The Coming War on China

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Re: The Coming War on China

Postby SonicG » Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:36 am

Some more about how Vietnam is already jockeying with China, but depending upon how moribund the US and European economies become, Vietnam will be forced to maintain and forge further links with China to sell what it manages to make...

Vietnam poised to be big post-pandemic winner
Vietnam's 'coronavirus diplomacy' has lent an emergency helping hand to the West that will likely be rewarded in kind after the plague

Through early and efficient border closures, uncharacteristic official transparency and strategic Covid-19 diplomacy, communist-run Vietnam is fast emerging as a likely post-pandemic winner.

For a nation that has long-sought to secure it’s place as a reliable and responsible global actor, the coronavirus outbreak and its minimal impact on Vietnam has presented the nation an opportunity in crisis analysts say it is firmly grasping.

Carl Thayer, emeritus professor at the University of New South Wales in Australia and a recognized Vietnam expert, says that Hanoi was “quick off the mark” in its version of “coronavirus diplomacy”, a gambit China, Taiwan and others have likewise deployed to strategic effect.

Vietnam has recently ramped up medical equipment production and made related donations to countries in Covid-19 need, including to the United States, Russia, Spain, Italy, France, Germany, and the United Kingdom.
The latter five European nations, all grappling to cope with the pandemic, have negotiated strategic partner agreements with Vietnam in recent years, Thayer noted.

US President Donald Trump earlier this month thanked “our friends in Vietnam” in a Twitter post after America received 450,000 protective hazmat suits manufactured in Vietnamese factories owned and operated by US chemical company DuPont.

Vietnam has also donated face masks, hand sanitizers and other Covid-19 containing supplies to medical services in neighboring Cambodian and Laos, countries with which Vietnam shares special relations and where China has recently made inroads and gains.

“The coronavirus pandemic has been a great opportunity for Vietnam to enhance its soft power, as it helped to broadcast Vietnam’s generous behavior toward the international community,” said Alexander Vuving, professor at the Daniel K Inouye Asia-Pacific Center for Security Studies in Honolulu, Hawaii.

...
“Vietnam is a major beneficiary of this diversification as it has proved to be friendly while still cost-effective to firms from the West,” said Vuving. “Vietnam will be, in many cases, their first choice when they look around to find a reliable alternative to the now unreliable Middle Kingdom.

The shift, if indeed on the horizon, couldn’t be better timed for Vietnam. The World Bank forecasts in a worst Covid-19 case scenario that Vietnam’s gross domestic product (GDP) will fall to 1.5% this year, down dramatically from around 7% in recent years.
While this would mark Vietnam’s lowest growth in decades, it will still be much higher than most of its Southeast Asian neighbors, including manufacturing rival Thailand, which is now officially projected to see -5.3% GDP growth in 2020.

Investors clearly see the difference as Vietnam’s bourse has emerged as the region’s best performer this year while several of the region’s other stock markets have tanked in anticipation of Covid-19’s economic damage.

Indeed, some pundits suggest that Vietnam’s economy could bounce back faster than other Southeast Asian states in 2021, especially if the likes of the US, Japan and EU states move en masse to relocate their post-pandemic supply chains out of China and into Vietnam.
https://asiatimes.com/2020/04/vietnam-p ... ic-winner/
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Re: The Coming War on China

Postby dada » Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:28 pm

Trade with China, trade with the West, either way, Vietnam comes out a winner.

--

I have trouble envisioning the corporate exodus of manufacturing out of China 'en masse,' as the article puts it. How much manufacturing can Vietnam carry? There must be a physical limit.

Here's my take: I don't see a war on China in the future. Sabre-rattling, yes, lots of it. That's playing to the base. And games, economic brinksmanship. No one really wants to rock the money ship too hard, though. Of course I could be wrong. World wars do happen.

The way I see it, though, a war on China is a war on consumer culture, a war on wall street and the global markets, a war on the standard of living we've grown accustomed to in the civilized world. People like to buy stuff. Cheap stuff, boutique designer stuff, nice clothes, cool shoes. In Vietnam, Japan, SoKor. In the US, in the EU, in China.

In the US, people have houses filled with all kinds of crap, it's endless. Are they prepared to adjust their very way of life? Because that's what war on China means. I don't think they're willing to do that.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: The Coming War on China

Postby SonicG » Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:54 pm

dada » Wed Apr 22, 2020 4:28 am wrote:
I have trouble envisioning the corporate exodus of manufacturing out of China 'en masse,' as the article puts it. How much manufacturing can Vietnam carry? There must be a physical limit.

