject becomes clear in the reading: even where they are trying to be serious and comprehensive, jurisdictions do not seem to be compiling the same set of variables using the same tools, or sharing the data in ways that allow valid aggregation and comparison. Further veils are thrown over this by petty officials suppressing data due to terror of possible (or imagined) liabilities, as one can read between the lines, and the tension between insincere political correctness and genuine fear of stirring up ignorant panic and violence. You might think the thing initially to trust the most as a measure of the crisis overall will be the proportion of original hospital beds and ICU/ventilators in use at the reported peaks, but of course this is precisely what the isolation strategy is supposed to keep as low as possible. If there are no constructed elements in the declarations of emergency one can only hope the strategy works; if there are constructed elements, we will be told it worked anyway.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/us/c ... ivacy.html

www.nytimes.com

How Much Should the Public Know About Who Has the Coronavirus?

By Thomas Fuller
Published March 28, 2020
Updated March 29, 2020, 5:25 p.m. ET

SAN JOSE, Calif. — When the first case of the coronavirus in Silicon Valley was discovered in late January, health officials were faced with a barrage of questions: What city did the patient live in? Whom had he come in contact with? Which health clinic had he visited before he knew he was infected?

Dr. Sara Cody, the chief health officer for Santa Clara County, which has a population of two million across 15 cities, declined to give details.

“I can’t give the city,” she said, adding “we are not going to be giving out information about where he sought health care.”

As the coronavirus spreads across the United States the limited disclosure of data by officials would seem to be a footnote to the suffering and economic disruptions that the disease is causing.

But medical experts say that how much the public should know has become a critical question that will help determine how the United States confronts this outbreak and future ones.

Residents are clamoring to see whether the virus has been detected in their neighborhoods so they can take more steps to avoid any contact. American researchers are starved for data, unlike their colleagues in other countries who are harnessing rivers of information from their more centralized medical systems. And local politicians complain that they cannot provide basic information on the spread of the virus to their constituents.

In the perennial tug-of-war between privacy and transparency in the United States, privacy appears to be winning in the coronavirus pandemic.

The bare-minimum approach to public disclosures in places like the San Francisco Bay Area is common across the United States. Armed with emergency powers in many areas, public health officers have vast discretion over what information they want, and do not want, to release to the public. Coronavirus cases in California are often listed by county, generally with very little additional information — such as gender, city of residence or age — provided.

Critics of the threadbare public reporting say it is striking that even in Silicon Valley, which is home to leading technology companies that thrive off the collection of data, residents are given very little information about the movement and dynamics of the virus.

California, which has more than 4,600 cases, is a microcosm for how inconsistent the distribution of information has been during the pandemic. Los Angeles County provides a rough age distribution of patients and breaks down the cases into more than 140 cities and communities. On Friday, for example, the county reported 21 cases in Beverly Hills, 28 in the city of Santa Monica and 49 in the neighborhood of Melrose.

Across the United States there is even less consistency. New York is listing cases by age bracket, gender and borough despite calls for more localized reporting. Connecticut lists data by town. Florida provides its residents with a wealth of data on the pandemic. The state’s Department of Health has a detailed dashboard and reports showing the spread of the virus — rich with data on the cities affected, the number of people tested, the age brackets of patients, whether they are Florida residents, and the number of cases in nursing homes.

Health departments in the Bay Area make the case that releasing more granular data could heighten discrimination against certain communities where there might be clusters. The first cases in the Bay Area were among ethnic Chinese residents returning from trips to China.

“Pandemics increase paranoia and stigma,” said Dr. Rohan Radhakrishna, the deputy health officer of Contra Costa County, across the Bay from San Francisco, which provides only the total number of cases in the county on its website. “We must be extra cautious in protecting individuals and the community.”

In Santa Clara, health officials say they cannot disclose how many cases are found in each city because of the nation’s strict medical privacy law, the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, or HIPAA, signed by President Bill Clinton in 1996.

But that law was designed for the protection of personal data at doctors’ offices and in hospitals and includes provisions for the release of otherwise protected information during emergencies.

Using the law as a justification for limiting the release of aggregate data about the coronavirus is “ridiculous,” according to Arthur L. Caplan, a professor of bioethics at the N.Y.U. School of Medicine in New York City.

