Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

[Luther Blissett]

Now that it's been revealed that the shooter had profiles on Grindr, Jack'd, and Adam4Adam, and that this information did not come from Rita Katz but from members of the gay community who had been contacted by the shooter, the element of this story that I'm finding most difficult to believe is that he even traveled to the Middle East. When did that happen, where did he go, and what is the proof?

[divideandconquer]

Well, I agree with most everything backtoiam said so suspend me if you must, because if I can't post what I really think there is no point in posting at all.

We're all here because we're skeptical and suspicious of officialdom, of authority, and because we refuse to accept everything at face value, yet we're supposed to trust/believe everything that people post on an anonymous Internet forum. I'm not claiming anyone is lying or is a sock puppet because I've been accused of being a sock puppet and I've posted personal accounts but do I expect you to trust me 100%? Do I expect my personal account to change/influence your opinion? Absolutely not, because although I consider personal stories, I do not allow them to change my opinion without verification. It would be hypocritical of me to ask you to accept everything I say at face value when I accept nothing at face value. You don't know me just as I don't know anyone on here.

But, I get it. The challenge of the anonymous internet forums is finding a way to strike a balance between trust and skepticism. Constantly accusing each other of being sock puppets will not work, however, bullying people for differing opinions is just as bad, if not worse, yet no one was suspended for bullying backtoiam for pointing out blatant inconsistencies, lies, etc. of the mainstream narrative.

In other words, I don't have any first hand information, but if I did, I would not expect it to change your opinion simply because you have no way of verifying my story. While it's true we shouldn't call each other sock puppets, or liars, it's also true we shouldn't use one person's personal account to silence someone's opinion...again, because there is no way to verify that account, not to mention, just because people are hurt and/or killed doesn't eliminate the very real possibility that some or most of this was staged, planned, etc. All I know for certain is that I do NOT trust the official story. Beyond that I know nothing.

[Elihu]

we're all here because we're skeptical and suspicious of officialdom, of authority

I'm not sure I agree with that ; )

[seemslikeadream]

Lawmakers in US Filed More Than 200 Anti-LGBT Bills Prior to Massacre

Florida leads the U.S. in mass shootings in 2016

[Novem5er]

I only called backtoiam a prick, among other things, for his complete lack of respect for the families and friends of the victims. How did he disrespect them? By boldly claiming that they simply didn't exist. But then again, he backtracked and said "I never said nobody got shot", but then again, he clearly said regarding blood-witnesses and victims "they don't exist".

Personal account time: my cousin has been balling her eyes out and having panic attacks because one of her good friends is/was in an Orlando hospital and underwent surgery to repair a gunshot wound. Fake? Not to me it isn't. Not to her. Not to the guy's friends and family. I thought about linking to Facebook profiles and putting up pictures of tweets and posts, hell I could freaking call her and record our conversation. But why? To appease the morbid, selfish desire for people to have strangers provide first-person evidence of their violence? No, I wont open up my cousin to public trolling for that.

I'm all for skepticism. That's why I'm here! It's possible that Omar was a state-actor, a brainwashed tool, that the NWO is trying to drum up support for more gun control (by attacking Liberal gays?!! Haha, right). Question the circumstances and the motives, for sure.

But to clearly state the the victims aren't REAL because you haven't seen enough blood on the streets?!! Fuck him and fuck anyone who would erase real grief and real suffering and real tragedy because they didn't get their snuff fix.

[SonicG]

Lawmakers in US Filed More Than 200 Anti-LGBT Bills Prior to Massacre

Florida leads the U.S. in mass shootings in 2016

Do the math works for me...We do not have the whole story yet, but there is enough fodder, enough tight intelligence agency connections to make this a truly important moment. I would hope that the best way to honor these poor sacrificed humans is to shine a little light on the true situation...
Well the repressed gay angle seems to be sticking...those NYPD sweatshirts!

[divideandconquer]

I only called backtoiam a prick, among other things, for his complete lack of respect for the families and friends of the victims. How did he disrespect them? By boldly claiming that they simply didn't exist. But then again, he backtracked and said "I never said nobody got shot", but then again, he clearly said regarding blood-witnesses and victims "they don't exist".