No doubt there are limits, especially technically for a manufacturing sector that has mostly focused on clothing and simple durables, but I have lived here now nearly ten years (Saigon) and seen how they have been ramping up with infrastructure (including a way-behind schedule subway), and attracting more technical-oriented companies and factories. Japan, who are helping to pour money into the subway project and much more, are still an important player and will try to push Vietnam away from China...

I do think your point about not rocking the Chinese economic boat being a bulwark against possible war is extremely important. My wife is Japanese and there are virulent anti-Chinese feelings being stirred in Japan with a strong desire to push down China, even through an internal civil war, that doesn't take into account the economic backlash such occurrences would have on the Japanese and world economy. Nonetheless, with the Corona crisis, I think we have to start considering scenarios where the world economy tanks so much that attacking China is a nothing-left-to-lose type of choice.... :(
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Re: The Coming War on China

Postby JackRiddler » Thu Apr 23, 2020 3:55 pm

.

Without a full endorsement of this video, it's a serious perspective. There needs to be a lot of sobering up from the Yellow Peril panic, including on this board. (I guess it needs to be added in this case that is said by me the member, not me the moderator.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbRRzJXNCg8

i mean the confrontation is fucking insane.

US ramps up China tension as warships enter South China Sea
USS America assault ship and USS Bunker Hill missile cruiser enter contested waters

https://gulfnews.com/world/asia/us-ramp ... 7498681601


Following is from 2018, I know.

The Pentagon is planning for war with China and Russia — can it handle both?
By: Aaron Mehta   January 30, 2018

https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/20 ... ndle-both/


I wonder what the answer is, given their easy time in Afghanistan.

Also, this exchange from the Main Corona thread seems to be appropriate for continuation here:

Wombaticus Rex » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:40 pm wrote:We are in "AN OPEN GLOBAL CONFRONTATION WITH CHINA" and have been for decades. China figured prominently into the election of Bill Clinton; it was during that administration that "Unrestricted Warfare" was compiled, completed and published.

Chinese businesses are not neutral companies, they are extensions of a military state with military goals. This is a reflection of post-WWI and WWII US foreign policy, which was run by men eager to sell us out for personal gain. Controlling and compromising the US supply chain and economy was one of them, and we're quite far along down that path, as this ongoing disaster has made increasingly clear. This was enabled by our purported leaders, who profited handsomely along the way.

The notion that war is avoidable is a hippie lie, and a dumb one. World peace was a side effect of American military and economic supremacy. As brutal and gruesome as US hegemony has been, especially for those who would oppose it, the future of global resource wars with an expanding population and diminishing resources will be far worse.

Cheers.



JackRiddler » Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:36 pm wrote:On WRex post above: that's a fuckload of story about disparate elements ranging over 80 years that can't be refuted or confirmed in the hypercompressed form you throw it out there. We'll do the bibliography in some other thread. Or have you written a proper version you could link?

But as for the last bit:

Wombaticus Rex » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:40 pm wrote:The notion that war is avoidable is a hippie lie, and a dumb one. World peace was a side effect of American military and economic supremacy. As brutal and gruesome as US hegemony has been, especially for those who would oppose it, the future of global resource wars with an expanding population and diminishing resources will be far worse.

Cheers.


Leaving aside the claim that there has been a period of "world peace" under US hegemony, your scenario points to the end of civilization and likely species extinction by spiraling rounds of moronically self-destructive warfare. It's not and cannot any more be for "resources," since its effect is to destroy them and accelerate their depletion. You suggest it is weak ("hippie") to argue that avoidance of war is therefore the rational and moral choice. This maneuver swaps the common denial of the horror for the display of a superior will that can see things at their most hopeless. By calling terminal war inevitable, do you become the strongest and smartest pile of bones here?

.


To continue in that vein: Sorry, just not biting on it.

You want the real goddamn world-ending threat, my little old hippiehead gets more excited about this stuff:

Wildlife destruction 'not a slippery slope but a series of cliff edges'
New study finds ocean ecosystems likely to collapse in 2020s and land species in 2040s unless global warming stemmed

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... liff-edges


There will be no battle for securing the remainder of the resources! ("Resources.")

