Federal Reserve losing control

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Postby ninakat » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:17 pm

March 5 2009: Toxic values and faith based quacks
Ilargi, The Automatic Earth

One in 8 US mortgage holders are in trouble, either delinquent or in foreclosure. The U.S. real estate market lost $2.4 trillion in value last year. In one year. Obama is set to spend $75 billion on a plan that is awfully bad from the outset, if only because it ignores the possibility that prices will deteriorate further, which is the same sort of blind-eyed assumption as the administration basing its budget plans on a 3.2% growth rate for the US economy in 2010. US home prices have much further to fall, and GDP will not grow but shrink in 2010. How can you possible get things right if you deliberately ignore the very real option that, first, the economy will continue to plunge and second, your trillions won‘t stop that from happening? I know, I know, I've explained it a thousand times by now, and it gets repetitive, but it also gets crazier as time rolls along.

American domestic real estate "values" (by now I use the term in a purely poetic sense) will fall at the very least another 25%, and I honestly can't see anything out there that would halt the fall at that level. Moreover, all the bail-out and rescue money spent so far has landed in a blazing black hole, and you would need to spend the entire wealth of the nation before Stephen Hawking's law of information returning from the hole would come into effect. We are simply witnessing the worst possible government policy imaginable, and down here we've been warning about that for a very long time. And I know that it would be valid to ask why I keep on repeating the same thing in the face of the fact that the present power structure can't avoid creating the worst of all worlds, that to save anything at all we will first have to live through the downside not only of the outcome, but also of the cause, which happens to be that very power structure.

Citigroup shares fell below $1 today. anyone want to bet on the chance we’ll get the money back that have been thrown in so far? Think the government will pump in more? That last one I wouldn't dare bet against. Still, Citi is no more. The same goes for General Motors. Much of the media attention today went to the auditor, Deloitte, filing a "going concern" notice on GM. That was not the news, though, we knew that last week. What was is that GM itself for the first time posed questions about its own viability. The company sold 53% less vehicles in the past year, and all the managers know 2009 sales numbers will be much worse than that. Chrysler is as dead as GM, and Ford may or may not hang in there, in a much leaner form than it had today. This will add anywhere between 2 and 3 million lost jobs to the already shocking totals we'll see by Christmas.

I for one wouldn't be surprised if that number would approach 15 or even 20 million. I just can't see any savior on the streets of the country. I do know that the Obama plans will fail. These plans are still geared towards the same unobtainable goals that were in place under previous administrations: saving what exists, and turning a blind eye to what might replace it. The idea that for Joe and Jane to be saved, you first have to ravage their savings in order to save the ruling classes. It's not that I don't understand the train of thought, it's that it's so obviously utterly misguided. In a house that falls to pieces, you don't try to fix the roof first. What is breaking down Citi and GM, and countless other corporations that are following on their heels, GE, Bank of America, Morgan Stanley, Chrysler, is not that the consumer markets don‘t function as they did before, that people spend less money. What is tearing these companies to shreds is the excessive debts and obligations they have loaded on their once-invincible but now aching backs.

They would have ceased to exist even if our modern times of exuberance would have lasted and endured. There is a point where, when you need to grow faster and faster just to meet your payments and other needs, you can't grow enough anymore. That's not just the problem for banks and carmakers, it's the underlying issue for our entire economic system. A constant growth rate will never be sufficient down the line, you need your growth rate itself to grow. Our society depends on exponential growth. And that process stops somewhere. It's the same as the reason why your body stops growing around age 20. If you would grow to be 10 feet tall, your bones would break under your own weight.

There are limits inherent in any and all systems, and ignoring laws of physics doesn't mean they go away. When Glass-Steagall was repealed, and when Larry Summers, Tim Geithner, Phil Gramm and Robert Rubin managed to stop regulation of securities, Wall Street banks in effect obtained permission to grow as in the physical world only malignant tumors do and can. And we all know from observing that physical world that these tumors, if left untreated, will grow until they kill their host. America is the host to General Motors and Citigroup, to Chrysler and Bank of America. Instead of seeking treatment, the country seeks to deny the harmful and lethal effects, or even the very existence, of the cancerous growths in its body politic. And economic.

