How Bad Is Global Warming?

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby wintler2 » Sun Aug 11, 2013 3:21 pm

So BenD absents himself, having yet again decisively lost the science argument, and its now time for the pity party, cue sounder & lossy hammer. Boo hoo, cry me a river, just don't ask me to engage with their fake concern for poor BenDs fake feelings.
ps. i do tho love the spiritual garnishes lossy hammer & BenD put on their attempted putdowns - i think it helps discredit the whole new age spiritual vomit pool, which is a GOOD THING.
pps. propolluter is objectively accurate label. 'Indomitable Redoubt of The Blue Wizard + HoL is a precious pearl..' on every contentless post is simply embarrassing. All such onanistic sigs should pay a special bandwidth tax to the board op, imho.


--------------


Heatwave kills four in Japan
A heatwave stifled Japan on Sunday as the temperature topped 40 degrees Celsius in two cities, leaving at least four people dead over the weekend, officials and reports say.

The Japan Meteorological Agency said the temperature reached 40.6 C in Kofu, 100 kilometres west of Tokyo, in mid-afternoon.

The weather agency had warned early Sunday that the temperature would soar past 35 C in 39 of the country's 47 prefectures. It warned people to drink plenty of water and use airconditioners.

On Saturday, the mercury topped 40 C for the first time in Japan since August 2007, when it had reached an all-time high of 40.9 C in two separate cities.

An 84-year-old woman and a 66-year-old man in western Japan died from heat stroke on Saturday after they were found collapsed in fields, Kyodo news agency said. Two more deaths from heat stroke were confirmed by officials on Sunday.

An 80-year-old woman died in hospital after she was found collapsed at her wooden home on Sunday morning in Arita, a city south of Osaka, a medical evacuation official said. The living room where she was found was not airconditioned. In Saitama north of Tokyo, a 60-year-old man died in hospital after he was found unconscious on a street.

The heatwave, also gripping parts of China, has been caused by a Pacific high pressure system covering most of the Japanese islands, the weather agency said.

In early July a heatwave in the country claimed at least a dozen lives, according to media reports.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:17 pm

brainpanhandler » Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:13 pm wrote:Ya know, I would agree with that if there had not already been YEARS of patient but fruitless discussion (going around in circles) with yer buddy Bendy

Look, simply read pages 20 through 23 of the Global Warming, Eh? thread:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=32878&start=285

Please. Simply read it. If after having carefully read it you cannot see that "discussion" with BenD is not an actual exchange with a good faith actor then I don't know what will convince you.

Bph, you keep referring to pages 20 to 23 of the Global Warming thread as though it proved something...so here's the challenge, let you and I have a discussion of any aspect of global warming you choose, the solar aspect is the one that you seem to think I am avoiding, and we can discuss it in a reasonable way, scientifically..no name calling, no interference or pile on from others, no abuse, no undue haste,...just the reasonable exchange of informed science on the subject at hand.

Please feel free to start when you are ready.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:29 pm

wintler2 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:21 am wrote:So BenD absents himself, having yet again decisively lost the science argument, and its now time for the pity party, cue sounder & lossy hammer. Boo hoo, cry me a river, just don't ask me to engage with their fake concern for poor BenDs fake feelings.
ps. i do tho love the spiritual garnishes lossy hammer & BenD put on their attempted putdowns - i think it helps discredit the whole new age spiritual vomit pool, which is a GOOD THING.
pps. propolluter is objectively accurate label. 'Indomitable Redoubt of The Blue Wizard + HoL is a precious pearl..' on every contentless post is simply embarrassing. All such onanistic sigs should pay a special bandwidth tax to the board op, imho.

