Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sat Jan 01, 2022 7:58 pm

^^^^^^^

Astute observations, drstrangelove.

------------------

alloneword » Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:58 pm wrote:The full interview is available here, if anyone's interested. All 3 hours of it.


Cheers, alloneword -- good to see you chiming in again.


https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1477 ... 67460.html

@Jonathan_Witt

Here’s a thread of cliff notes for the
@joerogan podcast with Dr Robert Malone. Would still recommend listening to the full episode but if you don’t have time right now this is how it went down.

...

Malone talks about becoming a MD and his early career working at the Salk Institute, specifically on RNA. Mentions his mRNA patents and his evolution from academic medicine into medical product development (clinical trials, drug development).
Over the years he says he’s coordinated trials which have received billions in Government funding. Claims he has worked with and knows many people at the CDC, knew Anthony Fauci well, and has many friends in the US intelligence community. Now “a pariah”.

Rogan brings up the Twitter ban. Malone says he’s probably the only person with his background without a conflict of interest - says he earns no money from this (unlike others).
Malone also mentions his deplatforming from LinkedIn for pointing out that the head of Reuters is also on the board of Pfizer. According to Malone LinkedIn subsequently reinstated him and formally apologized for the ban.

He surmises why exactly he was banned from Twitter - COVID Care Alliance video re COVID vaccines and/or a post about the World Economic Forum and their media management. Not completely understood or known at this time which was the offending tweet.

Malone discusses getting COVID in February 2020 and describes his “lungs burning”. Says he took femotidine. Describes a trial he has helped design using femotidine and celecoxib to treat SARS-CoV-2. Further says FDA would not allow an ivermectin arm in the study despite data.
Rogan wants to know why there is obstruction of these drugs (hydroxychloroquine & ivermectin). Malone describes the involvement of Rick Bright and Janet Woodcock in preventing the use of these drugs in the treatment of COVID. He won’t speculate on the why but says they’re wrong.
Malone says it is bizarre that Merck would come out against ivermectin. He says billions of doses of both hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin have been safely administered as well as both being on the WHO’s essential drugs list.


Malone says he got the Chinese protocols in February 2020 and these included hydroxychloroquine. Says he gave this information to the US Government. Rogan mentions the apparent success of ivermectin and asks what happened in Uttar Pradesh; high use of ivermectin & low deaths.

Malone says he had ‘Long COVID’ and then also took the Moderna vaccine because at the time it was thought that it may help with this issue. Claims he had some adverse reactions to the vaccine but despite these was ultimately fine.

Discussion briefly turns to natural immunity. Rogan mentions studies showing better effect of natural immunity versus these vaccines. Malone agrees.

Malone discusses the Trusted News Initiative led by the BBC and their charge against misinformation/disinformation and the use of the term anti-vaxxer to suppress anything against approved sources (Fauci, Tedros).

Discussion turns to cancel culture in the medical field. Previous example with Fauci vs. Duesberg and now leaked emails between Fauci/Collins aiming to ridicule Great Barrington Declaration founders.

Malone talks about Israel with high Pfizer vaccine uptake (up to dose 4) and surrounding Palestinian territories with relatively low uptake without this discrepancy being reflected in death numbers. Says all cause mortality is the most reliable variable.

Malone says VAERS is unreliable but “it’s the best we got”. Says there are issues both ways - death post vaccine not necessarily vaccine caused, vaccine correlated. However we’ve had the system for decades so we can look at trends and use aggregate value with large sample size.

Rogan asks about the financial incentive related to COVID deaths in hospitals. Malone admits he doesn’t know the exact numbers but says around $3000 given to hospitals if someone is diagnosed with COVID, further payments for ventilation and death due to COVID.
They discuss the possibility that someone with a gunshot wound or trauma who happens to test positive for COVID and then dies may be labeled as a COVID death.


Malone says the FDA has not done their job. Mentions data manipulation and the case of Maddie de Garay which was allegedly reported as gastric distress by Pfizer in their trial, when it is claimed she had a seizure and is now wheelchair bound.
Malone says their are all kinds of ways to craft clinical trials and study reports to hide the bad stuff and highlight the good stuff. Says what gets reported is often biased by expected outcomes and tricks of data. Financial incentives to make bad stuff go away.

Malone says Thompson-Reuters is the fact checker of choice of Twitter and they are in turn tied to Pfizer. This in part decides what is allowed to be discussed on Twitter.

They discuss the attacks on physicians. Highlight cases of Peter McCullough and Kirk Milhoan. Malone talks about the attack against him to have his license removed based on tweets and The Atlantic article written about him. Claims he “killed millions”.

