Your Take On The ISIS Phenomenon

[AlicetheKurious]

And I've yet to seen any of the "experts" try to explain how and why all these monuments, artifacts and documents were preserved intact for nearly one and a half millenia under Muslim rule, including very turbulent periods, only to be destroyed after their sovereignty was violated by US-led forces.

[Byrne]

^ Great point, Alice.

Same thing happened in Afghanistan, with the destruction of the Buddhas of Bamiyan in February 2001. These 1500 year old statues were reportedly (at the time) ordered for destruction by 'Taliban militia supreme leader Mulla Mohammad Omar.

Wikipedia states that only two photos exist of Mulla Mohammad Omar, neither of them official, and a picture used in 2002 by many media outlets has since been established to be someone other than him.......,


Look at how nasty these Taliban/ISIS folk are, gotta keep fighting 'em.....

[Elvis]

And gosh, we're just so powerless to stop them! These Devils somehow operate in broad daylight in a country where the skies are dominated 100% by the U.S. Air Force. These Totota pickup trucks and their formidable weapons offer an indomitable defense against the world's largest and most powerful armed forces, so of course we are helpless and can only watch as these priceless treasures are destroyed before our very eyes.

Say WUT?

Just how weird is this gonna fucking GET??

Even when or if the US military acts in good faith (did I just say that?) in this opera, I'll bet the ISIS hordes are getting advance notice from someone. Someone is probably also feeding the US military "deciders" a balanced diet of biased but believable bullshit. Or are they all in on it? What does Obama know and how does he know it? Is the Toyota Motor Corporation collecting product placement fees? Or were they low bidder for this golden marketing opportunity? (If I was buying a truck now, after seeing those hardy Toyotas transiting the dry dusty desert, I'd be thinking, "Toyota!")

But who is it, really, that wants to erase all of that Muslim culture and history by destroying its artworks, relics, books, libraries, museums and architecture? -- and, as we have seen, is able to get away with it? I wonder what Michael Ledeen is doing right now.

[Nordic]

Yeah, and who's always quick with a bulldozer?

[zangtang]

oh, touche!
- he says, looking in vain for the e accent key

[solace]

And I've yet to seen any of the "experts" try to explain how and why all these monuments, artifacts and documents were preserved intact for nearly one and a half millenia under Muslim rule, including very turbulent periods, only to be destroyed after their sovereignty was violated by US-led forces.

Not like it hasn't happened before.

Destruction of heritage
See also: Destruction of early Islamic heritage sites in Saudi Arabia

Saudi Wahhabism is hostile to any reverence given to historical or religious places of significance for fear that it may give rise to 'shirk' (that is, idolatry). As a consequence, under Saudi rule, Medina has suffered from considerable destruction of its physical heritage including the loss of many buildings over a thousand years old.[42] Critics have described this as "Saudi vandalism" and claim that in Medina and Mecca over the last 50 years 300 historic sites linked to Muhammad, his family or companions have been lost.[43] In Medina, examples of historic sites which have been destroyed include the Salman al-Farsi Mosque, the Raj'at ash-Shams Mosque, the Jannat al-Baqi cemetery, and the house of Muhammed.[44]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medina

Yes, Virginia. Some crazy Muslims do bad shit too.

[Searcher08]

And I've yet to seen any of the "experts" try to explain how and why all these monuments, artifacts and documents were preserved intact for nearly one and a half millenia under Muslim rule, including very turbulent periods, only to be destroyed after their sovereignty was violated by US-led forces.

Not like it hasn't happened before.

Destruction of heritage
See also: Destruction of early Islamic heritage sites in Saudi Arabia

Saudi Wahhabism is hostile to any reverence given to historical or religious places of significance for fear that it may give rise to 'shirk' (that is, idolatry). As a consequence, under Saudi rule, Medina has suffered from considerable destruction of its physical heritage including the loss of many buildings over a thousand years old.[42] Critics have described this as "Saudi vandalism" and claim that in Medina and Mecca over the last 50 years 300 historic sites linked to Muhammad, his family or companions have been lost.[43] In Medina, examples of historic sites which have been destroyed include the Salman al-Farsi Mosque, the Raj'at ash-Shams Mosque, the Jannat al-Baqi cemetery, and the house of Muhammed.[44]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medina

Yes, Virginia. Some crazy Muslims do bad shit too.

Next up? The Buddhas of Bamiyan!

[82_28]

Just wait until the christians get radicalized by a bunch of middle eastern upstarts and the absolute destruction they will bring to our holy places.

