Was Carl Sagan in on it?

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Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby can1exy » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:22 pm

According to Steven Greer he participated in the denial of the reality of extraterrestrial contact.

The words are nevertheless relevant to our times.

Episode 8: Journeys in Space and Time

“ Those worlds in space are as countless as all the grains of sand on all the beaches of the earth. Each of those worlds is as real as ours and every one of them is a succession of incidents, events, occurrences which influence its future. Countless worlds, numberless moments, an immensity of space and time. And our small planet at this moment, here we face a critical branch point in history, what we do with our world, right now, will propagate down through the centuries and powerfully affect the destiny of our descendants, it is well within our power to destroy our civilization and perhaps our species as well. If we capitulate to superstition or greed or stupidity we could plunge our world into a time of darkness deeper than the time between the collapse of classical civilisation and the Italian Renaissance. But we are also capable of using our compassion and our intelligence, our technology and our wealth to make an abundant and meaningful life for every inhabitant of this planet. "

Starting at 6:23 but the whole segment is worth watching.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE9dEAx5Sgw
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby Jeff » Sat Apr 10, 2010 8:31 pm

Perhaps, but if Steven Greer says so, I'm disinclined to believe it.


viewtopic.php?p=112785#p112785
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby Simulist » Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:27 pm

The Saucer Smear article linked to by Jeff in the above referenced thread contains several real gems about Greer.

Here's just one:

Saucer Smear wrote:Greer believes in all sorts of UFO conspiracies, but he is best described by a sentence in the article that states: "Dr. Greer also asserts that he's been for a ride in a flying saucer, can levitate groups of automobiles by meditating, and is in regular communication with the interplanetary tourist crowd." If this is a true statement of some of Greer's beliefs, we hope he never returns to being an emergency-room physician!


Well, like it says later on in the article, "In space, no one can hear you quack."
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:08 am

Sagan was 'in on' being rational and not a spook disinfo spew spigot.

Uh...gosh! "Greer" and automobiles!

Ever heard of...JFK's death limo driver, William Greer?
Typical name-game psyops.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKgreerW.htm
.....
On the 22nd November, 1963, Greer was assigned to drive the presidential car in the motorcade through Dallas. Several witnesses said that Greer stopped the car after the first shot was fired. This included Jean Hill, who was the closest witness to the car when Kennedy was hot: According to Hill "the motorcade came to almost a halt at the time the shots rang out". James Chaney (one of the four Presidential motorcyclists) - stated that the limousine "after the shooting, from the time the first shot rang out, the car stopped completely, pulled to the left and stopped." Mary Woodward, a journalist with the Dallas Morning News wrote: "Instead of speeding up the car, the car came to a halt... after the first shot".

Kenneth O'Donnell (special assistant to Kennedy), who was riding in the motorcade, later wrote: "If the Secret Service men in the front had reacted quicker to the first two shots at the President's car, if the driver had stepped on the gas before instead of after the fatal third shot was fired, would President Kennedy be alive today? He added "Greer had been remorseful all day, feeling that he could have saved President Kennedy's life by swerving the car or speeding suddenly after the first shots."

William Manchester claims that Greer told Jackie Kennedy at Parkland Hospital: "Oh, Mrs. Kennedy, oh my God, oh my God. I didn't mean to do it, I didn't hear, I should have swerved the car, I couldn't help it. Oh, Mrs. Kennedy, as soon as I saw it I swerved. If only I'd seen it in time!"

Senator Ralph Yarborough, who was riding with Lyndon B. Johnson, was highly critical of the actions of Greer: "When the noise of the shot was heard, the motorcade slowed to what seemed to me a complete stop... After the third shot was fired, but only after the third shot was fired, the cavalcade speeded up, gained speed rapidly, and roared away to the Parkland Hospital... The cars all stopped... 'I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but for the protection of future Presidents, they (the Secret Service) should be trained to take off when a shot is fired."

It has been estimated that 59 witnesses and the Zapruder Film indicated that Greer stopped after the first shot was fired. However, when interviewed by the Warren Commission, Greer claimed: "I heard this noise. And I thought that is what it was. And then I heard it again. And I glanced over my shoulder. And I saw Governor Connally like he was starting to fall. Then I realized there was something wrong. I tramped on the accelerator, and at the same time Mr. Kellerman said to me, "Get out of here fast." And I cannot remember even the other shots or noises that was. I cannot quite remember any more. I did not see anything happen behind me any more, because I was occupied with getting away."

Greer also testified that he heard three shots and they all came from behind him. His testimony on Kennedy's head wound did suggest that a conspiracy had taken place. He claimed that when he got to Parkland Hospital he noticed Kennedy's "head was all shot, this whole part was all a matter of blood... it looked like that (his head) was all blown off." This contradicts the pictures of Kennedy's head that were published sometime after his death.

There is evidence that Greer also believed that John F. Kennedy had been a victim of a conspiracy. The daughter of Roy Kellerman, the Secret Agent in Kennedy's car, told Harold Weisberg in the 1970's that "I hope the day will come when these men (Kellerman and Greer) will be able to say what they've told their families".