Rogan brings them back to the statistics around vaccine related myocarditis. Malone says data shows incidence of up to 1 in 2700 of myocarditis in boys post vaccination. Claims that this myocarditis is different but he says no data. Also other adverse effects e.g. dysmenorrhea.

Malone discusses concerns around fertility post vaccination because of what he says are lipids (lipid nano particles) with the potential to affect the ovaries. Also talks about the spike protein and it’s ability to cause blood clots regardless of whether from virus or vaccine.

Extensive discussion about effects on ACEII receptors and disruption of the blood brain barrier by the spike protein. Rogan asks if the spike from the vaccine is different to the spike from the virus. Malone says yes but we don’t know if the difference actually matters.

Malone says it’s the job of the drug companies to prove that their spike i.e. vaccine created spike is not toxic. Rogan asks why so many people take the vaccine and have no adverse effects at all. Malone explains it with a response curve due to phenotypic/genetic differences.
He goes on to mention evidence that people who are diabetic or have high blood sugar levels seem to be more greatly affected by these spike side effects. This may be part of the explanation for many people being able to shrug off spike adverse effects, but not others.

Malone talks about T cells. Says we don’t really know for sure what these vaccines are doing to our T cells. Mentions cancer risks but cautions against lack of data. Also discusses some evidence for increased risk of illness post vaccination for a period of time.

Rogan asks about the vaccine efficacy window. Malone says it seems to be ever shrinking and goes on to mention that in some studies (cites Denmark study) there is a negative efficacy (higher risk of being infected) shown with increasing doses. Says this is specific to Omicron.
Malone says we’re administering a mismatched vaccine and driving the B and T memory cells towards a virus which no longer exists. Says his hypothesis for the poor viability of the vaccines on this basis is called “original antigenic sin”.

Malone talks about high pathogenicity and low pathogenicity H1N1 to describe in part the differences between other COVID variants and Omicron. Further discusses the very high R number (number of people infected by one person with a pathogen) of Omicron.
“Our government is out of control on this” says Malone. “They are lawless, they completely disregard bioethics” and “these mandates of an experimental vaccine are explicitly illegal, they are explicitly inconsistent with the Nuremberg Code”.

Rogan brings them back to Omicron. Malone talks about the alarmist models of Imperial College which he says the press just ran with. They talk about US hospital cases and the likely remaining predominance of Delta in those instances.

Malone says there is a perverse incentive to amplify the fear porn to maintain the state of emergency. Withholding of monoclonal antibodies and early treatment described as “inexplicable”. “Is it incompetence or is it malevolence?”.

Malone raises the lack of reporting on effectiveness of lockdown strategies as well as gain of function research and says “we’re in an environment in which truth and consequences are fungible”. Rogan says he feels compelled to have people on because of the censorship.

Malone says “Pfizer is one of the most criminal pharmaceutical organizations in the world based on their past history and fines”. He says it’s a cost benefit analysis in the pharmaceutical industry about misbehavior and that they are not grounded in ethical principles.

Rogan and Malone discuss the “mass formation psychosis” taking place globally. Quite a soft wind down to the end of the show but essentially a call for less tribalism, more openness to discussion, and an end to censorship.

A warning from both about the potential for an implementation of a social credit scoring system as an end point for all of this. Malone re-emphasizes the effect of what we’ve done to children including he says drops in IQ from masks and desocialization.

Rogan asks why the vaccine is dangerous to children. Malone says androgens have a role to play re effect in males. Also says that he’s not convinced that there is a discrepancy between kids and adults - cites potential reporting bias.

An interesting podcast if a bit meandering at times. Malone might be wrong about stuff or perhaps he’s right but he doesn’t come across as a nutjob or someone dangerous in any way. Still quite fascinating that Twitter banned him for hard to elucidate reasons.

END

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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:44 am

stickdog99 » 02 Jan 2022 07:11 wrote:
I teach medical school students critical reading, critical thinking, scientific reasoning, psychology, sociology, and occasionally public health. That's what I do for a living. What do you do, Joe?

Here's what I meant by "really".

Is it really your actual first response to the entire Ruechel thesis to try to dilute its impact by nitpicking at every single claim in it before you even finished reading it? Really? Is the cognitive dissonance so great that you felt the need nitpick it line by line before even finishing the article? Really?

I'm surprised by the bold cos you rarely seem to question the things you post or respond to my criticisms of them. Maybe you should try applying the sort of stuff you teach to the things you post in here. You seem like you're heavily burdened by confirmation bias.