Just echoing Alice and Nordic showing the absolute absurdity of this destruction campaign. Honestly, I cannot get a clear angle on this as far as from where this is coming from and for what purpose. I tend to look at shit with a mean lean to the esoteric/occult/technofascist reason of intent -- thus complicating things greatly as far as understanding what truly is behind all this.

I remember Nordic brought up the whole KONY thing awhile back and all sorts of kids bought into it I guess. It seems as though KONY whatever the fuck it was went nowhere. But maybe it was a "stress test" on social media to see just how stupid will people get in order to fall into line as far as the "global narrative" of perpetual war???

Obviously I have no idea, but I do know that anyone of conscience and kindness is getting fucked with on all sides -- not just with ISIS. Why is it also so tempting to these "western youth" and christian ex-soldiers via only media? I dunno, but we're definitely getting fucked with. It's as if all the rules of heretofore death and destruction has gone so meta, that it will always be impossible to piece back together.

There's something there though that was expertly made to be missed. I don't like missing what the point of evil fuckers doing what they do at all.

[solace]

Just wait until the christians get radicalized by a bunch of middle eastern upstarts and the absolute destruction they will bring to our holy places.

Just echoing Alice and Nordic showing the absolute absurdity of this destruction campaign. Honestly, I cannot get a clear angle on this as far as from where this is coming from and for what purpose. I tend to look at shit with a mean lean to the esoteric/occult/technofascist reason of intent -- thus complicating things greatly as far as understanding what truly is behind all this.

I remember Nordic brought up the whole KONY thing awhile back and all sorts of kids bought into it I guess. It seems as though KONY whatever the fuck it was went nowhere. But maybe it was a "stress test" on social media to see just how stupid will people get in order to fall into line as far as the "global narrative" of perpetual war???

Obviously I have no idea, but I do know that anyone of conscience and kindness is getting fucked with on all sides -- not just with ISIS. Why is it also so tempting to these "western youth" and christian ex-soldiers via only media? I dunno, but we're definitely getting fucked with. It's as if all the rules of heretofore death and destruction has gone so meta, that it will always be impossible to piece back together.

There's something there though that was expertly made to be missed. I don't like missing what the point of evil fuckers doing what they do at all.

It's NOT That hard to understand if you do some research on the thing. Extremist Salafis are doing what their version of Islam and Allah's will are telling them must be done:destroy idolatry and destroy opposing sects/Shiites. That simple. They've done it before. I don't get what the fucking mystery is all about. And oh yeah, they now have the power and blood lusting drugged up disaffected youth looking for some excitement/real life video massacres to help them. Easy as pie.

And, oh yeah, if the thugs can pick up some loot to fund it all, all the better.

[Searcher08]

I feel more stupid for reading that.
Seriously, that level of so generalised-it-means-diddly-squat analysis and parroted talking points is just poop.
Looking up Wikipedia articles might be seen as pushing the research envelope on a FoxNews forum, here less so.

Meanwhile, Turkey is the place to go to for all your ISIS Medical needs (well as long as you are an ISIS Turk, not an ISIS fighting Kurd)
http://rt.com/news/238713-isis-commander-turkey-hospital/

ISIS commander treated in Turkish hospital ‘like all other citizens’
Published time: March 07, 2015 16:23
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Reuters / Serkan Senturk

Reuters / Serkan Senturk
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Tags
Conflict, Health, Iraq, Military, Syria, Terrorism, Turkey

Authorities in Turkey have confirmed social media reports that an injured Islamic State commander is being treated in a Denizli hospital, saying the militant has every right to receive medical care as he is a Turkish citizen.

The man, identified as Emrah Cakan, has reportedly been recovering in a hospital in Denizli in southwestern Turkey since February 28.

He was among 1,000 Turks, who joined the Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL), and quickly rose to the rank of a senior commander.

Cakan’s treatment “was started upon his own application,” the Denizli governor's office said in a statement.

“The procedural acts concerning his injury were conducted by our border city during his entry to our country and they still continue. And his treatment continues as a part of his right to benefit from health services just like all our citizens,” it added.

Meanwhile, the Kurds, who have been fighting IS for the strategic city of Kobani on the Turkish-Syrian border since September, don’t seem to be as welcome in Turkey’s medical institutions as Islamic State militants.

The International Business Times reported the story of medical student, Esra Yakar, who went to Kobani to treat the wounded in December and received serious head injuries in a jihadist attack.

On her return to Turkey, the young woman was bounced around between hospitals, which led to her losing an eye.

After Yakar was finally hospitalized in Ankara, the police arrested her on terrorism charges.

She was released from prison on Thursday due to poor health, but will still stand trial on April 30.

