Fuck Obama

[norton ash]

But getting back to the original question. It was posed because the idea was put forth that it simply doesn't matter what we do, because we are deluded/delusional that Democracy even exist. Voting is basically for suckers. That working hard for social change - within the system- is a waste of time.

I disagreed and posed the question - WHICH CURRENTLY STILL REMAINS UNANSWERED.

The answer is vote Democrat, because they're a little bit better than Republicans. Short of any REAL action from the left-social justice-anti-fascist flank... vote Democrat.

I vote in Canadian elections, although our system stinks.

I'm compromised. I'm employed, mainstream, will accept what measly crumbs of change the Empire might allow, because the revolution isn't coming until things get palpably, horribly bad for the complacent.

So vote Democrat. The difference here in the RI context is that most of us simply won't defend an evil, rotten system and another smiling puppet of the oil/war/theft/lockup machine... as you do.

[Simulist]

Thanks Bruce, Yarnell, Ninakat, and Norton.

Really Simulist ...well done. Stop pretending and don't vote.

THAT IS FUCKING AWESOME!!!!!

Oh, no. If you simply must vote, Cowbell, then please do! Vote twice, if you can. (For all the effect it will have.)

After all, the establishment (with considerable help from all its corporate-personhooded "people") tinkers with elections whenever "we the people" fail to pick the "correct" pre-selected candidate. Why shouldn't real people (with pulses) have the same option of tinkering into office the pre-selected candidate of their "choice"?

But yeah, do stop pretending. ('Cause, you know, it's important.)

[Joe Hillshoist]

Honestly, voting on its own does nothing. All governments are always compromised. But not voting on its own is as pointless as voting. Government onl;y works when citizens hassle the fuck out of it to do what they want.

Why has corporate whoreville done so well out of Oama?

Cos they were the only ones hassling him about how to do his job (cos thats what lobby groups do.) There was a huge opportunity post Nov 08 to get citizens engaged in US politics, only the "right" has taken advantage of this tho, and people wonder why the corporates did so well out of Obama.

If you think its about voting then shutting up and letting your betters make their decisions, which is whats happened with "the left" or the non corporate interests since the election (and thats the sort of message the likes of John Stewart have pushed non stop,) then of course your democracy won't work.

And really there isn't much difference between what you all are saying.

Oh, there are differences: the Republican Party does evil shit, and the Democratic Party (sometimes) protests.

Except when it helps them. Or does more evil shit all on its own.

(Which is a lot.)

So what should we do?

We should stop pretending.

We should stop pretending that any president who covers up for the torturers of children is someone worthy of our support. We should stop pretending that any political party which continues to support unnecessary wars resulting in millions of dead and ruined lives is worthy of our support.

Stop pretending. Until that first step is taken, the next steps of radical non-violent non-cooperation with this evil system will not be taken and, in fact, will not even be recognized as necessary.

Ok what you all should have done was raised hell he moment that first drone attack (on the 20th Jan 2009 iirc) took place, and not shut up since.

The president works for you lot, believe it or not, and this argument is effectively ignoring that.

Doesn't matter how much you dislike Obama, if you are a US citizen you are responsible for him. That includes you Stim. I think people should stop pretending that they aren't responsible for Obama, for Bush, and for everything done in their name. (I'm not talking about govt conspiracies here either, I'm talking about the open stuff done in your name like bombing families in Pakistan with drones.) I understand you are appalled and feel powerless to stop what you object to, and want it stopped yesterday or 9 years ago.

But unless you act it won't, and like it or not thats all there is to it.

The only blame "the American people" can apportion re the failures of Obama is on themselves. If they'd held the "hope and change" bullshit up as a real agreement, and held him to it then things would be different now.

You can cry about how hard it is, or whats stacked against you but thats actually bullshit.

If it means enough you'll find a way (whoever s in government.) or you won't.

In which case you failed.

In which case you learn and go again.



Its all well and good to yell "Fuck Obama" to the wind. That won't actually achieve anything.

If you yelled "Fuck YOU Obama!!! You said this and this and now you are going back on it and we want it." - in the right way, effectively then things would be different. Obviously this didn't happen.

I don't agree with CCs opinions about what happens if the US pulls out of Afpak. I think you are wrong on that CC. Tho I accept I could be wrong. I have spent days arguing with my brother about that recently, I actaully never thought he'd disagree with me about this ... but ... I still disagree with him, but I can understand how he comes to his POV, and maybe its not as wrong as I thought.

(Either way the current policy and execution of policy is fucked at best imo.)

