DrEvil wrote:Something else: does anyone else find it odd that we currently have two major chemical weapons stories being blamed on Russia and its allies? If I was really paranoid I might think they were laying the groundwork for a major false-flag down the line.
I must say that today NPR and BBC both let guests/correspondents actually suggest that ISIS might have deployed chlorine so Assad could be blamed for a "gas attack,"
RocketMan » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:40 am wrote:Thanks McCruiskeen for still trying at least. This board has a scary liberal-warmonger bent these days. Sad!
Out with the woo, in with the Realpolitik.
Belligerent Savant wrote:Swiss Labs: analysis identified BZ Toxin, which is NOT sourced in Russia. Let's see how this latest reported disclosure will be spun.
BZ was invented by the Swiss pharmaceutical company Hoffman-LaRoche in 1951.
By 1959 the United States Army showed significant interest in deploying it as a chemical warfare agent.
3-Quinuclidinyl Benzilate is synthesized from the methyl ester of benzilic acid by reaction with sodium metal in toluene followed by reaction with 3-quinuclidinol.
streeb wrote:Maybe wise professional insurance against the greater-than-average public failure of this seriously hinky, globe threatening narrative? Even anecdotally, seems to me people are a lot more suspicious about it than usual.
mentalgongfu2 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:06 am wrote:Belligerent Savant, example cited and PMed as to avoid further thread disruption. Carry on, my wayward thread.
http://gulfnews.com/opinion/thinkers/of ... -1.2202581
Official Skripal story beggars belief
The UK’s behaviour has been oddly secretive from the start with Russia being accused of the crime within hours
By Linda S. Heard, Special to Gulf News
Published: 17:24 April 9, 2018
Sadly, the British version of events surrounding the poisoning of a Russian double agent and his daughter appears more like fiction as each day passes.
Are we to seriously believe that a deadly, fast-acting military-grade nerve agent, allegedly ten times more potent than VX gas used to murder the brother of the North Korean leader, that was smeared on a door knob permitted its victims to drive into town before stopping off in a pub and subsequently enjoying a meal in a restaurant before conveniently passing out on a park bench? Not while crossing a busy road, mind you, or while driving.
Is it credible that while a policeman who rushed to the scene was contaminated and hospitalised although a doctor who tended to the comatose pair was not? Interestingly, too, policemen who guarded that door for days sans protective clothing before it was cited as the culprit were apparently unaffected.
The fate of Sergei Skripal’s pet Persian cat and guinea pigs initially raised by Yulia Skripal’s cousin Victoria also raise more questions than answers. The house was searched and sealed but for some strange reason those animals were not checked for contamination for weeks. The guinea pigs died from lack of food and water. The poor cat was in such a “distressed state” it had to be euthanised.
In the early aftermath of the incident, Russian scientist Vladimir Uglev, who once worked to produce nerve agents of a similar type to the one allegedly used as a tool of assassination, said there was no antidote in existence and if the Skripal’s were taken off life support they would die. Other experts have maintained that any survivors would be permanently disabled.
Colonel Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, a former head of the UK’s Chemical, Biological, Radiation and Nuclear Regiment, told the Express that the Novichok class of nerve agents would be absorbed into a person’s blood as soon as they were touched.
“Russia has been branded rogue not only by Britain but also many of its allies in the EU and Nato, which banded together on flimsy supposition without bothering to wait for the kind of evidence that would stand up in a court of law.”
However, the scientists’ appraisals came prior to the multiple miracles. Hallelujah! All three victims have not only survived but are said to be thriving. The stricken policeman has returned to his job. Yulia expects to be discharged from hospital soon and her father is well on the way to a full recovery.
Sky News put this miracle down to the fact that the toxin only penetrated their skin. The British government’s military research facility Porton Down knocked that theory on the head by confirming that the poison did penetrate their bloodstreams.
Likewise, the facility’s chief Gary Aitkenhead contradicted a televised claim made by Britain’s Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson that he’d been told by a Porton Down scientist that the nerve agent in question was produced in Russia. Quick of the mark the BBC censured the offending video while Foreign Office personnel deleted tweets claiming the poison was made in Russia.
The UK’s behaviour has also been oddly secretive from the start. Russia was accused of the crime within hours and was given a 24-hour deadline to respond. Since, Moscow has been kept entirely out of the loop.