Wintler2, you are a disgusting example of a human being, the worst kind in existence on God's Earth. This is not just my personal judgement, nor is it based on just that one last post, let the mystery reveal itself as the future unfolds.

ps. I will no longer respond to any posts from you that contain any derogative connotations whatsoever...
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby wintler2 » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:25 pm

Fairbanks adds to record heat stretch, 36 days over 80 degrees with below-normal rain

FAIRBANKS, Alaska – The temperature hit 80 degrees for the record 36th time this summer on Thursday in Fairbanks, and, only 1.44 inches of rain has fallen in Alaska's second-largest city since June 1, according to the National Weather Service.

That's 2.25 inches below normal and makes this summer the fourth-driest on record, meteorologist Ed Plumb told the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner (http://bit.ly/1czUw74 ).

There is no precipitation in the forecast for the next week. "We're not getting any August weather any time soon," Plumb said.

August is normally the wettest month of the summer, but the Alaska fire season still is cooking.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/09/fa ... ow-normal/
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:46 pm

There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

** or Nirvana, Allah, Brahman, Tao, etc...
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby wintler2 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:16 am

Image
"Wintler2, you are a disgusting example of a human being, the worst kind in existence on God's Earth. This is not just my personal judgement.." BenD

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:02 am

So wintler2, the graph posted below is the global temperature record from CRU for the period 1998 to 2013. I'm pretty sure you agree that it does show that there is a pause in the warming over the period, compared to the period from 1979 to 1998 also shown below.

Btw, could you please provide the source of the data on which your post is based? Thanks.

Image

Image

Here they are on the one plot..

Image
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby wintler2 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:43 am

Image

Hot House

I plucked this graphic from a report [pdf] just released by the World Meteorological Organization, summarizing the status of the global climate in 2012. It shows the 50 hottest years on record, and I find it to be a new and interesting way to depict the progress of global warming over the decades.

The vertical axis of the graph shows how temperature for a given year departed from the long-term average. And the color-coding of the bars is a way of depicting the distribution of the temperature records on a decadal timescale. (The size of each bar, by the way, is an indication of the uncertainty inherent in each record. The longer the bar, the greater the uncertainty.)

The take-home message of the graph can be seen in the red and orange bars: Of the 20 hottest years on record, 19 have occurred since 1990. And of the 10 hottest, nine have occurred since 2000.

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:04 am

Thank you. Yes it is an interesting graphic, but doesn't graphically show the pause in global warming as the graphs that I posted do.

And that's the rub, this pause has shown the earlier AGW temperature predictions based of CO2 forcing to be in over estimated, as Judith Currie has stated, so the coming few years is going to interesting.

And btw, readers should know that the Earth's global temperature has been much higher than this many times in the past in the inter-glacial periods, and so has CO2 levels,..that without the human civilization as exists today.

Image
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby wintler2 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:42 am

Today's Climate Change Proves Much Faster Than Changes in Past 65 Million Years

Climate change is occurring 10 to 100 times faster than in the past and ecosystems will find it hard to adjust

The climate is changing at a pace that's far faster than anything seen in 65 million years, a report out of Stanford University says.

The amount of global temperature increase and the short time over which it's occurred create a change in velocity that outstrips previous periods of warming or cooling, the scientists said in research published in today's Science. ..

If the Earth stays on its current course without reversing greenhouse gas emissions, and global temperatures rise 5 degrees Celsius, as scientists say is possible, the pace of change will be at least 50 times and possibly 100 times swifter than what's occurred in the past, Field said. The numbers are imprecise because the comparison is to an era 55 million years ago, he said.

"The planet has not experienced changes this rapid in 65 million years," Field said. "Humans have never seen anything like this."

Field, in the school's Department of Global Ecology with the Carnegie Institution for Science, and Noah Diffenbaugh, an associate professor of environmental Earth system science, reviewed and synthesized existing research on climate change for a special issue of Science: "Natural Systems in Changing Climates." ..