As for what I do for a living, don't bother asking. I live as far outside the system as I can and it gets harder to do it every year.

I read about three quarters of that Ruechel thing before I thought "I'm not reading any more, this is garbage."

I was gonna leave it there. Like I do so often with some of the shit that gets posted in this thread. But then I thought "fuck it" and decided to go thru the whole thing. Except its not the whole thing, its just the things he has wrong about till I got insanely bored. These things are inaccurate and he weaves them thru his argument to sustain it. Its flawed.

What is his actual thesis?

Yes booster shots are pointless, except maybe for some people and Covid zero won't happen.

Well d'uh. You don't need thirty pages of bullshit to support that claim.

Seriously so much of what is posted on this thread has the same tone. There must be some sort of Grammerly for self important wankers who are fucken rapt at being able to tell us how they've got it all figured out on all of their typing devices, or in their bloody heads!!

All of these articles have the same pompous self righteous tone, the same disjointed structure then when you tease them apart and check everything very little of substance to justify all the fucken words.

For example this:

This is clearly a gross oversimplification of all the different interconnected parts of our immune system, but the point is that a mild infection doesn't trigger as many layers whereas a severe infection enlists the help of deeper layers, which are slower to respond but are much more specialized in their attack capabilities. And if those deeper adaptive layers get involved, they are capable of retaining a memory of the threat in order to be able to mount a quicker attack if a repeat attack is recognized in the future.

As far as I'm aware that's not accurate. Its an oversimplification and doesn't tell the whole story. Infection and vaccination both trigger the deeper layers of the immune system, as he puts it (altho broader is a better term than deeper and its more dimensionally accurate,) and covid is a novel infection. Its new to our systems as humans so we will naturally recruit a broader immune response as it'll be around for longer in naive immune systems. The only difference with vaccines and infection is the thing triggering an immune response isn't reproducing at an uncontrolled rate.

The other things he's talking about - that generate a simple quick immune response from the "shallower" (His term not mine) end of the immune response - they are there to respond to things that are usually a potential threat. Ie the immune systems of the people he's referring to aren't naive to the infections they are sposed to be fighting.

First time immune responses take a long time and end up needing a broader response from more elements of the immune system because they take a long time. By the time your body builds the antibodies it needs it also needs T cells to go kill infected cells all over the place for example.

The whole thing is full of that. I spent over an hour reading it, an hour and a half responding to it and I didn't even finish.

How are people sposed to counter bullshit when its on an industrial scale like that?

Anyway relax, if you're vaccinated you don't need boosters. Its a marketing con.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:35 am

Belligerent Savant » 02 Jan 2022 05:22 wrote:.



One other noteworthy item:

https://www.health.gov.au/initiatives-a ... ims-scheme

COVID-19 vaccine claims scheme
The Australian Government is developing a claims scheme to reimburse people who suffer a moderate to significant impact following an adverse reaction to an approved COVID-19 vaccine.


Yeah this is interesting hey.

Its really hard to find the terms of the contracts we have signed with vaccine providers. They are termed "Commercial in confidence" and actually leaking them would be seen as a national security threat under pre vaccine laws similar to the one the UK just passed. Its been around for a while and I'm sure I had a whinge on here about why it was capped at $20K when people died from TCS and other thrombosis related events. There is now a section available for people claiming over $20K that includes the families of the dead people.

BTW There is no excess death data for Australia from heart disease in the period post our vaccine rollout. There were no excess deaths. So the number of vaccine related deaths in Australia seems to be staying at 9.

Also ... everyone who is vaccinated needs to wait 15 minutes before they can leave the place of vaccination. This is to monitpr for anaphylactic shock, which can kill people if untreated. Everyone knew this, its a potenially serious side effect and seemed to happen about once every 25000 people who had adenovector vaccines and twice as often for mRNA vaccines. people are given a list of info about how to notice potential blood clots etc after vaccine.

I'm just putting that out there because there is alot of talk about how these vaccines were "safe". In Australia many of these risks were public knowledge. (Not heart inflammation from mRNA vax tho.) SO the idea that they were "perfectly safe" isn't true. They were risky but that risk seemed small compared to the risk of serious complications or death from covid.

Finally....

All federal/govt-imposed policies/mandates and forced medical interventions have failed spectacularly at 'ending' covid*. Yes, that includes lockdowns, clearly. In Australia, lockdowns may have worked temporarily, but it was hubris/foolish to expect wide-scale lockdown to be successful over time, or sustainable. In any event, the key point with all these govt interventions is proportionality, or lack thereof. As in: were ANY of these measures/mandates proportional, or reasonable relative to actual risk to the majority? Of course not.