JackRiddler » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:58 am wrote:mentalgongfu2 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:06 am wrote:Belligerent Savant, example cited and PMed as to avoid further thread disruption. Carry on, my wayward thread.
I find it bothersome that you said it exists and then don't specify an example. Are you being fair to whomever? Is one example standing in for a trend? Are all potentially guilty? Just speak what you mean.
Salisbury attack: Russian TV's claims about poisoning
By Olga Kuzmenkova
22 April 2018
What has Russian TV been saying about the nerve agent attack and how much of it is true?
On 4 March, Sergei and Yulia Skripal were found collapsed on a bench in Salisbury and it was later confirmed by British authorities that the pair had been poisoned by Novichok, a type of nerve agent.
Mr Skripal is a retired Russian military intelligence colonel who came to the UK after being convicted and gaoled in Russia for spying for the UK.
The findings about his poisoning by Novichok have been verified by an independent investigation carried out by the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW).
Britain, and many other foreign governments, have blamed the Russian state for the attack.
However the events in Salisbury have been labelled a hoax by some presenters and journalists on Russian TV, and several other rumours about how the incident unfolded have been discussed since it took place.
Despite the fact that British authorities are keeping journalists informed of the investigation, Russian talk shows complain about an information vacuum.
The Russian government has denied any involvement in the attack.
BBC Russian spent a few days watching episodes from the two talk shows, Let Them Talk on Russia's First Channel and 60 Minutes on Russia 1, and decided to answer some of their guests' frequently asked questions.
Short presentational grey line
Claim: The nerve agent attack was a hoax.
Verdict: The events in Salisbury have been verified by the OPCW.
TV presenters, including Russia Today journalist Alexander Gurnov, claimed that the entire incident in Salisbury was a hoax.
Mr Gurnov asked: "[Was] there really an assassination attempt? Are they really in a London hospital? Are they really close to death?"
The BBC has reported on eyewitnesses who saw the Skripals and paramedics who were called to the scene.
There were also statements released by the New Scotland Yard police headquarters, and the hospital that treated the pair, that described what happened to them.
The OPCW has said it confirmed "the findings of the United Kingdom relating to the identity of the toxic chemical that was used in Salisbury and severely injured three people".
Alexander Litvinenko at University Hospital in London after being poisoned.Image copyrightGETTY IMAGES
Alexander Litvinenko at University Hospital in London after being poisoned.
It was noted on Russian TV that there are no photos of the victims in hospital.
And this is despite the fact that back in 2006 Alexander Litvinenko, who was also poisoned, was photographed ill in bed after being poisoned.
NHS England issued a statement that said Yulia Skripal has asked for privacy from the media.
Mr Litvinenko, a former officer in the Russian FSB (the main Russian security service) was poisoned in London with radioactive polonium in 2006 and photographed in hospital.
The circumstances surrounding the publication of the photograph are well known, and were written about in the results of the public enquiry into the Litvinenko affair.
The photograph was taken at University Hospital in London, and two days before his death.
He had, by that point, already lost his hair and it was clear that he would not survive; on the same day he dictated a statement to be published after his death.
The idea of taking this photograph came from a friend of Mr Litvinenko's, Alexander Goldfarb.
Mr Litvinenko supported the idea, wanting to tell journalists about his poisoning.
His wife and lawyer were also aware that the press was to receive the photograph from his hospital bed.
Screenshot from Russian TV of a policeman standing near the scene of the Salisbury chemical attack
Short presentational grey line
Claim: It is absurd that the police were standing a few yards from the bench without any kind of protective clothing.
Verdict: Only specialist investigators were required to wear protective clothing.
Anton Tsvetkov said on Let Them Talk that it was "clearly just absurd" that police were standing a few yards away from the scene without protective clothing.
It is true that the police stood by the cordon around the bench, pub, and restaurant were not wearing hazmat suits, or gas masks.
However in the images shown while Mr Tsvetkov was speaking they were standing at a relatively long distance away from the potentially harmful areas.
Nerve agents can poison though inhalation, ingestion or skin contact which is why investigators in Salisbury are wearing full protective clothing and gas masks, wrote Alistair Hay, professor emeritus of environmental toxicology at the University of Leeds.
