Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Wed May 10, 2023 1:59 pm

Joe Hillshoist » 10 May 2023 08:15 wrote:
Belligerent Savant » 10 May 2023 01:55 wrote:
But the key point here is what stickdog touches on:
stickdog99 » Tue May 09, 2023 8:51 am wrote:And thus there never should have been any mandates nor any exclusions from any jobs or any travel or any anything for the unvaccinated.

Right?


Did you miss the bit about workplaces having to protect their employees from covid as per the Australian High or Federal Court. There's a case before the courts now about vaccine injury but the court already found workplaces liable in the event of death from covid caught at work.

So what about a workplace that wants to avoid that particular legal risk? Are they not free to decide not to employ or serve unvaccinated people to protect their own workers and customers and themselves from legal liability?

Don't forget that your opinion on how effective vaccines are etc etc isn't shared by the courts (and you actually may be wrong about your assumptions and beliefs in this case... or not but its kind of irrelevant to what the courts deciding the matter believe.)


So you let the courts determine your moral identity? What stage would Kohlberg put you in?
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Wed May 10, 2023 10:28 pm

How many 'adults' since 2020 essentially operated within the "pre-conventional" mode of moral development? Many that may have 'graduated' from pre-conventional stages operated within "good boy" [Good German] constructs.

This is not entirely applicable as the below chart does not include FEAR as a primary driver, which unfortunately caused far too many to devolve into child-like mental states.


Image

Level 1 – Preconventional Morality
At the preconventional level, children don’t have a personal code of morality. Instead, moral decisions are shaped by the standards of adults and the consequences of following or breaking their rules.

For example, if an action leads to punishment, it must be bad, and if it leads to a reward, it must be good.

Authority is outside the individual, and children often make moral decisions based on the physical consequences of actions.

Level 2 – Conventional Morality
Conventional morality is the second stage of moral development, and is characterized by an acceptance of social rules concerning right and wrong.

At the conventional level (most adolescents and adults), we begin to internalize the moral standards of valued adult role models.

Authority is internalized but not questioned, and reasoning is based on the norms of the group to which the person belongs.

A social system that stresses the responsibilities of relationships as well as social order is seen as desirable and must, therefore, influence our view of what is right and wrong.

...

Only 10-15% are capable of abstract thinking necessary for stage 5 or 6 (post-conventional morality). That is to say, most people take their moral views from those around them, and only a minority think through ethical principles for themselves.

https://www.simplypsychology.org/kohlberg.html
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Thu May 11, 2023 6:40 am

stickdog99 » 11 May 2023 03:59 wrote:
Joe Hillshoist » 10 May 2023 08:15 wrote:
Belligerent Savant » 10 May 2023 01:55 wrote:
But the key point here is what stickdog touches on:
stickdog99 » Tue May 09, 2023 8:51 am wrote:And thus there never should have been any mandates nor any exclusions from any jobs or any travel or any anything for the unvaccinated.

Right?


Did you miss the bit about workplaces having to protect their employees from covid as per the Australian High or Federal Court. There's a case before the courts now about vaccine injury but the court already found workplaces liable in the event of death from covid caught at work.

So what about a workplace that wants to avoid that particular legal risk? Are they not free to decide not to employ or serve unvaccinated people to protect their own workers and customers and themselves from legal liability?

Don't forget that your opinion on how effective vaccines are etc etc isn't shared by the courts (and you actually may be wrong about your assumptions and beliefs in this case... or not but its kind of irrelevant to what the courts deciding the matter believe.)


So you let the courts determine your moral identity? What stage would Kohlberg put you in?


Why are you saying I do this?
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Elvis » Thu May 11, 2023 11:25 am

It's over.

End of the Federal COVID-19 Public Health Emergency

May 11, 2023, marks the end of the federal COVID-19 PHE declaration.







lock thread? :wink
“The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.” ― Joan Robinson
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Thu May 11, 2023 4:31 pm

Elvis » 11 May 2023 15:25 wrote:It's over.

