David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Canadian_watcher » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:51 pm

compared2what? wrote:I wouldn't say it was a debunking.

It was a mild, accurate, not particularly in-depth assessment of a company and one of its products that most people (who didn't base their opinions on what they'd been told and unquestioningly taken on faith) would just have thought it was dull, if a little out of character.


well I don't know what else to call an article posted on a site whose pitch for pubilc support is:

Your support helps the JREF to:

--Expose paranormal and pseudoscientific frauds in the media, and hold media organizations accountable for promoting dangerous nonsense
--Provide grants and free teaching modules to educators, to help them inspire an investigative spirit in the next generation of critical thinkers
--Award scholarships that encourage scientific skepticism among students
--Support grassroots skeptics groups with tools to help them organize and promote skepticism and critical thinking
--Digitally publish the important works of skepticism for distribution on the iPad, Kindle and other e-readers
--Organize major conferences and other gatherings that bring the entire skeptical community together[/list]



People writing for his site are vetted, I would assume, and their pieces edited and selected and approved of before hand.

EDIT: sorry, sorry! did you already respond to my other post? I rethought it. sorry, but really it's still the same thing, I just thought of a better way to say it.
Last edited by Canadian_watcher on Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby compared2what? » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:01 pm

Canadian_watcher » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:51 pm wrote:
compared2what? wrote:I wouldn't say it was a debunking.

It was a mild, accurate, not particularly in-depth assessment of a company and one of its products that most people (who didn't base their opinions on what they'd been told and unquestioningly taken on faith) would just have thought it was dull, if a little out of character.


well I don't know what else to call an article posted on a site whose pitch for pubilc support is:


What it is, not what other people told you it was when making your mind up for you.


*have you, if so, please correct me.


________
EDIT: I removed stuff that I shouldn't have written and changed things to reflect what I really meant
.

Ditto. Apologies.
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him.” -- Rand Paul
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Canadian_watcher » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:06 pm

compared2what? » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:01 pm wrote:
Canadian_watcher » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:51 pm wrote:
compared2what? wrote:I wouldn't say it was a debunking.

It was a mild, accurate, not particularly in-depth assessment of a company and one of its products that most people (who didn't base their opinions on what they'd been told and unquestioningly taken on faith) would just have thought it was dull, if a little out of character.


well I don't know what else to call an article posted on a site whose pitch for pubilc support is:


What it is, not what other people told you it was when making your mind up for you.


Attention Moderators: I'm about to tell c2w to go fuck herself. I haven't done it yet, please advise.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Project Willow » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:17 pm

Canadian_watcher » 04 Jul 2013 10:06 wrote:Attention Moderators: I'm about to tell c2w to go fuck herself. I haven't done it yet, please advise.


Yeah, please don't do that.

If something she said felt hurtful to you, please check that out with her via pm.

Thanks.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:19 pm

slimmouse » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:49 pm wrote:
American Dream wrote:So if I don't understand your position on the fundamental points of Icke's platform and misunderstand something about your history with the Internet and conspiracies, then it's my fault because I won't dig through and read your 50,000 posts?


AD, Im sorry. But if you don't get where slad is coming from yet, then youre once again a serious disappointment to me.

Do you have any interesting recent news about the ongoing march to global hitech mindcontrolled serfdom and tyranny that ulitmately involves almost every last fucking one of us?

A kind of Randian Utopia where the only reality that exists is the one that they tell you exists?

Slad's revealed a lot of it lately.



I am not able to figure out why AD is so fixated on me.....why it concerns him to no end my views on Icke...Why is he so demanding for me to tell him my views...what have I ever posted about Icke that he feels it is his full time job to pin me down on this Icke thing? Why does he badger me so? Why is he so obsessed with me? It's kinda spooky....One would think there has to be another reason for his infatuation. Is it my eyes :P Why is he clearly haunted by my not taking his questions to me seriously? Why or why is he so captivated and can not let it go? These are the questions I'd like answers to :)
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby American Dream » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:24 pm

slimmouse » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:49 pm wrote:
American Dream wrote:So if I don't understand your position on the fundamental points of Icke's platform and misunderstand something about your history with the Internet and conspiracies, then it's my fault because I won't dig through and read your 50,000 posts?


AD, Im sorry. But if you don't get where slad is coming from yet, then youre once again a serious disappointment to me.

Do you have any interesting recent news about the ongoing march to global hitech mindcontrolled serfdom and tyranny that ulitmately involves almost every last fucking one of us?