(Health officials have said that Salisbury residents are safe despite traces of the poison that could still be present in the city.)
The BBC asked Vil Mirzayanov, the man who revealed the existence of Novichok, if the policemen waiting behind the cordon would be in any danger.
Mr Mirzayanov, on 18 April, said: "If A234 agent was used [against the Skripals], the policemen are not in danger. If it was applied to a door handle, nothing bad could happen to those who are standing behind the cordon. [If it is] 5 metres or 10 metres, nothing could happen.
"They [the British and OPCW] said it was A234. A234 agent comes in a form of a pasty liquid; the concentration of its vapour is too low to affect anyone.
"But it is another matter if it gets inside through skin or though digestion," he added.
Mr Tsvetkov also said there was a feeling "that the police only cordon off the street for the cameras".
We know from eyewitness testimony, including from BBC journalists at the scene and government statements, that there were a number of areas cordoned off by the police.
Nine sites have been identified by Department for Environment, Food, and Rural affairs (Defra) as needing specialist cleaning.
Short presentational grey line
Claim: Yulia Skripal has refused to talk to Russian journalists and the BBC reported that she was planning to give a press conference. She will blame Russia for the poisoning.
Verdict: We do not know who she intends to "blame". The BBC has not reported that she was going to give a press conference.
Olga Skabeeva on the TV show 60 Minutes said the BBC had reported on 10 April that Yulia Skripal was planning to give a press conference.
Ms Skabeeva said she (Yulia) is "unlikely to blame London for anything".
The same journalist also noted that: "Doctors have announced that Yulia Skripal doesn't want to meet with Russian journalists, nor Russian representatives.
"We really hope that she is not being pressured, tortured and harassed [into giving these statements] but the press conference is about to start and as soon as it starts everything will fall into place," Ms Skabeeva added.
The claim about the upcoming press conference was repeated by journalist Evgenii Popov on the show 60 Minutes on 11 April.
However the BBC had not reported that Ms Skripal was ever planning to give a press conference.
According to a statement released by the Metropolitan Police on 11 April, Ms Skripal declined to speak with all journalists - Russian and Western.
Ms Skripal said: "For the moment I do not wish to speak to the press or the media".
In the statement she also noted the fact that the Russian Embassy had been in touch, saying: "I have been made aware of my specific contacts at the Russian Embassy who have kindly offered me their assistance in any way they can.
"At the moment I do not wish to avail myself of their services, but, if I change my mind I know how to contact them," she added.
Yulia and Sergei Skripal
Yulia and Sergei Skripal were critically ill for several weeks
Short presentational grey line
Claim: The Skripals' pets were destroyed in an attempt to conceal evidence.
Verdict: According to a Defra statement the two guinea pigs died of dehydration and the cat, which was found in a distressed state, was put down "in the best interests of the animal" by the vet.
Nikolai Dolgopolov, the deputy editor in chief of Russian Gazette, on Let Them Talk said the disappearance of "innocent rabbits, guinea pigs, and kittens" was part of a concerted effort to destroy evidence.
Viktoria Skripal, Yulia's cousin, mentioned it was only after her intervention that British authorities explained the fate of the cat.
It is true that the British authorities announced the fate of the cat and the guinea pigs only after the Russian embassy contacted the Foreign Office.
Defra announced that when a veterinarian came to Mr Skripal's home, the guinea pigs had already died of dehydration, and the cat was in a poor condition.
A statement read: "A decision was taken by a veterinary surgeon to euthanise the animal to alleviate its suffering".
Viktoria Skripal, Yulia's cousin.Image copyrightREUTERS
Viktoria Skripal, Yulia's cousin.
Short presentational grey line
Claim: The British will demolish the pub, restaurant, and Mr Skripal's house. It is obvious this is an effort to destroy the evidence.
Verdict: There is no official commitment to destroying any of these buildings. Defra has recently announced that it will take months for the sites to reopen.
TV host Evgenii Popov said Russia will be labelled as guilty and it would not be possible to prove otherwise because Mr Skripal's house won't exist anymore.
Others on Russian TV have referred to a Daily Mail article that said the house and other buildings in Salisbury will be destroyed.