If we stick to this metaphor, it's not that hard to see where it goes. At some point, you, or we if you will, need to make a choice. You either choose to lose your life, as when you don't seek treatment, or you choose to risk losing your hair and feeling real sick for a time, as when you go in for radiation and chemo-therapy. Our societies as a whole are stuck in denial mode so far. Looking at the Obama, Geithner, Gordon Brown et al responses, all I see is an attitude that says: we don't need treatment, we can beat this by ourselves, on our own.

And while miracles may have happened at times while humans have roamed this earth, it's an insane and irresponsible gamble to take when you are a President or Prime Minister or Treasury Secretary and you hold the welfare and potentially the very lives of millions of people in your hands. That's simply inexcusable. Still, looking at what happens to our economies and the actions, worth trillions of dollars, that are being taken, all I see is continued denial. It's impossible to let GM and Citi go, we can't live without them, that's the prevailing drive.

Well, they're going no matter how fiercely you try to deny it, like so many organs being amputated from your disease-riddled body. Toxic assets cause diseases. It's up to us to decide whether they will finish us off as nations and societies. So far, we have made all the wrong decisions. We couldn't have been more wrong if we had tried. It's time to get a true diagnosis, and stop listening to faith based quacks and tea-leaf healers, to rid ourselves of Geithner and Rubin and Summers and Bernanke. Unless we have a death wish. Do we? Do you? It's time to face that question for real.
User avatar
ninakat
 
Posts: 2904
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:38 pm
Location: "Nothing he's got he really needs."
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby freemason9 » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:19 am

isachar wrote:freemason sez:

"Of course, this may not be your run-of-the-mill fruit picking. This could actually be the Real Deal. In that case, it probably doesn't matter what you do anyway"

That is one of the most foolish, ignorant, and dumbest statements I've ever read on RI. Beats any of the nonsense orz and nomo have ever posted.

It matters very greatly. And if you can't tell by now that this isn't the 'run-of-the-mill' fruit picking you're not terribly observant.


Dang. That was harsh.

Why would it not matter? Because, if it is the Real Deal, I strongly suspect you will see currency devaluation on a grand scale. And, if that happens, it will be done to reset debt; of course, it will also reset investments. You would be looking at a new dollar basis, and existing stores of wealth would be redefined.

If it's the Real Real Deal, dollars will rapidly become absolutely meaningless. That's why current investment decisions MAY be moot.

Americans have long been brainwashed into believing that they can create personal economic security through financial decisions and investments. In economics, though, there are no rules and no ways to assure sound risk management in tumultuous times.

The dollar is illusory, as is every other worldwide currency. The value of the dollar is directly comparable to gold or dirt, depending upon the panic of the populous and the reactions of the aristocracy.

In the harshest of circumstances, in fact, dollar accumulations may become a liability. Think about it.
User avatar
freemason9
 
Posts: 1701
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:07 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby freemason9 » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:26 am

ninakat wrote:
freemason9 wrote:Obama's great gamble is expending great wealth in anticipation of a recovery, and subsequently taxing the aristocracy to return wealth to the working class.


Believe that at your own peril. First, you have to believe that Obama is a representative of the people, not the aristocracy. Second, you have to believe that Obama expects a real recovery (i.e. that he doesn't have a clue about where the economy is actually heading -- that'll be "the incompetence theory" after the SHTF). Third, you have to believe that he's actually planning on taking from the rich and giving to the poor, not just giving the idea lip service.

That's an awful lot of blind faith, none of it based in fact.


Why believe otherwise? Pessimism is wallowing in self loathing and defeat. I choose to believe that Obama is a real square fellow, and that he is as he presents himself . . . dedicated, intelligent, concerned, introspective, and capable. He is also a politician of the Chicago school, so he knows his way around in a fight. I like that.

I'm sure he knows the risks of his plan . . . but it is the only plan he can enact, given the structure of Congress and the pettiness of the media. It's his best shot.

First, he may not expect a real recovery, but it would be foolish to act in any other way. No recovery, no sense in doing anything at all. Right?

And, speaking of "blind faith not based upon fact," are you not operating from the same platform, but even more so? You are, perhaps, to enmeshed in pessimism; are you one that longs for catastrophe so that everyone can share in your misery?
User avatar
freemason9
 
Posts: 1701
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:07 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:49 am

.

Re: Denninger, since we're on a new page, I'll quote the full thing.

ninakat wrote:Karl Denninger with some serious doom (is he correct? -- I don't follow him):

What's Dead (Short Answer: All Of It)
March 5, 2009

Just so you have a short list of what's at stake if Washington DC doesn't change policy here and now (which means before the collapse in equities comes, which could start as soon as today, if the indicators I watch have any validity at all. For what its worth, those indicators are painting a picture of the Apocalypse that I simply can't believe, and they're showing it as an imminent event - like perhaps today imminent.)