Any battle will only mean their swifter exhaustion.

We are past the part so endearingly called an "endgame." This is already game over, put it back in the box and make up some new rules, or die. Imminently.

You for mutual planetary suicide? Okayfine, just say so. How doggedly realist!

But let's stop pretending there is any rational course other than genuine cooperative convergence on mitigating and reversing the extinction event. Or that the 17th through 20th centuries didn't already serve to disprove the utility of 16th century geopolitics.

It "applies" only in the most demented sense of what very sick psychopaths of the ruling classes, who at their height of influence often have no more than 10-20 years of their long lives left to live, define as their "self-interest," because they don't understand their own souls and cannot let go and enjoy the awesome gifts life gave them.

We are not obligated to view the life-game in their terms.

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Re: The Coming War on China

Postby SonicG » Fri Apr 24, 2020 3:58 am

I think we can be against China bashing and be for bashing a rising imperial power to some degree. China is rushing towards a heap of dead bodies piled up over the last century or so of Technosphere Domination to try to grab the last few ripe apples before the whole stinking pile collapses...I was thinking if oil stays at 5 USD/barrel, where the Gulf States can apparently still turn a profit, and China manages to start ramping up production and oil consumption, they will be big winners. The US cannot help but flail and falter, no way out of their economic tailspin, even without further waves of the virus ~ and then the real guns will come out for China.
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Re: The Coming War on China

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Apr 24, 2020 6:14 am

SonicG » Fri Apr 24, 2020 2:58 am wrote:I think we can be against China bashing and be for bashing a rising imperial power to some degree. China is rushing towards a heap of dead bodies piled up over the last century or so of Technosphere Domination to try to grab the last few ripe apples before the whole stinking pile collapses...I was thinking if oil stays at 5 USD/barrel, where the Gulf States can apparently still turn a profit, and China manages to start ramping up production and oil consumption, they will be big winners. The US cannot help but flail and falter, no way out of their economic tailspin, even without further waves of the virus ~ and then the real guns will come out for China.


I see all this. I like how you focus it, also, through the concept of technosphere domination rather than the (assuredly real) other concept of one system's particularly totalitarian and inherent tyranny.

With the additional caveat about the last part that, of course, there can be no winners if "China manages to start ramping up production," especially not on the basis of continued oil or hydrocarbon consumption, with or without further growth in the rate of consumption. No winners beyond an alreadly foreclosed historical short term and within the framework of games that are already over.

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Re: The Coming War on China

Postby SonicG » Fri Apr 24, 2020 7:23 am

JackRiddler » Fri Apr 24, 2020 5:14 pm wrote:
With the additional caveat about the last part that, of course, there can be no winners if "China manages to start ramping up production," especially not on the basis of continued oil or hydrocarbon consumption, with or without further growth in the rate of consumption. No winners beyond an alreadly foreclosed historical short term and within the framework of games that are already over.

oh yeah, no doubt...Whatever dominance China manages to achieve will be short-lived either due to US aggression or inability to deal effectively with the incredible damage to the Ecosphere. I have to admit, I have been reading a lot of Jose Arguelles who I think deftly defines the Techno and Ecospheres, along with the Noosphere, which is a whole other topic. :starz:
Anyhow, the below is certainly a factor in regards to SE Asian sentiment towards China. Vietnam seems to be an early "winner" in the CV Sweepstakes, but they can't just hold their nose and shake hands with China as a nearby fellow early winner when they pull this shite. Cambodia is essentially a Chinese colony at this point...

Science Shows Chinese Dams Are Devastating the Mekong
New data demonstrates a devastating effect on downstream water supplies that feed millions of people.
leven massive dams straddle the mighty Mekong River before it leaves China and flows into Myanmar, Laos, Thailand, Cambodia, and on into Vietnam. Yet I have long been skeptical that China could use those 11 upstream dams, massive as they are, to turn off the tap for the countries downstream. Too many people’s livelihoods, including 20 percent of the world’s freshwater fish catch, are dependent on the monsoonal ebb and flow of the Mekong. Yes, dams might store water for a time, but eventually that water must flow downstream through generators’ spinning turbines or open floodgates. Holding on to that water for leverage seemed like a diplomatic blunder.