End of the Federal COVID-19 Public Health Emergency

May 11, 2023, marks the end of the federal COVID-19 PHE declaration.







lock thread? :wink




Take a run to the Canyon Bridge
People living in a river bed
Dogs bark on the ridge
In a mockery of the things I said
Maybe I'll get a job 'round here
Run the lights in a discotech
Food is good and the girls are clear
Enough to keep my heart in check
But I won't have a stereo
So I can't play your favorite song
Burn the book where I keep my notes
About the way that I did you wrong, you wrong

This could be the kind of place
Where I pretend that I fit in
No one asks me who I am
What I've done
Where I've been
Hang around for a couple of years
‘Til the coast is clear, movin' ‘long
You'll never find me here
We'll let the bygones be gone, be gone

Head down to the local bar
Wish that I could drink that bottle there
Hang around with the movie stars
But the movie stars said I drank my share
Maybe I could find a girl who doesn't know what I put you through
Treat her like the queen of the world
Forget the way I treated you
Late at night when I call your name
She won't have to understand
About the ropes and all my hopes
Just how sorry that I am, that I am

This could be the kind of place
Where I pretend that I fit in
No one asks me who I am
What I've done
Where I've been
Hang around for a couple of years
‘Til the coast is clear, movin' ‘long
You'll never find me here
We'll let the bygones be gone, be gone
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Thu May 11, 2023 6:46 pm

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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Thu May 11, 2023 7:08 pm

Yet another study shows that the more COVID injections you get, the more likely it is for you to get COVID.

Image

Ineffectiveness of the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) Bivalent Vaccine

Background

The purpose of this study was to evaluate whether a bivalent COVID-19 vaccine protects against COVID-19.

Methods

Employees of Cleveland Clinic in employment when the bivalent COVID-19 vaccine first became available, were included. Cumulative incidence of COVID-19 over the following 26 weeks was examined. Protection provided by vaccination (analyzed as a time-dependent covariate) was evaluated using Cox proportional hazards regression, with change in dominant circulating lineages over time accounted for by time-dependent coefficients. The analysis was adjusted for the pandemic phase when the last prior COVID-19 episode occurred, and the number of prior vaccine doses.

Results

Among 51,017 employees, COVID-19 occurred in 4424 (8.7%) during the study. In multivariable analysis, the bivalent vaccinated state was associated with lower risk of COVID-19 during the BA.4/5 dominant (HR, .71; 95% C.I., .63-.79) and the BQ dominant (HR, .80; 95% C.I., .69-.94) phases, but decreased risk was not found during the XBB dominant phase (HR, .96; 95% C.I., .82-.1.12). Estimated vaccine effectiveness (VE) was 29% (95% C.I., 21%-37%), 20% (95% C.I., 6%-31%), and 4% (95% C.I., -12%-18%), during the BA.4/5, BQ, and XBB dominant phases, respectively. Risk of COVID-19 also increased with time since most recent prior COVID-19 episode and with the number of vaccine doses previously received.

Conclusions

The bivalent COVID-19 vaccine given to working-aged adults afforded modest protection overall against COVID-19 while the BA.4/5 lineages were the dominant circulating strains, afforded less protection when the BQ lineages were dominant, and effectiveness was not demonstrated when the XBB lineages were dominant (meaning for all of 2023).

Summary

Among 51017 working-aged Cleveland Clinic employees, the bivalent COVID-19 vaccine was 29% effective in preventing infection while the BA.4/5 lineages were dominant, and 20% effective while the BQ lineages were. Effectiveness was not demonstrated when the XBB lineages were dominant (meaning for all of 2023).
Last edited by stickdog99 on Thu May 11, 2023 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Thu May 11, 2023 8:41 pm

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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Thu May 11, 2023 8:45 pm

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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri May 12, 2023 9:11 am

André Picard
@picardonhealth

There is no contradiction. I support strong vaccine mandates, especially for health workers. They remain free to refuse vaccination — and live with the consequences. Individual rights are not unlimited; they must be balanced against the rights of others.

Darshan Maharaja
@TheophanesRex

Mr. Picard,

Your statement on August 23, 2021 contradicts your claim on May 11, 2023:


Image
Image


...

Michael Thomlinson
@miket136
·
Replying to @NatashaMontreal @AshLaughs79 and @picardonhealth

He doesn’t believe in forcing anyone, just coercing them with “hardcore” mandates.

You can choose not to take the shot, and losing everything is apparently a fair consequence. There’s no balance there.

He’s a ghoul, beyond redemption.

...

Natasha Montreal Live Free or Die
@NatashaMontreal

The only thing worse than supporting medical tyranny is trying to obfuscate your position and revise history later.

You could take this opportunity to mea culpa and do some serious soul searching. But you won't and are therefore richly deserving of the heaps of scorn and contempt you are receiving.

...

Mark Changizi
@MarkChangizi
·
Replying to @picardonhealth

“Get the jab or you’re fired and banished is not “free to refuse.”
...

Deplorable Habs Fan
@DeplorableHab
·
100% this. Anyone willing to admit they were wrong, and just say "I was scared I over reacted I'm sorry" Gets all the credit and respect in the world from me, not an easy thing to do. Anyone who just doubles down or tries to change history is an inexcusable trash bag. Simple as.

