The War on Women

[Agent Orange Cooper]

"Byrum, D-Onondaga, caused a disturbance on the House floor Wednesday when she wasn't allowed to introduce an amendment to the abortion regulations bill banning men from getting a vasectomy unless the sterilization procedure was necessary to save a man's life," the Detroit News reports.

Wow, just wow. Talk about wacko extremist nut job. Holy sh*t!

No woman is going to regulate my right to a vasectomy if I so choose to have the procedure. Well, I already did and didn't bother to ask for any woman's opinion, especially the wacko who tried introducing the repugnant legislation. Get a grip and go play with some other kind of balls.

My sister is an elementary school teacher in Michigan, and is a very liberal, intelligent woman. She thinks the substitute was an idiot and typical of this entitled attitude that is now so pervasive.

Do you think that, uh, maybe that was the point? That a bunch of men who routinely legislate what women can do with their reproductive systems might get up in arms when a woman tries to do the same to them?

Why does using a anatomically appropriate word in an educational setting equate to "an idiot... typical of this entitled attitude that is now so pervasive"? Entitled to what? Use words?

[Iamwhomiam]

I was hoping that Karmamatterz was only joking, but then I read that last paragraph, which leads me to believe he wasn't.

But he's expressed the same outrage of women impacted by abortion legislation quite well, so perhaps he'll better understand how women feel when men create reproductive rights legislation that only impacts women.

I thought the attempted vasectomy legislation was a brilliant tactic, one meant to reveal the emotions in the male members of the legislature similar to those sentiments Karmamatterz shared with us, to see how absurd and personally offensive to women the male member written abortion legislation is.

[Karmamatterz]

I wondered how many people would fail to make the appropriate connections here.

A vasectomy IS NOT akin to getting an abortion. Go look it up. Doubtful most woman will need to and already know the difference. Getting your nuts snipped is for a male the same as a tubal ligation is for women. Now why the hell is that so hard for people to understand?

There is NO male equivalent for an abortion. But somehow some people think there is or just aren't capable of seeing it's not a logical comparison.

I am pro choice by the way, not that it matters much.

If you don't get why a teacher has to watch what they say in class around children then perhaps you don't understand discretion. My father was also a teacher his entire life and probably would have rolled his eyes (if he were still alive) at the dumb sub for lacking better judgement. I like the word vagina, its a beautiful part of the female body. No problem using the word (or the word penis) when appropriate. Some adult parents and school boards prefer that some language not be used around children. Pretty common sense. Perhaps the sub should have taken the time to read up on her employers handbook to learn a few things. If you get what political correctness has done to our culture then you will get why talking about how something looks like a vagina in class could be considered by some inappropriate. Wonder if it had been a male teacher and he mentioned how something looked like a penis? Eeegads, the horror and triggers would have resulted in enormous backlash.

[Project Willow]

http://www.feministcurrent.com/2016/04/ ... ilization/

Doctors still won’t let women choose sterilization as a permanent birth control method

[Karmamatterz]

Willow,

So it's not a legal issue as in state/federal law bit more of a doctors decision? I was not aware, not that I have reason to generally study up on this, that there was legal requirement to obtain tubal ligation. Sounds like the docs making the choice for the patient? Is that what it's coming down to?

On a personal note my doctor told me he would not have done the procedure had I not already fathered my two children. He made me think about it and come back for a second visit before giving the ok. He was opposed to the procedure for males who were married, potent and without children. I had no problem with any of that as it wasn't a long wait and my docs seriousness made me take pause to ponder it. Lame if docs are refusing if someone already has kids and wants to be done. Find another doc.

[Iamwhomiam]

I wondered how many people would fail to make the appropriate connections here.

A vasectomy IS NOT akin to getting an abortion. Go look it up. Doubtful most woman will need to and already know the difference. Getting your nuts snipped is for a male the same as a tubal ligation is for women. Now why the hell is that so hard for people to understand?

There is NO male equivalent for an abortion. But somehow some people think there is or just aren't capable of seeing it's not a logical comparison.

I am pro choice by the way, not that it matters much.

If you don't get why a teacher has to watch what they say in class around children then perhaps you don't understand discretion. My father was also a teacher his entire life and probably would have rolled his eyes (if he were still alive) at the dumb sub for lacking better judgement. I like the word vagina, its a beautiful part of the female body. No problem using the word (or the word penis) when appropriate. Some adult parents and school boards prefer that some language not be used around children. Pretty common sense. Perhaps the sub should have taken the time to read up on her employers handbook to learn a few things. If you get what political correctness has done to our culture then you will get why talking about how something looks like a vagina in class could be considered by some inappropriate. Wonder if it had been a male teacher and he mentioned how something looked like a penis? Eeegads, the horror and triggers would have resulted in enormous backlash.