Since China began building these dams in the early 1990s, the downstream countries have worried China could use its massive cascade of reservoirs—they have a capacity to store as much water as is in the Chesapeake Bay—to hold them hostage. When I gave talks on my recent book, Last Days of the Mighty Mekong, I often felt audiences were disappointed that I avoided reflexively painting China as the upstream boogeyman. The way the downstream countries of Laos, Vietnam, Thailand, and Cambodia build dams and extract sand, fish, and water from the river can also harm a fragile system.
China considers water management data to be a state secret, and, barring new evidence, it has always been difficult to reach defensible conclusions about China’s management water levels in the Mekong River. That is, until this month, when remarkable new data became public. It shines a dramatic light on how much water China’s upstream dams have blocked—even as downstream countries suffered through unprecedented drought.

Every year, the Mekong River rises and falls in cycle with the rainy season, when a massive pulse of water driven by monsoon rains and Himalayan snow melt flows downstream. Yet along the Thai-Lao border between June and November of last year the mainstream of the Mekong ran dry, the river bed and shoals were exposed, and isolated pools of flopping fish were unable to reach their spawning grounds.

That July, as the mainstream’s level fell so far that irrigation pumps could not reach it, the Thai government mobilized its army to conduct relief efforts. In the fall, Tonle Sap Lake will typically fill with monsoon waters rushing in from the mainstream for five months, providing Cambodians with up to 70 percent of their protein. Last year, the expansion of the lake, often described as the Mekong’s heartbeat, lasted just five weeks, and reports suggest it produced a fraction of the normal 500,000 tons of food.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/22/sc ... ong-river/
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Re: The Coming War on China

Postby SonicG » Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:31 pm

Jared is apparently the actual pres as Trump has no clue what to do...
JARED KUSHNER SAYS TRUMP IS FOCUSED ON RESPONSE TO CHINA, WILL TAKE WHATEVER ACTIONS ARE NECESSARY TO HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE
White House Senior Adviser Jared Kushner told Fox & Friends Wednesday that President Donald Trump "will take whatever actions are necessary" against whoever is responsible for the outbreak of the novel coronavirus that triggered a global pandemic and wreaked havoc on the U.S. economy.

Co-host Brian Kilmeade asked Kushner about two things: the Australian government's independent investigation into the origins of the virus, and German newspaper Bilds' invoice to China for $160 billion for losses related to Covid-19, the disease caused by the virus.

"Do you believe that they owe us a check, and will there be an invoice handed to them shortly?" Kilmeade asked Kusher about China.

"Is there going to be an offensive move on them to replenish our resources, as we've been brought to our knees economically?"

Kushner said that Trump is focused on the country's response to the COVID-19 pandemic.

"But," he added, "he has asked the team to look into very carefully what happened how this got here, and to make sure that he will take whatever actions are necessary to make sure that the people who cause the problems are held accountable for it."

"So, yes," Kushner said.
https://www.newsweek.com/jared-kushner- ... ld-1500916

I think we know who is charge...With Kissinger in the loop somewhere probably...
Image

And yet...Institut Pasteur

Coronavirus outbreak in France did not come directly from China, gene-tracing scientists say
Researchers conclude that the virus was circulating undetected in France in February
Findings highlight the difficulties governments face in tracing the source of coronavirus outbreaks

The coronavirus outbreak in France was not caused by cases imported from China, but from a locally circulating strain of unknown origin, according to a new study by French scientists at the Institut Pasteur in Paris.
Genetic analysis showed that the dominant types of the viral strains in France belonged to a clade – or group with a common ancestor – that did not come from China or Italy, the earliest hotspot in Europe.
“The French outbreak has been mainly seeded by one or several variants of this clade … we can infer that the virus was silently circulating in France in February,” said researchers led by Dr Sylvie van der Werf and Etienne Simon-Loriere in a non-peer reviewed paper released on bioRxiv.org last week.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science ... china-gene


I realize it does not say anything conclusive that shows the origin was not China, but studies are in the early stages...
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Re: The Coming War on China

Postby SonicG » Fri May 01, 2020 11:48 pm

This will work out great:

U.S. officials crafting retaliatory actions against China
WASHINGTON – Senior U.S. officials are beginning to explore proposals for punishing or demanding financial compensation from China for its handling of the coronavirus pandemic, according to four senior administration officials with knowledge of internal planning.

The move could splinter already strained relations between the two superpowers at a perilous moment for the global economy.