But I do agree with his question and I don't think you answered it Stimulist.

No one is pretending we support those things. Those things are done by power, power is sposed to be answerable to its population.

Make it answerable.

(When you work out how let me know.)

[Cosmic Cowbell]

But I do agree with his question and I don't think you answered it Stimulist.

Thanks Joe, I needed that...

[82_28]

But I do agree with his question and I don't think you answered it Stimulist.

Thanks Joe, I needed that...

I personally didn't need it. I went in search of some kind of a G rated image of porn/stimulist funniness and could only find porn. Mr. anti-porn 82_28 wound up watching a porn clip, which is against his religion. I'm gonna surprise my lady tonight, by not even checking RI for the next 24 hours.

Yeah right.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Hey that was just a case of temporary morning dyslexia brought about by not enough coffee, too many bongs and no pancakes.

Anyway tis all good cos it was stimulating.

Cheers Sim.

[Simulist]

But I do agree with his question and I don't think you answered it Stimulist.

Joe, you are absolutely correct in pointing out that I did not answer Cowbell's every question or point. I will not apologize for this. There is simply a limit to the amount of time that I am willing to invest in responding to an individual who himself has consistently ignored entire rafts of damning evidence contrary to his own opinion, such as has been presented against Mr. Obama and his political party in just this single thread.

As for what might happen should the U.S. "pull out" of the regions mentioned: I don't honestly know — no one honestly knows! The professional liars that got us into these evil and unnecessary wars claimed to know things that either they clearly didn't know or that they lied their asses off about in order to commit our nation (and several others) to those wars. They claim now to know a lot about what will happen if we leave. One of their tactics now is: "But what will happen to the people?"

(As if they cared a single whit about the people of Afghanistan... Or Pakistan... Or Iraq...)

But the people of those countries would like us the hell out of there. They'd like us to leave. And I think we should listen to them, and respect their wishes.

You write with much conviction about how "we" are responsible for Bush and Obama. Joe, I actually agree with you on this. That's why I write what I have here; that's why I have joined in protesting, as I have; that's why I have lobbied my (so-called) "elected representatives" as frequently and as forcefully as I have. And yes, that is why I have "voted" in every election throughout my life — although I'm fairly certain now that this last one hasn't done one DAMNED bit of good, and has only served to reinforce the illusion that there is bona fide freedom and real political choice in America, where there honestly isn't.

It pisses me the hell off that MY NAME is attached to the monstrous evil that is currently being perpetrated in my own country and around the world — and all of it for the sake of the wanton greed and selfishness that has become "America."

I am disgusted by my country. Any person of any real degree of conscience living in the United States — and who knows what we've been up to — would be.

Yes. We need to DEMAND an end to an entire way of life that is malignant not only to the people of America and the world, but also to the earth itself. As you point out, neither "voting" nor "not voting" is going to change much of anything — it will require a commitment of ourselves that NONE of us are prepared for just yet. Not in your country, nor in mine.

We haven't a clue yet what will be required of us, but I adamantly believe that our non-cooperation with this monstrous evil must be non-violent.

If we don't figure out a way to shed our illusions (I sincerely hope that the last illusion is despair), stop pretending, and confront this evil system — and of necessity outside the boundaries of this corrupt system — then I think there may be no future for us, no future for our children, and no future for the countless species that our cancerous way of life is condemning to certain death.

For a moment, Obama represented hope to many people. It's clear to me that Mr. Obama and his followers represent false hope.

If there is to be real hope, it will be created only after false hope is abandoned for good.

[Nordic]

CC, what is your problem? What do we DO about it? We do what we're supposed to do, what the founding fathers of this country set the place up for us to do, and we take our fucking country back. We kick all the bums out, we take some responsibility for a change and we do what we have to do.

But no, everybody in America is so used to being a "consumer" and brainwashed into thinking we have all these "choices" and we have all this power as "consumers" that we instead sit back and are spoonfed what they want us to eat.

And we sit there like children with our mouths clamped shut thinking "I don't want to eat any of this. But Mommy and Daddy tell me I have to eat one of these two things."

Well quit acting like a goddamn baby and take over your government.

The two parties are obviously complicit with each other. Ignore them from now on, never fucking waste a dollar or a vote on them ever again and START OVER.

Start over. There's no other way.

OH MY GOD people scream WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR 2012????? How the fuck would I know? Quit worrying about something that you don't HAVE NOW (thanks, Simulist for the "pretending" theme, because people are pretending they have something that they don't) and just take over.

You're homeless. Build a house.