Prof. Caplan is among many experts who say the coronavirus is likely to spur a reassessment of medical privacy laws. Already, the Trump Administration waived some provisions of the law this month.

“HIPAA was written for a time when there were paper charts,” Prof. Caplan said. The coronavirus, he said, “will cause us to rethink a lot of things.”

“We will also have to plan for better data exchange and testing,” he said.

The U.S. approach contrasts sharply with that of Singapore and Taiwan, whose fights against the virus have been praised as among the most effective. Both governments make public the suspected linkages of cases, anonymized by numbers. In Singapore the authorities sometimes list neighborhoods where patients lived, their workplaces and churches or mosques that they attended.

I. Glenn Cohen, an expert in bioethics at Harvard Law School, says the guiding principle during this crisis should be sharing more rather than less.

“Public health depends a lot on public trust,” he said. “If the public feels as though they are being misled or misinformed their willingness to make sacrifices — in this case social distancing — is reduced.”

“That’s a strong argument for sharing as much information as you can,” he said.

Experts also point out that it was the government’s suppression of information about the virus in China that allowed it to spread quickly before measures were taken to stem it.

Stanford University in California. The state is a microcosm for how inconsistent the distribution of information about coronavirus cases has been. Credit...Philip Pacheco/Getty Images

On Friday the health authorities in Santa Clara, which has more than 590 cases and is home to the headquarters of companies like Google and Apple, added a dashboard that charts the number of daily cases and other metrics.

But the county’s public information office says it will not publicly disclose the number of cases in each city because doing so could make individuals more easily identifiable.

In a sign of how contested the question of public disclosure is, disagreement exists even within the Santa Clara County government.

Dr. Jeffrey V. Smith, the county executive, who is both a medical doctor and a lawyer, argues that more precise geographical information about the spread does not help combat the virus because it is already widespread.

“Reporting positive tests with a census tract or a city name provides data that is not helpful,” Dr. Smith said. “In fact, such data has the risk of stigmatizing areas and regions of the country in a way that does not help.”

But David Cortese, a member of the county’s board of supervisors, says that the public has the right to know more and that a patient’s identity is unlikely to be revealed by giving a breakdown of cases by city.

“I think when people can’t get information they freak out, they think something is being hidden from them, conspiracy theories grow, suspicions grow,” he said. “I think it’s always better to be as truthful, calmly, and transparent with the public as you can be.”

As an example, Mr. Cortese says he is alarmed that health officers have not made more information public on the coronavirus-related death of a homeless man in the county. Given the medical vulnerabilities of that population, doctors and advocates of homeless people have called his office demanding to know in which encampment the man lived so that they could advise other homeless people in the area to be more vigilant. The county, which refused to disclose that information, said in a statement that health officials screened 60 members of the “specific community” and tested nine symptomatic individuals for the coronavirus. All nine tests were negative, the county said.

Mr. Cortese says it is obvious to him that more information on the spread of the pandemic should be shared.

“At the height of the information age in Silicon Valley we have stumbled and fallen flat in terms of our ability to use the tools and resources that we have to get necessary information out to the people we serve,” Mr. Cortese said.

Frustration over the dearth of data also extends to epidemiologists trying to understand the dynamics of the spread of the virus.

Joseph Lewnard, a professor of epidemiology at the University of California, Berkeley School of Public Health, says researchers are hamstrung in the United States by the lack of specific data on testing and on the symptoms patients show.

To make up for the lack of public data, researchers are scraping information on cases from news outlets and other media accounts, he said. They are mainly relying on data from South Korea, China and Italy to try to predict the spread of the virus.

“We are right now learning and trying to project what is happening here in the United States almost entirely based on observations from these other countries,” Prof. Lewnard said.

Moritz Kraemer, a scholar at Oxford University who is leading a team of researchers in mapping the global spread of the coronavirus, says China’s data “provided incredible detail,” including a patient’s age, sex, travel history and history of chronic disease, as well as where the case was reported, and the dates of the onset of symptoms, hospitalization and confirmation of infection.

The United States, he said, “has been slow in collecting data in a systematic way.”