A kind of Randian Utopia where the only reality that exists is the one that they tell you exists?

Slad's revealed a lot of it lately.


She seems to me like an ardent defender of Icke- I've never noticed her to disagree with him about anything at all. But what I hear her saying directly with her words is something quite different. So, rather than misinterpret what seem to be discrepancies, I'd much rather have her represent her own opinions- directly, in her own words.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby American Dream » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:27 pm

seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:19 pm wrote:
slimmouse » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:49 pm wrote:
American Dream wrote:So if I don't understand your position on the fundamental points of Icke's platform and misunderstand something about your history with the Internet and conspiracies, then it's my fault because I won't dig through and read your 50,000 posts?


AD, Im sorry. But if you don't get where slad is coming from yet, then youre once again a serious disappointment to me.

Do you have any interesting recent news about the ongoing march to global hitech mindcontrolled serfdom and tyranny that ulitmately involves almost every last fucking one of us?

A kind of Randian Utopia where the only reality that exists is the one that they tell you exists?

Slad's revealed a lot of it lately.



I am not able to figure out why AD is so fixated on me.....why it concerns him to no end my views on Icke...Why is he so demanding for me to tell him my views...what have I ever posted about Icke that he feels it is his full time job to pin me down on this Icke thing? Why does he badger me so? Why is he so obsessed with me? It's kinda spooky....One would think there has to be another reason for his infatuation. Is it my eyes :P Why is he clearly haunted by my not taking his questions to me seriously? Why or why is he so captivated and can not let it go? These are the questions I'd like answers to :)


Mmm...The first thing that comes to mind is how you can endlessly complain about me, that I'm so horrible and doing bad things, even when I'm not really posting much on a thread at all, or saying anything to you at all.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Canadian_watcher » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:30 pm

i have heard the words "obsessed" and American Dream in the same sentence before. This is not the first time.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby compared2what? » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:44 pm

Canadian_watcher » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:06 pm wrote:
compared2what? » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:01 pm wrote:
Canadian_watcher » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:51 pm wrote:
compared2what? wrote:I wouldn't say it was a debunking.

It was a mild, accurate, not particularly in-depth assessment of a company and one of its products that most people (who didn't base their opinions on what they'd been told and unquestioningly taken on faith) would just have thought it was dull, if a little out of character.


well I don't know what else to call an article posted on a site whose pitch for pubilc support is:


What it is, not what other people told you it was when making your mind up for you.


Attention Moderators: I'm about to tell c2w to go fuck herself. I haven't done it yet, please advise.


I apologize. I felt provoked by the personal antagonism in what you deleted. My point was really only that it is what is is on its merits (or the lack of them) irrespective of what anything else is. Or isn't.

The other stuff on the site provides material for contextualizing it. But if it's not excessively scornful and nothing in it is untrue, untoward or exaggerated, it's just an assessment of the company and one of its products. If you don't find it compelling, you don't. But that doesn't mean it's every kind of vile, contemptible, destructive thing imaginable.

I thought it was dull, sloppy and narrow-minded, myself. There's a lot more to the company than that.

Anyway. I'm sorry.
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him.” -- Rand Paul
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:47 pm

for example...this is what I have been doing while posting in this thread....listening to this great debate...it's what I think is important not someone's weird obsessive questions about something I have told him over and over and over I will not answer... questions from people I have no respect for will NOT be answered

US NSA surveillance programme, surveillance bodies in various Member States and impact on EU
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/ep-live/e ... 2862307554
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby slimmouse » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:21 pm

seemslikeadream » 04 Jul 2013 18:47 wrote:for example...this is what I have been doing while posting in this thread....listening to this great debate...it's what I think is important not someone's weird obsessive questions about something I have told him over and over and over I will not answer... questions from people I have no respect for will NOT be answered

US NSA surveillance programme, surveillance bodies in various Member States and impact on EU
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/ep-live/e ... 2862307554


Since my internet connection wont allow me anything approaching a decent live stream of this, would you mind posting a few highlights slad?
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Searcher08 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:56 pm

seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:19 pm wrote:
slimmouse » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:49 pm wrote:
American Dream wrote:So if I don't understand your position on the fundamental points of Icke's platform and misunderstand something about your history with the Internet and conspiracies, then it's my fault because I won't dig through and read your 50,000 posts?


AD, Im sorry. But if you don't get where slad is coming from yet, then youre once again a serious disappointment to me.

