More on the Crowley - RA connection (triggers)

biaothanatoi · Post by **biaothanatoi** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 9:55 pm

Look, from my point of view, I don't care whether people believe me or not. That's not my issue here, and it's not what I originally responded to. What pissed me off – more then it should have, since it was just a post – was being called 'hysterical'. Bear in mind that I am disclosing extremely sensitive material - information that came to me during a period in which my friend was really triggered, unable to keep food down, unable to sleep - I can't really tell you what it's like to see her like that, especially when I know that it means her safety is compromised on top of it all. I appreciate Tim’s point about not leaping to conclusions, but my logic is not (and has never been) the-perps-like-blood/Crowley-wrote-about-blood/the-perps-are-Crowleyites. Posters who keep accusing me of this line of thought simply aren’t reading my posts, and there is only so many times I can repeat myself. There are some things I can disclose, and some I can’t. If you want to test the direct correlates between the perps and Crowley, I could tell you about their specific beliefs to do with the ‘alchemical mix’ of bodily fluids produced by anal rape. But if you find the menstrual stuff gratuitous, the specific details are going to be a bit much – for everyone. Yup, it’s naïve to think that the material I disclose will be treated with respected (emphasis: not necessarily believed – respected). But I do, because I know how much it cost her, and how important it is that there is a record of it somewhere that it can be accessed by other people in our situation.

human · Post by **human** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:00 pm

WHY do you want to be a blackops perpetrator? It's not funny. what i meant, is i wanted to be accused of such.... i felt sad being left out... The NEXT characteristic of a blackoperator is to assault someone's perception of reality: to assert that they are nuts or "off their meds" etc. Thanks. You COULD be a black operator no problem. You seem to have the knack. real? whats real? that i COULD be a black operator shows exactly how ridiculous this point is... ive never sworn any oaths, unlike yourself, who has admitted membership in the Temple Bar Association and unlike biao who has admitted being a occult practitioner.... the reality is though: Even blackoperators are people too (despite appearances at times) and that was my point. which is why flinging accusations is a ridiculous waste of time... and so, if the Vampires have been drinking menstual blood for millenia..... shouldnt we ask questions regarding biao's conclusions? i dunno... if anything, IMO, your theory of how a "black operator" would work is pretty low-tech. AND, the degradation of this conversation into throwing black ops accusations is the biggest insult towards RA ive seen in the thread thus far. definitely read that book. but dont believe it. one human?

human · Post by **human** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:04 pm

There are some things I can disclose, and some I can’t. this i dont understand. you and her name, sure, i understand. the perps names.... well i disagree, but i understand... the story??? i dont get why ou cant tell the whole thing, ou have already said "too much".....

biaothanatoi · Post by **biaothanatoi** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:11 pm

I can tell you "the whole thing", that's not a problem. You can find the first time I wrote publicly about our experiences <a href="http://www.melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2004/08/77348.php" target="top">here</a>. This was last year, when I'd only known the phrase "ritual abuse" for a couple of months. There is a follow up article <a href="http://www.melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2005/02/88163.php" target="top">here</a>.

slimmouse · Post by **slimmouse** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:42 pm

