David Icke is right: Poll

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

We all secretly agree with David Icke.

Poll ended at Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:35 pm

Only the bloodlines bit.
1
6%
He's a wacko.
5
31%
He's an anti-Semite
2
13%
Lizard brains? Yes. Shapeshifters? No.
3
19%
All of it. He's right.
5
31%
 
Total votes : 16

Postby theeKultleeder » Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:18 pm

I listened to the first part of Watt's talk with Noory. He quoted Icke and mentioned a plot to change and control the world based on the sun-symbolism of revolution. He went on about banking and stuff, and agreed with Icke on the bloodlines bit. They avoided talking about lizard people.

This goes to the fact that a source is just a source, not an end-all authority. I, like Icke suggests, don't believe everything he says, nor will I completely buy into Watt's worldview.

I'm starting to see in the newsletter that maybe Icke was defending his position about the Reps against Watt's disbelief. If Icke really doesn't care what Watt thinks, good for him. I would hate to see him (Icke) degenerate into upholding a cult of personality.

As a matter of fact, Watt and Icke would make a great research team!

On edit: As another matter of fact, doesn't antiaristo's claims back up Icke's bloodlines theories exquisitely?
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Postby slimmouse » Sat Sep 01, 2007 7:37 pm

Attack Ships on Fire wrote:
Wombaticus Rex wrote:^^What are the "scientific clues" for reptilians? That definitely piques my interest.


My argument regarding the "speculative scientific evidence" -( note speculative evidence, as opposed to" scientific clues" WR ) is precisely that.

It's speculative based upon what we know about the nature, but more importantly the content of the energy of the universe in general - That is to say little to nothing.

I need't remind the likes of yourself I trust, that everything is little more than energy, including the keyboard you tip tap on, the screen you read, the walls of the building you live, youre own organs etc etc - and that this energy itself constitutes little more than about 5% (max) of the energy of the universe as we know it

But How many of Ickes critics even begin to undertand that ?

Its speculative based upon the frequency range within which most peoples pitifully limited 5 sense reality is founded - which is quite literally little to nothing.

How many of Ickes critics even begin to understand that ?

What Im trying to say, is that based upon the above facts, how can anyone in their right mind dismiss what Icke has presented when combined with eye witness accounts of people who quite possibly occasionally do see into the vast tank of energy beyond the average human gaze ?

Ive heard accounts of the same thing myself, and the accounts they gave were told like they were telling me about a visit to Aunt Sheila's. Am I to dismiss these people as nutters ? I should add Ive heard plenty of people tell me stories which I can dismiss with relative comfort - So I do feel as if I know a bullshitter when Ive heard enough of one.

And combined with accounts of folklore, or Shaman such as Mutwa. Or perhaps with the experiences at the Skinwalker ranch ? Or perhaps with a few of my pets - who have frequently barked in serious 'attack mode' at that which to me appeared to be Zero - Then what am I to think ?

And of course there is the metaphorical comparison with reptiles, which can easily be made with the cold blooded, territorial, hoarding, mass murdering psycopaths who have made the world the way it is. Of those comparisons there can be little to Zero doubt.

For those who consistently claim that this is little more than "human nature", then you need to either think more seriously about what you're saying there, or get out more.

Not that such reptilian-type comparisons regarding the monsters in charge prove anything about the 'shapeshifting' phenomena as such, but it sure as hell gives you a good idea of the kind of creatures these people might shapeshift into, were this phenomena actually a proven fact.

Enough already. :?
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Postby Et in Arcadia ego » Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:50 pm

slimmouse wrote:For those who consistently claim that this is little more than "human nature", then you need to either think more seriously about what you're saying there, or get out more.


If things are they way you percieve, why would we want to?

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Postby 8bitagent » Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:13 am

I think Icke is just trying to have a unique angle, but when it comes down to it...aliens, reptillians, etc...I think just in my own take it's all minions of the devil. I think that John Dee, Alice Bailey, Madam Blavatsky, etc are talking about the same things abductees, etc are talking about.