Do you have any interesting recent news about the ongoing march to global hitech mindcontrolled serfdom and tyranny that ulitmately involves almost every last fucking one of us?

A kind of Randian Utopia where the only reality that exists is the one that they tell you exists?

Slad's revealed a lot of it lately.



I am not able to figure out why AD is so fixated on me.....why it concerns him to no end my views on Icke...Why is he so demanding for me to tell him my views...what have I ever posted about Icke that he feels it is his full time job to pin me down on this Icke thing? Why does he badger me so? Why is he so obsessed with me? It's kinda spooky....One would think there has to be another reason for his infatuation. Is it my eyes :P Why is he clearly haunted by my not taking his questions to me seriously? Why or why is he so captivated and can not let it go? These are the questions I'd like answers to :)


:angelwings: :lovehearts: It's your Irish eyes :lovehearts:

May I suggest...? This is just my perspective after having something of a breakthrough around this...

Because AD cares very very deeply about seeing a better world be created and sorts the world according to that which helps maximise change in the social system and aims to do his best to fight against those forces which he sees as helping to ultimately block and deny change.
AD is probably one of , if not the most practical activist here. I have been very aware in my dialogue with him that this side has come through very little on RI and that from an NLP-informed perspective his language around his skill of activism indicates a very rich 'mental map', to compress dramatically, IMHO 'will this feed the poor?...If not , then question and challenge it to #establish truth'. That which has been thought about is added to the tapestry, that which is rejected is prevented...
HOWEVER - this occurs in a totally different context to MiB - he is only interested in "entertaining" his fellow pseudoskeptics with how batshit insane people outside his map of the world are...

I dont feel any animosity towards AD anymore and feel goodwill from him.

My attitude to Icke is a mirror image of AD - I dont look on Icke as an ideology to follow or a Worldview to critique, or as a sum of the truth values of each thing he writes about.
Rather I look on Icke as an interesting system of transformation, a catalyst, a re-transmitter/assembler of often very 'novel' information and who then creates his own maps based on these. So for me , every single thing that he says could be incorrect and I would probably still like the guy - I treat what he says as a 'provocation' to see where it leads and sometimes that is to really interesting places - like the Bank of International Settlements - an institution deserving of every bit of R.I. scrutiny going.

Icke passes the 'child test' for me - would I be happy and confident that I could leave my child with him to babysit over a weekend and know that they would be taken care of, well fed and loved and be safe. I (so far) dont have kids but feel if I did Icke would pass that test (and so would you and AD :hug1: )

I hope it was ok to say that, slad - as I think how we think is probably very similar
(judging by the number of times I have nearly typed

^^ what slad said ^^

but didnt cos if I did I would have Repetitive Strain Injury I'd be doing it so often :mrgreen:
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby seemslikeadream » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:23 pm

slimmouse » Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:21 pm wrote:
seemslikeadream » 04 Jul 2013 18:47 wrote:for example...this is what I have been doing while posting in this thread....listening to this great debate...it's what I think is important not someone's weird obsessive questions about something I have told him over and over and over I will not answer... questions from people I have no respect for will NOT be answered

US NSA surveillance programme, surveillance bodies in various Member States and impact on EU
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/ep-live/e ... 2862307554


Since my internet connection wont allow me anything approaching a decent live stream of this, would you mind posting a few highlights slad?



YES WE SCAN!....I can't remember who said that but it was a highlight for me :)

Dutch ALDE MEP Sophie Veld says EU has to guarantee Europeans that they are covered by European law, not American law

German MEP Jan Philipp Albrecht accuses NSA of "meltdown" and "espionage against democratic countries & institutions"

Former Belgian PM and EU parliementary political party head Guy Verhofstadt condemns "American data collection mania"

German MEP Markus Ferber says US use of "Stasi methods sacrifices all credibility as a moral authority"

Elmar Brok, chairman of Foreign Affairs Committee in European Parliament says NSA spying is "intolerable"

Hans-Peter Martin, Austrian European parliamentarian, says US has become a worldwide spy, targeting friends.

Cornelia Ernst, German MEP says US/UK spying “is organised crime at behest of nation states”

Greek EU parliamentarian Dimitrious Droutsas on NSA spying: "we cannot back down on the rights of European citizens"

EU Votes To Suspend U.S. Data Sharing Agreements Over NSA Scandal
By: DSWright Thursday July 4, 2013 10:08 am

The fallout from the NSA spying scandal may be just beginning as the European Parliament voted in favor of a resolution that would back the European Commission if it decides to suspend data sharing agreements with the U.S.