Well, despite emotions occassionally and understandably being strained on numerous occassions here, I have found this a truly amazing thread. A few observations of my own. Some of which have kinda come to me through reading the entire length of this thread. Firstly, it is hardly surprising that this is one place where we should all expect scepticism to abound. Theres nothing particularly unhealthy about that. As regular readers of Jeffs blog, it should be obvious to all of us that disinformation most definitely abounds,- just look at the budget available for this !, and also that the best kind of disinformation ( and that which we might expect from the bastards ) is that which seamlessly blends in with the credible/factual. There are occasions where the bastards cant make it stack up, whichever way they try and dress it - 9/11 for instance - But look at the proffessional job being done in the aftermath. I would personally be very very surprised if this kind of stuff hasnt found its way onto this forum. My problem is, I wouldnt have the first idea on which side of this particular discussion it resides. On the one hand this is very frustrating, because we all seek the truth, and to know how why what when and where, and it becomes almost impossible ( particularly online and in a forum such as this) to know who to believe and who not to. I guess we must just take the positives from this - think about it all, and resolve to make our own mind up. But, That this also occasionally boils over into anger that one can feel ( although in cyberspace no one can ever hear you scream <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> ) should also be a given. I have posted on other boards on 9/11, and have screamed SHILL and much worse so many times its not even funny, - often out of sheer frustration - usually because they dont follow what I percieve as the logical argument as I see it Are these people shills ? Who knows. They could just be good guys in denial, and they might ( although its a very minute might ) be right<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/grin.gif ALT=" >D"> Rather like Starman, This whole RA business is a completely new area for me, and yet it does fit rather snugly into everything I understand to be some of the very sinister realities of this world. Ive been thinking a lot throughout this thread about the circumstances surrounding many of the accounts Ive read from some of the posters on these boards, and with regards to those RA victims, I might relate my own personal experiences. I have never been ritually abused physically - nothing even close in fact. My childhood experiences however ( ive come to realise ) offer me a very limited insight into all of this. My mother died at a very early age, and my stepmother wasnt the kindest to put it mildy. The abuse I was subjected to was nothing quite so sinister, but it was more of a mental torture, accompanied by the odd good hiding which I didnt actually deserve. The strange thing however ( and this is how I can understand how serious RA works ) is that you almost develop some kind of strange loyalty to the abuser ( in this case my step mother ). This is of course based partly on fear - I knew my stepmom was being a bitch, but that frightened me because to tell anyone would make it even worse for me in my eyes, or cause such unbearable disruption within the family. I would just grin and bear it, and indeed it became something of a personality trait. I can always remember getting beaten up by one of my buddies at school one afternoon - Hating him all the way home- and then having eaten my dinner - setting off half way accross town on foot to go to his house to hang out ! If anyone asked me now, why I stood for any of this as a child, I still wouldnt be able to tell them !! That fear did play a part was unquestionable, but it certainly wasnt the whole story. The point being,If fear influenced my relatively limited troubles, then I can truly appreciate how it must be almost impossible to get too specific for RA survivors. I find this hard to write, and my troubles are long done with. As for my stepmother ? Shes still alive. I went to a 40th wedding anniversery of her and my biological dad the other week. Nothing was said. Its kinda like the thing that we dont talk about. My brother, sister and dad ? They know, but they dont know - if you know what I mean. But the point is, I was still there at that celebration ! In summary meanwhile, Im sat right in the middle on this one <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\"> May the good force be with you all.

jmregister · Post by **jmregister** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:00 pm

I've realized your logic has not been so simple, Biao, as you posted at the start that you were going on more information than you provided. But without providing that information, that is the logic you are letting your conclusion rest on, as far as all of us can be concerned. My initial point was to impress the importance of this additional information, as it seemed, with you not providing it straight away, you felt the larger structure of your argument to be practically immaterial. But whatever the case, I am interested in whatever you would be willing to share as far as the direct correlates between the perps and Crowley go. At least as much as you believe would justify you conclusion. And thanks for posting those other links.

Seventhsonjr · Post by **Seventhsonjr** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 11:25 pm

