skeptic society lectures: "ABDUCTED! alien abductions&a

Ted the dog · Post by **Ted the dog** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:53 pm

I ended up on the Skeptics Society web site the other day while researching modern day doomsday prophets. I noticed that they're based in Pasadena California, which is right near me. I then noticed that they have a monthly lecture series at nearby CalTech, so I signed up for their news letter to find out when the lectures were and what topics would be discussed. Today I got my first schedule. the one that caught my eye is titled, "ABDUCTED! How People Come to Believe They Were Kidnapped by Aliens, by Dr. Susan Clancy". here's the description: "Since there is no evidence that extraterrestrials have been visiting Earth and abducting humans how could anyone believe that they were abducted by aliens? To answer this question, Harvard post-doc psychologist Susan Clancy interviewed and evaluated "abductees", listening closely to their stories - how they struggled to explain something strange in their remembered experience, how abduction seemed plausible, and how, having suspected abduction, they began to recollect it, aided by suggestion and hypnosis. Clancy argues that abductees are sane and intelligent people who have unwittingly created vivid false memories from a toxic mix of nightmares, culturally available texts (abduction reports began only after stories of extraterrestrials appeared in films and on TV), and a powerful drive for meaning that science is unable to satisfy. For them, otherworldly terror can become a transforming, even inspiring experience.” (I guess she wrote a book on the subject and there’s a signing to follow.) Of course, the first thing that popped out at me was, “"Since there is no evidence that extraterrestrials have been visiting Earth and abducting humans how could anyone believe that they were abducted by aliens?” and then, “(abduction reports began only after stories of extraterrestrials appeared in films and on TV), “ it’s funny, because I remember, this is exactly what drew me to RI in the first place....the fact that jeff was talking about the misconceptions involved with UFO/abductee and SRA allegations and stories. the misconceptions like, “there’s no evidence that anything happened” “that was proven to be bullshit back in the early 80’s” etc, etc..... at first I thought maybe her view was something similar to what’s discussed on RI pretty regularly...that these are not “aliens from outer space”, but SOMETHING is happening, and what’s happening is still high weirdness...possibly high weirdness that is carried out by a completely terrestrial source. Nope...that's not the case with this woman. It’s funny to me that someone who is championing her Harvard education would make such blatantly false statements in such an overly simplistic and condescending way....write a book on the subject...and then give a lecture about it. anyone that’s even casually followed along with UFO and/or abductee stories knows both those statements are completely wrong. (actually, I guess maybe there IS no evidence that “aliens from outer space" have visited earth, but there’s plenty of evidence that shows that high weirdness has taken place) How could this woman have talked to all these alleged abductees and make statements like this? I’d imagine that she’s already been called out on this stuff but maybe not. This is the first I’ve heard of her....but a google search reveals that she was recently on Larry King Live with a few other people....pretty unimpressive conversation...she basically attributes the weird occurrences that these abductees are claiming, to be the result of sleep paralysis, misinfo at the hands of the media, suggestion by hypnosis and mainstream media influence (UFOs in movies), and plain old, “mistakes”. have any of you guys ever heard of her? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=tedthedog@rigorousintuition>Ted the dog</A> at: 9/17/05 8:59 pm

Rigorous Intuition · Post by **Rigorous Intuition** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:22 am

and was mightily unimpressed. As you say, very simplistic and condescending. Hauling out the old "sleep paralysis" argument. The most interesting cases I've read have not happened in the bedroom. It's interesting how this Harvard scholar debunking abduction is now being pushed to the fore after the untimely death of Harvard's John Mack, who was a great champion for respecting the weirdness of the event.

FourthBase · Post by **FourthBase** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:57 am

Untimely death? Please elaborate. She seems like a spook, no? On the payroll of the abducters, whoever they are?

Jill Burdigala · Post by **Jill Burdigala** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:18 am

