Guantanamo suicides "act of war"

by **chiggerbit** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:36 pm

1. Authoritarian pyramid structure with authority at the top "I am the decider."

by **chiggerbit** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:41 pm

2. Charismatic or messianic leader(s) (Messianic meaning they either say they are God OR that they alone can interpret the scriptures the way God intended.....the leaders are self-appointed.) "God Told Me to Invade Iraql."

by **chiggerbit** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:45 pm

3. Deception in recruitment and/or fund raising Vice President Cheney Veterans of Foreign Wars 103 rd National Convention August 26, 2002 "But we now know that Saddam has resumed his efforts to acquire nuclear weapons. Among other sources, we've gotten this from the firsthand testimony of defectors --including Saddam's own son-in-law, who was subsequently murdered at Saddam's direction. Many of us are convinced that Saddam will acquire nuclear weapons fairly soon. "Armed with an arsenal of these weapons of terror, and seated atop ten percent of the world's oil reserves, Saddam Hussein could then be expected to seek domination of the entire Middle East, take control of a great portion of the world's energy supplies, directly threaten America's friends throughout the region, and subject the United States or any other nation to nuclear blackmail. "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."

by **dugoboy** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:46 pm

i'm sorry, my fucking brain implodes whenever i try to make sense of this logic (?) that these guys killing themselves - by themselves - is somehow an act of war to me or any average joe american. it, it makes absolutely no god damn sense. this is 'asymmetrical' warfare?? WOOOW! we're all fucked now aren't we? we can't stop the scary 'boogeymen' from offing themselves, oh no! are we now counting their suicides as part of our war dead or something now? oh yeah, it's part of the new GWOT strategy guide book the Bushites drafted this weekend at camp david. page 3 "terraists hanging themselves in their cell is an act of war comparable to jets crashing ino buildings" ooook. gotcha! keep it up guys. crank them thinkin' wheels some more. ___________________________________________ "BUSHCO aren't incompetent...they are COMPLICIT." -Me "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act" -George Orwell

by **chiggerbit** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:50 pm

4. Isolation from society -- not necessarily physical isolation like on some compound in Waco, but this can be psychological isolation -- the rest of the world is not saved, not Christian, not transformed (whatever) -- the only valid source of feedback and information is the group Well, i will just refer you to John Bolton and the rest of the anti-UN group, including the teeny "coalition of the willing" that haven't been so willing as this adminsitration. Our only ally seems to be the goofy Tony Blair. What is WITH that guy and his goofy wife, anyway? Something whacko there. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chiggerbit@rigorousintuition>chiggerbit</A> at: 6/12/06 8:00 pm

by **chiggerbit** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:57 pm

5. Use of mind control techniques (we use Dr. Robert Jay Lifton's criteria from chapter 22 of his book "Thought Reform & the Psychology of Totalism" to compare whether the eight psychological and social methods he lists are present in the group at question) Mileu Control: Control of the environment and communication within the environment Sorry, just thinking about the so submissive MSM, wiggling on their pitiful backs on this one, snickering while I picture them. No one can accuse them of being alpha wolves, can they? I used to have a dog like that, poor thing. Very loyal, though.

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:03 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I'm looking for answers. And help. Although, not wishing to appear fatalistic, I fear we may already be too far down the road to oblivion to do very much.<hr></blockquote> This may be hard to believe, but, in the words of the Beatles, "It's getting better all the time..." Yes, we have lots of institutionalized injustice to repair and some serious physical eco-damage to make the best of. But the human animal has biological 'virtues' that can't be significantly altered by the fascists and there are more of us than of them by far. Remember that evolution has hard-wired our brains for compassion as recently proven by medical science. When we see another face in stress the same stress zones in our own brains are activated. We really are nurturing social animals as Jesus was trying to explain but without 'proof' unless you count the reported miracles. This strong aversion to other people's suffering was seen as a real problem to the US government when it turned up during WWII. It was accidentally discovered that only about 17% of US soldiers were shooting at the enemy because it was so counter to their human instincts. A battle report of interviews with soldiers to see if one of them earned a medal revealed this and subsequent investigation confirmed a low compliance rate with murdering strangers on command. So training was changed to get more 'kill compliance.' It worked but it took using tricks and it still doesn't 'keep' for long. This scam produced 20th century hell but the code has been broken and we are rapidly catching up with the bastards who tricked us into this state of things. There elements of humanity that they don't understand and every mistake reveals more of the Oz behind the curtain to more of us. Too many people are wising up and withdrawing their support for the current fascist system and it will adapt to us, not the other way around. Human nature is with us and against them. When men can raise children lovingly as women do instead of terrorizing them for life we will make great leaps forward. It is already happening. And this is what Jesus meant in his message of compassion returning when the times called for it, not some endtime Armageddon. I'm not even a Christian. I'm a secular humanist raised with Christian values but I've found the biological evidence of what that revered ancient humanist was saying. (Christ was not a 'Christian,' he was a 'Humanitarian' who said take care of humans.) "These days to be a revolutionary is not to be violent but instead to be a teacher, a therapist, and a healer." Teach your children well. <a href="http://psychohistory.com/">psychohistory.com/</a> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hughmanateewins>Hugh Manatee Wins</A> at: 6/12/06 8:19 pm

by **chiggerbit** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:04 pm

Demand for Purity: The world becomes sharply divided into the pure and the impure, the absolutely good (the group/ideology) and the absolutely evil (everything outside the group) one must continually change or conform to the group "norm"; tendencies towards guilt and shame are used as emotional levers for the group's controlling and manipulative influences What's that the Bush said, "You're with us or against us"? Or, what he really meant, "You're with ME or against ME", as translated by...me.