The European Parliament on Thursday adopted a joint, cross-party resolution to begin investigations into widespread surveillance of Europeans by the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA).

In the vote, 483 voted for the resolution, 98 against, and 65 abstained on a vote that called on the U.S. to suspend and review any laws and surveillance programmes that “violate the fundamental right of EU citizens to privacy and data protection,” as well as Europe’s “sovereignty and jurisdiction. The vote also gave backing to the suspension of data sharing deals between the two continents, should the European Commission take action against its U.S. ally.

This would include the passenger name records system for flights and terrorist finance tracking. In other words, the Obama Administration’s rogue behavior with the NSA could lead to the loss of an ability to get information that actually matters for national security.

Members of the European Parliament (MEPs) in a plenary session in Strasbourg voted in favor of a section of the resolution that called on the Commission to “give consideration to all the instruments at their disposal in discussions and negotiations with the U.S. [...] including the possible suspension of the passenger name record (PNR) and terrorist finance tracking programme (TFTP) agreements.”

Should the Commission decide it necessary to suspend the data sharing agreement of passenger details — including personal and sensitive individual data — it could ultimately lead to the grounding of flights between the EU and the U.S.

Grounding flights and losing access to the terrorist money trail – thanks NSA!

Ultimately it is the European Commission not the European Parliament that is responsible for taking these actions. Though this vote gives the Commission considerable cover should they want to take action. But no matter what happens, America has infuriated some of its longest standing allies. Perhaps given that the Cold War is over it is time to roll back some of the national security state to prevent disasters like we are facing today.
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby DrEvil » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:52 pm

Mason I Bilderberg » Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:40 pm wrote:
DrEvil » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:46 am wrote:
If somebody had posted a disney movie here, i don't see how it would be unreasonable to expect somebody here likes disney movies.


It's perfectly possible to like Disney movies without believing the characters in them are real.


Except nobody is using disney movies as a guiding philosophy on how the world "really" works.


Aah, I can tell that you're new here. You must have missed Hugh. :bigsmile
Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebration,_Florida

Not saying that many people actually believe that's how the world works, but there sure are plenty of people who would like it to be.

Every time I go to suburban America, I get the impression that everyone is trying to look like they and their houses belong in a Disney version of the world, where everything is nice and freshly painted, lawns are religiously mowed and kids become junkies if they color their hair or get a piercing.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
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Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby American Dream » Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:15 pm

http://www.american-buddha.com/icke.pol ... sreich.htm

DAVID ICKE AND THE POLITICS OF MADNESS -- WHERE THE NEW AGE MEETS THE THIRD REICH

by Will Offley

February 29, 2000

On the face of it, few people would credit a retired soccer player who rants about a world takeover by blood-drinking lizards from outer space as being much of a threat to democracy. And as a general rule, they would probably be right.
David Icke, however, is an exception to that rule.

Icke, 48, is a native of Leicester, England. For five years he played professionally for the Coventry City and Hereford United soccer teams until forced to retire by arthritis. He subsequently went on to become a sports announcer for BBC-TV. For three years from 1988 to 1991 he was national spokesperson for the British Green Party, until he began a political evolution that was to begin with his expulsion from the Greens and wind up with his current involvement with anti-Semitism, neofascism, and lizards from Mars. [1]

At first this evolution seemed relatively harmless. Icke began to flirt seriously with New Age theories, and then began to act on them. He dressed in turquoise, and began to call himself the "son of godhead". But by the time his book "The Robot's Rebellion" was printed in 1994, his trajectory had begun to take quite a different course. In 1996, the British magazine "Left Green Perspectives" wrote that this book "indicated a convergence of New Age thinking with Nazi philosophy. Casting aside his pat concerns about the environment, Icke enthusiastically embraced the classic Nazi conspiracy theory, alleging that the world is controlled by a secret cadre of "The Elite." He openly endorsed The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, the Tsarist anti-Semitic forgery that informed Hitler's notion of a global Jewish conspiracy."