So they do work. Glad people noticed...

They weren't meant to be a long term solution tho. The lockdowns "flattened the curve" and "stopped the spread". In cities with infection rates similar to Melbourne and Sydney (ie at 700 cases per day) in the US and UK infection rates skyrocketed and the death rates were shitloads higher.

But .... was the price worth it? I dunno. I don't live in the city (and one of the reasons I went bush nearly 30 years ago was the potential for a shitful pandemic and facsist response.) People I know who do are in two minds. And we probably wouldn't have been able to do it without being on an island that allowed very limited travel from overseas.

As to the risk to the majority - its the risk to a minority. I'm glad we put them before the economy, whatever the cost. This pandemic and the lockdowns didn't change anything. The wealth and power imbalance was always there. Its put attention on it now, brought it into stark contrast with most people's lives and we will need some sort of response or we will get fucked over hard.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:52 am

drstrangelove » 02 Jan 2022 09:33 wrote:
in Australia it's the United Australia Party funded by one of our mining billionaires, Clive Palmer. Who just so happens to be gung-ho for war with China. UAP is gaining a lot of support as no other party is challenging it as an alternative populist movement. Problem is, they will eventually churn all this support into a very dangerous hawkish foreign policy platform.


Palmer is a Liberal Party Plant. Watch him closely and see what the effect of his party is on these elections. It'll funnel votes to the Libs.

Victoria's leader Dan Andrews is signed up to the Rockefeller resilient cities program. We have a new Center for Resilience (quarantine camp). Our restrictions have been relaxed for now, but the vaccine passports and pandemic legislation which has been passed remains, only dormant. We still have a public servant with the title "Covid Commander", a young British technocrat from the London School of Economics, which of course ties into that other RI thread on the Fabians and Labor Party.


The LSE is okay. They gave David Graeber tenure didn't they?
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Harvey » Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:31 am

Joe Hillshoist » Sat Jan 01, 2022 5:25 am wrote:Before we go any further can you do me a favour?

Explain what you think my position is on covid? The whole thing fro day one.


I haven't a clue what you think about Covid.

Some impressions... You embody most of the criticisms you level at others, cherry picking, selective omission of facts, formation of opinions which do not accommodate all the known facts, only the facts you prefer and so on. You're fond of stating your scientific prowess. You rarely engage with the work, data and opinions of the large body of scientists who are acknowledged to have considerably more scientific accomplishment than anything you've provided in your CV (so far) except to attack their character. You sometimes address a journalistic interpretation as though you have successfully attacked the data through some semblance of scientific method.

I'm guilty of some of these things some of the time too. I certainly don't claim to be the only one capable of understanding or interpreting complex facts. I don't generally conclude that others are useful idiots because they have referenced information only or mostly available in a popular form or through political opponents, in a time of mass censorship.*

Why do you ask?

*And in a time of mass self-censorship, or 'mass formation' if you prefer.

--------

alloneword » Sat Jan 01, 2022 11:58 pm wrote:The full interview is available here, if anyone's interested. All 3 hours of it.


Excellent! Cheers mate. Very enjoyable discussion, clear, methodical and a good overview of where we are.
Last edited by Harvey on Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:04 pm

Joe Hillshoist » Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:52 am wrote:
The LSE is okay. They gave David Graeber tenure didn't they?


Welcome to 2022. Eat Brawndo. It's got what plants crave.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby drstrangelove » Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:17 pm

Joe Hillshoist » Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:52 am wrote:
Palmer is a Liberal Party Plant. Watch him closely and see what the effect of his party is on these elections. It'll funnel votes to the Libs.


Good. Labor has no business running the country given the what their State leaders have done.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:10 pm

I'm surprised by the bold cos you rarely seem to question the things you post or respond to my criticisms of them. Maybe you should try applying the sort of stuff you teach to the things you post in here. You seem like you're heavily burdened by confirmation bias.


What I seen instead is an entire world ablaze with the unholy confirmation bias that anything called a vaccine is inherently awesome no matter what the data say and that anything done to penalize the unvaccinated is also inherently awesome no matter how many human rights of the unvaccinated (or not boostered enough) are trampled in the pursuit of this punishment.

So color me not just unimpressed but actually thoroughly disillusioned by your lack of outrage against your own government's actions, which are by far among the worst excesses worldwide, especially when you consider the paucity of the threat. For example, what is the age of the average Australian who has perished while also testing positive for COVID-19 to date?

What is his actual thesis?