► All pension funds, private and public, are done. If you are receiving one, you won't be. If you think you will in the future, you won't be. PBGC will fail as well. Pension funds will be forced to start eating their "seed corn" within the next 12 months and once that begins there is no way to recover.
► All annuities will be defaulted to the state insurance protection (if any) on them. The state insurance funds will be bankrupted and unable to be replenished. Essentially, all annuities are toast. Expect zero, be ecstatic if you do better. All insurance companies with material exposure to these obligations will go bankrupt, without exception. Some of these firms are dangerously close to this happening right here and now; the rest will die within the next 6-12 months. If you have other insured interests with these firms, be prepared to pay a LOT more with a new company that can't earn anything off investments, and if you have a claim in process at the time it happens, it won't get paid. The probability of you getting "boned" on any transaction with an insurance company is extremely high - I rate this risk in excess of 90%.
► The FDIC will be unable to cover bank failure obligations. They will attempt to do more of what they're doing now (raising insurance rates and doing special assessments) but will fail; the current path has no chance of success. Congress will backstop them (because they must lest shotguns come out) with disastrous results. In short, FDIC backstops will take precedence even over Social Security and Medicare.
► Government debt costs will ramp. This warning has already been issued and is being ignored by President Obama. When (not if) it happens debt-based Federal Funding will disappear. This leads to....
► Tax receipts are cratering and will continue to. I expect total tax receipts to fall to under $1 trillion within the next 12 months. Combined with the impossibility of continued debt issue (rollover will only remain possible at the short duration Treasury has committed to over the last ten years if they cease new issue) a 66% cut in the Federal Budget will become necessary. This will require a complete repudiation of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, a 50% cut in the military budget and a 50% across-the-board cut in all other federal programs. That will likely get close.
► Tax-deferred accounts will be seized to fund rollovers of Treasury debt at essentially zero coupon (interest). If you have a 401k, or what's left of it, or an IRA, consider it locked up in Treasuries; it's not yours any more. Count on this happening - it is essentially a certainty.
► Any firm with debt outstanding is currently presumed dead as the street presumption is that they have lied in some way. Expect at least 20% of the S&P 500 to fail within 12 months as a consequence of the complete and total lockup of all credit markets which The Fed will be unable to unlock or backstop. This will in turn lead to....
► The unemployed will have 5-10 million in direct layoffs added within the next 12 months. Collateral damage (suppliers, customers, etc) will add at least another 5-10 million workers to that, perhaps double that many. U-3 (official unemployment rate) will go beyond 15%, U-6 (broad form) will reach 30%.
► Civil unrest will break out before the end of the year. The Military and Guard will be called up to try to stop it. They won't be able to. Big cities are at risk of becoming a free-fire death zone. If you live in one, figure out how you can get out and live somewhere else if you detect signs that yours is starting to go "feral"; witness New Orleans after Katrina for how fast, and how bad, it can get.

The good news is that this process will clear The Bezzle out of the system.

The bad news is that you won't have a job, pension, annuity, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and, quite possibly, your life.

It really is that bleak folks, and it all goes back to Washington DC being unwilling to lock up the crooks, putting the market in the role it has always played - that of truth-finder, no matter how destructive that process is.

Only immediate action from Washington DC, taking the market's place, can stop this, and as I get ready to hit "send" I see the market rolling over again, now down more than 3% and flashing "crash imminent" warnings. You may be reading this too late for it to matter.

In 3 minutes, what's coming.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGWMs5cdQ2k


First of all, I agree with his essential point: lock up the criminals and sweep all of the present institutions clean.

Otherwise, I don't buy the Mad Max stuff. A lot of what he says in all but the last bullet point will happen, and so what? It will not yet have the final consequence he draws in the last bullet point, i.e., of total state failure and cities as "free-fire death zones." (Reading that really makes me want to say to him: fuck your faux-rural ass! Sounds to me a bit like the dicks who claimed to be impressed at how New Yorkers were not yet eating each other on the evening of Sept. 11, 2001.)

Even a total financial crash is not going to lead directly to the Mad Max scenario. Quite the contrary, I can see it inspiring a necessary education about socialism (in the best sense) over the course of the next five years. That's longer than a college education -- can Americans still transform?