Read moreISIS attack on Kobani comes from Turkey – Kurds

Turkish Medical Association council member, Seyhmus Gokalp, called Yakar’s arrest an inhumane act, expressing regret that “providing civilian people in Kobani with health services” is considered a crime in his country.

Ankara has been condemned by its NATO allies, including the US and EU, for the lack of desire to join the international effort against the so-called Islamic State, and doing little to prevent militants crossing into Syria and Iraq from Turkey’s territory.

There is "an open-door policy to jihadists in Turkey. So much so that the flight from Istanbul to Gaziantep has been called 'the jihad express',” Marc Pierini, former European Union ambassador to Turkey, is cited as saying by the International Business Times.

Read more3,000 ISIS infiltrators may enter Turkey, plan to attack diplomatic targets – report

Turkish intelligence agencies issued a warning in early February that 3,000 IS militants in the country are preparing terrorist attacks against embassies of the member states of US-led coalition in Ankara, according to the Taraf newspaper.

Ankara refrains from aiding those defending Kobani, due to fears the increased Kurdish military might boost their ambitions for an independent state.

The Kurds have no country of their own, with the Kurdistan region spanning adjacent parts of Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey.

Also, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan used to back the Islamist rebels fighting to topple his Syrian counterpart and strategic rival, Bashar Assad.

[82_28]

Solace wrote:

It's NOT That hard to understand if you do some research on the thing. Extremist Salafis are doing what their version of Islam and Allah's will are telling them must be done:destroy idolatry and destroy opposing sects/Shiites. That simple. They've done it before. I don't get what the fucking mystery is all about. And oh yeah, they now have the power and blood lusting drugged up disaffected youth looking for some excitement/real life video massacres to help them. Easy as pie.

And, oh yeah, if the thugs can pick up some loot to fund it all, all the better.

Yes, yes it is quite hard to understand. Note that I did qualify all that I wrote with my use of "western youth" in quotes in fact. That was my point and reading it again, I feel that I made it. You just missed it. I thought that the image I included would help in my sardonic intent. Another thing is that I can't stand it when I or anyone asks questions and are replied to with a "when are you going to start using your head?" or something to that effect. All I can really say to them is if I wasn't using my head I wouldn't have asked the question at all.

So to sum up:

Hard to understand and not "easy as pie" and very much so a mystery. I wish I had your skills of comprehension, no offense because you know I don't mean that.

[solace]

Solace wrote:

It's NOT That hard to understand if you do some research on the thing. Extremist Salafis are doing what their version of Islam and Allah's will are telling them must be done:destroy idolatry and destroy opposing sects/Shiites. That simple. They've done it before. I don't get what the fucking mystery is all about. And oh yeah, they now have the power and blood lusting drugged up disaffected youth looking for some excitement/real life video massacres to help them. Easy as pie.

And, oh yeah, if the thugs can pick up some loot to fund it all, all the better.

Yes, yes it is quite hard to understand. Note that I did qualify all that I wrote with my use of "western youth" in quotes in fact. That was my point and reading it again, I feel that I made it. You just missed it. I thought that the image I included would help in my sardonic intent. Another thing is that I can't stand it when I or anyone asks questions and are replied to with a "when are you going to start using your head?" or something to that effect. All I can really say to them is if I wasn't using my head I wouldn't have asked the question at all.

So to sum up:

Hard to understand and not "easy as pie" and very much so a mystery. I wish I had your skills of comprehension, no offense because you know I don't mean that.

Hey look, I can't help it if you " tend to look at shit with a mean lean to the esoteric/occult/technofascist reason of intent -- thus complicating things greatly as far as understanding what truly is behind all this."

I was just trying to offer some factual stuff because often, facts can help explain stuff like why religious people who hate other sects kill them and destroy their stuff and those who reject idolatry blow up a rival sect's blasphemous idols when they have the chance to do so just like they have done in the past. As far as "western youth,' crazy shit, I would offer that the numbers probably prove they do it all the time in numbers far greater than those paltry few who joined ISIS (think gangs and their violent horror.)

[82_28]

You know, I'm not going to argue with you. I don't believe it is "easy as pie". I have long studied religious extremism for I guess probably going on 25 years. I understand the aspect of extremists and the sects and the cults and the political reasons/ramifications, old hatreds etc.

What I don't understand is this. I would like to know for the edification of all of us what the motives are, not the ones we are given by the media. I would like to understand what the future has in store. Personally, I think that the explanation of religious extremism is a ruse, thus I would like to know why it is I think that. Easy as pie. Really that's it. Also, if you have a source or link to where you get your magic wand of wisdom, I would love it if you would share it.

PM me with the link if you don't want it to be found far and wide.

