Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff
"All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone."
Iamwhomiam » 14 May 2020 17:38 wrote:stickdog99 » Thu May 14, 2020 12:40 am wrote:liminalOyster » 13 May 2020 20:52 wrote:I agree emphatically that all sorts of risky precedents are at play or potential play. Some of the worst I can imagine in fact.
I'm also very confident that masks and social distancing help reduce transmission and save lives. Much like I believe about vaccines in general while passionately and totally opposing them ever being mandatory.
So I have no difficulty separating out in my own mind that one can 100% oppose any criminalization of what need to be consensual opt-ins and still passionately support the proposed measures.
Please *choose* to wear a mask in public places.
Please. Please. Please.
I have no problem with this. Obviously, I advocate breathing responsibly. With so many unknowns, why try to help out however you can?
stickdog99 » Sat May 16, 2020 3:21 am wrote:Iamwhomiam » 14 May 2020 17:38 wrote:stickdog99 » Thu May 14, 2020 12:40 am wrote:liminalOyster » 13 May 2020 20:52 wrote:I agree emphatically that all sorts of risky precedents are at play or potential play. Some of the worst I can imagine in fact.
I'm also very confident that masks and social distancing help reduce transmission and save lives. Much like I believe about vaccines in general while passionately and totally opposing them ever being mandatory.
So I have no difficulty separating out in my own mind that one can 100% oppose any criminalization of what need to be consensual opt-ins and still passionately support the proposed measures.
Please *choose* to wear a mask in public places.
Please. Please. Please.
I have no problem with this. Obviously, I advocate breathing responsibly. With so many unknowns, why try to help out however you can?
Sorry, that was supposed to read: "With so many unknowns, why try NOT to help out however you can?"
DrEvil » 14 May 2020 21:17 wrote:stickdog99 » Thu May 14, 2020 6:54 am wrote:DrEvil » 13 May 2020 21:02 wrote:stickdog99 » Wed May 13, 2020 9:54 pm wrote:To me, it sets a ridiculously bad precedent to criminalize coming within six feet of other people or failing to wear a mask.
Not really a precedent. Look up Typhoid Mary.Too many people, even many here, do not seem to appreciate the very basic idea that almost everyone will be exposed to this virus one way or another before this is over. All we can possibly do by steering clear of others is to flatten the curve. Are you really in favor of jailing someone who may or may not actually have a certain virus for potentially transmitting to someone something with the potential to perhaps harm this person at a time that is potentially not optimal in terms of available medical resources for this person to be exposed to something that he or she will soon almost certainly be exposed to anyway?
If you're supposed to be in quarantine because you've had close contact with someone who tested positive then yes, you should get slapped if you ignore it. Jail is probably too harsh unless you're being exceptionally stupid, like repeatedly breaking quarantine or coughing on people on purpose.Why not criminalize sex? Sex has the potential to lead to all sorts of ill health effects. Aren't you willfully risking the health of your partners in the same sort of manner every time you have sex?
If you intentionally infect someone else with an STD then that's already a criminal offense.
That's a bizarre reply. I mean, if you put COVID-19 in someone's drink in order to infect them, sure you should go to jail. But how does going outside without a mask or coming within 4 feet of someone have anything to do with intentionally infecting someone else with a STD?
And I don't think you would bat an eye if any heathen who committed the high crime of refusing vaccination or not wearing a required mask were intentionally infected with disease as punishment. I mean, look up Typhoid Mary.
You started talking about the dangers of sex, I replied. Not that hard to follow.
I was pointing out that most of the things you mentioned in your wall of whataboutism and rhetorical overload already are illegal if you do them irresponsibly/wrong/stupidly, just like it now is illegal in many places to act irresponsibly/wrong/stupidly in regards to the virus. The same principle applies: your freedom stops where it starts hurting others.
I agree that some of the penalties seem overly draconian, but to be honest I'm not sure if asking politely would work. Too many selfish assholes and just plain dumb people in the world (Exhibit A: woman with breathing hole in her mask. See also: The Republican Party).And I don't think you would bat an eye if any heathen who committed the high crime of refusing vaccination or not wearing a required mask were intentionally infected with disease as punishment.
Of course. If someone disagrees with you it has to be because they're a raging psychopath. No other possible explanation.
liminalOyster » 16 May 2020 07:31 wrote:stickdog99 » Sat May 16, 2020 3:21 am wrote:Iamwhomiam » 14 May 2020 17:38 wrote:stickdog99 » Thu May 14, 2020 12:40 am wrote:liminalOyster » 13 May 2020 20:52 wrote:I agree emphatically that all sorts of risky precedents are at play or potential play. Some of the worst I can imagine in fact.