The following year Icke brought out another book, "...and the truth shall set you free." This one, however, was self-published, as its content was so objectionable that his publisher refused to have it printed. And small wonder. The book repeated Icke's previous claims that the Protocols were true, and went on to state: "I strongly believe that a small Jewish clique which has contempt for the mass of Jewish people worked with non-Jews to create the First World War, the Russian Revolution, and the Second World War....They then dominated the Versailles Peace Conference and created the circumstances which made the Second World War inevitable. They financed Hitler to power in 1933 and made the funds available for his rearmament." [2]

"That Chamberlain is a strong Anti-Semite adds to the value of the testimony which he bears to the nobility of the Sephardim, the intensely aristocratic Jews of Spain and Portugal, the descendants of the men whom the Romans, dreading their influence, deported westward. "That is nobility in the fullest sense of the word, genuine nobility of race! Beautiful forms, noble heads, dignity in speech and in deportment.... That out of the midst of such men prophets and psalmists should go forth, that I understood at the first glance -- something which I confess the closest observation of the many hundred 'Bochers' in the Friedrichstrasse in Berlin had failed to enable me to do."
-- The Foundations of the Nineteenth Century, by Houston Stewart Chamberlain

In this book, Icke went even further. He began to flirt explicitly with Holocaust denial, saying "why do we play a part in suppressing alternative information to the official line of the Second World War? How is it right that while this fierce suppression goes on, free copies of the Spielberg film, Schindler's List, are given to schools to indoctrinate children with the unchallenged version of events. And why do we, who say we oppose tyranny and demand freedom of speech, allow people to go to prison and be vilified, and magazines to be closed down on the spot, for suggesting another version of history." [3] He also denounced the Nuremberg Trials as "a farce" and "a calculated exercise in revenge and manipulation." [4]

"It is better to support generously an individual, where possible the best individual you can find, than to try to take care of many with a few pennies each. Those who should be supported are strictly the old, and those of good Germanic descent, and for Jews, those of true Israeli descent.
-- Theozoology, or the Science of the Sodomite Apelings and the Divine Electron, by Dr. Jorg Lanz von Liebenfels

Icke's politics today are a mishmash of most of the dominant themes of contemporary neofascism, mixed in with a smattering of topics culled from the U.S. militia movement. He has written diatribes on the Illuminati, the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission as examples of secret plots to take over the world. He opposes gun control as a plot by this Elite, which has deliberately orchestrated numerous mass shootings to whip up opposition to guns. [5] He has repeatedly posted anti-abortion literature and articles on his web site. [6] He rails against conspiracies to implant microchips in everyone's bodies, coded with the Satanic number "666". [7] He even accuses the U.S. government of carrying out the Oklahoma City bombing and murdering 168 men, women and children. [8]

For a decade Icke has exhibited signs of serious mental instability. In his web site autobiography he reveals that as early as 1990 he became aware of "a presence around me, like there was always someone in the room when there was not. It got to the point where I sat on the side of the bed in a hotel room in London in early 1990 and said to whoever or whatever: "If you are there will you please contact me because you are driving me up the wall." A year later, on holiday in Peru, Icke describes hearing voices: "as I looked at the mound, a voice in my head began to say: "Come to me, come to me, come to me.... Suddenly I felt my feet pulled to the ground again like a magnet, the same as in the newspaper shop, but this time far more powerful. My arms then shot above my head, with no decision by me for them to do so.... A flow of powerful energy began to go into the top of my head like a drill, and I could feel the flow going the other way up from the ground through my feet. It was then I heard the third voice in my head, something that has never happened since. It said very clearly: "It will be over when you feel the rain". [9]

Over the last year Icke's writings have become so paranoid and so extreme that many are probably inclined to dismiss him as posing any sort of threat, or requiring a response. Icke is now arguing in all seriousness that the Illuminati plot to take over the world is actually being carried out by a race of extraterrestrial reptiles in human form. They are described, literally, as being child-sacrificing, blood-drinking Satan-worshippers capable of changing their shape, whose ranks include George Bush, Bill and Hilary Clinton, Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mum, Bob Hope and Kris Kristofferson, among others. [10]

David Icke is not alone. He is a small industry in a large and lucrative market of often well-to do New Age boomers. He has several web sites, an e-magazine, his own publishing house, and at least 9 books and 4 videotapes to his credit. He is constantly on the road, touring North America, Europe, Australia, South Africa, the Pyramids, and elsewhere. In the last five years he has spoken in Vancouver as many times, and across Canada he can turn out substantial audiences. His organizers claim he had 1,000 people out to hear him at his last gig in Vancouver, and he hopes to fill the Vogue Theatre on March 19. It's a large milieu that can afford the hefty prices Icke charges - up to $67 to attend a lecture, forty to fifty dollars for videotapes - and that generates a sizeable income for Icke and his message of conspiracism, fear and hate.