Hi Ted, >>It’s funny to me that someone who is championing her Harvard education would make such blatantly false statements in such an overly simplistic and condescending way. I would suggest that a Harvard education really has no relevance in determining a person's degree of perceptiveness, openmindedness, or willingness to examine uncongenial evidence; it only suggests that the person probably had access to a great deal of money, and the necessary level of intelligence and persistence (or at least the pedigree) to make it through such a school. Of course the name "Harvard" carries a great deal of cachet, so naturally all those involved in this lecture will play it up. But intelligence by itself appears to have little to do with a person's ability to consider opposing points of view. Over the last century-and-a-half (and that includes the present) a great many scientists -- all of whom were immensely intelligent -- have expressed extreme hostility toward uncomfortable new ideas: not just, or not even primarily, because of their self-congratulatory lip service to the rigors of the "scientific method", but because it is just as painful for a brilliant scientist to come to grips with the idea that everything he thought he knew is wrong, and that his life's work is now to some extent invalidated, as it is for anybody else -- perhaps more so. It is right to question anything, of course, and we should all be skeptics -- we should always question what we are told, even (and in fact especially) if it is what we want to hear (I think I'm regurgitating that sentence almost verbatim from something I read here a while back). But in my experience, the people who take the most pride in their "rationality", "skepticism", "adherence to logic", and so forth, are not interested in questioning at all -- they are interested in preserving the inviolability of their predetermined conclusions. They become just as emotional, defensive, and hostile when their beliefs are called into doubt as the "woo woos" they take so much pleasure in deriding. And they are all very intelligent people. I think that many times it is very troubling for people who are very intelligent, but perhaps not quite as strong or secure in other aspects of their being, to accept the idea that there might be something that surpasses the ability of the brain they take so much pride in to comprehend, or that might be beyond the reach of the human intellect to quantify and predict -- in other words, to master.

Avalon · Post by **Avalon** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 1:47 am

Will Bueche has posted some thoughtful responses to the issues Susan Clancy raises, mostly on the UFO Updates list. He was interviewed by Clancy, and participated also in a study run by her supervisor, Richard McNally. If you google "will bueche" "susan clancy" , you'll get about 90 entries. Here are a couple which will give you a little more of the background and context: <a href="http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2002/nov/m08-036.shtml">www.virtuallystrange.net/...-036.shtml</a> <a href="http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2004/aug/m23-009.shtml">www.virtuallystrange.net/...-009.shtml</a>

Rigorous Intuition · Post by **Rigorous Intuition** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:54 am

Happened just about a year ago. Maybe untimely isn't the word - he was 74 - but he was in good health, and it was unnatural causes. Pulitzer winner is killed in accident Boston Globe, September 29, 2004 John E. Mack, a Pulitzer Prize-winning author and Harvard Medical School professor whose research on purported extraterrestrial abductions generated widespread publicity and controversy, died Monday in an automobile accident in London. He was 74. According to Will Bueche, of the John E. Mack Institute in Cambridge, Dr. Mack had been attending a conference in England on T.E. Lawrence. Lawrence is the subject of his psychoanalytic account, "A Prince of Our Disorder: The Life of T.E. Lawrence," which won the 1977 Pulitzer Prize for biography. Dr. Mack was struck by a car while crossing the street. London police pronounced him dead on the scene. "He was a restless, highly creative man who was many-sided," said Robert Jay Lifton, the psychiatrist and author, who was a longtime friend of Dr. Mack's. They worked together in the antinuclear movement, a longstanding concern of Dr. Mack's, and in the application of psychological approaches to the study of history. ... In 1990, Dr. Mack began his research on people who say they have encountered extraterrestrials. He held that such encounters were real, though probably more spiritual than physical in character. His work drew widespread attention in 1994 with the publication of a best-selling book, "Abduction." That year, Harvard Medical School appointed a special faculty committee to review Dr. Mack's clinical care and clinical investigation of his subjects. After a 15-month process, the committee declined to take any action against him. Dr. Mack eventually interviewed some 200 individuals who said they had encounters with extraterrestrials. Although he was subjected to widespread ridicule because of his work, Dr. Mack saw it as a unique opportunity to study spiritual or transformational experience, a theme that ran through much of his earlier work. "No one has been able to come up with a counter-formulation that explains what's going on," Dr. Mack said in a 1992 Globe interview in which he discussed his view of alien encounters. "But if people can't be convinced that this is real, that's OK. All I want is for people to be convinced that there's something going on here that is not explainable." <a href="http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2004/09/29/pulitzer_winner_is_killed_in_accident/" target="top">Boston Globe</a> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rigorousintuition>Rigorous Intuition</A> at: 9/18/05 2:55 am

rain · Post by **rain** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:55 am

there again is one of those curious coinkidinks. only last night I was watching Spiegel/Lean's 'Lawrence',with my kids, who were seeing it for the first time. it was whilst researching some history that I'd come across Al Lawrence's interest in Carchemish, and only now, re-reading your post from the Boston Globe, does the penny drop - oh, I'm a slow learner sometimes - that Mack had written a biography. I'd placed Mack's abductee work in my 'cautiously pessimistic' pidgeon-hole, similar to, say, 'Disclosure'. however, I'd concur at least partially with Mack's colleague David Jacobs - <a href="http://www.ufoabduction.com/">www.ufoabduction.com/</a> - in regard to the breeding programmes, but consider him a wee bit, um, primitive, in some of his other views. nevertheless, for the note-takers we should probably be much appreciative. as to the 'skeptics', I can't understand why anyone would even give them the time of day. and, even within the context of who owns and controls the universities (and education system) why payroll when you can programme.