...

https://twitter.com/picardonhealth/stat ... 16485?s=20
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Fri May 12, 2023 9:23 am

There is no contradiction. I support strong vaccine mandates, especially for health workers. They remain free to refuse vaccination — and live with the consequences. Individual rights are not unlimited; they must be balanced against the rights of others.


Translation: You have no individual rights in the face of my fear of contagion and my blind faith that forcing you to be injected with any product that Big Pharma gets to market as a vaccine will protect me from contagion.
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Fri May 12, 2023 1:19 pm

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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Sat May 13, 2023 1:42 pm

The Four Pillars of Medical Ethics Were Destroyed in the Covid Response

Much like a Bill of Rights, a principal function of any Code of Ethics is to set limits, to check the inevitable lust for power, the libido dominandi, that human beings tend to demonstrate when they obtain authority and status over others, regardless of the context.

Though it may be difficult to believe in the aftermath of COVID, the medical profession does possess a Code of Ethics. The four fundamental concepts of Medical Ethics – its 4 Pillars – are Autonomy, Beneficence, Non-maleficence, and Justice.

Autonomy, Beneficence, Non-maleficence, and Justice

These ethical concepts are thoroughly established in the profession of medicine. I learned them as a medical student, much as a young Catholic learns the Apostle’s Creed. As a medical professor, I taught them to my students, and I made sure my students knew them. I believed then (and still do) that physicians must know the ethical tenets of their profession, because if they do not know them, they cannot follow them.

These ethical concepts are indeed well-established, but they are more than that. They are also valid, legitimate, and sound. They are based on historical lessons, learned the hard way from past abuses foisted upon unsuspecting and defenseless patients by governments, health care systems, corporations, and doctors. Those painful, shameful lessons arose not only from the actions of rogue states like Nazi Germany, but also from our own United States: witness Project MK-Ultra and the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment.

The 4 Pillars of Medical Ethics protect patients from abuse. They also allow physicians the moral framework to follow their consciences and exercise their individual judgment – provided, of course, that physicians possess the character to do so. However, like human decency itself, the 4 Pillars were completely disregarded by those in authority during COVID.

The demolition of these core principles was deliberate. It originated at the highest levels of COVID policymaking, which itself had been effectively converted from a public health initiative to a national security/military operation in the United States in March 2020, producing the concomitant shift in ethical standards one would expect from such a change. As we examine the machinations leading to the demise of each of the 4 Pillars of Medical Ethics during COVID, we will define each of these four fundamental tenets, and then discuss how each was abused.

Autonomy

Of the 4 Pillars of Medical Ethics, autonomy has historically held pride of place, in large part because respect for the individual patient’s autonomy is a necessary component of the other three. Autonomy was the most systemically abused and disregarded of the 4 Pillars during the COVID era.

Autonomy may be defined as the patient’s right to self-determination with regard to any and all medical treatment. This ethical principle was clearly stated by Justice Benjamin Cardozo as far back as 1914: “Every human being of adult years and sound mind has a right to determine what shall be done with his own body.”

Patient autonomy is “My body, my choice” in its purest form. To be applicable and enforceable in medical practice, it contains several key derivative principles which are quite commonsensical in nature. These include informed consent, confidentiality, truth-telling, and protection against coercion.

Genuine informed consent is a process, considerably more involved than merely signing a permission form. Informed consent requires a competent patient, who receives full disclosure about a proposed treatment, understands it, and voluntarily consents to it.

Based on that definition, it becomes immediately obvious to anyone who lived in the United States through the COVID era, that the informed consent process was systematically violated by the COVID response in general, and by the COVID vaccine programs in particular. In fact, every one of the components of genuine informed consent were thrown out when it came to the COVID vaccines:

* Full disclosure about the COVID vaccines – which were extremely new, experimental therapies, using novel technologies, with alarming safety signals from the very start – was systematically denied to the public. Full disclosure was actively suppressed by bogus anti-“misinformation” campaigns, and replaced with simplistic, false mantras (e.g. “safe and effective”) that were in fact just textbook propaganda slogans.

* Blatant coercion (e.g. “Take the shot or you’re fired/can’t attend college/can’t travel”) was ubiquitous and replaced voluntary consent.

* Subtler forms of coercion (ranging from cash payments to free beer) were given in exchange for COVID-19 vaccination. Multiple US states held lotteries for COVID-19 vaccine recipients, with up to $5 million in prize money promised in some states.