Of course a vasectomy and an abortion are not equivalent. The logical comparison is one sex dictating their will upon another.

The comparison, logical or not, is valid. It seems you missed the point of why such legislation was attempted. It's fine and dandy for men to dictate to women what reproductive rights they will have, but as you so well expressed, are outraged when a woman attempts to do something similar to men.

Vasectomies are reversible, as are pregnancies.

Vagina is a clinical term. As was pointed out, 'vulva' would have been more appropriate when discussing the work of Georgia O'Keefe. If firing the teacher who uttered the word vagina was politically correct, it was morally wrong.

When are these parents going to realize their children are now pubescent, sexual creatures driven to procreate? Do you think any student was offended? I doubt any were, but surely one told their parent who then took issue with it.

[Project Willow]

Yes, the central issue the offending legislation sought to make was, who has control over your body? Ideally, it is only you. The perennial issue is, of course, that female bodies are not entitled to the same rights and privileges as male bodies.

[Nordic]

I still don't quite understand how anyone could think that the substitute teacher was "an idiot" for using the word "vagina" in an 8th grade class.

WTF. What do they teach in sex ed? Or in goddamm biology class??? That animals just sorta magically reproduce? Immaculate conception? That women and girls look like Barbie dolls "down there"?

It's not Sunday school with a bunch of 1st graders. It's a public school where the whole notion for its existence is supposedly education.

[KUAN]

vagina ...there, i said it

[KUAN]

.

Nah, you want an abortion, or a nip n tuck - knock y'self out

[Karmamatterz]

The comparison, logical or not, is valid. It seems you missed the point of why such legislation was attempted. It's fine and dandy for men to dictate to women what reproductive rights they will have, but as you so well expressed, are outraged when a woman attempts to do something similar to men.

No, I did not miss the comparison. Does 1+1=3?

The legislation attempt was a poor one.

Vagina, penis, dick, pussy etc....

Spoken at the wrong time/place offends people. Does not offend me personally. Seems this perhaps wasn't the time or place for it to be acceptable. Sex ed class is a different context/place, no? It is dumb not to know your employer rules going into a job. Schools are messy places with this sort of stuff. People are sensitive about words. Use your imagination and one can easily see how A LOT of words could cause issues. Lawsuits, fundies, religious zealots, political correct zealots etc have created a chilling effect on expression. This is no different. Only trying to look at this from the perspective of those that prefer teachers use discretion.

In all seriousness, imagine a male teacher used the same words, or penis, and a girl who had been molested or raped was in the class. What if that girl had a flashback or was somehow triggered, then went home upset? Would that be different or matter? Not sure...but curious if anyone would look at this differently?

[DrEvil]

The legislation attempt was a poor one.

That was the whole point. She was trolling the male members (harhar) of congress to make a point.

Men deciding female reproductive rights: A-OK.

Women deciding male reproductive rights: OMFG! Are you crazy!1!!11

[Karmamatterz]

When are these parents going to realize their children are now pubescent, sexual creatures driven to procreate? Do you think any student was offended? I doubt any were, but surely one told their parent who then took issue with it.

Yes, it only take some paret to raise a stink. When my kids were little their elementary school banned Halloween costumes and any celebration of Halloween because ONE parent thought it was pagan and evil. My kids would not be offended by the word used in art class. But, if a teacher was chatting and used the wrong word outside of the appropriate setting they would be creeped out. Thus schools just blanket ban certain behavior. Sucks, but that is the society we now have. Why do you think school shave gone overboard and suspended little boys for writing love letter to girls in class?

Nordic, you make good points. I guess I'm just frustrated by all the political correctness we live with now. It comes in many flavors: sexism, racism, religion, victimization etc....it is pervasive and creates a chilling effect on discussions that ought to be allowed.

[Iamwhomiam]

Yes, WIllow, exactly.

Karmamatterz, the outrage you expressed after reading about the bill a New York Representative attempted to introduce to Congress, was meant to evoke just those feelings in Congressmen. The purpose was to show men how very offensive anti-abortion legislation is to women by evoking in them the outrage you yourself expressed, to get them to better understand women's position from the same point of view.

What is good for the goose is not good for the gander. How about equal rights for all, as our Constitution requires?

Regarding a male art history teacher of 8th grade advanced placement teens mentioning the word "penis": If the class was studying what some call the greatest, sculpture ever created, Michelangelo's "David," mentioning 'penis' should be acceptable, as should the mention of 'vagina' by a woman teaching the same students about Virginia O'Keefe's work.

It is impossible to do justice to education by ignoring the focus of O'Keefe's work, which is symbolic. Of a vagina. Her work is also quite beautiful.

[Cordelia]

vagina ...there, i said it

Thanks--I kinda liked the reminder of an outburst by an 8th grader, which is never p.c. (thank god).