Ley Line Energy lines, crop circles, UFO's...I dont see this evidence of "extraterrestrials", but a battle ground of dark spirtual deception.

But to utter such things is to be labelled a "Christian", and greatly upsets people who want to see such anomalous things as happy little green men from Mars.

Perhaps when abductees speak of hybrid pregnancy, its not so much hallucinations or "government experiments"...but modern day Nephilim crap.
Hopefully it doesnt lead to a massive flood...I know a lot of us have an aversion to being cramped up on a big boat:)

So yeah, I think Alex Jones and David Icke are both trying to expose the same thing...tomatos, to-mah-toes.
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Postby jingofever » Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:41 am

Attack Ships on Fire wrote:The problem that I see with the leaders in conspiracy/paranews alternative theories is that they refuse to question each other. Alex Jones will have David Icke on his show and the two will only talk about the subject matter that they can both agree on. Alex won't broach the subject of reptoids, or that Christianity may be derived from sun god worship. Similarly Icke won't engage Jones in such a debate. It borders on the same selective critique of opposing viewpoints that Icke singles out in his latest newsletter.


Apparently they did disagree with each other on one show; review here. I read somewhere that Jones criticized Icke but never knew they butted heads.
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Postby Attack Ships on Fire » Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:42 am

8bitagent wrote:I think Icke is just trying to have a unique angle, but when it comes down to it...aliens, reptillians, etc...I think just in my own take it's all minions of the devil. I think that John Dee, Alice Bailey, Madam Blavatsky, etc are talking about the same things abductees, etc are talking about.

Ley Line Energy lines, crop circles, UFO's...I dont see this evidence of "extraterrestrials", but a battle ground of dark spirtual deception.


The problem that I have with those who view the UFO or extraterrestrial visitors theory as having its origin with the Devil is that there appears to be no evidence to back it up. It's like saying "God is angry because there is thunder and lightning in the sky"; you're taking something that had (at one time) a lot of mystery and wonder associated with it, as well as fear, and providing an explanation for it that doesn't require proof. God, and his opposite, are supernatural creatures and the majority of people that believe in their existence do not need any proof to continue to believe in them. The UFO phenomena does have circumstantial evidence to it (videos, radar reports, some physical items) that suggest to me that the intelligence behind it isn't supernatural but possessive of advanced technology or a deeper scientific understanding of how to manipulate the rules of reality. I don't see much in favor of the answer lying in the realms of the religious-based supernatural.

8bitagent wrote:But to utter such things is to be labelled a "Christian", and greatly upsets people who want to see such anomalous things as happy little green men from Mars.


Now you're assigning your bias to the people who believe that there is an ET/UT answer behind *some* of the UFO phenomena. I currently believe in this theory and I also don't think for one second that they are little green men from Mars visiting this planet. What makes your belief in the true nature of UFOs any different from the people like me that express their beliefs in an non-terrestrial factor lying behind the UFOs?

Furthermore my own life experience with most people that want to spread the word of North American mainstream Christianity is that they are very close-minded towards any other spiritual viewpoints save their own. To them there is *no* other road to God except through accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior. Additionally I have engaged in debates with Christians that believe dinosaurs were alive within the past 7,000 years and that generally accepted scientific practices like carbon dating to determine rough ages for fossils is 100% invalid. Forgive me if you believe that I am saying that *you* are one of these kinds of Christians, for that is not my intent. Let me be very clear: it is just my experience that these kinds of Christians are not open at all to a critical examination of associated subject matter that they believe falls within the boundaries of their faith. I believe that a person can have faith in any supernatural deity or creation story because faith comes from a inner belief in something that may not be provable; however, I also believe that just because one may have faith in the North American form of Christianity does not excuse one from switching off their brain from examining the world's mysteries and their origins.