* Many physicians were presented with financial incentives to vaccinate, sometimes reaching hundreds of dollars per patient. These were combined with career-threatening penalties for questioning the official policies. This corruption severely undermined the informed consent process in doctor-patient interactions.

* Incompetent patients (e.g. countless institutionalized patients) were injected en masse, often while forcibly isolated from their designated decision-making family members.

It must be emphasized that under the tendentious, punitive, and coercive conditions of the COVID vaccine campaigns, especially during the “pandemic of the unvaccinated” period, it was virtually impossible for patients to obtain genuine informed consent. This was true for all the above reasons, but most importantly because full disclosure was nearly impossible to obtain.

A small minority of individuals did manage, mostly through their own research, to obtain sufficient information about the COVID-19 vaccines to make a truly informed decision. Ironically, these were principally dissenting healthcare personnel and their families, who, by virtue of discovering the truth, knew “too much.” This group overwhelmingly refused the mRNA vaccines.

Confidentiality, another key derivative principle of autonomy, was thoroughly ignored during the COVID era. The widespread yet chaotic use of COVID vaccine status as a de facto social credit system, determining one’s right of entry into public spaces, restaurants and bars, sporting and entertainment events, and other locations, was unprecedented in our civilization.

Gone were the days when HIPAA laws were taken seriously, where one’s health history was one’s own business, and where the cavalier use of such information broke Federal law. Suddenly, by extralegal public decree, the individual’s health history was public knowledge, to the absurd extent that any security guard or saloon bouncer had the right to question individuals about their personal health status, all on the vague, spurious, and ultimately false grounds that such invasions of privacy promoted “public health.”

Truth-telling was completely dispensed with during the COVID era. Official lies were handed down by decree from high-ranking officials such as Anthony Fauci, public health organizations like the CDC, and industry sources, then parroted by regional authorities and local clinical physicians. The lies were legion, and none of them have aged well. Examples include:

* The SARS-CoV-2 virus originated in a wet market, not in a lab
* “Two weeks to flatten the curve”
* Six feet of “social distancing” effectively prevents transmission of the virus
* “A pandemic of the unvaccinated”
* “Safe and effective”
* Masks effectively prevent transmission of the virus
* Children are at serious risk from COVID
* School closures are necessary to prevent spread of the virus
* mRNA vaccines prevent contraction of the virus
* mRNA vaccines prevent transmission of the virus
* mRNA vaccine-induced immunity is superior to natural immunity
* Myocarditis is more common from COVID-19 disease than from mRNA vaccination

It must be emphasized that health authorities pushed deliberate lies, known to be lies at the time by those telling them. Throughout the COVID era, a small but very insistent group of dissenters have constantly presented the authorities with data-driven counterarguments against these lies. The dissenters were consistently met with ruthless treatment of the “quick and devastating takedown” variety now infamously promoted by Fauci and former NIH Director Francis Collins.

Over time, many of the official lies about COVID have been so thoroughly discredited that they are now indefensible. In response, the COVID power brokers, backpedaling furiously, now try to recast their deliberate lies as fog-of-war style mistakes. To gaslight the public, they claim they had no way of knowing they were spouting falsehoods, and that the facts have only now come to light. These, of course, are the same people who ruthlessly suppressed the voices of scientific dissent that presented sound interpretations of the situation in real time.

For example, on March 29, 2021, during the initial campaign for universal COVID vaccination, CDC Director Rochelle Walensky proclaimed on MSNBC that “vaccinated people do not carry the virus” or “get sick,” based on both clinical trials and “real-world data.” However, testifying before Congress on April 19, 2023, Walensky conceded that those claims are now known to be false, but that this was due to “an evolution of the science.” Walensky had the effrontery to claim this before Congress 2 years after the fact, when in actuality, the CDC itself had quietly issued a correction of Walensky’s false MSNBC claims back in 2021, a mere 3 days after she had made them.

On May 5, 2023, three weeks after her mendacious testimony to Congress, Walensky announced her resignation.

Truth-telling by physicians is a key component of the informed consent process, and informed consent, in turn, is a key component of patient autonomy. A matrix of deliberate lies, created by authorities at the very top of the COVID medical hierarchy, was projected down the chains of command, and ultimately repeated by individual physicians in their face-to-face interactions with their patients. This process rendered patient autonomy effectively null and void during the COVID era.

Patient autonomy in general, and informed consent in particular, are both impossible where coercion is present. Protection against coercion is a principal feature of the informed consent process, and it is a primary consideration in medical research ethics. This is why so-called vulnerable populations such as children, prisoners, and the institutionalized are often afforded extra protections when proposed medical research studies are subjected to institutional review boards.

