The Church of Mateen Dunnit: A Challenge to the Faithful

[brekin]

This is exactly what I suspected, but I am still hoping to be surprised. Please post any new information, or any info I've missed, that actually constitutes a response to the requests in the OP.

Thanks again.

[82_28]

Hahaha. Mac, are you seriously going there?

[stickdog99]

witness says "never a pause in the shooting" but does not describe the shooter

[MacCruiskeen]

Thanks, stickdog. No description, as you say. But at a rough count, that very short video included at least six edits.

Are the media editing out all and any descriptions of the shooter(s) given by actual eyewitnesses?.

[Karmamatterz]

Are the media editing out all and any descriptions of the shooter(s) given by actual eyewitnesses?.

Why don't YOU contact the plethora of media companies out there and ask them for yourself for crying out loud? You're screaming at your fellow RI brethren who come to this site because it's one of the few places that bizarro crazy ideas can be shared without having people go full bore nutso. Errrrr.....well, we WISH it was like that.

You're being way out of line and being so disrespectful and a complete hypocrite it's just turning into a pissing match that YOU want to win when logically NOBODY on this board can win.

So get off your ass and personally visit each law enforcement agency and ask for all the records and reports available. Then sift through it all and give us a full report. Oh...wait, what I thought. You don't want to do that you just want to bitch and throw tantrums claiming we're all stupid. Even when you have valid points or ask pertinent questions you come off like a total asshole.

You scream and rant about nobody coming up with eye witness reports. You belittle others who quote the media or make generalizations they read from the media. But when YOU want to make a generalization about info you read from the media it's just peachy and a-ok. Which is why I asked early in your thread what proof do you have that Mateen was bisexual? Could care less if he was or not, but you claim he was and that he was also a good loving father. You're such a hypocrite and so wrong for your rants at others then making the weak statement about his sexuality and his parental character. Neither of which you provided anything remotely strong as proof.

NOBODY on this board has all the answers or even a fraction of them. How on Earth do you suppose they would? Are you actually that naive that you think anonymous folks on some Internet forum can actually play detective and provide information that would be accepted in a U.S. court of law? I don't think you're dense, but hyped up on your own ego and just incredibly naive. Get a grip dude. We've heard enough of your screeching accusations and name calling.

There is a point where tension and disagreements create an atmosphere that is competitive and challenging. More ideas and productive dialogue can result from that. Your approach is not that. It would seem you get off on screeching at others and seeing your written tantrums on this board, as if it's going to elevate your status as a truth seeker. Perhaps you should write your own blog or start your own BBS where you're the star and can scream all day long...into your own echo chamber.

[MacCruiskeen]

By god, the terror is palpable. Hence the rage. This is a very instructive thread.

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Nine hours on, and still only one or two relevant and rational and polite responses to the OP.

And still no eyewitness description of the shooter.

[stickdog99]

This guy does not describe the shooters, but calls them "they".

[brekin]

By god, the terror is palpable. Hence the rage.
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Nine hours on, and still only one relevant and rational (and polite) response to the OP (stickdog's)
And still no eyewitness description of the shooter.

Terror? Rage? Maybe you are laying the hyperbole on a little deep on top of your conspiracy christmas list?

[FourthBase]

Are the media editing out all and any descriptions of the shooter(s) given by actual eyewitnesses?.

Why don't YOU contact the plethora of media companies out there and ask them for yourself for crying out loud? You're screaming at your fellow RI brethren who come to this site because it's one of the few places that bizarro crazy ideas can be shared without having people go full bore nutso. Errrrr.....well, we WISH it was like that.

You're being way out of line and being so disrespectful and a complete hypocrite it's just turning into a pissing match that YOU want to win when logically NOBODY on this board can win.

So get off your ass and personally visit each law enforcement agency and ask for all the records and reports available. Then sift through it all and give us a full report. Oh...wait, what I thought. You don't want to do that you just want to bitch and throw tantrums claiming we're all stupid. Even when you have valid points or ask pertinent questions you come off like a total asshole.

You scream and rant about nobody coming up with eye witness reports. You belittle others who quote the media or make generalizations they read from the media. But when YOU want to make a generalization about info you read from the media it's just peachy and a-ok. Which is why I asked early in your thread what proof do you have that Mateen was bisexual? Could care less if he was or not, but you claim he was and that he was also a good loving father. You're such a hypocrite and so wrong for your rants at others then making the weak statement about his sexuality and his parental character. Neither of which you provided anything remotely strong as proof.

NOBODY on this board has all the answers or even a fraction of them. How on Earth do you suppose they would? Are you actually that naive that you think anonymous folks on some Internet forum can actually play detective and provide information that would be accepted in a U.S. court of law? I don't think you're dense, but hyped up on your own ego and just incredibly naive. Get a grip dude. We've heard enough of your screeching accusations and name calling.

There is a point where tension and disagreements create an atmosphere that is competitive and challenging. More ideas and productive dialogue can result from that. Your approach is not that. It would seem you get off on screeching at others and seeing your written tantrums on this board, as if it's going to elevate your status as a truth seeker. Perhaps you should write your own blog or start your own BBS where you're the star and can scream all day long...into your own echo chamber.

[MacCruiskeen]

Thanks, stickdog. Yes, the eyewitness says "they" and so does the interviewer. But I think it might be that "gender-neutral 'they'", rather than a plural. (Of course the interviewer doesn't bother to ask the witness to clarify.)

And still no description.

[Nordic]

So that's a no, then, so far. Nothing but spluttering and handwaving and one outraged demand that the thread be closed. (Why such fear?)