Well, the part that I liked was the undeniable argument that any sane person looking at this from the start without confirmation bias had to know that a mass vaccination campaign with leaky vaccines of healthy people with healthy immune systems not at risk of suffering any severe COVID-19 outcomes would almost certainly do more harm than good.

Yes booster shots are pointless, except maybe for some people and Covid zero won't happen.


Well, boosters are already being mandated where I live. How about where you live? And if COVID zero won't happen, what justification does Australia have for all of its heavy handed COVID-zero authoritarianism to date?

Seriously so much of what is posted on this thread has the same tone. There must be some sort of Grammerly for self important wankers who are fucken rapt at being able to tell us how they've got it all figured out on all of their typing devices, or in their bloody heads!!


Interesting. And what about all the millions of people who instead spend every hour of every waking day trying to dream up exciting new ways to punish the unclean unvaccinated?

What is actually in these vaccines that makes so many millions love nothing better than to spend every waking hour thinking up new sadistic ways to punish and torture anybody who doesn't trust Big Pharma just as much as they do? And why are so many so willing to relinquish any medical right they once had in pursuit of these endless punishments of the unvaccinated, especially considering that they can get COVID-19 just as easily from a vaccinated person?

All of these articles have the same pompous self righteous tone, the same disjointed structure then when you tease them apart and check everything very little of substance to justify all the fucken words.


No one is more pompous and self righteous than the vaccinated and boosted millions admonishing the unclean unvaccinated whom they have already banished from schools, workplaces, and all social gatherings.

For example this:

This is clearly a gross oversimplification of all the different interconnected parts of our immune system, but the point is that a mild infection doesn't trigger as many layers whereas a severe infection enlists the help of deeper layers, which are slower to respond but are much more specialized in their attack capabilities. And if those deeper adaptive layers get involved, they are capable of retaining a memory of the threat in order to be able to mount a quicker attack if a repeat attack is recognized in the future.

As far as I'm aware that's not accurate. Its an oversimplification and doesn't tell the whole story. Infection and vaccination both trigger the deeper layers of the immune system, as he puts it (altho broader is a better term than deeper and its more dimensionally accurate,) and covid is a novel infection. Its new to our systems as humans so we will naturally recruit a broader immune response as it'll be around for longer in naive immune systems. The only difference with vaccines and infection is the thing triggering an immune response isn't reproducing at an uncontrolled rate.

The other things he's talking about - that generate a simple quick immune response from the "shallower" (His term not mine) end of the immune response - they are there to respond to things that are usually a potential threat. Ie the immune systems of the people he's referring to aren't naive to the infections they are sposed to be fighting.

First time immune responses take a long time and end up needing a broader response from more elements of the immune system because they take a long time. By the time your body builds the antibodies it needs it also needs T cells to go kill infected cells all over the place for example.

The whole thing is full of that.


Full of what? Oversimplifications that are clearly labeled as such and analogies that can be questioned and nitpicked?

Let me apply this to your writing:

First time immune responses take a long time and end up needing a broader response from more elements of the immune system because they take a long time. By the time your body builds the antibodies it needs it also needs T cells to go kill infected cells all over the place for example.

Wrong!

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33177214/

Robust innate responses characterized by increases in activated CD14+ CD16+ monocytes and cytokine responses were observed as early as 2 days after symptom onset. Cellular and humoral severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS)-CoV-2-specific adaptive responses were detectable in all patients. Infectious virus shedding was limited to the first week after symptom onset. A strong innate response, characterized by mobilization of activated monocytes during the first days of infection and SARS-CoV-2-specific antibodies, was detectable even in patients with mild disease.

Ha ha!!! What you wrote was total bullshit on an industrial scale!!!

Anyway relax, if you're vaccinated you don't need boosters. Its a marketing con.


But I will need them by February if I want to attend any large scale social gatherings in San Francisco. And they have already been mandated on my medical school students. Isn't that alarming to you?
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:45 pm

https://justthenews.com/nation/states/i ... ages-18-64

The head of OneAmerica insurance said the death rate is up a stunning 40% from pre-pandemic levels among working-age people.

We are seeing, right now, the highest death rates we have seen in the history of this business – not just at OneAmerica,” the company’s CEO Scott Davison said during an online news conference this week. “The data is consistent across every player in that business.”

OneAmerica is a $100 billion insurance company that has had its headquarters in Indianapolis since 1877. The company has approximately 2,400 employees and sells life insurance, including group life insurance to employers in the state.