I would love to hear more about your reasons for believing in the demonic theory behind UFOs, if you're willing to share either publically or privately in IM.
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Postby theeKultleeder » Sun Sep 02, 2007 11:10 am

As Homer Simpson has said, "Dinosaur, I mean, Jesus Horse!" (In the episode where creationism takes over evolution in the kids' school - a great episode.)
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Postby 8bitagent » Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:40 pm

Attack Ships on Fire wrote:
8bitagent wrote:I think Icke is just trying to have a unique angle, but when it comes down to it...aliens, reptillians, etc...I think just in my own take it's all minions of the devil. I think that John Dee, Alice Bailey, Madam Blavatsky, etc are talking about the same things abductees, etc are talking about.

Ley Line Energy lines, crop circles, UFO's...I dont see this evidence of "extraterrestrials", but a battle ground of dark spirtual deception.


The problem that I have with those who view the UFO or extraterrestrial visitors theory as having its origin with the Devil is that there appears to be no evidence to back it up. It's like saying "God is angry because there is thunder and lightning in the sky"; you're taking something that had (at one time) a lot of mystery and wonder associated with it, as well as fear, and providing an explanation for it that doesn't require proof. God, and his opposite, are supernatural creatures and the majority of people that believe in their existence do not need any proof to continue to believe in them. The UFO phenomena does have circumstantial evidence to it (videos, radar reports, some physical items) that suggest to me that the intelligence behind it isn't supernatural but possessive of advanced technology or a deeper scientific understanding of how to manipulate the rules of reality. I don't see much in favor of the answer lying in the realms of the religious-based supernatural.

8bitagent wrote:But to utter such things is to be labelled a "Christian", and greatly upsets people who want to see such anomalous things as happy little green men from Mars.


Now you're assigning your bias to the people who believe that there is an ET/UT answer behind *some* of the UFO phenomena. I currently believe in this theory and I also don't think for one second that they are little green men from Mars visiting this planet. What makes your belief in the true nature of UFOs any different from the people like me that express their beliefs in an non-terrestrial factor lying behind the UFOs?

Furthermore my own life experience with most people that want to spread the word of North American mainstream Christianity is that they are very close-minded towards any other spiritual viewpoints save their own. To them there is *no* other road to God except through accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior. Additionally I have engaged in debates with Christians that believe dinosaurs were alive within the past 7,000 years and that generally accepted scientific practices like carbon dating to determine rough ages for fossils is 100% invalid. Forgive me if you believe that I am saying that *you* are one of these kinds of Christians, for that is not my intent. Let me be very clear: it is just my experience that these kinds of Christians are not open at all to a critical examination of associated subject matter that they believe falls within the boundaries of their faith. I believe that a person can have faith in any supernatural deity or creation story because faith comes from a inner belief in something that may not be provable; however, I also believe that just because one may have faith in the North American form of Christianity does not excuse one from switching off their brain from examining the world's mysteries and their origins.

I would love to hear more about your reasons for believing in the demonic theory behind UFOs, if you're willing to share either publically or privately in IM.


Oh Im no Christian. I'm a great admirer of Buddhism and various other world studies.

To me several things stand out. Why do so many crop circles involve not so much the religious symbols(as that could be said to be aliens way of saying "hey, we recognize everyone") but magical Goetia sigils and very well known occult symbols.

What is the purpose of UFOs? Now Im not saying they aren't "nuts and bolts"...I know Jeff it seems leans toward some sort of Devlish answer perhaps, but I find a few things curious.

Notably the time of when the modern flying saucer phenomenon started in America. The accounts of abductees.

Jeff wrote a great article on how the accounts of a lot of abductees of "greys" and "dwarves" seems very similar to some Masonic or even "Satanic" ceremonies.

Regardless, I'm very skeptical of this new agey stuff that's spawned from so much of the UFO crowd. Not because Im a Christian and see anything other than "Christ's salvation" as wicked, but because it seems very much like another kind of orthodoxy dogma.