Mad Max scenarios come about because of irreversible physical failures: oil runs out, water and atmosphere turn into enemies, nukes fly, next-stage terror attacks activate dictatorship plans. That kind of thing. I rule out nothing, but I don't see any of that as a necessary consequence of a friggin' well-deserved, utterly predictable financial crash and depression of the kind that hits capitalism two or three times a century, minimum.

In the meantime, there's the printing press. If FDIC can't cover accounts, you can be certain the money required will be printed. Same for Treasury notes; hyperinflation may come as a result, but that's actually a solution for the debt burden. (Germany's hyperfinflation was solved literally overnight, and it wasn't the cause of the Nazis; it was the beginning of the Weimar period's good years!)

The state enjoys more legitimacy than Denninger seems to imagine. Long as there's food and fuel, people will figure out how to deal. A mere debt meltdown no matter how complete (and truth to tell I long for the complete version) does not mean the end of society within months, as he suggests. Not if EMP bombs don't blow out the media. Now again, that's assuming none of the other scenarios (germs, nukes, large-scale crop failures, living hurricanes with brains, Godzilla, asteroids, etc.) is activated.

Barring that kind of real disaster, I personally would like to see the experiment run on Americans, and the rest of the rich world (which includes most of the "North"): what if they wake up tomorrow and their dollars mean nothing? Are they still alive? Can they still figure shit out?

Me?!

.
User avatar
JackRiddler
 
Posts: 16007
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:59 pm
Location: New York City
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby vigilant » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:21 am

I will never understand how humanity has been duped into believing that gold is valuable. It is but one end of a seesaw that is run in opposition to currency valuations, and now many other tiers of the multi seat seesaw because of the stock markets and electronic capability.

In times true trouble you cannot eat gold, buy you could boil your paper money into a cellulose stew and eat that. Gold is valuable because people tell us it is and for no other reason. It may be very valuable for the people that fix the prices and control it, but to the person living at street level, during a crisis, you couldn't give it away in exchange for clothes, food, or shelter.

The see saw is rigged for us to buy it at a high price, and damn guaranteed to have to sell it at a lower price which clipped a lot of our valuable survival cash from us in times of trouble. Its a shame people don't understand how this works but they don't. In times of trouble it would make a good anchor to hold eggs down in the creek to keep them cool, but hell you can use rocks for that.

I'm not sure what the composition of gold really is, but I feel pretty sure the stamps on gold assuring its quality don't mean squat. In many cases there is enough gold in it to keep its color, but many things can be added for that purpose too. Same with precious stones, these days many are synthetic. We never get these things tested most of the time, so we are our own willing suckers.

Quality means nothing anyway when its useless for anything other than slingshot fodder in a crisis. You could indeed knock a head off with some gold and a sling shot, if you were defending yourself against an armed invader after all your food.
The whole world is a stage...will somebody turn the lights on please?....I have to go bang my head against the wall for a while and assimilate....
vigilant
 
Posts: 2210
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:53 pm
Location: Back stage...
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby vigilant » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:30 am

JackRiddler wrote:.

Re: Bloomberg v. Federal Reserve.

A very important case. A verdict for Bloomberg might be the moment when the "Federal Reserve loses control." As with the spook complex, their power derives from secrecy. If the books are thrown open, they become a branch of the government.

.



I agree with with your analysis Jack.

My idea on this though is that it is a Red Herring. The best way to validate something is to put it on mock trial with a friend, and have yourself found innocent. Nobody is more powerful than the Fed., which is a "sole" of the Queen, whom owns our corporation, that control the "domain" (grab the bull by the horns symbol" used in graphing to symbolize a "domain" on a checkered graphing plot......its a real "Ceer, or CR" if ya know what I mean. Bloomberg is allowed to survive as a function of power, (see the "fix is in" as in "F(X)" F is a function of X, and not in spite of it, particularly when you write about "flow" of "currency"....

I think this is a mock trial, what else could it be?
The whole world is a stage...will somebody turn the lights on please?....I have to go bang my head against the wall for a while and assimilate....
vigilant
 
Posts: 2210
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:53 pm
Location: Back stage...
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby barracuda » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:48 am

It's good to see some other posters taking on freemason9. I love your attitude, man, even if I disagree with your conclusions.