Davison said the increase in deaths represents “huge, huge numbers,” and that’s it’s not elderly people who are dying, but “primarily working-age people 18 to 64” who are the employees of companies that have group life insurance plans through OneAmerica.

“And what we saw just in third quarter, we’re seeing it continue into fourth quarter, is that death rates are up 40% over what they were pre-pandemic,” he said.

“Just to give you an idea of how bad that is, a three-sigma or a one-in-200-year catastrophe would be 10% increase over pre-pandemic,” he said. “So 40% is just unheard of.”

Davison was one of several business leaders who spoke during the virtual news conference on Dec. 30 that was organized by the Indiana Chamber of Commerce.

Most of the claims for deaths being filed are not classified as COVID-19 deaths, Davison said.

“What the data is showing to us is that the deaths that are being reported as COVID deaths greatly understate the actual death losses among working-age people from the pandemic. It may not all be COVID on their death certificate, but deaths are up just huge, huge numbers.”

He said at the same time, the company is seeing an “uptick” in disability claims, saying at first it was short-term disability claims, and now the increase is in long-term disability claims.

“For OneAmerica, we expect the costs of this are going to be well over $100 million, and this is our smallest business. So it’s having a huge impact on that,” he said.

He said the costs will be passed on to employers purchasing group life insurance policies, who will have to pay higher premiums.

The CDC weekly death counts, which reflect the information on death certificates and so have a lag of up to eight weeks or longer, show that for the week ending Nov. 6, there were far fewer deaths from COVID-19 in Indiana compared to a year ago – 195 verses 336 – but more deaths from other causes – 1,350 versus 1,319.

These deaths were for people of all ages, however, while the information referenced by Davison was for working-age people who are employees of businesses with group life insurance policies.

At the same news conference where Davison spoke, Brian Tabor, the president of the Indiana Hospital Association, said that hospitals across the state are being flooded with patients “with many different conditions,” saying “unfortunately, the average Hoosiers’ health has declined during the pandemic.”

In a follow-up call, he said he did not have a breakdown showing why so many people in the state are being hospitalized – for what conditions or ailments. But he said the extraordinarily high death rate quoted by Davison matched what hospitals in the state are seeing.

"What it confirmed for me is it bore out what we're seeing on the front end
,..." he said.

The number of hospitalizations in the state is now higher than before the COVID-19 vaccine was introduced a year ago, and in fact is higher than it’s been in the past five years, Dr. Lindsay Weaver, Indiana’s chief medical officer, said at a news conference with Gov. Eric Holcomb on Wednesday.

Just 8.9% of ICU beds are available at hospitals in the state, a low for the year, and lower than at any time during the pandemic. But the majority of ICU beds are not taken up by COVID-19 patients – just 37% are, while 54% of the ICU beds are being occupied by people with other illnesses or conditions.

The state's online dashboard shows that the moving average of daily deaths from COVID-19 is less than half of what it was a year ago. At the pandemic's peak a year ago, 125 people died on one day – on Dec. 29, 2020. In the last three months, the highest number of deaths in one day was 58, on Dec. 13.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Harvey » Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:49 pm

Did anyone post this clip of WHO Director Tedros yet? It's difficult to imagine an innocent slip of the tongue except perhaps 'cure' (or possibly 'kids') but nobody is arguing that boosters are a cure. Are they? What does he appear to be saying to you guys?

"Some countries are using [to give] boosters to kill children... which is not right,"


Short clip and context here: https://www.bitchute.com/video/121tvQuVXkeG/
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:55 am

.
Since Zizek and Taleb were raised here a few pages back.


@77_steeze

why are Slavoj Zizek, Nassim Taleb and Sam Harris the stupidest dudes out there right now?
10:36 PM · Jan 2, 2022

...

Replying to
@77_steeze

so many of the people i naively envied, i see how captive they now are to the clubs i thought we all wanted to join. so many have become tools, indistinguishable from the worst, you get chills thinking you'd have become a zombie just like them if you made it to that milieu

...

Replying to
@77_steeze

They’re all making craazy emotional arguments that cave upon the first prodding

...