The case of the "Nine", if it is to be believed seems to match with accounts of Crowley and Hitler and their own "greys".

Non human intelligence out of Tibet filtered through Qabbalist and Egyptology parables, yet seeming highly racist with more of the same Aryan mumbo jumbo.

There is a curious story of a sqaudron of UFOs seemingly jamming the frequencies of Russia and US, allegedly stopping nuclear attack.

As well as the US army firing up at UFOS for a few hours in Los Angeles
in 1942.

Me personally I dont see much evidence for physical intelligent life out there...again these to me would seem inter dimentional on a spiritual plane manifesting as physical, then inter galactic.
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Postby theeKultleeder » Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:52 pm

8bitagent wrote:Non human intelligence out of Tibet filtered through Qabbalist and Egyptology parables, yet seeming highly racist with more of the same Aryan mumbo jumbo.


I have never come across this "mumbo jumbo" from Tibet. People always mention it, and as far as I can tell it's a confabulation of Blavatsky's imagination and anthropology from an era where anything not Christian and white is by definition evil and/or inferior. Since that time a great number of highly dedicated practitioners have sat at the feet of Teachers for decades before they began translations and commentaries on the Tibetan Cannon.

Crowley, for example, has exactly zero understanding of Tibetan Buddhism (Vajrayana or Buddha-Tantra), he hardly mentions it, but he had a good working knowledge of the Pali Cannon and Hindu traditions of yoga and so forth.

I've never really seen a racist Qaballa, or an "Egyptology parable." This theory of yours does sound like something a Christian disinformationist would tell people to scare them away from authentic wisdom.

Like the official Catholic line on Zen still taught to people as infallible truth: that it's nihilistic. It's either an outright lie or a complete and idiotic lack of understanding.
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Christian nonsense

Postby Doodad » Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:19 pm

Personally, it's all horseshit as far as I'm concerned born from the primordial fears and need to explain them away; to fill in the blanks-something our brains are wired to do.

Christianity as it is presented nowadays is about as far away from the original thinking as possible and it certainly is not monotheistic given its propensity to elevate the devil, a mostly literary invention forged from pagan roots into an actual ADVERSARY of God. A real monotheistic God would have no adversary. Adversaries are something humans and their tribes have. ( as well, I suppose as tasty animals, those with warm pretty fur and those who are pests.)

Dualism will of course foster dualism in its thinking about things so it can't help but result in us against them and smart versus stupid dichotomies. And look around. How many instances do you see of posters here who feel they are on the side of the angels; good as opposed to evil? Even secularists and atheists succumb to the urge and develop complex plans and rationales to try and bolster their own tribe in an effort that is essentially for all such aspirants akin to herding cats. Cats seem to like bright shiny objects and novel things so a "miracle," or two will help, as will unusual apparitions.

Since they are all herding cats, why would any one group not be interested in making sure they have their share of cat luring strangeness?
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Postby 8bitagent » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:04 pm

theeKultleeder wrote:
8bitagent wrote:Non human intelligence out of Tibet filtered through Qabbalist and Egyptology parables, yet seeming highly racist with more of the same Aryan mumbo jumbo.


I have never come across this "mumbo jumbo" from Tibet. People always mention it, and as far as I can tell it's a confabulation of Blavatsky's imagination and anthropology from an era where anything not Christian and white is by definition evil and/or inferior. Since that time a great number of highly dedicated practitioners have sat at the feet of Teachers for decades before they began translations and commentaries on the Tibetan Cannon.

Crowley, for example, has exactly zero understanding of Tibetan Buddhism (Vajrayana or Buddha-Tantra), he hardly mentions it, but he had a good working knowledge of the Pali Cannon and Hindu traditions of yoga and so forth.