Personal account time: my cousin has been balling her eyes out and having panic attacks because one of her good friends is/was in an Orlando hospital and underwent surgery to repair a gunshot wound. Fake? Not to me it isn't. Not to her. Not to the guy's friends and family. I thought about linking to Facebook profiles and putting up pictures of tweets and posts, hell I could freaking call her and record our conversation. But why? To appease the morbid, selfish desire for people to have strangers provide first-person evidence of their violence? No, I wont open up my cousin to public trolling for that.

I'm all for skepticism. That's why I'm here! It's possible that Omar was a state-actor, a brainwashed tool, that the NWO is trying to drum up support for more gun control (by attacking Liberal gays?!! Haha, right). Question the circumstances and the motives, for sure.

But to clearly state the the victims aren't REAL because you haven't seen enough blood on the streets?!! Fuck him and fuck anyone who would erase real grief and real suffering and real tragedy because they didn't get their snuff fix.

I'm not trying to single you out. In my experience, you appear to be open minded, and to think things through before responding. In other words, I'd be very surprised to find out that you are not who you present yourself to be. So let me try to clarify what I'm trying to say using myself as an example.

I posted about my daily battle with Morgellons over the last decade. It's not recognized by officialdom, therefore there are some who are skeptical, especially since the symptoms seem to indicate some form of geoengineering...some form of synthetic life, synthetic biology embedding itself into flesh and blood. It's creepy and far out but I can testify that it's very real. However, my individual testimony doesn't amount to much on an anonymous forum. In other words, if you do not believe that Morgellons is real, or the product of geoengineering and/or some type of diabolical lab experiment I wouldn't expect my declaration to change your opinion. Not that you won't take it into consideration; but because you haven't seen it for yourself, or because you don't know me personally, I wouldn't expect you to accept it as evidence for the existence of Morgellons.

Once again, I'm very inclined to believe you, and I will take it into consideration when I try to figure out what's going on, but it doesn't really change my overall opinion that this was a psychological operation that may have involved, at the very least, some fakery. I do believe people were injured and that people died, but on the scale they reported? No way.

I thought it interesting that in 2012, Obama limited access to SS death records for three years, supposedly due to identity theft. I don't believe that's the real reason because after my father's death, I tried to use my father's credit cards to purchase some things for my mother--not more than a day or two later-- and they were disabled. We did not report his death to anyone at that time, but the funeral home reported his death to Soc Sec right away and they didn't waste any time.

Researchers Wring Hands as U.S. Clamps Down on Death Record Access

[Nordic]

I do believe people were injured and that people died, but on the scale they reported? No way.

And why is that? See, this makes no sense to me.

If you're gonna ruthlessly slaughter some people, why fake anything? Why does it make any sense at all to NOT leave a big pile of bodies if you are terrorizing and psychologically brutalizing people in the first place?

The whole way this sort of OP works -- if it is an op, like 9/11 clearly was -- is to literally DO THE UNTHINKABLE. Could you please explain the logic in killing just a few and pretending to kill more, or whetever the thinking is behind this notion?

History proves that the standard MO for these kinds of things, from JFK to RFK to 9/11 to Colosio to San Bernadino is that you ACTUALLY KILL THE PEOPLE and have carefully set up a PATSY or PATSIES to take the blame.

[stickdog99]

And our corporate propaganda outlets all breathlessly reported the "911 call in which the shooter pledged his allegiance to ISIS."

And nobody asks for a transcript or even a timestamp. And nobody asks anything about what the emergency department's response to this 911 call was. And nobody tries to locate or interview the those at the emergency department who took this 911 call. And nobody asks why a Shiite Muslim who supposedly claimed family connections to Hezbollah, a Shiite organization that is a bitter enemy of the so-called Islamic State, would pledge his allegiance to the Sunni Islamic State.

But our corporate propaganda outlets have no problem with unquestioningly releasing bizarre FBI released details about what are now termed multiple 911 calls. (How many? When? From where?)