real? whats real? Heh? The point is that people attack your mental health and your psychological state. They insult you, attacking your credibility, by asserting that you are off your rocker, batshit crazy, off your meds, need to check in with your psychiatrist, or, --- in this case....what you said that i COULD be a black operator shows exactly how ridiculous this point is... ive never sworn any oaths, unlike yourself, who has admitted membership in the Temple Bar Association and unlike biao who has admitted being a occult practitioner.... Interesting. I have NEVER sworn allegiance to any "Temple Bar Association" While technically I am a "member" of the bar, this is only because I am a licensed attorney and, yes, I did have to take an oath as a commissioner of the court to uphold the law and follow the ethical guidelines of my profession. But I never became a member of any bar "association". I have no idea if Baio took any oaths as an "occult practitioner". This is just obfuscation and, in my case, a direct falsehood: another sign of bl;ackoperators, they are used to prevaricating and dissembling so they often lapse into total lies to try to make their points. WTF is a "Temple Bar Association" anyway? That is a perfect example of dissembling. the reality is though: Once again you say YOU have the right to tell us what reality is. By inference you are saying we do NOT know what it is. which is why flinging accusations is a ridiculous waste of time... Not at all. I am not necessarily flinging accusations, I am trying to draw out more information and determine whether or not any of Baio's attackers here are working for the putrid slimey necrophiles and killers. So far I have not really directly said ANYONE was such: BUT I have pointed out those characteristics of the posts and the posters which are typical blackops techniques which have been pretty well defined by me. Remember too that 9-11 was alleged to be low tech. One guy with a laptop (and the right access codes) could have done it too provided he had collaborators in the intel community. and so, if the Vampires have been drinking menstual blood for millenia..... shouldnt we ask questions regarding biao's conclusions? i dunno... Another dissembling. Vampires are a myth. Cannabilistic ritual killers are not. if anything, IMO, your theory of how a "black operator" would work is pretty low-tech. AND, the degradation of this conversation into throwing black ops accusations is the biggest insult towards RA ive seen in the thread thus far. It is no insult towards RA. This response is further dissembling. The degradation of the discussion began with a claim that the purported victim of RA abusers was being hysterical regarding a rather minor "labelling" issue (are these RA abusers classifiable as Thelemic Fundamentalists? Is it "HYSTERIA" (a misogynistic term to say the least and probably a common RA term) to call them Thelemic Fundamentalists who are abusing biao and his friend. I only jumped in to expose what I perceived as a concerted attack on RA victims and RI's mission. as for "low tech" posting on the internet and following the posts of progressives and activists and attacking them subtley and not so subtley IS pretty low tech and the morons who are hired to do it are usually not very bright or good at it. I expect to see some supervisors and hgeavy hitters (probably posting as bad spellers with cute appellations and backstories) any moment now since the first team here appears to me to be burning out and making asinine mistakes.

biaothanatoi · Post by **biaothanatoi** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:24 am

The first real inkling I had that pointed directly at Thelema was my friend’s disclosure in Feb of this year that the paedophile group has nine rankings of ‘degrees', with one man occupying the tenth ranking, known as ‘Rex' or ‘King'. It was only once I ran that info through Google and came up with this quote from Crowley that I first started thinking seriously about Thelema and RA: A body was formed under the name O.T.O. (Ordo Templi Orientis) ... in nine degrees, with a tenth of an honorary character to distinguish the ``Supreme and Holy King'' of the Order in each country where it was established. And I started putting the pieces together. Vocabulary is important – I knew that the group was divided into ‘masters’ (perpetrators) and ‘slaves’ (victims). The perpetrators have also made explicit references to me about being ‘kings’ and ‘gods’. The masters/slaves dichotomy, and the references to kings and apotheosis, is crucial to Thelema, and Crowley was explicit that: “The kings of the earth shall be kings forever: the slaves shall serve.” and “I am unique and conqueror. I am not of the slaves that perish. Be they damned and dead!” I have seen my friend kicks into flashback overdrive at the mention of the phrase ‘scarlet woman’, repeating 'I'm not allowed to talk about that'. The sexual-ritual practice of the perpetrators also mirrors Crowleys’ pronouncements on sodomy and bodily fluids. They’ve been quite explicit to me about this in the past. Add this to their: - paedophilia (Take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where, and with whom ye will.) - interest in menstrual blood (the best blood is of the moon, monthly) - sacrificial practice (But the bloody sacrifice, though more dangerous, is more efficacious; and for nearly all purposes human sacrifice is the best) - cannibalism (It would be unwise to condemn as irrational the practice of those savages who tear the heart and liver from an adversary, and devour them while yet warm) - extreme misogyny (Let the woman be girt with a sword before me: let blood flow to my name.) And you have an argument for Thelemic fundamentalism (which would, by definition, differ considerably from the ‘mainstream’ practice of Thelema). And I would suggest that this material be viewed as a whole, rather then considered sequentially. The link to Thelema is more then just ‘scriptural deviancy’ – it also has to do with the principles and worldview that underpins Crowley’s material. As I’ve said before, I’m open to a more eclectic interpretation, but I’m not seeing it here. I’ve asked my friend time and again, but ‘Satan’ and alternative ritual abuse iconography just don’t play into her abuse. The specifics of her disclosures regarding internal structure, vocabulary, belief system and specific sexual/ritual practice are pure Crowley. For our own protection, we need an operating theory on who these guys are, so we can predict their next move. That’s not ‘hysteria’ and it’s not ‘jumping to conclusions’. It’s survival. By analyzing Thelema, I’ve been able to accurately predict danger times, prevent a number of attacks, and offer her a framework to understand her own bizarre memories – her experiences of ritual torture make sense when viewed from through a Thelemic lens. The Thelema theory has been tested out in the field, and it is working.