No eyewitness has identified the shooter as Omar Mateen or even described the shooter even vaguely. And we still don't even know if the shooter was masked. Still, early days yet. Something may yet turn up. Keep the faith, parishioners, if you absolutely must. But post the evidence too, if you can find any.
Thank you.

This guy saw the shooter walk in and start shooting people. I'd say he would of probably said the person was masked if he was so. As the identification of the shooter was said to be Mateen very quickly after the shooting, it would be pretty obvious if this eyewitness disagreed with that assessment when he was interviewed.

Orlando nightclub survivor: Mateen was 'shooting people like they were animals'
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/pul ... story.html

Selvin Dubon was eager to see his two friends have a good time with him last weekend, so he encouraged everyone to go to the Pulse nightclub.
Dubon was having fun with Joel Rayon Paniagua and Juan Chavez Martinez, and the group was getting ready to leave at about 2 a.m. Sunday.
"We were dancing and they announced that in 15 minutes they were closing the club, so [Joel] decided to go to the bathroom. I told him, 'Don't take too long in the bathroom,' because we had to leave. That was the last time I ever saw him," Dubon said in Spanish while holding back tears as he recounted the opening moments of shooting spree that would claim the lives of 49 people.

"Juan stayed with me. That is when this guy came in and started shooting like a crazy person."
Dubon saw the shooter, Omar Mateen, but for a moment he wasn't sure it was real.
"I thought the guy was playing around, I thought it was a joke, but when I heard the people start screaming, we all dropped to the ground," Dubon said. "When the bartender screamed, the other people started screaming, 'Let's get out of here.'"

While hovering on the floor, Dubon urged Martinez to get up and try to escape with him.
"Juan did not want to get up. He was scared," Dubon said. "I told Juan, 'We need to get up and leave because this man is going to kill us.'
"Juan said, 'No, because if we get up he will shoot us.' I told him again, 'Let's go. This man is killing everyone.'"

Dubon said he did not see many people running from the club, but that's when he decided it was time to make his escape.
"I crawled toward the exit, which was about 30 feet, and then I stood up and I turned around and at that time the guy had two guns and was shooting at the people laying down on the floor and you could see the bodies [jerk up] as they were getting shot," Dubon said. "... And [Mateen] was laughing like a crazy person and he said, 'Today you are going to die, mother*******.'"

It took Dubon about eight seconds to get to the exit.
He said Mateen moved from the dance floor and through the VIP area near the patio, where he continued to shoot both guns at the same time, while Dubon headed the opposite direction. He also said he never saw anyone trying to take down the gunman.
"He was shooting people like they were animals," Dubon said.

Pulse nightclub shooting survivor went back inside
Dubon finally made his way out a back exit door and ended up on the north side of the club, but his friends were still inside.

"I called Juan on his cell phone to tell him to get out of there, 'He's going to kill you,' and he answered, '¿Donde estas?'" Dubon said of his friend Martinez, who asked in Spanish, 'Where are you?'
"That's all he said and after that there was no response [from Juan.] The [phone] line stayed open … that's when I think he killed him."

Dubon said he could still hear gun shots through Martinez's cell phone because the line was still active. With no response from Martinuez, Dubon then tried calling Paniagua several times, but there was no answer and he left him a voice message telling him to, 'Get out of there because the man is going to kill you.'"
At that point, Dubon thought of his children. The 30-year-old Honduras native who works in Haines City was relieved he would see his children — a 4-year-old girl and 2-year-old boy — again.

Days have passed, but all he can think about now is his friends.
He met Paniagua four years ago while working at a Ramada Inn.
Dubon met Martinez three years ago while working briefly with him at Reunion Resorts in Kissimmee, and the two had become great friends, often doing things together.
"Juan was like my brother," Dubon said.

Dubon has spoken with members of the families of Martinez, a 25-year-old housekeeping supervisor for APDC Services, and Paniagua, a 31-year-old construction worker, several times since.
Words will never provide comfort for their losses of the two men who grew up in Mexico.
"Juan's family calls me, Joel's family calls me," Dubon said, but he still never has the right words.

A compelling story, certainly, which may be true. However, 2 things jump out at me:

1. It doesn't jibe with the official story in that it doesn't say anything about the "uniformed cop" who allegedly engaged "Mateen" in a firefight almost immediately.

2. I've been in a few crowded nightclubs in my time, and it's hard to hear what anyone is saying when they are literally screaming in your face from 8 inches away. How did this guy hear Mateen's savage gleeful shouts of "you're all gonna die"! Or whatever he supposedly said from across a room filled with gunfire and theoretically screaming and shrieking people? Unless somebody shut off the music which seems highly unlikely.

[stickdog99]

"He was a messed up guy with a lot of problems. Just a regular Hispanic guy."

[stickdog99]

I didn't see any of the actual shooters.

[stickdog99]

"My bartender friend suspects he heard two guns going off and there may have been multiple assailants."

[MacCruiskeen]

YouTube title: "Witness saw gunman smile". No. That's not what she says. She says she heard him laugh. We still don't even know if the shooter was masked.

Credit to the interviewer who actually asked her if she saw the gunman, and "What did he look like?". But here's all she offers as a description (or at least it's all the editor gives us of that description):

"He was a messed up guy with a lot of problems. Just a regular Hispanic guy."

Omar Mateen was not Hispanic. And in any case, "a messed up guy with a lot of problems" is not a physical or facial description of anyone. It's an interpretation of the shooter's presumed state of mind. (The interview is in daylight at least one day later, so presumably she had already read and seen the news reports with the Designated Culprit already named by the media.)