To organize all this, Icke has developed an international network of people who work with him and for him. They book the dates, churn out the posters and press releases, do the advance work, pick him up at the airport, get him to the hotel, introduce him, and get him back to his flight on time. They also show clearly why David Icke is a dangerous man, because they underscore his politics in an unmistakable way.

Icke is undeniably a flake, and a world-class flake, but his danger comes from his alliances as well as his politics. And it's the far right who handle this man, who package and promote and present his message across Canada and around the world.

Take Joseph Duggan. Duggan is the proprietor of Strong Eagles Productions, the company organizing Icke's current Vancouver speaking engagement. Duggan makes his living in part from organizing B.C. speaking engagements for a string of conspiracy theorists and famous personalities of the extreme right like Glen Kealey, Cathy O'Brien, Len Horowitz and others. [11] Duggan also used to be the health editor of Shared Vision until last year, which has itself advertised tours by Icke and hosted speeches by him as well. Interspersed with monthly columns on health foods and natural healing, Duggan's writings in Shared Vision also promoted the far right anti-government activist Murray Gauvreau [12], Colorado militia supporter Suzanne Harris [13], and the notorious Glen Kealey. [14]

In March 1997, Duggan's column referred extensively to the book "War Cycles, Peace Cycles" by American writer Richard K. Hoskins. [15] Hoskins has been denounced as "a virulent anti-Semite who is a leading ideologue of the Christian Identity movement" by no less a source than Conrad Black's National Post. When Aryan Nations member Buford Furrow was arrested in Los Angeles last August after shooting and wounding five people at a Jewish community centre and murdering a Filipino postal worker, police found a copy of "War Cycles, Peace Cycles" in his car. [16]

Icke's books and videos are also distributed by an organization in Salmon Arm, B.C. called The Preferred Network. The Preferred Network's web site advertises at least four of Icke's books and the same number of videotapes, as well as an extensive selection of U.S. and Canadian conspiracy materials covering the traditional themes particular to the far right: the government coverup of the Oklahoma City bombing, "The 10 Secrets Revenue Canada Doesn't Want You To Know", "Humanity's Extraterrestrial Origins", the AIDS coverup, the Ebola coverup, the Lockerbie coverup, the PanAm 800 coverup, "Satanism And The CIA", and Kari Simpson's expose of the gay agenda in B.C. schools. [17]

David Lethbridge, director of the Salmon Arm Coalition Against Racism, has described the organizer of The Preferred Network in the following way: "a well-attended demonstration opposing the Multilateral Agreement on Investment was held [in the spring of 1998] in Salmon Arm, B.C.... Working the fringes was Wes Mann, organizer of the Preferred Network. Mann was handing out flyers for conspiracy advocates David Icke, Ted Gunderson and Cathy O'Brien. Whenever he could, Mann would strike up a conversation with one of the demonstrators, then write down their name and phone number. I knew who Mann was. His Preferred Network catalog carries several dozen books and tapes promoting the usual New Age fare: cancer cures, spiritualist prophecies, UFO tales and so on. But much of the catalog consists of materials promoting right-wing militias and right-wing conspiracy theories, and books by notorious fascists and antisemites such as Eustace Mullins. I went over to Mann, who did not recognize me, and began to question him. Within minutes he was telling me that the MAI was the work of a conspiracy organized by the mysterious "Black Nobility" and the "International Bankers". The anti-Jewish code words were obvious. Soon Mann was telling me that the antisemitic forgery The Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion was authentic, that the Nazi Holocaust had never occurred, that the contemporary Jews were not Jews at all but descendants of the Turkish Khazars, and that the fascist Eustace Mullins was "a brilliant researcher". [18]