Regarding Denninger's Apocalypse, I have to say it has been interesting watching his opinion of our chances morph throughout the genesis of this crash. I started reading his site over two years ago, when he was still a dyed in the wool republican and just starting to get bearish. In fact he created the site as a response to what he saw as illegal actions on the part of the Fed and Treasury, and his mood has deteriorated greatly since. His anger was such that he voted Democratic for the first time in his life, for Obama. Now he sees what many of us see, that Obama is continuing the dead-end policies of the Paulson Treasury, and allowing the blatant lies of Wall Street to put people out of work and the country at risk when it all would have been so easy to fix.

I hate to speak for him; this is just my interpretation, but I think a great deal of his angst is based on his belief in the market and his vision that it would have been relatively simple to forstall this debacle. His point has always been that only truth in public policy and above-board market operations (meaning: allowing badly run companies to fail; paying for your business mistakes yourself; transparency of the CDS and other securitized instruments within a publicly traded exchange; no fake off-balance sheet accounting, etc.) could stop the crash. In essence, he has been an advocate for the truth over the lies, and has believed all along that the lies will destroy us. And as his predictions have come true, one after another, there has been no response to his protestations, no rallying by the 401k holders, no marches on Washington, nothing. He is appalled at the sheer apathy, and rightly, I think, hopes that among the repurcussions of the crash will be intense societal change. We differ, perhaps, on opinions of what kind of change may come, but it's coming.

Full disclosure: reading his site saved me a buttload of money. Now let's see if it'll be worth anything.
The most dangerous traps are the ones you set for yourself. - Phillip Marlowe
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby vigilant » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:14 am

barracuda wrote:

no rallying by the 401k holders, no marches on Washington, nothing. He is appalled at the sheer apathy, and rightly, I think, hopes that among the repurcussions of the crash will be intense societal change.


Yep...sadly it is true. Americans have no ourtrage because it has been 77 years since they have been screwed. Most of the people that woke up one day with nothing to eat and no money are dead, and the replacement generation has no real experience of the past scenario. People will not outrage until it is too late, and it is too late on any give day that the "money masters" decide to pull the plug, because they are the plug. The 401K system has already been looted by the fact that about two trillion dollars in its value have disappeared, but people don't know it yet because they have not tried to withdraw it.

The constant noise of economic calamity, with no immediately ovserveable results, have desentisized people. It is just noise and means nothing to people.

On the drawing boards, (F is a function of X, f(x), fix is in", there is a plan to "protect" 401k accounts because they are too easily cashed out. They are indeed being protected, but for the assholes that seek to steal it, and not for the people that worked for it. The scam of forcing people to leave it in until old age is nothing more than a scam. It loads the wagon, and makes it full, so that people like thise pirates can come steal it.

Think about this. The largest geriatric population we have seen in centuries of memory just had their "baby boomer" savings ripped off. What a haul huh? What a lynching that is.

It is how the game is lost and won, every time. Load the barrel, roll it aways in secrecy, and off the equity goes, into the....moonset.
The whole world is a stage...will somebody turn the lights on please?....I have to go bang my head against the wall for a while and assimilate....
vigilant
 
Posts: 2210
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:53 pm
Location: Back stage...
Blog: View Blog (0)

Clarification

Postby slow_dazzle » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:23 am

I note Jack R's comments regarding a Mad Max scenario as unlikely. I agree and I'm posting to clarify my thoughts on how the collapse (it IS a collapse) might impact upon the social fabric.

I am now pretty much convinced that we are past the point of economic recovery. As evidence for that one only has to spend time reading the financial news in its various forms, look at the IEA figures for November and fish out a chart of Saudi oil production. The economic tipping point seems to have been reached; yesterday's announcement of quantitative easing by the Bank of England was accompanied by statements such as "we are entering uncharted waters", "we are not sure if it will work but we are confident that it will". This is a stark admission of running out of options and not knowing what else to do as the economy fails to respond to conventional resuscitation techniques.

Society will not just disintegrate though, nor will there be zombie hordes running amok. If it gets that bad, the limitations of supply will limit the duration of serious unrest. The Mad Max scenario assumes access to fully functioning transport, the fuel and parts required to run it and access to food and clean water. In a total collapse scenario these items would not be readily nor regularly available. In a total collapse scenario, a zombie horde would soon be reduced to a starving, foot slogging and disease ridden rump.