human · Post by **human** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:36 am

Heh? The point is that people attack your mental health and your psychological state. They insult you, attacking your credibility, by asserting that you are off your rocker, batshit crazy, off your meds, need to check in with your psychiatrist, or, --- in this case....what you said welp, i happily admit that im completely crazy. sane & insane are the same. While technically I am a "member" of the bar, this is only because I am a licensed attorney and, yes, I did have to take an oath as a commissioner of the court to uphold the law and follow the ethical guidelines of my profession........... WTF is a "Temple Bar Association" anyway? That is a perfect example of dissembling. welp, its interesting that you dont know what im talking about (considering you swore a oath and all). The "bar" comes from the "temple bar" which is a Knights Templar institution... im not gonna go on a whole history lesson here, but with those clues, do some research into it, and find out what "esquire" really means... Once again you say YOU have the right to tell us what reality is. By inference you are saying we do NOT know what it is. i was quoting YOU. lol.. Another dissembling. Vampires are a myth. Cannabilistic ritual killers are not. hmmm.. welp, you may be dissapointed to find out that the ritual drinking of menstual blood IS what a Vampire does... not all the hollywood BS.. and that has been going on for a long long time. I only jumped in to expose what I perceived as a concerted attack on RA victims and RI's mission. that evil bastard Tim Boucher!! did you see his "big fat nerd" controversy?? hes always up to nno good. sorry, i suppose ive interpreted "What you don't know can't hurt them" in a drastically different manner. as for "low tech" posting on the internet and following the posts of progressives and activists and attacking them subtley and not so subtley IS pretty low tech and the morons who are hired to do it are usually not very bright or good at it. I expect to see some supervisors and hgeavy hitters (probably posting as bad spellers with cute appellations and backstories) any moment now since the first team here appears to me to be burning out and making asinine mistakes. hmmm, nope. the best black op would to come on here telling stories like biao or freaking out like you. or shit, starting this thing to begin with would be a even better black op!! now "they" know who we are!!! maybe Jeff is a agent!!!!!!!!!!!!!! gimme abreak. i for one, still to this moment, give biao the benefit of the doubt, because im a compasionate concerned individual, with no ulterior motive besides my personal quest for truth & love. i think the initial questions asked of biao were not intended to insult or confuse the subject, but to come to a better understanding of whats going on. this is supposed to be a learning process (i think???) so it might be a good idea to drop this whole black op witch hunt in exchange for constructive dialogue... one human?

jmregister · Post by **jmregister** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:26 am

Thank you for posting that. Obviously in the larger context it does not seem like "hysteria" or "jumping to conclusions". Alas, all people can respond to are the things they perceive. I'll note that I also agree with you, that the link is more than "scriptural deviancy", as far as principles and worldview goes. It's way too easy to read Crowley as justifying the kind of abuse that goes on in the world. Although, when I was reading Crowley (it's been a bit now), it seemed like he really did mean for the properly realized Master/Slave relationship to be harmonious, and not just for the Master. It's hard to imagine RA victims qualifying a harmonious relationship. Note, I'm not saying that to make any big point; just idly speculating. I figure people read themselves into the text if it will allow them, and Crowley will certainly allow RA perpetrators to do that with no real problems.

jenz · Post by **jenz** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:55 am