@77_steeze
·
oh yeah, It’s just funny that all of these guys are known “smart” guys who clearly enjoy that reputation at a time when everyone is supposed to “believe experts” etc. of course nobody like this would have a dissenting take. This is a time for smart guys to get their balls washed



https://twitter.com/77_steeze/status/14 ... 66369?s=20
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby drstrangelove » Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:53 am

seems to be the implicit individualism of refusing to participate in a greater good(vaccination) that disgusts many modern leftwing philosophers. they see it as an extension of the personality traits derived of the profit-motive, or the greed and selfishness of 'capitalism' personified socially. basically anti-social behaviour. no need to point out the ironies here. there's also a good reason why we know the names of all these modern philosophers and not others. if you go to any bookstore these days, 80% of the books on the shelves will be published by penguin or a subsidiary of penguin. if you spend a day going from book store to book store, you'll find they all have exactly the same books ordered from the same catalogues. i won't get into it, but this is the cultural legacy of the illuminati. imagine a sea of knowledge all around you cloaked in darkness, with a lighthouse illuminating a single point of view. within that single point of view there may be a diversity of things, but they all keep within that one spectrum of light. and that one spectrum expands as a beam from a single source. where does it come from, who is the wickie? marx or nietzsche or hegel or filippo buonarroti or hobbes or bacon or ovid or plato or pythagorus or orpheus or zarathustra or some unknown babylonian. don't spill yer beans.

the highly specialised expert of our modern era has been given a light of narrow spectrum but high intensity, like a laser. they are laser focused. which explains all the shipwrecks.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:39 am

@GarretKramer

Please consider that those who decline Covid shots and do their best to defend our collective right to choose are not automatically Trump supporters. Where does this ridiculous connection even come from? I, for one, am a liberal. I've always been a liberal. I cherish liberty!

My grandparents were freedom riders, my parents lauded MLK, JFK, RFK, I've been pro-choice and spoken out in opposition to prejudice and authoritarianism my entire adult life, I raised my children to serve others of which careers they've now chosen. What the heck is going on?

I am warning you that there are devious elements of society that seek to divide, injure, and control at your expense. This is not the first time. But it very well may be the last unless you stand up. Again, stop worrying about Trump. He’s not the issue right now. Not even close.

https://twitter.com/GarretKramer/status ... 72034?s=20
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Jan 03, 2022 12:22 pm

.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1477 ... 82593.html



We are unquestionably, undeniably, per policy counting deaths WITH Covid and not from it, and have been doing so the entire time. I will lay out evidence demonstrating that this is not a matter of opinion or subjective interpretation, this is 100% objective reality


In early 2020 a group from an association of epidemiologists (CSTE) proposed a case definition for SARS-CoV2 which would establish the criteria by which someone could be identified (or ruled out) and reported as a Covid case.

https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.cste.org/reso ... -19_NO.pdf

It was adopted almost in full by the CDC, officially published April 5 2020 and updated twice since then. Most of the report concerns "probable cases," or how to report someone as positive without a lab test to confirm.

https://ndc.services.cdc.gov/conditions ... -covid-19/

"Confirmed cases" were less complicated: simply testing positive by PCR. However its simplicity also meant that all positive PCR tests were confirmed cases, regardless of symptoms or any illness in the patient.

Image

It also means if any of those "confirmed cases" died, they fell into the category of "confirmed death."

We'll see that this is inferred policy. The only part of the CDC's guidelines that mentions death deals with "probable death" without a history of testing.

Image

Since Trump left it up to each state to come up with their own policies, each state and sometimes individual counties came up with details how to comply with the CDC's guidelines for reporting.

Most states crafted policies using the exact language of the CDC. However, confirmed deaths weren't clarified by the CDC.

If a confirmed case is in relation to a positive PCR test, how much time can pass before somebody's death for them to qualify as "confirmed death"?

This was determined by public health. For example, Florida's public health essentially copy-pasted the CDC's definition and has not specified an interval of time between testing and death to qualify or not qualify as Covid death.

http://www.floridahealth.gov/diseases-a ... nition.pdf

Image

Some states, like NJ here, haven't even copy-pasted the CDC's verbiage. They simply put a link to the CSTE definition adopted by the CDC, which again states that a confirmed case/death is a positive test, nothing more.

https://covid19.nj.gov/

Image

Most places that I've found who report their Covid data are like this, either linking to or reprinting what the CDC has stipulated. But some states have gone a little further with their case definitions and reporting requirements.

NYC Health Dept for example has stated that a "Confirmed death" is any death within 60 days of a positive PCR. Thus "confirmed" does not refer to having confirmed a cause of death, just a prior positive test

https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/cov ... otals.page

Image

Now, my own state of Oregon's policy is similar but with a twist. Here a Covid death (officially "Covid-19-related death") is a death within 60 days of a positive test, or 60 days of onset of symptoms in the absence of a test (probable case).

https://www.oregon.gov/oha/PH/DISEASESC ... s-2019.pdf

here's the twist: all hospitalized cases who die 60 days AFTER discharge FOR ANY REASON is a Covid death. Bonus twist: anybody who tests positive up to 2 weeks prior to hospitalization or anytime during is a "Covid hospitalization," no matter reason for admission

Image

In LA County, where last I checked there were 5 times as many "Covid deaths" as the next deadliest county, Providers are required to report the death of any person within 90 days of a positive PCR test. Again, there is no relation to cause of death.

http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/acd/nc ... htm#deaths

Image

And then there's Colorado. CO Public Health's FAQ page states explicitly that they count deaths with Covid.