Coercion not only ran rampant during the COVID era, it was deliberately perpetrated on an industrial scale by governments, the pharmaceutical industry, and the medical establishment. Thousands of American healthcare workers, many of whom had served on the front lines of care during the early days of the pandemic in 2020 (and had already contracted COVID-19 and developed natural immunity) were fired from their jobs in 2021 and 2022 after refusing mRNA vaccines they knew they didn’t need, would not consent to, and yet for which they were denied exemptions. “Take this shot or you’re fired” is coercion of the highest order.

Hundreds of thousands of American college students were required to get the COVID shots and boosters to attend school during the COVID era. These adolescents, like young children, have statistically near-zero chance of death from COVID-19. However, they (especially males) are at statistically highest risk of COVID-19 mRNA vaccine-related myocarditis.

According to the advocacy group nocollegemendates.com, as of May 2, 2023, approximately 325 private and public colleges and universities in the United States still have active vaccine mandates for students matriculating in the fall of 2023. This is true despite the fact that it is now universally accepted that the mRNA vaccines do not stop contraction or transmission of the virus. They have zero public health utility. “Take this shot or you cannot go to school” is coercion of the highest order.

Countless other examples of coercion abound. The travails of the great tennis champion Novak Djokovic, who has been denied entry into both Australia and the United States for multiple Grand Slam tournaments because he refuses the COVID vaccines, illustrate in broad relief the “man without a country” limbo in which the unvaccinated found (and to some extent still find) themselves, due to the rampant coercion of the COVID era.

Beneficence

In medical ethics, beneficence means that physicians are obligated to act for the benefit of their patients. This concept distinguishes itself from non-maleficence (see below) in that it is a positive requirement. Put simply, all treatments done to an individual patient should do good to that individual patient. If a procedure cannot help you, then it shouldn’t be done to you. In ethical medical practice, there is no “taking one for the team.”

By mid-2020 at the latest, it was clear from existing data that SARS-CoV-2 posed truly minimal risk to children of serious injury and death – in fact, the pediatric Infection Fatality Rate of COVID-19 was known in 2020 to be less than half the risk of being struck by lightning. This feature of the disease, known even in its initial and most virulent stages, was a tremendous stroke of pathophysiological good luck, and should have been used to the great advantage of society in general and children in particular.

The opposite occurred. The fact that SARS-CoV-2 causes extremely mild illness in children was systematically hidden or scandalously downplayed by authorities, and subsequent policy went unchallenged by nearly all physicians, to the tremendous detriment of children worldwide.

The frenzied push for and unrestrained use of mRNA vaccines in children and pregnant women – which continues at the time of this writing in the United States – outrageously violates the principle of beneficence. And beyond the Anthony Faucis, Albert Bourlas, and Rochelle Walenskys, thousands of ethically compromised pediatricians bear responsibility for this atrocity.

The mRNA COVID vaccines were – and remain – new, experimental vaccines with zero long-term safety data for either the specific antigen they present (the spike protein) or their novel functional platform (mRNA vaccine technology). Very early on, they were known to be ineffective in stopping contraction or transmission of the virus, rendering them useless as a public health measure. Despite this, the public was barraged with bogus “herd immunity” arguments. Furthermore, these injections displayed alarming safety signals, even during their tiny, methodologically challenged initial clinical trials.

The principle of beneficence was entirely and deliberately ignored when these products were administered willy-nilly to children as young as 6 months, a population to whom they could provide zero benefit – and as it turned out, that they would harm. This represented a classic case of “taking one for the team,” an abusive notion that was repeatedly invoked against children during the COVID era, and one that has no place in the ethical practice of medicine.

Children were the population group that was most obviously and egregiously harmed by the abandonment of the principle of beneficence during COVID. However, similar harms occurred due to the senseless push for COVID mRNA vaccination of other groups, such as pregnant women and persons with natural immunity.

Non-Maleficence

much more at the OP ...
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby stickdog99 » Sat May 13, 2023 9:01 pm

The World Health Organization's Own Advice From 2011 Has Somehow Mysteriously Disappeared From Its Website

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Web Archive Link
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Re: Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

Postby Grizzly » Sat May 13, 2023 10:07 pm

A look at COVID school closures as a political issue
https://brownstone.org/articles/school-closures-in-2020-21-what-really-happened/

Lots of nice detail if you RTFA. But in brief, areas that voted for Trump opened schools MUCH earlier than Biden areas. For example, charts comparing California and Texas are completely different.
“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

― Joseph mengele
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