Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

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Belligerent Savant
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Post by Belligerent Savant »

.
“In the period 1982-2019 we have observed a decrease in cloud cover from 64 % to 61%.

This means that the Earth has received significantly more solar radiation.

This may well be the main explanation for the observed temperature increase of about 0.7C during this period.”

Prof Ole Humlum
University of Oslo

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They take the raw data and "correct it" by cooling the past to make the appearance of warming more alarming.

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Michael Shellenberger
@shellenberger

Climate policy prevented the IPCC’s high emissions scenario, say the media. It didn’t. The scenario was never possible as it predicted burning 5x more coal than is known to exist, even as natural gas was replacing it. The IPCC must be radically reformed or shut down.

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Governments, banks, and corporations across the developed world have for nearly four decades treated the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) as the final word on the science of climate change.

The Obama and Biden administrations regulated carbon dioxide as a pollutant on the strength of IPCC findings. The European Union built its emissions trading system around IPCC scenarios. The United Kingdom anchored its 2008 Climate Change Act in projections drawn from the panel’s reports.

Central banks established a Network for Greening the Financial System that now requires more than 140 supervisors to stress-test banks against IPCC-derived futures. Asset managers wrote trillions of dollars in environmental, social, and governance funds on the assumption that the panel’s high-end scenario described the world’s likely path.

Local governments along American and European coastlines planned seawalls and zoning rules around IPCC sea level numbers. Insurance companies repriced risk on the same models.

That assumption has now collapsed. In April 2026, the scenario committee that supplies the IPCC’s Seventh Assessment Report, known as ScenarioMIP, published a paper that concluded that “on the high-end of the range, the CMIP6 high emission levels (quantified by SSP5-8.5) have become implausible…”

In other words, the worst-case future that has anchored climate science for fifteen years describes a world that cannot exist. Scenario “RCP 8.5,” and its successor SSP5-8.5, generated more than half of the references in the 2018 U.S. Fourth National Climate Assessment. They accounted for nearly 60% of the references in the IPCC’s Special Report on the Ocean and Cryosphere. Thirty new studies per day are published based on RCP 8.5.

The IPCC’s defenders insist that the world dodged the apocalypse because of climate policy. A modeler told Carbon Brief that RCP 8.5 had “become implausible, based on trends in the costs of renewables, the emergence of climate policy and recent emission trends.”

Berkeley Earth’s Zeke Hausfather argued that “it is incontrovertible that rapid cost declines, investment in, and deployment of clean energy technologies in the past 15 years have changed the plausible scenarios for fossil fuel use later in this century.

These new scenarios reflect this success.” Robert Vautard, co-chair of the IPCC’s Working Group I for the upcoming Seventh Assessment Report, said that the previous high scenarios “started in 2015 and assumed no climate policies, but there ARE now many climate policies in many countries, developed in particular with the Paris Agreement,” and the retirement of RCP 8.5 “shows that climate mitigation policies do consistently reduce global warming.”

Michael Mann of the University of Pennsylvania said on X, “The good news is emissions are now tracking below older ‘business-as-usual’ pathways because of climate policy in spite of Trump.”

But that story is false. RCP 8.5 was never plausible, and the people who built it either knew or should have known. A 2017 paper by Justin Ritchie and Hadi Dowlatabadi in the journal Energy showed that the scenario assumed roughly an eightfold expansion of global coal consumption by 2100, far exceeding five times proven coal reserves, based on extrapolating early-2000s Chinese coal growth rates indefinitely into the future.

Coal’s share of the global energy mix peaked around 2013 and has fallen since, the opposite of the RCP 8.5 trajectory. The scenario also assumed a dramatic expansion of coal-to-liquids technology to replace petroleum, a technology that the United States and other industrialized economies abandoned in the 1980s when the collapse in oil prices killed off the Carter-era Synthetic Fuels Corporation.

None of those assumptions reflected what serious energy analysts were saying in 2011, when the scenario was finalized. The American shale gas revolution had already been underway for half a decade. Between 2005 and 2022, U.S. carbon emissions from electricity generation fell by roughly 35%, with more than 60% of that decline driven by switching from coal to natural gas.

