The Conspiracy Conspiracy

[Wombaticus Rex]

The point made by the Original Poster is an interesting one that merits more exploration: what do certain conspiranoids have against the Enlightenment?

The idea that the dread Illuminati was pretty much just a pro-science, anti-monarchy cheerleading squad seems lost on today right wingers.

...

I could go on, but you get the picture. I'm basically saying, maybe - wrongheaded though they are on so many subjects, like their cowardly obsession with race - they are nevertheless RIGHT to be deeply concerned and skeptical about the general, long-term civilizational direction that we're headed in.

J

A worthy question and a great riff; I very much agree, and it's a big part of why I'm not having an autoimmune reaction to Reactionaries. There's a lot of noise but it's a signal worth monitoring.

I also think it ties back in nicely with the Jim Marrs slander upthread about "believing our own bullshit" -- because culturally, we really cannot reckon with the reality that all our comfort, luxury and success is just the result of technology and resources, not ideology. Communism and Capitalism brought two empires to the exact same place, same modalities of control, same infrastructures of containment.

Despite that, we're still diagnosing our problems through that same ideology lens, still trying to score rhetorical points on behalf of dead men. It is reflexive.

Weiner's cybernetic loops could have been a great tool for self-realization if his millieu had only trusted normal people with the power to shape their own normal lives. That was never really in the cards, though.

So perhaps there is a very important truth behind the reflexive distrust of conspiracies: on some innate level, we know it doesn't matter what that small, powerful cabal believes.

The nature of their form, not content of their ideology, is what drives outcomes.

And those outcomes are never simply "good."

[brainpanhandler]

I could go on, but you get the picture. I'm basically saying, maybe - wrongheaded though they are on so many subjects, like their cowardly obsession with race - they are nevertheless RIGHT to be deeply concerned and skeptical about the general, long-term civilizational direction that we're headed in. J

Of course they are. So what? Heidegger was seduced by National Socialism. How was he blinded?

Most of us just don't have the physical, mental and emotional resources to live a life of contemplation. So something else will have to do.

[brainpanhandler]

I also think it ties back in nicely with the Jim Marrs slander upthread about "believing our own bullshit" -- because culturally, we really cannot reckon with the reality that all our comfort, luxury and success is just the result of technology and resources, not ideology. Communism and Capitalism brought two empires to the exact same place, same modalities of control, same infrastructures of containment.

Not ideology? Sure.

But the reason Communism and Capitalism brought two empires to the exact same place, same modalities of control, same infrastructures of containment is because in practice they were the same thing. Communism on large enough scales becomes State capitalism. The government becomes one central corporation. It's not communism per se at all. is it?

[Wombaticus Rex]

But the reason Communism and Capitalism brought two empires to the exact same place, same modalities of control, same infrastructures of containment is because in practice they were the same thing. Communism on large enough scales becomes State capitalism. The government becomes one central corporation. It's not communism per se at all. is it?

We certainly appear to be saying the same thing, to me. Few ideologies differ much in practice!

[tapitsbo]

My inclination is to vote useful idiot because I believe most people are not very good liars and actors. I think I probably underestimate people and/or overestimate my ability to spot bullshit. Or maybe he's just played this role for so long he has forgotten he's wearing a costume. He got fooled by his own bullshit. Or maybe he's just a well practiced snake oil salesman/cia psyops tool. If you get sick of the video skip to 22:13 to watch the ad to see how you can get a bottle of Super Male Vitality. The liberal elite have been poisoning you with estrogen mimickers!

I haven't read or watched any media authored by Jones or Marrs (maybe I looked at Jones' forum a bit around ten years ago.)

But is the claim here that elites aren't poisoning us with estrogen mimickers, among other things?

[brainpanhandler]

But is the claim here that elites aren't poisoning us with estrogen mimickers, among other things?

Well, no. The claim is that the liberal, socialist, elite cabal intent on destroying democracy, freedom, the American way and maleness itself is not poisoning us with estrogen mimickers. Drink your soy milk boys.

I don't know that they aren't. But I ain't taking Alex Jones' word for it.

Obligatory youtube:



Edit: It's Jones' ad. But I wouldn't take Marrs' word either.

[BrandonD]

I also think it ties back in nicely with the Jim Marrs slander upthread about "believing our own bullshit" -- because culturally, we really cannot reckon with the reality that all our comfort, luxury and success is just the result of technology and resources, not ideology.

It seems to me we can easily reckon with that reality, if we can also reckon with the reality that comfort, luxury, and success are not proper human ideals. They are instead buffers we've developed to tolerate our imbalanced way of life.

Like a man who ingests poison that warps his frame, and instead of refraining from the poison, he builds crutches to help him walk in his crippled form.

If those things are coping mechanisms rather than ideals, then this deification of our technological culture seems to me very shallow and superficial.

This is speaking from personal experience, I've seen that my own desire for comfort, luxury, and success derives from my dissatisfaction with the life I've chosen.

Perhaps we are saying the same thing. I can't really tell these days