Dreams End · Post by **Dreams End** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:59 pm

Your honor, my client did not murder the victim so eyewitness reports of his presence at the crime scene are impossible. Great logic, that. Btw, did the police detain the driver of the car that hit Mack? I never saw any mention of who the driver was or whether he was tested for blood alcohol level, etc.

FourthBase · Post by **FourthBase** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:59 pm

Maybe it was the same driver in London who killed Mary Hansen of the subversive music group Stereolab?

dbeach · Post by **dbeach** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:47 pm

alines are lil doms and have tryed to get me in my bed..they suck the soul esence out of you ..then transport you to area where they may think you are moore vulnerable..I have chikoed the lil varmist in my bed..and literally reached with my bare hands into the membrane dimension and slaped and hit them..lil cowards..You should hear it cry when I chocked one it wailed like a wounded animal.. YES they strike during the dream paralysis but they are reall LOOSH EATERS I have seen a UFO from 12 feet away and have a witness.we are wiling to take any oaths or wahtever that we seen it..PLUS that nite..there were many reported sightings.. I am waiting for the balloney when they show up and claim earth as their own and they are superior inteligence WAHT A BUNCH OF BULL!! This is my quote about many of these ANNUKI lovers like sictkin SOUND LIKE A MASSIVE LAND GRAB to ME!!! the aliens and the secret govt inclduding bush and bliar dating back to Eisenrhower have conspired to sell humanity to these lil cannibals..yes they eat humans and drink our blood.. THINK missing kids and mutilated animals.. Branton has much to say about these monsters who are our distant cousins from the origens of TIME.. Some of my rant is my opinion some is based on real life experiences..

DrDebugDU · Post by **DrDebugDU** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:50 pm

The aliens and I mean these as a serious questions. Was it a typical gray? You talk about sleep paralysis. That makes it sound like it was a power field and if it was what kind. High frequency? Low frequency? With mandala dreams or without mandala dreams? I am particaluraly interested in the central channel (running from the crown through the spine to the genitals) or pressure on the crown, third eye, 4 fingers above the hairline, left cheek, right cheek. Any sounds? Especially low frequency "Phut" sounds. Were you suspended in time when it happened? (with that I mean did it feel like the concept of time stopped at that moment) Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=drdebugdu>DrDebugDU</A> at: 9/18/05 4:53 pm

slimmouse · Post by **slimmouse** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:05 pm

Hmm. "skeptics society" Tell me , do they have a 9/11 skeptics lecture, or an "Iraq had WMD conspiracy theory" skeptics lecture ? <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> Perhaps you might propose such a talk Ted <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)">

dbeach · Post by **dbeach** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:48 pm

<a href="http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/">www.thewatcherfiles.com/</a> this is from a Christain site..these depictions of aliens are the ones who visited me now the site has some real info mixed in with govt disinfo BUT the faces are real BTW the spheres at graveyards and in photos of graveyards are the aliens..those spheres were in my house after the fiend lured me downstairs while sleeping..they only attack me while I am sleeping..they are lil cowards the screams of pain sounded quite metallic in tone and with a med/high frequency..sounding like a wounded small animal BTW it ran literally into my heater guards..disapperaring as I was waking..had these visits for yrs thought it was nightmares..think my son is getting them... I bought this resin substance from the site and it has helped... orgone.is the resin name and it smells..

professorpan · Post by **professorpan** » Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:51 pm

I think the sincere skeptics (as opposed to hired propagandists and shills) are worth listening to. They can help refine our thinking and rein us in when we go too far in our speculation (which, in this field, is inevitable on occasion). They also help us work out the kinks in our thinking and how we present our arguments. Most of them are sincere people, just as we are sincere. Their reality tunnel differs, but it doesn't mean they are ill-intentioned.

DrDebugDU · Post by **DrDebugDU** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:50 am

> this is from a Christain site.. Christian sites who are anti-Bush are fine with me. It's those fake Christians and fundies which are a problem > these depictions of aliens are the ones who visited me now the site has some real info mixed in with govt disinfo BUT the faces are real So it is a gray which is the common alien. According to Credo Mutwa they are edible (but they give you a rash <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> ) and it's actually a mask with an even smaller orange creature inside. So that small animal thing makes sense because they are small animals.

rigorousintuition.ca

skeptic society lectures: "ABDUCTED! alien abductions&a

skeptic society lectures: "ABDUCTED! alien abductions&a

I saw her appearance on Larry King

Mack

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Will Bueche on Susan Clancy

Re: Mack

Carchemish calling

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Mack's killer

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What did they look like

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Re: skeptic society lectures: "ABDUCTED! alien abductio

Skeptics

Re: skeptic society lectures: "ABDUCTED! alien abductio