[Iamwhomiam]

I have no doubt western or western-paid provocateurs are in play. But to disregard the true radicalism of those desiring one large Caliphate would be ignorant at best.

Sure, many of our veterans have become aware of the horrors of war or their own horrid wartime actions, and some live their lives out in hell, tormented by their dirty deeds, while others are able to justify their actions and live on happily ever after. But not one has lived their entire life under warring conditions, as many have in areas of the middle east. I cannot fault those who desire a Caliphate, only their means of achieving it.

And no one can deny how very radical their actions would be in destroying ancient cultural sites were no westerners involved in any way. It is an inquisition by another name being conducted by another religion, this time. We cannot deny the power struggle now engaged by different sects to become the dominant decider of interpretation of the Koran. So there's much going on and many are involved, all seeking their own advantage.

[82_28]

Here's a good one about how murky this all is. It happens to be the top post ATM at boingboing:

Gilad Lotan has spotted some pretty sophisticated fake-news generation, possibly from Russia, and possibly related to my weird, larval twitterbots, aimed at convincing you that ISIS had blown up a Louisiana chemical factory.

On September 11, 2014, Lotan, a data scientist, started researching a massive, coordinated, and failed hoax to create panic over an imaginary ISIS attack on a chemical plant in Centerville, Louisiana. The hoax included Twitter, Facebook and Wikipedia identities (some apparently human piloted, others clearly automated) that had painstakingly established themselves over more than a month. Also included: fake news stories, an imaginary media outlet called "Louisiana News," and some fascinating hashtag trickery whereby a generic hashtag was built up in Russian Twitter by one set of bots, then, once trending, was handed over to a different set of English-language bots that used it to promote the hoax.

More interesting is the fact that the hoax failed. Lotan shows that Facebook's Edgerank proved to be resistant to gaming using the process employed by the hoax's creator(s); that Twitter clusters can be trumped by real news sources; and that Wikipedia's vigilance was adequate to catching fakesters who create hoax pages.

Lotan has some important thoughts on the future of fake news, hoaxes and political manipulation. One important takeaway from Lotan's analysis is that, despite the energy and technical sophistication of the attack, the hoaxer(s) made some dumb mistakes, like not giving their fake Wikipedian a richer, longer edit history; and not changing the sent-by string on their twitterbots (all the hoax tweets were sent by an app called "mass post" or "mass post2."

Finally, I'm fascinated to see that the bot-tweets were sufaced into real Twitter by long-standing, still-extant, apparently human piloted accounts from Russian Twitter. Are @GelmutKol, @Kiborian and @Galtaca sleeper agents who carry on normal Twitter discourse for years at a time, but every now and again promote botnoise into real Twitter? Are they regular users whose compromised PCs (or stolen passwords) are used to push out messages every now and again? Or are they spectacularly subtle bots themselves, computationally intensive members of the botherd who pass among humans?

Did this stuff kick off in Russia? Or was it a false flag from non-Russians using Russian Twitter to point attention overseas? Or a Russian firm working for hire on behalf of foreigners? Why try to create gwot-panics on Sept 10? It's head-spinningly futurismic.


There’s a very important lesson learned here, crystallized by the network graph to the left. No matter how much volume, how many tweets, or Facebook likes a campaign generates, if the messages aren’t embedded within existing networks of information flow, it will be very difficult for information to actually propagate. In the case of this hoax on Twitter, the malicious accounts are situated within a completely different network. So unless they attain follows from “real accounts,” they can scream as loud as they’d like, still no one will hear them. One way to bypass this is by getting your topic to trend on Twitter, increasing visibility significantly.

Social networked spaces make it increasingly difficult for a bot or malicious account to look like a real person’s account. While a profile may look convincingly real — having a valid profile picture, posting human readable texts, and sharing interesting content — it is hard for them to fake their location within the network; it is hard to get real users to follow them. We can clearly see this in the image above: the community of Russian bots are completely disconnected from any other user interacting with the hashtag.

The same principle holds for Wikipedia, which is even harder to game as it is easy to identify those accounts who are not really connected to the larger editing community. The more time you spend making relevant edits and the more trusted your account becomes the more authority you gain. One can’t simply expect to appear, make minor edits on three pages, and then put up a page detailing a terror act without seeming suspicious.

As our information landscapes evolve over time, we’ll see more examples of ways in which people abuse and game these systems for the purpose of giving visibility and attention to their chosen topic. Yet as more of our information propagation mechanisms are embedded within networks, it will become harder for malicious and automated accounts to operate in disguise. Whoever ran this hoax was extremely thorough, yet still unable to hack the network and embed the hoax within a pre-existing community of real users.

http://boingboing.net/2015/03/08/imagin ... louis.html