Plants and animals essentially would need to move about 1 yard each day farther north or higher in elevation to maintain the conditions they prefer, Field said. While farmers and others can shift where they grow crops, Field said, it's different for a butterfly or a maple tree.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... R_20130807

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby brainpanhandler » Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:06 am

Ben,

You know what it proves. (it was very thoughtful of you to provide such a time saving shortcut. Sadly it's not useful for the reading comprehension challenged) And what it proves is precisely why I absolutely won't go around and around with you anymore. I've got better things to waste my time on, like, I don't know, sorting paper clips.

Good day to you, sir!
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Hammer of Los » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:41 pm

...

If we might stick to links and pertinent commentary and avoid personal attacks and slurs and offensive language, it would be nice.

I'll just ask the mods to intervene next time.

Or do you know what the mods think of me, too, bph?

You must be a mind reader.

I find a wide range of articles interesting in this field.

The ones with just the one point to prove, not so much.

...
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Nordic » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:03 pm

Gosh, what a surprise!


http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... l-fox-news

Fox News found to be a major driving force behind global warming denial

American consumers of conservative media like Fox News distrust climate scientists and don't believe the planet is warming


Fox News is helping prop up conservative American global warming denial.

A new study published in the journal Public Understanding of Science (PDF available here) surveyed a nationally representative sample of over 1,000 Americans in 2008 and 2011 about their media consumption and beliefs about climate change.

The results suggest that conservative media consumption (specifically Fox News and Rush Limbaugh) decreases viewer trust in scientists, which in turn decreases belief that global warming is happening. In contrast, consumption of non-conservative media (specifically ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, NPR, The New York Times, and The Washington Post) increases consumer trust in scientists, and in turn belief that global warming is happening.

The study also examined previous research on this issue and concluded that the conservative media creates distrust in scientists through five main methods:

1) Presenting contrarian scientists as "objective" experts while presenting mainstream scientists as self-interested or biased.

2) Denigrating scientific institutions and peer-reviewed journals.

3) Equating peer-reviewed research with a politically liberal opinion.

4) Accusing climate scientists of manipulating data to fund research projects.

5) Characterizing climate science as a religion.

Media Matters provides examples of Fox News engaging in all five of these tactics. One prime example involves contrarian meteorologist Joe Bastardi, a frequent climate misinformation guest on Fox News who Rolling Stone awarded the #1 dumbest thing ever said about global warming for claiming that CO2 "literally" cannot cause warming because it doesn't "mix well in the atmosphere."

In reality we've known for nearly 190 years that rising CO2 causes global warming, and we know for certain it's well-mixed throughout the atmosphere, as illustrated by measurements from around the world.

The results of this study can be compared to the PhD research done by my Skeptical Science colleague John Cook, at the University of Queensland. Cook surveyed representative samples of Australians and Americans regarding their political ideologies and the effect of consensus on their acceptance of human-caused global warming. After being shown evidence of the consensus on human-caused global warming, Australian acceptance of this scientific reality grew across the political spectrum, but especially among conservatives.

In the American sample, acceptance grew for most political groups, but especially among political liberals. In the American sample, there was also a small and extremely politically conservative group who actually became more likely to reject human-caused global warming in response to evidence of the expert consensus. Cook presented his data at the American Geophysical Union Chapman Conference on Climate Science Communication, shown in the video below at the 10-minute mark.


Cook's result appears consistent with the new study published in Public Understanding of Science, which found that exposure to conservative media decreases trust in climate scientists. In short, Fox News and other conservative media outlets plant the notion that climate scientists are somehow faking evidence for human-caused global warming. This makes viewers less trusting of climate scientists and less likely to accept that global warming is happening.

With conservatives tending to get their information from conservative media sources, this is increasing the political polarization on the subject of climate change. However, with the real-world effects of climate change constantly becoming more difficult to deny, this is not a sustainable situation. Eventually reality must break in, and there are signs that this is beginning to happen.