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:28 pm

'Asymmetrical Warfare' is a military term meaning a large state army vs a small guerilla resistance. Here's a typical academic paper on the topic that notes the sustaining power of religion in adversity. This is why 'The DaVinci Code'and the whole religious war element is used on 'both sides.' <a href="http://www.stormingmedia.us/96/9641/A964104.html">www.stormingmedia.us/96/9...64104.html</a> Asymmetric Warfare and the Will to Win Authors: Cary A. Herrera; Matthew D. Quinn; NAVAL POSTGRADUATE SCHOOL MONTEREY CA Asymmetric war, in which one side has an overwhelming advantage over its opponent, will likely be the war of the future for the United States in the post-Cold War uni- polar world. To win an asymmetric war, the individual and then the masses must be motivated to fight and, ultimately, the will to win must be cultivated and sustained for victory. Religion is a highly effective motivator for both the individual and the masses. This motivation, when properly directed, can provide the will to win in the face of overwhelming odds. This thesis focuses on religion as the primary motivator in an asymmetric war. Religion is a strong motivator for the individual because of four factors: appropriateness, identity, rationality, and religion's strength as an internally consistent logic. With a highly motivated individual, an organization gains specific advantages by focusing on the religious aspects of the conflict. These advantages are: commitment, legitimacy, membership, and longevity. These are the measurable elements that create a strong will to win. Of course the psy-ops tactic is to trigger the fear of '9/11' suicide hijackers by highlighting the suicide as disrespecting life and thus an immoral tactic. This propaganda is to reinforce the few who still buy into the whole kamikaze fear of 9/11, the anchor point trauma trigger of our lifetimes.

by **chiggerbit** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 10:52 pm

Mystical Manipulation: Seeks to promote specific patterns of behavior and emotion in such a way that it appears to have arisen spontaneously from within the environment, while it actually has been orchestrated totalist leaders claim to be agents chosen by God, history, or some supernatural force, to carry out the mystical imperative the "principles" (God-centered or otherwise) can be put forcibly and claimed exclusively, so that the cult and its beliefs become the only true path to salvation (or enlightenment) As in the "Patriotic Act" and Bush's refusal to recognize any legislative limits on his powers? totalist leaders claim to be agents chosen by God, history, or some supernatural force, to carry out the mystical imperative the "principles" (God-centered or otherwise) As in 9/11 "changed everything"? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=chiggerbit@rigorousintuition>chiggerbit</A> at: 6/12/06 8:55 pm

by JD » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:13 am

Like really; the most imaginative writer of fiction just couldn't come up with the shit we now see every day. Reading it again, for the simple inanity of it all: Guantanamo suicides 'acts of war' Sunday, 11 June 2006 The suicides of three detainees at the US base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, amount to acts of war, the US military says. The camp commander said the two Saudis and a Yemeni were "committed" and had killed themselves in "an act of asymmetric warfare waged against us".

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:15 am

Thanks for that, chiggerbit. Very interesting. Re: Suicide as an attack on the US- DARVO Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender. Acronym first used by Jennifer Freyd (1997) to describe the responses that wrong doers, particularly sexual offenders, may display when confronted. "Reverse Victim and Offender" describes attempts to reverse roles so that the accused presents as victim and the accuser is cast as perpetrator.

by **Qutb** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:21 am

I think the general may actually believe what he's saying. This line of thinking is typical of the paranoid, nationalistic, militaristic American right-wing. "They killed themselves to make America look bad! And the bleeding heart tree-hugging anti-American commie libruls are gonna fall for it"