William Greer died on 23rd February, 1985. His son, Richard Greer, was interviewed in 1991. When asked, "What did your father think of JFK," Richard did not respond the first time. When asked a second time, he responded: "Well, we're Methodists... and JFK was Catholic..."
CIA runs mainstream media since WWII:
news rooms, movies/TV, publishing
...
Disney is CIA for kidz!
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby Simulist » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:51 am

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Sagan was 'in on' being rational and not a spook disinfo spew spigot.

Uh...gosh! "Greer" and automobiles!

Ever heard of...JFK's death limo driver, William Greer?
Typical name-game psyops.

No... More "keyword hijacking" W.O.O.

To use your own picture, Hugh:

Image
"The most strongly enforced of all known taboos is the taboo against knowing who or what you really are behind the mask of your apparently separate, independent, and isolated ego."
    — Alan Watts
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby MinM » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:10 am

Image
Seth MacFarlane Is Producing A Sequel to Carl Sagan’s ‘Cosmos’
11:02 am Saturday Aug 6, 2011 by Emily Temple

Attention science geeks and 80′s TV addicts: Seth MacFarlane, the creator of Family Guy, is teaming up with Carl Sagan’s widow and writer/producer Ann Druyan and colleague Steven Soter to produce a sequel to Carl Sagan’s iconic 13-part TV series Cosmos: A Personal Voyage, which originally ran in 1980. Hosted by prominent astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson, and also projected to come in 13 parts, the sequel, entitled Cosmos: A Space-Time Odyssey, will air on Fox in primetime, which is pretty ballsy for such nerdy, niche material.

“Never more than at this moment in the modern era have we needed a profound reminder of the colossally important and exciting role that science, space exploration and the human quest for knowledge must continue to play in our development as a species,” MacFarlane said. “We should be vigorously exploring the solar system by now, and who better to inspire us to get there than Ann Druyan, Steven Soter, Neil deGrasse Tyson and, of course, Carl Sagan.”

The new series is scheduled to hit the tube in 2013, so until then, better bone up on your Sagan.

http://flavorwire.com/199854/seth-macfa ... ans-cosmos
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby DrVolin » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:03 pm

I love Moseley :)
all these dreams are swept aside
By bloody hands of the hypnotized
Who carry the cross of homicide
And history bears the scars of our civil wars

--Guns and Roses
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby elfismiles » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:35 pm

DrVolin wrote:I love Moseley :)


Yes, I get giddy every time Saucer Smear arrives in my mailbox.

:cheers:
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby DrVolin » Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:02 pm

The semi-this and nearly-that peppered through my writing are shamelessly ripped off from him.
all these dreams are swept aside
By bloody hands of the hypnotized
Who carry the cross of homicide
And history bears the scars of our civil wars

--Guns and Roses
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby StarmanSkye » Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:04 pm

I don't get the many witnesses who claim the JFK motorcade came to a complete or near-complete stop. How does that jive with the Zapruder film which at the most shows driver-Greer braking -- evidenced by the sudden forward-lurch of limo passengers and as reported by left-rear outboard MC Policeman who testified he ran-into a spray of blood-and-tissue spatter. On the Z-film we also see a SS agent from the following car run-up to and clamber-onto the rear-bumper and into the Presidential Limo as it was moving. Could Z-film photo-manipulation have included disguising the limo's coming to a complete stop, as well as the possible/probable changing film-frame sequence to obscure compelling evidence of a right-front fatal shot from grassy Knoll?

Is the Z-film hopelessly compromised?

But in any case, the Z-film is essentially extraneous to the abundant information of deep-state intrigue in murdering JFK and covering-up their involvement, setting the stage for the immense fraud, betrayal and conspirational crimes of state that have completely subverted American democracy, turning it into the Military-Corporate-Criminal Syndicate-run oligarchal Police State it has become.


On a 'lighter' note, I've always tremendously enjoyed this wonderful performance of Carl Sagan 'singing' Glorious Dawn a'la Steven Hawking's mechanoid 'voice'.

Enjoy!

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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby redsock » Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:12 pm

Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Uh...gosh! "Greer" and automobiles!

Ever heard of...JFK's death limo driver, William Greer?
Typical name-game psyops.


If you stopped 100 people on the street and asked them "who was the driver of JFK's limo?" - how many right answers would you get? Of people under 50 (if not everyone), I'd say getting more than 1 out of 100 would be surprising.

If this is so "typical", how would this actually work for a typical American citizen? I have asked this question before -- when Hugh has posted a KWH example that makes no sense to me -- and been completely ignored. Many of Hugh's examples, including this one, strike me as silly (or quite creative on his part).

But maybe I'm ignorant. Either way, Hugh is clearly unwilling to explain exactly how the psy-ops works.

So ... Joe Normal hears Steven Greer's flying saucer claims (is this stuff even in mainstream newspapers or on CNN when Joe is watching?) and (I guess) thinks he is a kook. And "Greer" is supposed to remind him of JFK limo driver William Greer (how he knows about the driver is unclear) and he ties the two together in his mind, and now thinks of Greer the driver (and Greer's beliefs about the assassination, which Joe also knows in detail somehow) the driver as a kook. Which strengths Joe's belief in the Warren Commission's official story and makes him less likely to think there was a conspiracy. Is that it?