In Ottawa, Icke's key organizer is Tom J. Kennedy. Kennedy was responsible for much of the organizational detail of Icke's October 1999 speaking tour in Ottawa, Toronto, and Windsor, Ontario, also acting as his gofer and driver. [19] But Kennedy's activities do not stop there. He is an active supporter of Canada's DeTax movement, a far right current that imitates the tax-resistance strategies of the Freemen and other Christian Patriot groups in the U.S. [20] Kennedy's web site also promotes Glen Kealey's conspiracist workshops, and other similar endeavours. [21] And his politics become even clearer when one reads the materials Kennedy has posted on the internet over his own name. On January 18, 1999, he posted an article attacking usury [a favourite code word among the far right for the international Jewish Bankers Conspiracy]. [22] He had originally found this article on a British web site, and liked it so much he reposted it to his own list. The British group that had written the article, Final Conflict, is one of Britain's hard-core neo-nazi groups, whose web site carries articles entitled "Did Six Million Really Die" and slogans reading "Long Live Death." [23] Four months later, on May 6, 1999 Kennedy posted an article on secret societies he had picked up from the Hoffman Wire. [24] The Hoffman Wire is a far-right Holocaust denial organization based in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, not far from the headquarters of Aryan Nations. [25]

Kennedy's web site now carries an article "Fear NOT - The Ultimate Label "Anti-Semitic", which clarifies his endorsement of Icke's politics: "I have always been motivated to find out the real reasons why particular researchers and historians get targeted with the ultimate label "Anti-Semitic" and other lesser labels such as "Neo-Nazi" and "Racist" Needless to say, I was motivated to follow the information in search of reasons why David Icke was being so labelled during his Ontario `99 tour.... Perhaps the unfair labelling of researchers as "Anti-Semites" has a hidden agenda to keep people from seeking the "truth?" Or could this whole "Anti-Semitic" labelling be another "divide and conquer" deflection to keep us busy while the real 10,000 year agenda of the Freemasons and Bilderbergers is being completed? Just wondering??" [26] In probability, the labelling of Tom Kennedy as anti-Semitic might have more to do with his stated support for Holocaust denier David Irving ("a meticulous historical researcher" [27]), or with his pal Ernst Zundel, who told Kennedy in the early 1980's "Tom, you are writing about the usurious money system which reaps the Financial Elite multiple millions annually. What you are writing about is even more sacred than "the holocaust", so be very careful for your well-being!!" [28]

David Icke's associations with the extreme right are not confined to Canada, nor are they only a recent phenomenon. One of the most ominous instances of this was documented in an article in the London Evening Standard concerning Icke's 1995 speaking tour of Britain to promote his newest book, The Robot's Rebellion. Journalist Mark Honigsbaum reported that "what worries the Jewish community most is that Icke's veiled anti-Semitic references are now attracting the attention of more sinister British forces, in particular Combat 18, the neo-Nazi group which recruits among football's violent hooligan fringe. The Jewish Chronicle has reported how Combat 18 has taken to publicizing Icke's current tour in its internal journal, Putsch. Citing Icke's recent lecture in Glastonbury, Putsch claimed that Icke "spoke of "the sheep" and how the Zionist-operated government, sorry, "Illuminati", uses them for its own ends." The Combat 18 report continued: "He began to talk about the big conspiracy by a group of bankers, media moguls, etc. - always being clever enough not to mention what all these had in common"." [29]

Combat 18 is fascist. The numbers do not stand for "eighteen" but for "one - eight", the first and eighth letters of the alphabet. A and H, as in Adolph Hitler. C18 was for much of the 90's the most important and the most violent organization in the British neo-Nazi movement, with a number of murders to its credit. [30] C18 has now fallen on hard times. Its main leader, Charlie Sargent, is serving a life term for the first degree murder of one of his own followers, and the group itself promptly split in two over a bitter struggle over finances; but none of this prevented it from carrying out two bombings in black and Bangladeshi neighbourhoods in London last summer, or of being suspected in the bombing of a gay pub that killed two and sent 60 people to hospital. [31] Such are David Icke's friends and associates.

Despite this record, Icke enjoys a surprising degree of support from unexpected quarters. Connie Fogal, married to the long-time leftie alderman Harry Rankin, has had her organization, the Defence of Canadian Liberty Association, set up a literature table at one of Icke's appearances. Paul Hellyer's Canada Action Party also had a table at Icke's last Vancouver speech. Icke is listed as a contributor to the supposedly left-wing tabloid The Radical, published in Quesnel and distributed widely throughout B.C. And Icke's tours have been advertised in local New Age publications like Shared Vision and Common Ground.

The fact is that some of what Icke says has a resonance in these quarters. He's against world conspiracies, free trade, the MAI, the WTO and corporate globalism. Many of his far right supporters are active in other areas as well: cannabis legalization, alternative health, anti-corporate activism, even support for native sovereignty struggles like Gustavsen Lake. It's long overdue for the left, the environmental movement, feminists, anti-WTO activists, lesbians and gays, and yes, even New Agers, to start looking more closely at Icke and his friends. The advocates of Holocaust denial and anti-Semitism will seldom if ever reveal their real agenda. They prefer to work in the shadows, using coded language, building patiently for a new and improved Reich. The threat they pose is no less real simply because it doesn't register on the radar screen. Yet.