by **OpLan** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:13 am

grrr..bloody internet pixies ate my response.. 2nd draft.. These people may as well have been imprisoned in another dimension.They could have died 3 years ago and we would not know otherwise. I think that any news story dealing with 911/iraq/iran/terrorism is as carefully planned as their thuggish little minds can manage.So why were we told now?It either distracts us from some other news item they dont want us to dwell on,or it is meant to inflame hatred for america in her enemies hearts.They need a never ending army of terrorists for their never ending war.They have 2 years before the next election.The false terrorism they employ will be harder to get away with if the neocons are not in control.They will need the real terrorists to continue the war until they can regain the whitehouse.(If they dont steal it again) Then again..the Murragh building was on Clintons watch. Over here in the UK,Channel 4 news interviewed a former guantanimo inmate. (newsreader): What do you think might explain how not just one, but three suicides could have happened at once? Moazzam Begg: Well I don't know if you remember but a few years ago, as I far as I understand it, it was reported that several detainees perhaps 20 or even 30 detainees attempted a sort of mass suicide. And I think part of it is just a sheer desperation. I think the United States response has been that this has been some sort of asymmetrical act of war which is utter nonsense. The reality is that people when they are in prison, even when they've been convicted of crimes, resort to suicide. So can you imagine if someone hasn't even had the opportunity to defend themselves in court or who had any access to the legal norms that we would understand or any meaningful communication - that they're completely and utterly desperate and there's no access or recourse to law or justice. I remember an incident when I had an anxiety attack myself in solitary confinement. A psychologist came along and asked me had I ever contemplated suicide? And then she put the method to me. She said had I ever thought of getting a pair of trousers and threading it with a sheet and than tying that sheet to the top of the cage and then jumping off from one of the edges, so that I could commit suicide? And I said, 'no, not until she'd put the idea to me'. So I wonder where exactly, because it's said these people have committed suicide by hanging, where exactly they got this notion from? The full transcript is <a href="http://www.channel4.com/news/special-reports/special-reports-storypage.jsp?id=2547" target="top">here</a> you can watch the video of the interview from a link at the bottom of that page.

by **AlicetheCurious** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:10 pm

Maybe the pressure's mounting to "sh#t or get off the pot", ie either charge these poor people with something, or release them. And they're being suicided off to avert the massive, highly embarrassing lawsuits that will surely follow their release. What is that saying? "Dead men don't tell tales." Even if there are no lawsuits (I'm sure there would be -- the NWO isn't quite in place yet), you can bet the horror stories about their treatment at the hands of the freedom-loving Americans will circle the globe. At least one of the kidnapped, who has been held without charge or being allowed to communicate with the outside world, is a cameraman who was working for Al-Jazeera in Afghanistan during the invasion. Anyway, it seems that the statements created quite a stir in international circles. In the AP article, note that the Red Cross makes it a point that it has no intention of carrying out an investigation. Why the hell not? They don't say... BTW, is it me, or does there seem to be more outrage, revulsion, indignation, at the 'odious' statements of the US government, than by their bloody, mass-murdering actions? What is that? "Kill, kidnap, torture, maim, commit war crimes all you want, but for God's sake, man, must you make such tasteless remarks?" <blockquote>Quote:<hr>US retreat on Guantanamo deaths Tuesday 13 June 2006, 4:35 Makka Time, 1:35 GMT The US was criticised for deriding the Guantanamo suicides US claims that the suicides of three Guantanamo Bay prisoners were a PR stunt or an act of warfare have drawn international criticism and prompted Washington to distance itself from the statements. Sean McCormack, the US state department spokesman, told reporters on Monday: "We would not say that it was a PR stunt. "We have serious concerns any time anybody takes their own life." Colleen Graffy, the deputy assistant secretary of state for public diplomacy, had said earlier that the deaths "certainly [are] a good PR move to draw attention". And Navy Rear Admiral Harry Harris had said he believed that the suicides were an "act of asymmetric warfare against us" rather than an act of desperation. The pair's comments prompted newspapers and rights groups to criticise the US for its continued detention without trial of hundreds of people it regards as terror suspects at the prison camp. "Cold and odious" Le Monde newspaper in France condemned Graffy's comments, saying that they "illustrate the gulf which separates American authorities from the rest of the world on this sinister question". The Guardian newspaper in Britain called Harris's remarks "cold and odious". "It is entirely in keeping with the clinical illegality of America's treatment of terror suspects since 2001," the newspaper said. The three men - two Saudis and one Yemeni - hanged themselves after being held at the prison camp for about four years without charge. About 460 men accused of links to Afghanistan's Taliban or the al-Qaeda network are still being held. Most have been behind bars for more than four years without charge. "Entirely inappropriate" Amnesty International said Graffy's comment "shows a chilling disregard for human life" and said it was "deeply concerned" by Harris's remark. Rob Freer, an Amnesty official, said: "The commander's statement is entirely inappropriate and is part of a pattern of official commentary on the presumed guilt of detainees who have never had an opportunity to challenge their detentions in a court of law." The international Red Cross said it hoped to bring forward a scheduled visit to the camp because of the suicides of the inmates, but it said it was not an investigation. The Paris-based International Federation for Human Rights said it was shocked by the American officials' statements, which it branded "shameful and revolting". The Daily Mail newspaper, a right-wing British tabloid, said the officials had spoken "with utter insensitivity to world opinion" in an editorial headlined "From the high moral ground to the gutter." El Mundo newspaper in Spain called the comments "gruesome". AP <a href="http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/B2C9F2C7-9E05-445F-B64F-A9733FCF76A9.htm">english.aljazeera.net/NR/...CF76A9.htm</a> <hr></blockquote>

Guantanamo suicides "act of war"

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Re: Yep - Welcome, Existentialist.

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NO ONE COULD MAKE THIS SHIT UP!

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why now?

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