I'm also very confident that masks and social distancing help reduce transmission and save lives. Much like I believe about vaccines in general while passionately and totally opposing them ever being mandatory.
So I have no difficulty separating out in my own mind that one can 100% oppose any criminalization of what need to be consensual opt-ins and still passionately support the proposed measures.
Please *choose* to wear a mask in public places.
Please. Please. Please.
I have no problem with this. Obviously, I advocate breathing responsibly. With so many unknowns, why try to help out however you can?
Sorry, that was supposed to read: "With so many unknowns, why try NOT to help out however you can?"
Ha, my mind automatically placed your phantom "NOT" there, so I read you correctly in the first place.
liminalOyster » Sat May 16, 2020 3:30 am wrote:For those here who eschew masks because you are not convinced they are effective in reducing the transmission of COVID-19, I'm curious - what scientific "authority" or agency would you simply believe (accept, take at face value, etc) if they were to say that yes, indeed - proper masks are a demonstrably effective means to help reduce transmission of COVID-19 in a community.
Yes you do.stickdog99 » Sat May 16, 2020 9:33 am wrote:DrEvil » 14 May 2020 21:17 wrote:stickdog99 » Thu May 14, 2020 6:54 am wrote:DrEvil » 13 May 2020 21:02 wrote:stickdog99 » Wed May 13, 2020 9:54 pm wrote:To me, it sets a ridiculously bad precedent to criminalize coming within six feet of other people or failing to wear a mask.
Not really a precedent. Look up Typhoid Mary.Too many people, even many here, do not seem to appreciate the very basic idea that almost everyone will be exposed to this virus one way or another before this is over. All we can possibly do by steering clear of others is to flatten the curve. Are you really in favor of jailing someone who may or may not actually have a certain virus for potentially transmitting to someone something with the potential to perhaps harm this person at a time that is potentially not optimal in terms of available medical resources for this person to be exposed to something that he or she will soon almost certainly be exposed to anyway?
If you're supposed to be in quarantine because you've had close contact with someone who tested positive then yes, you should get slapped if you ignore it. Jail is probably too harsh unless you're being exceptionally stupid, like repeatedly breaking quarantine or coughing on people on purpose.Why not criminalize sex? Sex has the potential to lead to all sorts of ill health effects. Aren't you willfully risking the health of your partners in the same sort of manner every time you have sex?
If you intentionally infect someone else with an STD then that's already a criminal offense.
That's a bizarre reply. I mean, if you put COVID-19 in someone's drink in order to infect them, sure you should go to jail. But how does going outside without a mask or coming within 4 feet of someone have anything to do with intentionally infecting someone else with a STD?
And I don't think you would bat an eye if any heathen who committed the high crime of refusing vaccination or not wearing a required mask were intentionally infected with disease as punishment. I mean, look up Typhoid Mary.
You started talking about the dangers of sex, I replied. Not that hard to follow.
I was pointing out that most of the things you mentioned in your wall of whataboutism and rhetorical overload already are illegal if you do them irresponsibly/wrong/stupidly, just like it now is illegal in many places to act irresponsibly/wrong/stupidly in regards to the virus. The same principle applies: your freedom stops where it starts hurting others.
I agree that some of the penalties seem overly draconian, but to be honest I'm not sure if asking politely would work. Too many selfish assholes and just plain dumb people in the world (Exhibit A: woman with breathing hole in her mask. See also: The Republican Party).And I don't think you would bat an eye if any heathen who committed the high crime of refusing vaccination or not wearing a required mask were intentionally infected with disease as punishment.
Of course. If someone disagrees with you it has to be because they're a raging psychopath. No other possible explanation.
OK, but why always err on the side of effectively criminalizing nonconformity to your wishes? Don't we penalize people enough for you already?
Yes you do.Don't we incarcerate people enough for you already?
Yes you do.Don't we restrict people's freedom to control their own lives enough for you already?
mentalgongfu2 » 16 May 2020 09:59 wrote:It strikes me that there is a large disconnect in our communication on this forum based on the specific circumstances people are facing in their various countries and regions.
Despite fear of pointing out the obvious, this may account for some of us talking more past each other than to each other. The concerns raised about government over-reach, for example, are largely non-existent where I live, as the government has basically made strongly worded recommendations that have been almost entirely rescinded as of today. Whether or not these are followed has depended greatly on the individuals and organizations involved. I will endeavor to describe the particular circumstances and my observations about it later on. Suffice it to say, this scenario is very different and leaves a different impression than locations where there are actual enforcement of penalties for violating social distancing or mask-wearing requirements.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 44 guests