What is more likely is a differently ordered society, one that behaves differently in how people relate to one another. People might even find a sense of community once everyone realises we need a community, as jobs disappear and the focus of life changes from acquisition of material wealth towards filling the supply gap for essentials such as food. People who are not working will be staying close to home for most of the time. Attention will probably turn to thoughts of what to do to make life bearable once income dries up and problems arise that have to be dealt with in new ways. I don't know for sure if it will play out this way. I'm hopeful it will although there might be some short term unrest once people vent anger once they realise there is no likelihood of a return to BAU.

Just wanted to clarify that I don't subscribe to the zombie horde after the collapse mentality.
On behalf of the future, I ask you of the past to leave us alone. You are not welcome among us. You have no sovereignty where we gather.

John Perry Barlow - A Declaration of the Independence of Cyberspace
slow_dazzle
 
Posts: 1132
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:19 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby isachar » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:09 am

freemason9 wrote:
isachar wrote:freemason sez:

"Of course, this may not be your run-of-the-mill fruit picking. This could actually be the Real Deal. In that case, it probably doesn't matter what you do anyway"

That is one of the most foolish, ignorant, and dumbest statements I've ever read on RI. Beats any of the nonsense orz and nomo have ever posted.

It matters very greatly. And if you can't tell by now that this isn't the 'run-of-the-mill' fruit picking you're not terribly observant.


Dang. That was harsh.

Why would it not matter? Because, if it is the Real Deal, I strongly suspect you will see currency devaluation on a grand scale. And, if that happens, it will be done to reset debt; of course, it will also reset investments. You would be looking at a new dollar basis, and existing stores of wealth would be redefined.

If it's the Real Real Deal, dollars will rapidly become absolutely meaningless. That's why current investment decisions MAY be moot.

Americans have long been brainwashed into believing that they can create personal economic security through financial decisions and investments. In economics, though, there are no rules and no ways to assure sound risk management in tumultuous times.

The dollar is illusory, as is every other worldwide currency. The value of the dollar is directly comparable to gold or dirt, depending upon the panic of the populous and the reactions of the aristocracy.

In the harshest of circumstances, in fact, dollar accumulations may become a liability. Think about it.


FM9, sorry for the harsh tone, but like the Zen Master sez, sometimes a slap upside the head generates far more enlightenment than years of studying the Sutras.

Anyway, you've presumed that the only course of action for an individual is to accumulate dollars, which is not correct.

Few will be unscathed, but some will come out better than others and those are the folks who begin making the right decisions now. Doing nothing because 'it doesn't matter what you do anyway' is not the right decision.

Hope you aren't foolish enough to follow your own advice.
"The simplest evidence is the most unbearable." - Brentos 7/3/08
isachar
 
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:23 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby freemason9 » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:37 pm

isachar wrote:
freemason9 wrote:
isachar wrote:freemason sez:

"Of course, this may not be your run-of-the-mill fruit picking. This could actually be the Real Deal. In that case, it probably doesn't matter what you do anyway"

That is one of the most foolish, ignorant, and dumbest statements I've ever read on RI. Beats any of the nonsense orz and nomo have ever posted.

It matters very greatly. And if you can't tell by now that this isn't the 'run-of-the-mill' fruit picking you're not terribly observant.


Dang. That was harsh.

Why would it not matter? Because, if it is the Real Deal, I strongly suspect you will see currency devaluation on a grand scale. And, if that happens, it will be done to reset debt; of course, it will also reset investments. You would be looking at a new dollar basis, and existing stores of wealth would be redefined.

If it's the Real Real Deal, dollars will rapidly become absolutely meaningless. That's why current investment decisions MAY be moot.

Americans have long been brainwashed into believing that they can create personal economic security through financial decisions and investments. In economics, though, there are no rules and no ways to assure sound risk management in tumultuous times.

The dollar is illusory, as is every other worldwide currency. The value of the dollar is directly comparable to gold or dirt, depending upon the panic of the populous and the reactions of the aristocracy.

In the harshest of circumstances, in fact, dollar accumulations may become a liability. Think about it.


FM9, sorry for the harsh tone, but like the Zen Master sez, sometimes a slap upside the head generates far more enlightenment than years of studying the Sutras.

Anyway, you've presumed that the only course of action for an individual is to accumulate dollars, which is not correct.

Few will be unscathed, but some will come out better than others and those are the folks who begin making the right decisions now. Doing nothing because 'it doesn't matter what you do anyway' is not the right decision.

Hope you aren't foolish enough to follow your own advice.