Dr. C. Jason Wang, a researcher at Stanford University, who has studied how Taiwan handled the coronavirus outbreak, says some of the measures taken in Taiwan would most likely not be accepted in the United States given privacy concerns. The government, for example, merged the airport immigration database with the national medical database so that doctors could immediately see if a patient had traveled out of the country.

But Dr. Wang says the proactive approach that Taiwan took to the virus, including aggressive tracing of cases, has helped keep the total number of confirmed infections — 283 on Saturday — much lower than experts initially expected. By comparison, the borough of Queens in New York City, with one-tenth the population of Taiwan, has 10,000 cases.

Some of the information being released to the public in Taiwan and Singapore would most likely be uncontroversial in the United States, he said. Taiwanese authorities, for example, have pointed out linkages between anonymized cases, including family clusters, in an effort to warn the public how easily the virus is transmitted within households.

Prof. Caplan of the N.Y.U. School of Medicine says it is paradoxical that the United States is providing less precise information to its citizens on the outbreak than Singapore, which puts limits on the spread of information through internet controls.

“Here we expect to get information so we have our choices and we make our decisions,” he said. “Our notion is information is the oxygen for democracy. Wouldn’t we want to receive more information than them?”

Thomas Fuller is the San Francisco bureau chief. He has spent the past two decades in postings abroad for The Times and the International Herald Tribune in Europe and, most recently, in Southeast Asia.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:53 pm

They knew. They knew all this would happen. They planned it all out in detail. The great lies, the enabling acts, the global lockdowns and lockouts, the wholly predictable health consequences and political opportunities:

Rising desperation among the impoverished working class, slowly-emptying cupboards and fridges, growing panic, unbearable cabin fever in cramped apartments often even without a tiny balcony, alcohol abuse, screen addiction, fraying tempers and screaming matches and millions of terrified chidren, then the assaults and the actual murders, then freedom breaks out and the rioting starts off in earnest and it's in the streets now and it's all televised live and it's amazingly exciting on a big flatscreen I heart fearporn and Anderson Cooper reports live and finds it all "pretty concerning" though and sources say and sources tell him and look there's a policeman on fire and oh god the acropolis has fire damage too and aren't these people rather deplorable? and the avidly-spectating bourgeoisie agrees finally, and just a little shamefacedly, and firmly decides which side it's on and what it really really wants: Ordnung. Best for everyone, really. Safety first, and anyway: Gaia.

It's hard to imagine who could profit from all this, isn't it. No one could have seen it coming. Don't blame us.

Domestic violence

Lockdowns around the world bring rise in domestic violence

Activists say pattern of increasing abuse is repeated in countries from Brazil to Germany, China to Greece

Coronavirus – latest updates
See all our coronavirus coverage

Emma Graham-Harrison, Angela Giuffrida in Rome, Helena Smith in Athens and Liz Ford
Sat 28 Mar 2020 05.00 GMT

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/202 ... ssion=true

"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
User avatar
MacCruiskeen
 
Posts: 10558
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:47 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby JackRiddler » Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:22 pm

EMT in NYC wrote:
March 27 at 12:28 AM

Yesterday(3/26/20) from Midnight to Midnight NYC’s EMTs and Paramedics fielded a record 7,111 calls.

In the history of the city’s EMS we have only topped 6,000 calls 3 times prior, on 9/11/2001 and then this week on 3/25/20 and 3/24/20.

We have fielded 42,494 calls in the last 7 calendar days, to give some perspective Boston’s EMS system responds to approximately 128,000 calls a YEAR.

I am so proud of my brothers and sisters and consider myself lucky to be surrounded by you.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:47 pm

I wonder how many of those suicides and battered women and suffocated babies and stabbed spouses will be found to have died "with" COVID-911.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
User avatar
MacCruiskeen
 
Posts: 10558
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:47 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:25 am

Of course.

Coronavirus: Fake news crackdown by UK government
5 hours ago

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-52086284


The real evil genius is, they've had nearly everyone begging for censorship for years now, positively raging for it, because Alex Jones.

@Offguardian0 - https://mobile.twitter.com/OffGuardian0

^^will be among the first to go. Already under massive cyberattack and twittermob-attack, like honesty and courage and reason everywhere. Catch it while you can.