All we need to do is look at Austria to see why these politics have to be confronted, isolated and defeated, and the price we will all pay if they are not.

_______________

Notes:

1. This biographical information is derived from three sources. One is an article by Matthew Kalman and John Murray entitled "From Green Messiah To New Age Nazi" appearing in Left Green Perspectives, Number 35, January 1996, which can be accessed on the internet at <http://www.thismag.org/~ise/lgp/issues/lgp35.shtml> Another is "Turning the Tide of World Events - An Interview With David Icke" by Joseph W. Duggan in Shared Vision, September 1996, pp.26-29. The third is biographical information from Icke's own web site, which can be found at <http://www.davidicke.com/icke/>

2. David Icke, "...and the truth shall set you free", Bridge of Love Press, Cambridge, September 1995, p.130.

3. Ibid, p.135.

4. Ibid, p.137.

5. David Icke, "Guns Or No Guns? A Time To Talk", Bridge of Love Magazine, Autumn 1997.

6. For example, see <http://www.davidicke.com/icke/magazine/vol16/baby.html>, which reprints "Secrets of the Dead-Baby Industry", from the August 23, 1999 issue of Alberta Report.

7. "...and the truth shall set you free", p.437.

8. Ibid, p.321.

9. "About David Icke: The Man, His Philosophy, And His Work", published on Icke's web site at <http://www.davidicke.com/icke/about.html>

0. David Icke, "List Of Famous Satanists, Paedophiles And Mind Controllers", on his web site at <http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles/listsatan.html>

11. "Strong Eagles Productions - Lecture & Seminar Schedule, March - June 1997", 1997 flyer.

12. Shared Vision, January 1997.

13. Shared Vision, January 1998.

14. Shared Vision, April 1997.

15. Joseph W. Duggan, "The Case For Monetary Reform", Shared Vision, March 1997.

16. Jan Cienski, "Living In A World Of Hate", National Post, August 14, 1999, p.A12.

17. The Preferred Network book and video catalog, "What's New At The Preferred Network?", at <http://www.preferrednetwork.com/newrelease.htm>

18. David Lethbridge, "Unwanted Allies: The Extreme Right And The MAI", in People's Voice, May 1998, <http://www.communist-party.ca/english/html/pv_may_unwanted.html>

19. Tom J. Kennedy, "Censor NOT", on the Cyberclass Network web site at <http://www.egroups.com/group/thecyberclassnetwork/16.html>

20. See, for example, Kennedy's posting on "Untax And Detax Info" on his web site at <http://www.egroups.com/thecyberclassnetwork/28.html>, and his theoretical justification of tax evasion, "Income Tax - To Pay Or Not To Pay" at <http://cyberclass.net/pay.htm>

21. "Glen Kealey's Wisdom Workshops", <http://www.cyberclass.net/wisdomwkshp.htm>

22. Tom J. Kennedy, "On Usury", <http://www.cyberclass.net/turmel/usury.htm>

23. Final Conflict web site, <http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/finalconflict/>

24. Tom J. Kennedy, "Bilderbergers - Hoffman Wire", on the internet at <http://www.destiny-worldwide.net/rcg/newform/bilder.txt>

25. To establish this one only has to visit the Hoffman Wire Online Bookstore at <http://www.hoffman-info.com/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi?product=News>

26. Tom J. Kennedy, at <http://www.cyberclass.net/ultimatelabel.htm>, p.10.

27. Tom J. Kennedy, "Freedom Of Speech?", on his web site at <http://www.egroups.co.jp/thecyberclassnetwork/18.html>

28. Tom J. Kennedy, at <http://www.cyberclass.net/ultimatelabel.htm>, p.2.

29. Mark Honigsbaum, "The Dark Side Of David Icke", London Evening Standard, Friday, May 26, 1995.

30. "Combat 18: A Year In The Life Of The U.K.'s Far Right", The Independent, February 1998, at <http://www.ryan.dircon.co.uk/c18.htm>

31. Audrey Woods, Associated Press, "Pub Bombing Kills 2, Injures 60 In London", at <http://corpuschristionline.com/autoconv/newsworld99/newsworld269.html>
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