In 2021, Roger Pielke Jr. and his coauthors found that observed emissions had been running below the RCP and SSP baseline scenarios for two decades, primarily because of slower-than-projected carbon intensity growth, not climate policy. As Pielke put it recently, “RCP8.5 is not simply ‘highly unlikely,’ it is falsified, meaning that its emissions trajectory is already well out of step with reality. We knew that in 2020.”

IPCC’s scenario builders thus broke their own definition of a scenario, which the IPCC’s 2000 Special Report on Emissions Scenarios defined as is “a coherent, internally consistent, and plausible description of a possible future state of the world,” and RCP 8.5 was none of those things....
https://x.com/shellenberger/status/2059 ... 96247?s=20

All of the above aside, I will type once again: everyday anthropogenic factors or actions by the common citizenry (typical everyday humans anywhere/everywhere) have NO impact on "climate change".

One of numerous egregious lies/scams of the modern era.
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

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Would it kill you to provide proper links to the stuff you post? Where did the Ole Humlum quotes come from (no, I'm not signing up to Twitter/xAI/SpaceX)?

All of the above aside, I will type once again: everyday anthropogenic factors or actions by the common citizenry (typical everyday humans anywhere/everywhere) have NO impact on "climate change".
So (8.3 billion) humans can't cut down or burn forests, destroy wetlands or release aerosols that create acid rain or reflect sunshine?
They take the raw data and "correct it" by cooling the past to make the appearance of warming more alarming.
The raw data is no good on its own. Here's an overview of why and how the adjustments are made:

https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-h ... e-records/
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

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So (8.3 billion) humans can't cut down or burn forests, destroy wetlands or release aerosols that create acid rain or reflect sunshine?
lets keep the focus on where it belongs and maybe your outlook will change (if not financially influenced) from pro to neutral. an entity (for which you are shilling) cannot do anything positive about that. said entity, the so-called "government" ain't playing and they badly want to do something about that. unctious feelings about what is right or wrong are irrelevant when there's a wolf at the door. don't open for him, please
But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

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Thankfully your so-called government isn't my government. If it was just coming from the US I would be more skeptical, but it isn't, it's everyone. And it's not really governments pushing for this (at least it wasn't) - most governments have been fighting tooth and nail for decades to not do anything, and many still are. The US is run by a bunch of denier half-wits. India is run by a denier (while thousands die in heatwaves). Fuck knows what Putin really thinks, but oil and gas are what keeps the war machine going, etc.

The only reason there's any movement at all is because a) it's blindingly obvious what's going on by now, and b) renewables are getting cheaper than fossil fuels.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

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DrEvil wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2026 3:45 pm Would it kill you to provide proper links to the stuff you post? Where did the Ole Humlum quotes come from (no, I'm not signing up to Twitter/xAI/SpaceX)?
Here is an AI-generated summary (which includes biased content and is riddled with status quo counters):

https://share.google/aimode/7VNRCnakVMeRS3yIX

You can also look up the statements/studies put forth by the professor, of course. It's out there to be found.

I'll help kick-start the effort:

https://scholar.google.com/citations?us ... AAAJ&hl=no

DrEvil:
So (8.3 billion) humans can't cut down or burn forests, destroy wetlands or release aerosols that create acid rain or reflect sunshine?
Yes, but most of those actions aren't performed by 'everyday' humans performing everyday tasks.
The notion that citizens in any nation need to have their agency (or ways of life, etc.) curbed to stop "global warming/climate change" is absurd non-science. This is my primary point.

Most of the climate alarm narratives are BS scare tactics/disinfo to induce a variety of reactions, facilitating the passage of objectives that benefit the miniscule few at the expense of the majority.

To be clear, the climate does indeed fluctuate, as it has throughout the age of the Earth. It's possible we may be in the midst of a cyclical shift in climate/weather patterns. Additionally, certain entities (govt agencies/black ops, etc) have been manipulating certain weather patterns -- via localized targeting, etc; see my prior posts in this thread Re: geo-engineering. Other actions, like deforestation, also negatively impact environments. But plebe-derived 'anthropogenic' climate change as presented/posited to the masses (and utilized to drive various regulatory and/or legislative measures) is utter nonsense.


As with many issues in this modern era, the masses are conditioned, manipulated, primed and propagandized to think and act against their collective interests. Unfortunately many continue to be swayed by such tactics, to our detriment.
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DrEvil
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

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Thanks, I'll skip the pathological liar summary (in case you aren't aware: AIs lying and making shit up is a feature, not a bug. It's an intrinsic part of how they work).

As for this:
Yes, but most of those actions aren't performed by 'everyday' humans performing everyday tasks.
That's misleading in the extreme. The constant fucking over of nature is a direct result of everyday people wanting stuff, even if most of them aren't directly involved in the fucking over.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Post by DrEvil »

Meanwhile, heat records are being broken left and right in Europe (again) with the second heatwave of the summer, and it's still only June, and the May heatwave in India killed about 30,000 people in five days.

Almost like there's something going on. What could it be?
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

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Summer.
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Post by Laodicean »

30,000 people died in India, everybody.
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Belligerent Savant
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Post by Belligerent Savant »

Indeed.

Anyone still insisting that Summer weather can ONLY mean everyday humans are contributing to 'climate change' is an irredeemable rube at this point, or a shill.

DrEvil: I'm acutely aware of how LLMs/GenAI operate -- hence the disclaimer in my post -- though it largely spits out bias IN FAVOR of status quo narratives (which is clearly in-line with your positions here), and in any event I also included original content from the author that corroborates my earlier quote.
So you were either dishonest or lazy with your hand-waving.

While I'm here:
Chris Martz
@ChrisMartzWX

Thankfully I have numbers rather than opinions.

The average number of days per year in the U.S. reaching 95°F was ~18% lower during the 60-year period 1961 to 2020 compared to 1901 to 1960.

The number of days reaching 100°F and 105°F have also declined since 1895.

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Electroverse
@Electroversenet

Back in 2008, NASA's top climate scientist James Hansen warned that the Arctic was nearing a tipping point and would be ice-free by 2018.

Politicians hailed him as a visionary, with Congressman Ed Markey even calling him a "climate prophet."

Years later though, and the ice-free Arctic still hasn't materialized. Every summer, millions of square kilometers of sea ice remain, rising and falling naturally, within the same range they've held since 2007.

That's going on two decades of stability and counting. The long-term trend is flat. The prophecy has failed.
https://x.com/Electroversenet/status/20 ... 24667?s=20
@noturbine

However. James Hansen was 100% right about this...
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Well, he's not close to "100%" right, in that he uses the canard "fossil fuels" and also alludes to pollution/waste causing "climate change", which it doesn't, at least not as he surmises in the above quote. But he is correct in calling out the nonsense Re: "renewables". And on that cue...

Re: "green energy/net zero" scams:
Peter Clack
@PeterDClack
·
Almost all the reinforced concrete foundations of wind turbines ever built — weighing up to a thousand tonnes each — could be left to rot in the ground.

The number of turbines reaching the end of their working lives will soon surpass tens of thousands. As they degrade, they risk shedding their oily gearbox fluids, hydraulic liquids, and synthetic lubricants into the soil.

No one wants to deal with these massive concrete and steel monoliths later. Concrete may be mostly inert, but over the decades, these blocks can disrupt deep-soil hydrology and remain as permanent industrial junk below the surface of rural landscapes.

The concrete base of a typical early 2-3 MW wind turbine weighs 400 to 800 tonnes. But the foundations of later, even bigger turbines (5 MW+) can exceed 1,000 tonnes.

In many jurisdictions, decommissioning regulations only require the operator to clear the foundation to a depth of 1 meter below the surface. While contracts state operators are responsible, the financial reality is complex.

Bank guarantees or bonds set aside for removal (around $100,000 per turbine) are woefully inadequate. Real-world estimates for total removal and site restoration can exceed $200,000 to $400,000 per unit.

If the cost of total removal vastly exceeds the bond, there is a strong incentive for shell companies to declare bankruptcy — leaving landowners to foot the bill.

We are already seeing this play out at Victoria's Codrington wind farm. Operators announced plans to remove only the top 1.5-meter pedestal, leaving the bulk of the project's 20,000 tonnes of subterranean foundations permanently buried.

This triggered an intense backlash from local communities and MPs who argue it violates the original promise to restore the land.

It leaves a disturbing legacy.

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Peter Clack
@PeterDClack
·
Discarded wind turbine blades equal to the volume of 215,000 steel locomotives will need to be recycled, incinerated or sent to landfill sites by 2050.

This crisis is no longer a distant possibility set somewhere in the future. It's already happening, and a massive wave of early-generation turbines is reaching its end-of-life. By then, there will be 1.3 million decommissioned turbine blades weighing as much as 43 million tons.

These blades are made of high-strength composite material designed to survive decades of brutal weather, and are notoriously difficult to recycle. They were built to last, but they weren't built to disappear into thin air.

The European wind industry has already enacted a landfill ban on decommissioned blades from January 1, 2026. Panic is spreading about where to put them — because a blade recycling infrastructure doesn't exist yet. There is a growing repugnance at the thought of creating endless turbine blade graveyards despoiling our fields and hillsides.

In France, at least 55% of a rotor blade’s mass must be recycled or reused, effective since January 2025.

While European industry groups have pushed for a blade landfill ban, the reality is that recycling these polymers costs up to $2,000 per ton — compared to just $60 to dump them in landfills. The infrastructure simply doesn't exist to handle the volume.

Without a cost-effective, workable way to recycle fibre-reinforced polymers, the majority of them are destined for blade graveyards somewhere. Or they will have to be stockpiled indefinitely everywhere blade landfilling has been banned.

China, Europe, and the US will account for the vast majority of this waste, creating a mountainous industrial heartache that many Net Zero models simply haven't priced in.

Or has anyone even thought about it yet?

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Elihu
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Post by Elihu »

Thankfully your so-called government isn't my government
you have a technique that attests to your longevity here.

yeah. we are talking about the same government. the one that commissions and pays for (and hence corrupts) the science that you repeat everyday. it comes complete with conclusions and model legislation. and the money. don't forget the money. these aren't one-off studies. they're permanent jobs for thousands of bootlickers. and you are in the attending chorus.

fear of what might happen and dismay that everyone won't fall into line need to take a back seat to the threat of a dangerous mob led around by cunning business men.

are you concerned about climate? divorce yourself from the organization and we'll talk. if you're on the payroll consider henry david thoreau's advice to the tax collector that knocked on his door: Q "what would you have me do?" A "resign your post"
But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
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Belligerent Savant
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

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Dr Mototaka Nakamura has called climate models mere "toys."

They're tuned with guesswork, he says, ignore key drivers like clouds, oceans and the sun, and cannot predict climate.

Dr Nakamura is far from fringe.

He earned his doctorate at MIT, worked with NASA and Caltech, and spent 25 years studying climate dynamics.

"Climate models are Mickey-Mouse mockeries of the real world," he says. And he argues scientists have falsified records to exaggerate recent warming, exaggerations that underpin trillion-dollar policies.

Nakamura says meaningful climate forecasting is an impossibility, and that CO2 isn't the control knob.
https://x.com/Electroversenet/status/20 ... 42495?s=20

Dr. Mototaka Nakamura has spent decades studying cloud dynamics and forces mixing atmospheric and ocean flows on medium to planetary scales. He has published 20 climate papers on fluid dynamics. He is what one would call an expert on climate science.

Dr Nakamura is one of an increasing number of climate scientists who are taking a stand against the shrill bullying of the man-made climate change crowd. In June, he published a small book in Japanese on “the sorry state of climate science”. It’s titled Confessions of a climate scientist: the global warming hypothesis is an unproven hypothesis.

Quadrant Online has published an article that neatly summarizes Dr Namamura’s position. That, while climate models are useful tools for academic studies, “the models just become useless pieces of junk or worse (worse in a sense that they can produce gravely misleading output) when they are used for climate forecasting.” He further states, “I am confident that some honest and courageous, true climate scientists will continue to publicly point out the fraudulent claims made by the mainstream climate science community in English.”

He projects warming from CO2 doubling, “according to the true experts”, to be only 0.5degC. Hardly the existential climate event we are told we are faced with.
https://enigmachronicle.com/2019/09/25/ ... ypothesis/
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Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Post by Belligerent Savant »

.

...and yet the shrill screeches among many in the "climate alarm!" camp will persist. They refuse to re-assess.

Same with the fools that continue to insist "vaccines"(among other pharma products) are a net benefit.

Or that we are on the cusp of travel to Mars.

Rubes of the zeitgeist.

Worshiping the False God of 'Progress'.
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