Or is Joe supposed to read about Steven Greer and thinks he's nuts and then in the future (next week, 5 years, 15 years?), when he hears the name William Greer, he will think back to what he read/heard for 45 seconds one day in 2011 and associate the two and thus dismiss whatever he is told about William Greer? Is that it?
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby Nordic » Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:22 pm

redsock wrote:
Hugh Manatee Wins wrote:Uh...gosh! "Greer" and automobiles!

Ever heard of...JFK's death limo driver, William Greer?
Typical name-game psyops.


If you stopped 100 people on the street and asked them "who was the driver of JFK's limo?" - how many right answers would you get? Of people under 50 (if not everyone), I'd say getting more than 1 out of 100 would be surprising.

If this is so "typical", how would this actually work for a typical American citizen? I have asked this question before -- when Hugh has posted a KWH example that makes no sense to me -- and been completely ignored. Many of Hugh's examples, including this one, strike me as silly (or quite creative on his part).

But maybe I'm ignorant. Either way, Hugh is clearly unwilling to explain exactly how the psy-ops works.

So ... Joe Normal hears Steven Greer's flying saucer claims (is this stuff even in mainstream newspapers or on CNN when Joe is watching?) and (I guess) thinks he is a kook. And "Greer" is supposed to remind him of JFK limo driver William Greer (how he knows about the driver is unclear) and he ties the two together in his mind, and now thinks of Greer the driver (and Greer's beliefs about the assassination, which Joe also knows in detail somehow) the driver as a kook. Which strengths Joe's belief in the Warren Commission's official story and makes him less likely to think there was a conspiracy. Is that it?

Or is Joe supposed to read about Steven Greer and thinks he's nuts and then in the future (next week, 5 years, 15 years?), when he hears the name William Greer, he will think back to what he read/heard for 45 seconds one day in 2011 and associate the two and thus dismiss whatever he is told about William Greer? Is that it?



Don't worry about it. The way we deal with Hugh is to mostly ignore him with this (literally) insane things he comes up with. Every now and then someone's head will explode (sometimes mine) but it just makes things worse. Jeff periodically bans him, and he comes right back.

Hugh is well read and is knowledgeable about many things, but his accusations are literally nutso. Like this one. It's part of the chaff you have to put up with to get the wheat of this place.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby redsock » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:41 pm

I understand all that. I've have been reading the board for many years.

But I honestly would like to know how it is supposed to work. And since this is a "typical" example, it should be a fairly straight-forward.

Some of Hugh's stuff has been great, but (for me, at least) a lot of it doesn't make a whole lot of common sense. For example, a recent issue of Time magazine used a somewhat similar layout to an issue they published 35 years ago? ... Are a lot of people really supposed to notice that an have it affect their brains?

Another example is when a news story appears and Hugh notes that there is a recently published novel (or movie) that is supposedly connected to it and meant to distract us from the news. I know a bit about publishing, but cannot figure out how a book can be written and published and on store shelves for weeks or months in anticipation of an upcoming news event (i.e., not an anniversary of a famous event).

Plus, if even all of Hugh's connections are actually going on, it seems like the vast majority of people do not pay one bit of attention to any of this stuff, so any alleged connection/diversion would be completely pointless.
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby undead » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:12 pm

redsock wrote:I understand all that. I've have been reading the board for many years.

But I honestly would like to know how it is supposed to work. And since this is a "typical" example, it should be a fairly straight-forward.

Some of Hugh's stuff has been great, but (for me, at least) a lot of it doesn't make a whole lot of common sense. For example, a recent issue of Time magazine used a somewhat similar layout to an issue they published 35 years ago? ... Are a lot of people really supposed to notice that an have it affect their brains?

Another example is when a news story appears and Hugh notes that there is a recently published novel (or movie) that is supposedly connected to it and meant to distract us from the news. I know a bit about publishing, but cannot figure out how a book can be written and published and on store shelves for weeks or months in anticipation of an upcoming news event (i.e., not an anniversary of a famous event).

Plus, if even all of Hugh's connections are actually going on, it seems like the vast majority of people do not pay one bit of attention to any of this stuff, so any alleged connection/diversion would be completely pointless.


I agree with Hugh in general, but he's a bit over the top sometimes, and this leads people to be overly skeptical of his thesis. It's really a lot like Jesse Ventura's TV show, which is funny because Hugh talks shit about him for making conspiracy research seem ridiculous. Maybe Hugh is just jealous that Jesse has his own TV show.

To see the blatant hand-in-glove CIA manipulation of Hollywood, examine the American Ganster / Charlie Daniels War connection. A true story about US military heroin smuggling, in which a black man is the man in charge, followed by a whitewash of the creation of the mujaheddin attributing it to a relatively obscure individual.
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Re: Was Carl Sagan in on it?

Postby Nordic » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:17 pm

hugh singlehandedly ensures that this site will never be anything more than an internet backwater for "conspiracy theorists" if you know what i mean.

either he's insane, or that's his job. you decide.
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