The Global Patriot and Homeland Security Acts are here. The cull is underway. Because science.
Last edited by MacCruiskeen on Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
User avatar
MacCruiskeen
 
Posts: 10558
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:47 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: The Main Thread

Postby 8bitagent » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:04 am

MacCruiskeen » Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:13 am wrote:Wise words, Gnomad. We are weirdly fortunate to be living through all this. A change is gonna come, inevitably, because it has to. We might even shape that change sanely, together. May all of us keep breathing.

Oh please leave us something to breathe.

"Let there be no strife, for we be brethren."


Part of me is happy to see such a dramatic decrease in pollution worldwide, tho I don't even want to think what the psychological toll that's rearing on the the 7.8 billion people on the planet on this lockdown.
Last edited by 8bitagent on Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby 8bitagent » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:20 am

clicked on NBC new's live blog and saw this image of cops in India trying to educate the public and enforcing the lockdown
Image

almost a billion and a half humans in just one country(India) on total lockdown quarantine is out of sci fi film. at this point im not sure if there's any predictions, theories, or ideas that would seem that outlandish.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: The Main Thread

Postby identity » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:23 am

8bitagent » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:04 am wrote:did you ever think 1.4 billion people in India would be forced into total lockdown quarantine?


No, but then I never foresaw CORONAHELMET either...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADnYMvaeq_c
identity
 
Posts: 707
Joined: Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:00 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:29 am

Spain bans cycling amid coronavirus outbreak

https://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/7869/spa ... s-outbreak


Because science. Because OMFG-COMORBID-911. Because the authorities truly care about our health.

Coronavirus lockdown: Jogger resists arrest in Spain and is abused by onlookers

https://en.as.com/en/2020/03/21/videos/ ... ssion=true


A woman. Alone. Thrown to the ground by cops and arrested for resisting arrest. See film at link.

# I Fucking Love Science
#FearpornLockdown
#Netflix&Kill
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
User avatar
MacCruiskeen
 
Posts: 10558
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:47 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Grizzly » Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:14 am

What is your explanation for the graph on this page, which clearly shows that wearing a mask has massive effect on the spread of the disease?

https://www.maskssavelives.org



This is not to say what MacC's message is isn't worth pondering. It is. And he makes a strong case for it. But, what if it's both real and manufactured what if there are several different strains being released and the most deadly are either yet to come or only released where someone stands to gain the most. Either way, this is a test ...

“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

― Joseph mengele
User avatar
Grizzly
 
Posts: 4908
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:15 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby alloneword » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:08 am

Grizzly » Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:14 am wrote:What is your explanation for the graph on this page


It's showing the 'cumulative number of cases' by country without regard to population size (Singapore: ~6M, HK: ~7.5M). You'd need to look at 'per capita' case numbers. Japan is an outlier, though.

(Cheers for those articles, BSav & JR)
User avatar
alloneword
 
Posts: 902
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:19 am
Location: UK
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby alloneword » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:14 am



(Apols to Mac! ;) )
User avatar
alloneword
 
Posts: 902
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:19 am
Location: UK
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:33 am

Whut?! No apols needed, on the contrary! I watched that again just two days ago and loved it. The Simpsons are American comic genius at its best. The anti-Maher, the anti-SNL, the antidote.

Real belly laughter strengthens the immune system, especially if you're doing it in company.

AL-QORVID-911: Let's revive the great and now nearly verboten American word "bullshit". Otherwise these witless bastards will kill us all.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
User avatar
MacCruiskeen
 
Posts: 10558
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:47 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby hanshan » Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:52 am

...


phone tracking using location data




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq2zuE3ISYU


...
hanshan
 
Posts: 1673
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:04 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:06 am

BREAKING NEWS: A 69-year old man has died. The world needs to know this.

..."after contracting" (sic) "coronavirus" (sic)

In the last eight years or so I've attended five funerals. All of those people were aged between 48 and 61. They had all been seriously ill. The BBC never screamed in your face about them.
"Ich kann gar nicht so viel fressen, wie ich kotzen möchte." - Max Liebermann,, Berlin, 1933

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Richard Feynman, NYC, 1966

TESTDEMIC ➝ "CASE"DEMIC
User avatar
MacCruiskeen
 
Posts: 10558
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:47 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest