Aliens are fiddling with our nukes

[Stephen Morgan]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... claim.html

[barracuda]

Related threads:

The Truth Behind UFO Sightings and the U.S. Air Force

UFO Press Club Press Conference on Monday, September 27th

Malmstrom AFB missile shutdown, 1967.

[meng]

This past week on Dreamland Linda Moulton Howe interviewed Robert Salas...

http://www.unknowncountry.com/dreamland/?id=519

[Nowhere Man]

If aliens are so concerned with our impending nuclear catastrophe, where were they in 1945, during the Hiroshima & Nagasaki A-bombings? Or the Dresden blanket-bombings (which was even worse)?

Related threads:

The Truth Behind UFO Sightings and the U.S. Air Force

UFO Press Club Press Conference on Monday, September 27th

Malmstrom AFB missile shutdown, 1967.

[barracuda]

Well, man, there's a strain of thought which conjectures that those early implosions, including Trinity, were the events which really brought the curiosity of a certain type of presence to bear upon us, and that before then we were only interesting in a small way but suddenly became recogizable as a danger. Another theory is that the reaction itself produces a rift which allowed access to our realm unavailable to some beforehand.

[jingofever]

If aliens are so concerned with our impending nuclear catastrophe, where were they in 1945, during the Hiroshima & Nagasaki A-bombings? Or the Dresden blanket-bombings (which was even worse)?

A possibility. A survivor's account:

Hiroshima was in flames. A girl of five at the time of the bombing recalled: "Black smoke was billowing up and we could hear the sound of big things exploding. . . .Those dreadful streets. The fires were burning. There was a strange smell all over. Blue-green balls of fire were drifting around. I had a terrible lonely feeling that everybody else in the world was dead and only we were still alive."

And my comment:

A nuclear blast probably does funny things with plasma and she doesn't say what size those balls were and who knows what condition her eyes were in but I wonder if those "blue-green balls of fire" were foo fighters inspecting the damage or whatever it is they did during their tour of duty.

Well, man, there's a strain of thought which conjectures that those early implosions, including Trinity, were the events which really brought the curiosity of a certain type of presence to bear upon us, and that before then were were only interesting in a small way but then became recognizable as a danger. Another theory is that the reaction itself produces a rift which allowed access to our realm unavailable to some beforehand.

I think UFO sightings go back too far to take that seriously. I mean, foo fighters predate Trinity. And if it created a rift then the thermonuclear reactions in stars could just as easily do the trick. Unless they cannot travel through stars or whatever but just saying a nuclear explosion creates a rift doesn't explain anything.

[barracuda]

I think UFO sightings go back too far to take that seriously. I mean, foo fighters predate Trinity.

Yes, but the post-war era is really when the waves began.

And if it created a rift then the thermonuclear reactions in stars could just as easily do the trick. Unless they cannot travel through stars or whatever but just saying a nuclear explosion creates a rift doesn't explain anything.

I agree. I don't take the nuclear gateway idea seriously either, as anything but a science-fiction plot device.

[Sepka]

If you're looking for a triggering event for the 1947 wave: There's a two year gap between the first atomic bombs and the summer of 1947 wave. There's a much tighter correlation between the abrupt end of Jack Parsons & Ron Hubbard's "Babalon Working" and the sudden deluge of saucers. Parsons and Hubbard began in March 1946 to undertake a major Thelemic ceremony intended to open a doorway between this world and another, and to allow a female elemental, Babalon (sic) to become incarnate in this world, through which they hoped to gain earthly power. They based the form of their working on Aleister Crowley's 1918 working 'Amalantrah', in which he summoned a being called 'Lam' who greatly resembled a "grey" of the type now associated with UFOs.

Crowley was said to be appalled when he found out what Parsons and Hubbard were up to, as he judged them competent enough to open the doorway, but not to control it once they had it. In the actual event, Parsons and Hubbard had a falling out in the late spring of 1947, and left their working incomplete, without closing the gate that they had already opened. Shortly thereafter the flying saucer wave began.

This isn't necessarily a theory that I accept without reservation, but viewing the UFOs as paranormal in nature, close relatives of the gods and demons that men saw in ages past, makes a lot more sense to me than seeing them as mundane hardware and occupants from another planet.

[psynapz]

viewing the UFOs as paranormal in nature, close relatives of the gods and demons that men saw in ages past, makes a lot more sense to me than seeing them as mundane hardware and occupants from another planet.

Wait, so the mystical, mythical, dare I say theological explanation for apparently-intelligently-directed objects appearing around the various celestial bodies we have cameras pointed at, around low orbit as seen from low orbit, appearing to fly in our atmosphere as seen from the ground or from airplanes at both commercial and military altitudes, and appearing on the ground with apparent brains-with-arms-and-legs getting out and walking around doing stuff... makes a lot more sense to you than seeing them as parallel bio-developments with the technological achievement of physical interstellar travel using available materials and applied scientific theory? What crashed in New Mexico in '47 then? A hellship piloted by demon babies?

I don't think science and the practical application thereof necessarily has to be limited to an anthrocentric phenomenon, so while I'm sure all manner of high-weird and spooky Damned Things from who-knows-where, describable only in mythic terms due to their observation falling outside any existing frame of reference, are nonetheless simultaneously occurring (epochally speaking) with nuts-and-bolts visitations, I ask you, why can't it be both?

[jingofever]

They based the form of their working on Aleister Crowley's 1918 working 'Amalantrah', in which he summoned a being called 'Lam' who greatly resembled a "grey" of the type now associated with UFOs.

There was a thread here a long time ago that debunked or at least strongly questioned the identification of Lam with greys. I don't remember what the thread was called, I only know that yesferatu agreed with it. I'd ask him but he was banned years ago. Even without that I would disagree that Lam greatly resembles a grey. The biggest difference is the eyes. Lam has little slits while the greys are depicted with giant black eyes that are maybe their most distinguishing feature.

This isn't necessarily a theory that I accept without reservation, but viewing the UFOs as paranormal in nature, close relatives of the gods and demons that men saw in ages past, makes a lot more sense to me than seeing them as mundane hardware and occupants from another planet.

I think hardware and occupants from another planet makes the most sense because we know it is possible in principle while gods, demons, elves, etc. are as far as we know from the land of make believe.

[Luther Blissett]

There was a thread here a long time ago that debunked or at least strongly questioned the identification of Lam with greys. I don't remember what the thread was called, I only know that yesferatu agreed with it. I'd ask him but he was banned years ago. Even without that I would disagree that Lam greatly resembles a grey. The biggest difference is the eyes. Lam has little slits while the greys are depicted with giant black eyes that are maybe their most distinguishing feature.

One possible explanation is the numerous accounts in the literature where the experiencers felt or believed that the black eyes were merely lenses and that the true eyes were behind them. Did Streiber put this idea forth first? I've read it in numerous sources.

I'm definitely in the "they were nuts and bolts craft, here before, but with increasing interest in our nuclear programme as it progressed."

[Sepka]

If one believes the flying discs, triangles, etc., to be from another planet, then how would one account for the airships and the men with mechanical wings so often seen in the late 19th and early 20th centuries? How about the flying ships and men swimming in air seen in the 14th and 15th centuries? I think these are all the same phenomenon, manifesting differently according to the expectations of the observer. In every age, observers see something that's beyond known technology, but plausible to the observer given the popular beliefs of the time. Nothing in that rules out these things having an actual, corporeal existence, at least for as long as it takes them to interact with the observer.

[jingofever]

If one believes the flying discs, triangles, etc., to be from another planet, then how would one account for the airships and the men with mechanical wings so often seen in the late 19th and early 20th centuries? How about the flying ships and men swimming in air seen in the 14th and 15th centuries? I think these are all the same phenomenon, manifesting differently according to the expectations of the observer. In every age, observers see something that's beyond known technology, but plausible to the observer given the popular beliefs of the time. Nothing in that rules out these things having an actual, corporeal existence, at least for as long as it takes them to interact with the observer.

I don't know much about the airships but have a dim view of the newspapers that were reporting a lot of the sightings. But still I have no opinion on whether or not people actually saw them. I know that a few of the popular sightings are considered hoaxes today (the Aurora crash and the airship lassoing a cow). Men swimming in the air can easily be explained by trebuchet accidents. But I know even less about those incidents than I do airships. Jacques Vallee's recent book suggests that 'our' UFOs have been around for at least thousands of years.

There is the possibility that humans describe these objects in ways they understand but I don't really buy that explanation. I think a flying train would be a closer description of a modern UFO than a flying ship. It could be that a witness described a UFO as sailing in the air like a ship on the water and the reporter wrote down that the witness saw an airship. And we know what happens after that. Do we know much about how primitive people describe their brief encounters with advanced technology? I'd love to see some drawings and descriptions of the helicopters that occasionally buzz the stone age tribes of South America and the South Pacific.

[Sepka]

Men swimming in the air can easily be explained by trebuchet accidents.

Bwahahahhh!!!

There is the possibility that humans describe these objects in ways they understand but I don't really buy that explanation.

Nor do I. In my experience, the vast majority of intelligent observers will understand when they're seeing something completely out of their experience, and will describe it rather than categorizing it. Pliny the Younger's description of the eruption of Vesuvius comes to mind. Prior to the mid 19th century, of course, anyone who could leave a written record was educated, and probably of above average intelligence as well.

I think the medieval monks who reported seeing sailing ships in the sky saw just that. I think that did you or I travel back in time to stand beside them, we'd see sailing ships in the sky as well. I think the sailing ships were a manifestation of the same phenomenon that currectly produces flying triangles and other machine-like forms. I think in the middle ages they displayed as ships and flying men because those held meaning for the middle ages, just as today starships and spacemen visitng earth from afar hold meaning for us.

A show is being put on for our benefit, and that show in intended to influence our thoughts and actions - of that I have no doubt. The real question is what are they trying to get us to do, and is it in our own best interests to do so.

Do we know much about how primitive people describe their brief encounters with advanced technology? I'd love to see some drawings and descriptions of the helicopters that occasionally buzz the stone age tribes of South America and the South Pacific.

In the immediate aftermath of WWII, the Melanesian Cargo Cults produced a large body of wood and shell fetishes intended to capture the essence of American military equipment. There's an interesting control group there, since most of the work represents items such as rifles, radios, and other military accoutrements that they saw close-up, and were able to examine, in many cases. Some of their work represents planes and ships, however, that they were only able to observe from a distance.



That is, I think, a pretty reasonable facsimile of a light scouting plane. Interestingly, while alien objects like planes and radios hewed pretty true to form, their "rifles with bayonets" turned pretty quickly into heavy spears with a blade mounted underneath the business end:



Those look much less like a rifle than the first fetish does an airplane. I think the reason for that is that a rifle with a bayonet on the end can be understood as a clumsy spear, and they're interpreting it that way. A badly-designed spear is more approachable than a machine that flies, and so they're comfortable representing what they feel is the true essence of the object, whereas with a plane or radio, who can tell which features are truly important and which are not?

It may well be that stranger objects are more carefully and accurately described than objects that are presumed to be understood and commonplace.