I'm skipping some of the slagging off. I just wanted to say that I have been surprised from a discussion site which seems to involve people priding themselves on spotting nwo, mind control , destruction of the family et al, that mere mention of one of the milder practices associated with the torture of young children and young people in RA groups has sent so many scuttling back to 'see no evil' positions. RA survivors, wacky and disfunctional though they often are, are our most precious human resource. Often they have been shown no love or compassion even when very small and helpless, they offer their love and compassion to us all - in the form of the testimony which could alert us if only we had the wit to listen. I don't discount the fact that there have been fabricators, self promoters or plants, but am I such a precious flower that I can't ever face the risk being taken for a ride? Recently, in the wake of some anti jewish attacks by Nazis a young woman (with a psychiatric history it turned out) faked one against herself, in the Paris RATP transport. Shall I, for ever more, be wary of stories of racial atttacks by victims? The fact that people who have been raised in hate, reject it, and turn to us for help, is the sure sign that those men who are too stupid to recognise that "mind-control" is a contradiction in terms, will not in fact control the humn race. I am soon on my way to visit a victim whose story a well known tv investigative journalism is gearing up to feature. I suppose if it gets screened , then you'll believe. The point of blogging is surely to hear the stories that don't get through the sanitised news networks. There is absolutely no chance that the full story will be screened - not least because of the risks to her and her family, but also because it involves ever so nicey nicey middle class folks with good houses, great cover, influence, and the money - much derived from illegal sources but buried in their legit activities. I'd like to write it all out here, names and all, but I can't. (similar reasons) Some things you can only tell to people whose eyes you can see. The menstrual blood bit is just another torture session, the purpose is to degrade the victim. Yes, from my experience many ra groups mess with the satanic, but as I indicated in my first post, its not the angle I take, if only because it draws too much flack - for a well documented debunk on semantics of religion see La Fontaine's report which is still being used to shore up a pro-abuser police policy in the UK

Seventhsonjr · Post by **Seventhsonjr** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:19 am

Hi Baio - This is the first time I have spoken directly with you and I want to express gratitude for this post, as it explains WHY you used the term (one I am totally unfamiliar with) and what its context is. This explanation early on would have been very useful for those too lazy or to disruptive to do a google search. Someone here said they did not have two hours to search it. But when I FIRST read the assault on you here (the use of the word "hysterical" which is another spook-necrophile [my name for these creeps] buzz word often used to demean, degrade and discredit progressives and searchers of the truth) it took me exactly ONE quick google search (about thirty seconds) using the name Croweley and thelemite and I had many hits and one where Crowley proclaims himself and his followers Thelemites. If, as many have stated on other boards as well as here, that Crowley was actually a figurehead/spook for the corporao-fascist rapist/sodomist cannibals and brute killer ivy league and other global elites who worship the lust for blood and death and use it for their own maintenence of global hegemony - then your argument is perfe4ctly sound and fits succinctly within the worldview of such things promoted by Jeff here at RI. THAT is wehy I think the attack on you has been relentless and so seemingly well-orchestrated. OF COURSE, given the nature of anonymous boards, you could be making all of this up for any number of reasons (not least of which would be to damage the crerdibility of real RA victims and to discredit this board). But if you are telling the truth about youyr experiences, then what you have to add is invaluable for all of us here who are seeking truth and understanding of how to oppose this evil and rid it from the face of the planet. I tend to believe your story because it is seemingly not contrived and from the heart (passionate). Those who attack you appear passionless and hence, calculated and heartless and purposeful. Thus they seem liklely liars. But I could be wrong on all counts or on some of them. Bottom line is that if I can get a google association between Crowley, Thelemites, blood rituals, and sacrifice in about 30 seconds, then anyone else could too and the entire attack on you is clearly contrived and duplicitous. I figure that when you get attacked like that you are doing something right. In my case when I was threatened I made copies of all the pertinent information and gave it to a lawyer friend whom I asked to publish it and turn it over to police authorities in the event of my untimely demise. I also kept some very important people apprised of my situation (my Congressperson, my confidante in the investigative world, and my colleagues in the anti-hate vanguard movements). Thus I have some shield from the evil ones. No shield is perfect, but practicvally speaking keeping your info in safe places with trusted allies and threatening to blow it all open if anything happend to you is a great survival technique and why I think Johnny Gosch/Gannon etc. is still running around alive and kicking and having great sex and lots o' fun (he'd blow the Bush-Rove connection to this wide open if they TOUCH him). I took the "no suicide" pledge as well (no killing myself without notice, a well crafted message to my friends and family, and several days in between where there can therefore be no "Rommel's choice" spur of the moment "suiciding" - a favorite of these pervs nowadays). I never plan suicide ever but I suppose it is always an option when suffering is unendurable, but I will fight the evil with my last breath because the evil want me to die and I want to live. All of that is just personal crap though, but friendly advice --- and gratitude for explicating this matter and your use of terms better. Instead of calling you hysterical and all the other nastiness here, the challengers or spooks or whatever they are should simply have said _ "gee, why DO you call them thelemic fundamentalists?" and your well reasoned response might have stopped them in their tracks instead of them derailing this whole discussion. My advice is to start a new thread on the actual facts of this ccase, leave out the labels, and see if we can trace these bastards back to their source and smoke 'em out.