The article claimed that sources suggested Mr Skripal's £400,000 house in Salisbury "may be demolished to completely expunge traces of the Russian-made Novichok nerve agent".
However official sources have not publicly announced anything specific about the fate of the buildings.
BBC Russian was unable to confirm these reports with the police or Defra.
These official organisations clarified that currently Mr Skripal's house and other premises are still scenes of investigation; afterwards, when the police finish their investigation, specialists will begin the work of making the buildings safe.
A recent Defra statement did not mention whether the house would be destroyed.
Rather, it said that as part of the investigation "meticulous work is required and we expect it will be a number of months before all sites are fully reopened."
Russian talk shows frequently discuss claims that the British authorities intend to destroy evidence.
However in reality British official sources frequently state that police are actively collecting and preserving all traces of evidence.
For example, it has been reported that the investigation has collected over 1350 pieces of evidence, recorded over 5000 hours of camera footage, identified 500 witnesses and already questioned a few hundred people.
The police have also reported that the bench on which the Skripals were found has been removed from the park specifically to preserve it as a possible source of evidence for the investigation.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43 ... ow_twitter
Yulia Skripal’s fiancé linked to security services
Marc Bennetts, Moscow
April 23 2018, 12:01am,
A Russian newspaper claims that Stepan Vikeev, Yulia Skripal’s fiancé, above right, has not been seen since the poisonings last month
The fiancé of Yulia Skripal, who was poisoned by a nerve agent in Salisbury, works at an organisation with links to the Russian security services and has gone into hiding.
Stepan Vikeev, 30, has not been seen since Yulia, 33, and her father, Sergei, 66, a former Russian military intelligence officer, were poisoned last month, the Moskovsky Komsomolets newspaper reported.
Mr Vikeev has not answered Ms Skripal’s calls since she was discharged from hospital and deleted all his social media accounts after the attack, for which the government has blamed Russia.
Mr Vikeev is believed to work at the Institute of Modern Security Problems, a Moscow-based organisation thought to have links to Russia’s security services. The institute is said to be headed by his mother,…
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/skri ... -hgxzds8h2
Yulia Skripal's missing fiance linked to Russian spy services
The Australian-9 hours ago
https://myaccount.news.com.au/sites/the ... =anonymous
RUSSIAN CHEMICAL WEAPONS SCIENTIST RUN OVER BY CAR, BUT SAYS IT WAS AN ACCIDENT
BY DAMIEN SHARKOV ON 4/26/18 AT 8:38 AM
U.S. Expels 60 Russian Officials Over Poisoning Of Former Spy Sergei Skripal
A Russian scientist has been hit by a car on Tuesday, shortly after contradicting the Kremlin and confirming that his nerve agent is what mysteriously hospitalized an ex-Russian spy.
Vladimir Uglev, one of the chemists who developed the so-called Novichok nerve agent for the Soviet Union, has repeatedly said that it was exactly such a substance that poisoned former double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter last month. Uglev has now been hospitalized himself, after a car nearly ran him over near his home.
The driver “100% didn’t do it on purpose,” Uglev told a BBC reporter, who added on Twitter that the scientist is bruised but has no broken bones.
The incident, which apparently took place near Uglev’s Black Sea resort town of Anapa, caught the attention of several independent news outlets in Russia. The first to break the news of the collision was news site The Bell, which reported that a 70-year-old neighbor was behind the wheel.
Uglev told the news outlet he tried running from the car but it caught up with him, forcing him to leap on the hood and hit the windshield to avoid being run over. The retired scientist has insisted that he does not believe the event was some planned conspiracy against him.
The recent dangerous development in Uglev’s life in retirement has piqued the interest of non-state media in Russia, partly because it comes less than a month after he made a series of critical remarks against Russian President Vladimir Putin and his government. He also openly flouted the official explanation many Russian officials gave for the poisoning of Sergey Skripal.
Not only did Uglev confirm that the poison that incapacitated Skripal was a Novichok agent, but he also voiced support for the U.K.’s allegations that Russia produced the substance. He stressed that he did not believe it was possible investigators would find “100 percent proof” of Russia’s guilt, but he said this should not absolve the Kremlin or the Russian security forces.
http://www.newsweek.com/russian-chemica ... ent-901772
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