Hank Shaw, head of the FBI's field office in Boston, said in a statement to NBC News that "During one of the 911 calls between the operator and Omar Mir Seddique Mateen, Mateen made a reference to the Tsarnaev brothers by calling them his 'homeboys.' At this point in time, all evidence collected to date shows no connection between Mateen and the Tsarnaev brothers."

[Nordic]

Yeah I think i laughed audibly when I read about the alleged 911 calls.

[brainpanhandler]

I do believe people were injured and that people died, but on the scale they reported? No way.

Could you please explain the logic in killing just a few and pretending to kill more, or whetever the thinking is behind this notion?

No shit, right?

Fuck you Backtoiam. Fuck you Elihu. Fuck you agent dipshit. And fuck you divideandconquer.

[semper occultus]

And nobody asks why a Shiite Muslim who supposedly claimed family connections to Hezbollah, a Shiite organization that is a bitter enemy of the so-called Islamic State, would pledge his allegiance to the Sunni Islamic State.

...that was a holy crap moment....but are we sure about this...

Local news is now reporting that the Orlando murderer was connected to an extremist Sunni imam in Orlando who did indeed preach hatred towards homosexuals at his extreme Timbuktu Seminary in town. This preacher was known to law enforcement officials and had a record.

A few months ago, the Husseini Islamic Center in nearby Sanford, Florida hosted an Iranian Shi'ite Cleric who called for the death sentence for all homosexuals.
 
While there is no known connection between this individual (who is from a Sunni community) and this Shi'ite mosque

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.724728

[seemslikeadream]

all evidence collected to date shows no connection between Mateen and the Tsarnaev brothers.

except for the prior FBI interest

[brekin]

I agree staging terror seems silly when those who deal in it don't seem to hold human life all that sacred, so why put on a production?

But I think the lesson in all these shootings comes down to, hate versus love.

Perhaps people should consider which they are posting out of now?

If it is hate, then it seems the terror, regardless of who was responsible, was effective.

[Novem5er]

I'm not trying to single you out. In my experience, you appear to be open minded, and to think things through before responding. In other words, I'd be very surprised to find out that you are not who you present yourself to be. So let me try to clarify what I'm trying to say using myself as an example.

I posted about my daily battle with Morgellons over the last decade. It's not recognized by officialdom, therefore there are some who are skeptical, especially since the symptoms seem to indicate some form of geoengineering...some form of synthetic life, synthetic biology embedding itself into flesh and blood. It's creepy and far out but I can testify that it's very real. However, my individual testimony doesn't amount to much on an anonymous forum.

I agree. Anonymous people on the Internet don't exactly exude legitimacy. People do fake things. People lie. People troll. We have to take everything we read as a grain of salt.

I'm not asking backtoiam, or anyone else, to believe my personal account, BUT when they cite the LACK of personal accounts as "evidence" that the violence is fake . . . well, we can see the circular logic.

It wasn't backtoiam's questioning that I find offensive, it was his absolute certainty that it was fake and that people didn't exist that pissed me off. He already made up his mind and demanded bloody proof to change it. It was his callous dismissal of what evidence there was because there wasn't enough of it, it had poor lighting, and it wasn't bloody enough. And then there is the sheer stupidity about it.

As others are saying above, if you're willing to kill a dozen people, why not 49?! It's easier just to actually do it, then to do it on a smaller scale and fake the rest. It's just a ridiculous line of thinking, especially when it literally diminishes what we all are actually fighting for: human dignity.

I read a story where the father of one of the Sandy Hook victims actually flew down to meet with some of the Crisis Actor Conspiracy people. He brought family photos. He brought a death certificate. He brought everything he could to try and prove that his son existed. That his life was real and that his father's grief was real. Why did the father feel so compelled to do that? I don't know. I lost my mother-in-law to gun violence not two years back. It was terrible. My wife and I are still recovering emotionally. If someone just told me that it was fake?! It'd eat at me, too. One person I could just brush off, but when its thousands of internet trolls? It's just wrong.