human · Post by **human** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:58 am

seventhson... please please please go back & read page 1... gee, why DO you call them thelemic fundamentalists? is exactly what Tim Boucher was asking... now Biao has answered.... and my god, were starting to make some progress!!!!! difficult topic, difficult questions, difficult answers... I never plan suicide ever but I suppose it is always an option when suffering is unendurable please reconsider that line of thought. one human?

Seventhsonjr · Post by **Seventhsonjr** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:11 am

I had no problem whatsoever with Tim's questions. I windered the same things and it qwould have been useful to have that discussion. But JMRegister jumped in and derailed the thread by repeatedly calling the idea that the heirs to Crowley and his Thelemite fundies were the principal RA perps "hysterical" THAT is what I objected to. It was a verbal assault on a victim and I took serious umbrage even going so far as to call the attackers possible blackoperators. I see no other reason for anyone to prevaricate, derail and attack someone ad hominem. Of COURSE the details of why one might use the term Thelemic fundie for the RA abusers is a decent subject for diuscussion and debate. But that didn't happen because of the personal attack on Biao. Now maybe it can happen. he makes a damn good case and it convinces me more than ever that those attacking him must have a hidden agenda. Boucher is not really one of those. He asked a fair question and got, i think, finally, a fair answer. But the disruption did not help and I think that is exactly what disruptors intend to do. Chaos-build. as for suicide. I am stating unequivocally that that is NOT my course of action but, as a practical reality, when one is in extreme pain it is one real option if there are no others to stop suffering. I am actually opposed to euthenasia and suicide is, I think, an awful and unnecessary and even immoral way to end things when there is any hope at all in MOST circumstances: but as a practical reality it is always an "option" for anyone. My point in raising this issue is to help protect those who might be potential victims of being suicided (as I believe Hunter Thompson, James Hatfield and many others have been done by the dark actors working for the corporofascists). Forewarned is forarmed. If yopu know they want to whack you and a fake suicide is one option for them - publicly declaring, as a journalist or activist etc, that you PROMISE not to do that deed without a fair warning and notice and articulable reasoning so there can be NO DOUBT (as there is for many with Thompson, Hatfield, et al) that it was uyour own free act and deed. If they give you Rommel's choice just say no, thank you, yoiu will have to kill me as I will not do that shit for you asshole.

jmregister · Post by **jmregister** » Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:50 am

I guess Seventhson is the resident crazy at this forum? It seems every board has to have at least one. Kinda ruins the mood for me :/ Note: disruptive diversionary corporofascist Bush black op troll tactic to discredit surviors and defend dispicable necrophile perpetrators

rigorousintuition.ca

More on the Crowley - RA connection (triggers)

Re: Okay Starman - You ASKED for it...

WHY

i dont understand.

Re: i dont understand.

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Re: Amazing thread.

Re: WHY

Re: WHY

um, yeah

Re: um, yeah

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Re: WHY

7th sun

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