They ask themselves: Why count deaths with Covid if CoV didn't cause it? --Because all states do it, it's how the CDC wants it reported.

https://covid19.colorado.gov/frequently ... stions-faq

Image

This ties in also with the way deaths are often described across media and government reports.

Covid-19 associated deaths
Covid-19 related deaths
Deaths connected to Covid-19

In their weekly provisional death count, the CDC officially counts "deaths involving Covid-19".

Image

** completely as an aside, in case anyone's wondering why the same "deaths involving" language is used about flu & pneumonia in the previous CDC graphic, I haven't done much research into it, but here's some insight into flu data gathering.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/healt ... 2004220148

Image

Very early on some leaders were asked to account for these guidelines, or at the very least clarify them. Under Trump, Dr. Birx was chief physician of the WH Coronavirus Task Force. She clarified the CDC's guidelines.



Some may have seen Dr. Ngozi Ezike, director of Illinois Public Health, explain how the state of Illinois was gathering its data

"...Covid death doesn't mean that that was the cause of death, but that they had Covid at the time of death".



...

Earlier I mentioned the CDC's weekly provisional death count, updated every Wednesday. There's a section that deals with comorbidities appearing on death certificates of Covid-related deaths.

Image

notice on that comorbidity page how pneumonia is associated with fewer than half the deaths credited to a respiratory virus. Also on the list were ~90k alz/dementia patients, for whom pneumonia is the #1 cause of death.

In Dec 2020 the CDC published an expanded comorbidity report for weeks ending 2/1/2020 - 12/5/2020. They listed every single condition from the 255,508 death certificates of individuals reported to Public Health as Covid deaths at that time.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/health_po ... 20-508.pdf

Image

All the people with cancer, renal failure, cardiovascular disease, neurovascular disease - you can read about them in the weekly update.

The December report showed, for example, how many people had foreign objects in their respiratory tract (also known as choking).

Image

which proves nothing one way or another.

Neither does this sampling of drug overdoses among those people whose deaths are associated with Covid-19.

Image

People experiencing organ transplant failure and rejection are a harder sell for me that Covid is at fault

Image


Here are the accidents that 5 months earlier Dr. Ezike said IDPH was removing from the tally. Car accidents, motorcycle accidents, heavy truck and bus accidents, both pedestrians and drivers. Each get their own ICD-10 code


Image
Image

A fair number of people fell from a fair number of objects.

I challenge somebody to explain to me the role Covid played in these people's drownings

Image

If somebody told you that included among Covid deaths you'll find people who committed suicide...

They told you the truth!

Image

Would you think I'm crazy if I said there's an unambiguous homicide on the list of Covid deaths?

What if I said it was a terrorist chemical weapon attack?
How would you respond?

Image

When you start to dig deeper into media case reports, details emerge that make the picture clearer. Take for example when MI public health announced the death of a 2-month-old from COVID-19 to illustrate the danger to young ppl (just like in CT)

You would have to stitch together from multiple sources that the baby was born with intestines outside of his body, had extensive surgery, perforated bowel + infection, necrotizing enterocolitis, aspirated on his vomit, died

had "GI symptoms of Covid"

Mom took to FB:

Image

Nothing I've shown here should be over anybody's head. Everything is relatively simple to understand.

I want to quickly cover death certificate attribution, and I promise this will be just as easy to follow as everything else..

The "Cause of Death" section of a death certificate has two parts: Parts I & II

source: Cause of Death & the Death Certificate, College of American Pathologists.

https://www.health.state.mn.us/people/v ... odbook.pdf

Image

...




Continued at link. Too much to copy/paste here.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby alloneword » Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:52 pm

^^ He finishes with:

Britons you're welcome to join the conversation

this affects you too.
Is your Covid death policy common knowledge in the UK?


Well, see... in England they're good enough to put it all in one handy table for us (updated each week);

Image

Which can also be compared with the 'official tally':

Image

Quite how many ever look at it is another matter.

And that's all without getting into the whole issue of 'cycle threshold' and the number of gene targets employed with the PCR tests.

The 'Covid' stats are a total confection. All of them.
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