[Gouda]

Big-name companies to help colleges train workers

By ERIC GORSKI, AP Education Writer Eric Gorski, Ap Education Writer – 42 mins ago

As the White House stages a first-of-its-kind community college summit Tuesday, the Obama administration is proposing that stronger partnerships between two-year public colleges and big-name U.S. employers such as McDonald's and The Gap will help better match workers with jobs during the economic recovery and beyond.

Community college officials welcomed the new initiative, "Skills for America's Future."

But it's unclear whether the project will help meet Obama's education goals. Community colleges are short of cash, jammed with laid-off workers and students who in better times would attend four-year schools and spending heavily on remedial education for students ill-prepared for college.

(...)

In a pilot program for small businesses at LaGuardia Community College supported with money from investment bank Goldman Sachs, Safier said she learned the art of negotiation in an accounting class, mastered Microsoft Excel, met regularly with counselors and fellow business owners and presented a growth plan before graduating.

Community colleges "do need investments in their capacity," said Dina Habib Powell, president of the Goldman Sachs Foundation. What is equally needed, she said, "is those relationships with the private sector, those connections."

(...)

The White House on Monday described "Skills for America's Future" as an industry-led initiative to "dramatically improve" work force training partnerships with community colleges, paid for mostly by the participating companies.

The Gap Inc., for example, said it would expand community college partnerships in seven metro areas, including in-store job shadowing, interview and leadership training, and scholarships. The San Francisco-based company said it expects to hire up to 1,200 community college students in 2011, or five percent of its annual hiring.

Other participating employers are Accenture, McDonald's, United Technologies and P.G.&E.

Maureen Conway, executive director of the economic opportunities program at the Aspen Institute, a Washington-based nonprofit that will run the program, said navigating the system for matching training to jobs can be difficult for both students and small employers, and some larger companies have not worked with colleges.

"What's wrong is, students come in and are falling through the cracks a bit and it's not always clear what the right path is," she said. "Courses aren't always clearly connected to what's going on in the local labor market."

George Boggs, outgoing president of the American Association of Community Colleges, said Monday he welcomes the attention, but warned that colleges are under pressure on many fronts.

"It's a very difficult time for them and hard to focus on things such as reaching out to local business and industry," Boggs said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101005/ap_ ... y_colleges

[mentalgongfu2]

"What's wrong is, students come in and are falling through the cracks a bit and it's not always clear what the right path is," she said. "Courses aren't always clearly connected to what's going on in the local labor market."

American Education - Preparing the next generation to be contented consumerist wage slaves.

[Pele'sDaughter]

So, you'll now be paying $20,000 to learn how to run a register at Gap or Mickey D? The corporatization of education for the new American job market.

[Pele'sDaughter]

A really horrifying thought is that a jr college "degree" will be required in the future even to run a register at Gap or Mickey D.

[Simulist]

A really horrifying thought is that a jr college "degree" will be required in the future even to run a register at Gap or Mickey D.

But how else can America remain "proud" of having such a highly educated population of slaves?

[Twyla LaSarc]

A really horrifying thought is that a jr college "degree" will be required in the future even to run a register at Gap or Mickey D.

Hell, it's happened in other service fields for years now. I find it scary that an education I picked up for free twenty five years ago just by working at my trade is now a $15-$20,000 commodity. And I have to say that in most cases I haven't been terribly impressed by the products of trade school restaurant education. It also pisses me off that I now have to compete for jobs with morons who have a piece of paper but have no talent or love for the work, it's just something their high-school councillor steered them toward; in their mind, they're just going through the motions until they're discovered on 'Iron Chef' and get their own restarurant/series/etc. Many eventually burn out and quit because they discover that it isn't as easy as it looks on TV.

Several years ago I thought I would leave cooking. I began to scour papers looking for things that I had done in the past, things that had gotten me entry-level jobs in other fields before. Not only were those jobs now closed to those who hadn't a 4-year degree, but they often paid signifigantly less than I was making as a line cook.

I really don't know what is going to happen to us as a country when everybody is in debt for thousands of dollars for an education that leads to a ten-dollar-an-hour job.

Thanks Obama, you continue to give me so much hope (not)...

[Montag]

Look at Obama, now that he's given away the store, he's making baby steps to "rally the base". Shameful pandering, from a spineless twerp:

U.S. President Obama on Meeting Bob Dylan: It Was a Real Treat
http://foreign.peacefmonline.com/entert ... /88938.php

Obama agrees to put solar panels on White House
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE69437820101005

p.s. I think the Rolling Stone interview, was for the same purpose as well.