I've never really seen a racist Qaballa, or an "Egyptology parable." This theory of yours does sound like something a Christian disinformationist would tell people to scare them away from authentic wisdom.

Like the official Catholic line on Zen still taught to people as infallible truth: that it's nihilistic. It's either an outright lie or a complete and idiotic lack of understanding.


Whoah dude, I absolutely LOVE Tibetan spirituality, Buddhism, and many aspects of Hebrew beliefs.

However, I was merely pointing out Blavatsky, Alice Bailey and the Nazi's keen interest in Tibet

Really good, tho mainstream article, on why the Nazis loved both Tibetan beliefs and occultic theosophy/Teutonic/etc beliefs...and why they were utterly obsessed with Tibet
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsi ... myths.html

Also here

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... tibet.html

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=18654

Here's the root of Nazi Aryanism, which comes from Indian/Asian spirituality...tho perverted through Satanic occultism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race#Theosophy


I don't kind anything racist about Qabbalistic occultism or the Kabballah.
Or anything based on the Talmud.

I was saying that going by accounts, that "non human intelligence" if it exists, seems to have a very racist bent and may possibly be where people think of Nordic supermen.

I loathe most of post Constantine Christianity, as it seems like an intentional way to coopt and poison original Christ teaching and create wedge issues.

Again, this is the thing...nothing is black and white. A pentagram isnt "bad", but in the context of the White House and Pentagon I feel it is.
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Re: Christian nonsense

Postby theeKultleeder » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:10 pm

Doodad wrote:Personally, it's all horseshit as far as I'm concerned born from the primordial fears and need to explain them away; to fill in the blanks-something our brains are wired to do.

Dualism will of course foster dualism in its thinking about things so it can't help but result in us against them and smart versus stupid dichotomies. And look around. How many instances do you see of posters here who feel they are on the side of the angels; good as opposed to evil? Even secularists and atheists succumb to the urge and develop complex plans and rationales to try and bolster their own tribe in an effort that is essentially for all such aspirants akin to herding cats. Cats seem to like bright shiny objects and novel things so a "miracle," or two will help, as will unusual apparitions.

Since they are all herding cats, why would any one group not be interested in making sure they have their share of cat luring strangeness?


There is dualism and there is non-dualism, which is certainly not reductionism.

Look here for my reply to your position. Don't do yourself a disservice by putting yourself on the horseshit side of a materialist<-->every-other-possibility dichotomy.
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Postby theeKultleeder » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:26 pm

8bitagent wrote:
theeKultleeder wrote:
8bitagent wrote:Non human intelligence out of Tibet filtered through Qabbalist and Egyptology parables, yet seeming highly racist with more of the same Aryan mumbo jumbo.


I have never come across this "mumbo jumbo" from Tibet. People always mention it, and as far as I can tell it's a confabulation of Blavatsky's imagination and anthropology from an era where anything not Christian and white is by definition evil and/or inferior. Since that time a great number of highly dedicated practitioners have sat at the feet of Teachers for decades before they began translations and commentaries on the Tibetan Cannon.

Crowley, for example, has exactly zero understanding of Tibetan Buddhism (Vajrayana or Buddha-Tantra), he hardly mentions it, but he had a good working knowledge of the Pali Cannon and Hindu traditions of yoga and so forth.

I've never really seen a racist Qaballa, or an "Egyptology parable." This theory of yours does sound like something a Christian disinformationist would tell people to scare them away from authentic wisdom.

Like the official Catholic line on Zen still taught to people as infallible truth: that it's nihilistic. It's either an outright lie or a complete and idiotic lack of understanding.


Whoah dude, I absolutely LOVE Tibetan spirituality, Buddhism, and many aspects of Hebrew beliefs.