A growing number of American conservatives are demanding that the Republican Party stop denying the problem and begin participating in crafting the solution. For example, the list of conservatives supporting a revenue-neutral carbon tax continues to grow:

51 percent of Republican voters
Art Laffer, economic advisor to Ronald Reagan
Greg Mankiw, economic advisor to George W. Bush and Mitt Romney
George Shultz, Reagan's Secretary of State
Gary Becker, Nobel Laureate in economics
Bob Inglis, former Republican Congressman from South Carolina
A staffer for a House Republican
William Ruckelshaus, EPA Administrator under Nixon and Reagan
Lee Thomas, EPA Administrator under Reagan
William Reilly, EPA Administrator under George H.W. Bush
Christine Todd Whitman, EPA Administrator under George W. Bush

The list goes on. Moreover, 73 percent of young voters under the age of 35 associate denial of global warming with words like "ignorant," "out-of-touch" or "crazy," including 53 percent of young Republicans. Climate solutions are also growing in popularity due to their real-world success, with British Columbia's revenue-neutral carbon tax enjoying 64 percent support, and California's carbon cap and trade system experiencing 67 percent support.

The question now is how long the Republican Party's global warming denial and obstruction of climate solutions can last in the face of these growing numbers of Americans (including Republicans) demanding climate solutions. Climate misinformation from Fox News and other conservative media outlets may be stemming the tide against climate denial, but the tide is rising, both literally and figuratively.


How can you deny the earth is warming up, when it is, uh, obviously warming up. There's a lake at the north pole that sorta proves that.

What's causing it is the only thing that could possibly be argued about.

But what bothers me is that nobody talks about deforestation, only fossil fuels. Why is that? I find that suspicious. I think it's because they want the whole "carbon credit" bullshit to go through, which would benefit only Wall Street.

We cut down the forests, we all die. Pretty simple.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby wintler2 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:50 pm

Nordic wrote:..
But what bothers me is that nobody talks about deforestation, only fossil fuels. Why is that? I find that suspicious.

Plenty of orgs do, but it seems they're not heard..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming: 'Warming of the climate system is unequivocal, and scientists are more than 90% certain that it is primarily caused by increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases produced by human activities such as the burning of fossil fuels and deforestation.'
http://www.nature.com/scitable/blog/gre ... al_warming
http://www.globalwarming360.net/defores ... rming.html
http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/200 ... index.html

Nordic wrote:I think it's because they want the whole "carbon credit" bullshit to go through, which would benefit only Wall Street.


There are existing carbon taxes in ..
Finland
Sweden
Norway
Switzerland
Costa Rica
South Africa
India
Japan
British Columbia & Quebec, Canada
Australia
Ireland
UK
Holland
EU - emissions trading scheme, defacto tax
New Zealand - ets
China (partial from 2013, national 2015)
South Korea (from 2015)
http://www.carbontax.org/progress/where ... -is-taxed/
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1492 ... -the-world
Note that what those cover varies tremendously from country to country.

Nordic wrote:We cut down the forests, we all die. Pretty simple.

A bit too simple. IIRC most oxygen & rainfall are actually generated in the sea, which is partly why ocean acidification is such bad news. Forests are being kiiled in a number of ways, with climate-change-enabled pests & wildfire probably (WAG) killing more trees now than mere woodchip conglomerates or corporate ag. There is tho an interesting coincidence of most active deforestation & fastest warming.. http://earlywarn.blogspot.com.au/2010/0 ... osses.html
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Ben D » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:23 pm

brainpanhandler » Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:06 pm wrote:Ben,

You know what it proves. (it was very thoughtful of you to provide such a time saving shortcut. Sadly it's not useful for the reading comprehension challenged) And what it proves is precisely why I absolutely won't go around and around with you anymore. I've got better things to waste my time on, like, I don't know, sorting paper clips.

Good day to you, sir!

Fine bph, but if you ever feel the urge in the future to bring up the subject of Solar impact on global temperature in connection with my understaning as you've done, then remember you declined the offer to debate for all to witness.

And good day to you Sir!
There is That which was not born, nor created, nor evolved. If it were not so, there would never be any refuge from being born, or created, or evolving. That is the end of suffering. That is God**.

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