Well, Isachar, I didn't mean to infer that one "should do nothing" in a global sense. I was referring to retirement accounts specifically; and I was simply saying that cashing out now is both too late and too soon, if that makes any sense. Cash out now, you lose a bunch, because it's too late to do that. It's also too soon, because you lose any opportunity to reclaim the cash if the market rebounds.

but all that was only regarding investments.

I'm more fortunate than most, because I live in a rural community. We know one another here, and although it isn't the most liberal place in the world, these are kind souls for the most part. I have no problem with racism at all, even though it is about 97% white. Minority families that move here are strangers at first, and then they become part of the community as our children become friends in school and as we interact on a daily basis.

Rural communities rock.

And that might be why I'm more optimistic than most, because I see a lot of good in people. My family's terrific, I love my wife madly (and often!), and I can talk as a friend to a hundred other folks here.

I do have high hope for the future of our nation. Even after everything else, I see good things coming.

On edit: Did the Zen master really say that? Huh.
User avatar
freemason9
 
Posts: 1701
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:07 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby vigilant » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:45 pm

I note Jack R's comments regarding a Mad Max scenario as unlikely. I agree and I'm posting to clarify my thoughts on how the collapse (it IS a collapse) might impact upon the social fabric.


Yes true, and one mans collapse is another mans rise, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. One mans junk is another mans treasure. One mans pain is another mans gain 'if' the correct boolean operators are in place...

"BOO"
The whole world is a stage...will somebody turn the lights on please?....I have to go bang my head against the wall for a while and assimilate....
vigilant
 
Posts: 2210
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:53 pm
Location: Back stage...
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby ninakat » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:13 am

One Man's Poison
by Rupert Hine

One man's nightmare is another man's dream
One silent person in another man's scheme
One man's will can leave the rest with no control
The boy was always far too young
The man was much too old

One man forgotten gives another one fame
One woman's beauty means another lives in shame
One begs for food while the other counts her diamonds
One is never satisfied
The other blesses you in silence

One man's hatred is another man's faith
One man's poison is another man's cake
One thinks he knows it
But he's never ever tried it
He won't take a bite in public but he'll eat it all in private

One careless error is another man's fate
One man's fall is another one's break
One man's treason is another's escape
One piece of perfect timing
Means another's just too late

One man gets richer from another fool's addiction
One thinks it's fact while the other knows it's fiction
One blaze of final glory lets another die unknown
The one who plants the seed
Will never see the tree full grown

One man's hatred is another man's faith
One man's poison is another man's cake
One thinks he knows it
But he's never ever tried it
He won't take a bite in public but he'll eat it all in private

One man's wisdom means another can see
One proved guilty lets another go fee
One man's Heaven is another man's Hell
To one a mind quite empty
Is more use than one too full

One child of five is already full of lies
One can't create but he's keen to criticise
One man's enemy is someone else's friend
One act of madness brings a journey's sudden end

One man's pleasure is another man's pain
One takes a picture he will never see again
One talks of love but he's grown used to watching violence
One who's lost is much too proud to ask for guidance

One man's hatred is another man's faith
One man's poison is another man's cake
One thinks he knows it
But he's never ever tried it
He won't take a bite in public but he'll eat it all in private
User avatar
ninakat
 
Posts: 2904
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:38 pm
Location: "Nothing he's got he really needs."
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby smiths » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:23 am

The Board of Governors contends that it’s separate from its member banks, including the Federal Reserve Bank of New York which runs the lending programs. Most documents relevant to the Bloomberg suit are at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, which the Fed contends isn’t subject to FOIA law. The Board of Governors has 231 pages of documents, which it is denying access to under an exemption under trade secrets.

http://cryptogon.com/?p=7323
User avatar
smiths
 
Posts: 2205
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 4:18 am
Location: perth, western australia
Blog: View Blog (0)

Postby ninakat » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:38 am

Guns and Butter
"America's Fiscal Collapse - Obama's Budget Will Impoverish America"

"America's Fiscal Collapse - Obama's Budget Will Impoverish America" with economist and author, Michel Chossudovsky. The administration's 2010 budget will entail the most drastic curtailment in public spending in American history, leading to social havoc and the potential impoverishment of millions of people. Defense spending and bank bailouts will consume all government revenue resulting in fiscal collapse that will lead to the privatization of the state.
User avatar
ninakat
 
Posts: 2904
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:38 pm
Location: "Nothing he's got he really needs."
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 159 guests