However, I was merely pointing out Blavatsky, Alice Bailey and the Nazi's keen interest in Tibet

Really good, tho mainstream article, on why the Nazis loved both Tibetan beliefs and occultic theosophy/Teutonic/etc beliefs...and why they were utterly obsessed with Tibet
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsi ... myths.html

Also here

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/ar ... tibet.html

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=18654

Here's the root of Nazi Aryanism, which comes from Indian/Asian spirituality...tho perverted through Satanic occultism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race#Theosophy


I don't kind anything racist about Qabbalistic occultism or the Kabballah.
Or anything based on the Talmud.

I was saying that going by accounts, that "non human intelligence" if it exists, seems to have a very racist bent and may possibly be where people think of Nordic supermen.

I loathe most of post Constantine Christianity, as it seems like an intentional way to coopt and poison original Christ teaching and create wedge issues.

Again, this is the thing...nothing is black and white. A pentagram isnt "bad", but in the context of the White House and Pentagon I feel it is.


Your citations say nothing about Nazi love for Tibetan beliefs - surely the warrior tribes of Tibet, related to the Mongols, who were civilized by the importation of authentic Indian Buddhism at the height of Buddhist scholarship and development in India, who then "demilitarized" their nation (Thurman), are no where near being any kind of Aryan supermen, or of ever thinking of themselves that way.

As a matter of fact, your sources say exactly what I implied above - the Nazi ideas about Tibet were nothing more than Theosophical fantasy.

I've read the Trimondi book, and it is okay but has some serious misrepresentations in it.

BTW, your links are old, except Wikipedia:

This alleged civilization declined when other parts of the world were colonized after the 8,000 BC destruction of Atlantis because the inferior races mixed with the "Aryans" but it left traces of their civilization in Tibet (via Buddhism), and even in Central America, South America, and Ancient Egypt.
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Re: Christian nonsense

Postby Doodad » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:31 pm

theeKultleeder wrote:
Doodad wrote:Personally, it's all horseshit as far as I'm concerned born from the primordial fears and need to explain them away; to fill in the blanks-something our brains are wired to do.

Dualism will of course foster dualism in its thinking about things so it can't help but result in us against them and smart versus stupid dichotomies. And look around. How many instances do you see of posters here who feel they are on the side of the angels; good as opposed to evil? Even secularists and atheists succumb to the urge and develop complex plans and rationales to try and bolster their own tribe in an effort that is essentially for all such aspirants akin to herding cats. Cats seem to like bright shiny objects and novel things so a "miracle," or two will help, as will unusual apparitions.

Since they are all herding cats, why would any one group not be interested in making sure they have their share of cat luring strangeness?


There is dualism and there is non-dualism, which is certainly not reductionism.

Look here for my reply to your position. Don't do yourself a disservice by putting yourself on the horseshit side of a materialist<-->every-other-possibility dichotomy.


Thanks for the link,interesting stuff. As for horseshit, there can be no denying that at base, it is exactly the same as everything else with a different arrangement as it were. It's not good, except for horses, fertilizer and fuel nor bad except for it's smell and lack of enhancement to our footwear. But at times it's simply horseshit.
Doodad
 

Postby 8bitagent » Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:18 pm

theeKultleeder wrote:Your citations say nothing about Nazi love for Tibetan beliefs - surely the warrior tribes of Tibet, related to the Mongols, who were civilized by the importation of authentic Indian Buddhism at the height of Buddhist scholarship and development in India, who then "demilitarized" their nation (Thurman), are no where near being any kind of Aryan supermen, or of ever thinking of themselves that way.

As a matter of fact, your sources say exactly what I implied above - the Nazi ideas about Tibet were nothing more than Theosophical fantasy.

I've read the Trimondi book, and it is okay but has some serious misrepresentations in it.


Thats kind of the point. The Tibetan monks were probably like "who the hell are these clowns?"

The Nazis and their occult mystics bastardized and shaped world mystery beliefs to fit their own garbage. again, the Nazis were so shizophrenic its amazing they got so many to follow...err, had it not been for the intentionally destroyed economy and infrastructure post ww1.
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