Senior officials across multiple government agencies are expected to meet Thursday to begin mapping out a strategy for seeking retaliatory measures against China, two people with knowledge of the meeting said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because they weren’t authorized to disclose the planning. Officials in American intelligence agencies are also involved in the effort.

President Donald Trump has fumed to aides and others in recent days about China, blaming the country for withholding information about the virus, and has discussed enacting dramatic measures that would probably lead to retaliation by Beijing, these people said.

....

On Thursday, Geng Shuang, a spokesman for China’s Foreign Ministry, told reporters: “The U.S. should know that their enemy is the virus, not China. . . . They should focus on containment at home and international cooperation, instead of smearing China and shifting the blame onto China.”

He added: “As for punishment or accountability, as I have repeatedly stated, such rhetoric has no legal basis, and there’s no international precedent. . . . At this time, undermining others’ efforts will end up undermining oneself.”

...

When the virus first emerged, Trump praised Chinese President Xi Jinping’s handling of the outbreak, saying Xi is doing “a very good job with a very, very tough situation.” More recently, Trump concentrated his attacks on the World Health Organization. “If it was a mistake, a mistake is a mistake,” Trump said earlier this month of China and the coronavirus. “But if they were knowingly responsible, yeah, I mean, then sure there should be consequences.”
Trump has appeared to step up his attacks on China more recently. “We are not happy with China. We are not happy with that whole situation because we believe it could have been stopped at the source,” Trump said at a White House news conference Monday. “It could have been stopped quickly, and it wouldn’t have spread all over the world.”
...
In a sign of the general shift toward taking on China, Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, appeared on “Fox & Friends” on Wednesday, emphasizing the president is eyeing options to punish those responsible for the damage the virus has wreaked on the United States.

“He has asked the team to look into very carefully what happened, how this got here, and to make sure he will take whatever actions are necessary to make sure that the people who caused the problems are held accountable for it,” Kushner said.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/u ... nst-china/


Sure Jared...If this continues to gain steam, it will get very interesting as those Ivanka patents are just the tip of the iceberg waiting for the MAGATANIC if it tries to "punish" China...

Jared Kushner Is China’s Trump Card
How the President’s son-in-law, despite his inexperience in diplomacy, became Beijing’s primary point of interest.

n early 2017, shortly after Jared Kushner moved into his new office in the West Wing of the White House, he began receiving guests. One visitor who came more than once was Cui Tiankai, the Chinese Ambassador to the United States, a veteran diplomat with a postgraduate degree from Johns Hopkins University. When, during previous Administrations, Cui had visited the White House, his hosts received him with a retinue of China specialists and note-takers. Kushner, President Trump’s thirty-seven-year-old son-in-law and one of his senior advisers, preferred smaller gatherings.

Three months earlier, Cui had been in near-despair. Like many observers, he had incorrectly predicted that Hillary Clinton would win the 2016 election; his botched forecast, he told a friend, was precisely the kind of error that dooms the careers of ambassadors in the Chinese diplomatic system. To make matters worse, Cui knew almost nobody in the incoming Administration. Donald Trump had won the election in part by singling out China for “raping” the United States.

In Kushner, Cui found a confident, attentive, and inexperienced counterpart. The former head of his family’s real-estate empire, which is worth more than a billion dollars, Kushner was intent on bringing a businessman’s sensibility to matters of state. He believed that fresh, confidential relationships could overcome the frustrations of traditional diplomatic bureaucracy. Henry Kissinger, who, in his role as a high-priced international consultant, maintains close relationships in the Chinese hierarchy, had introduced Kushner to Cui during the campaign, and the two met three more times during the transition. In the months after Trump was sworn in, they met more often than Kushner could recall. “Jared became Mr. China,” Michael Pillsbury, a former Pentagon aide on Trump’s transition team, said.

...

Through his work, Kushner had established links to China. A Kushner project in Jersey City, which opened in November, 2016, reportedly received about fifty million dollars, nearly a quarter of its financing, from Chinese investors who are not publicly named, through a U.S. immigration program known as EB-5, which allows wealthy foreigners to obtain visas by investing in American projects. Kushner was also an investor, alongside prominent Chinese and Hong Kong businessmen, in multiple companies. He and a brother, Joshua Kushner, co-founded Cadre, a real-estate investment startup. Cadre received funding from David Yu, a co-founder of a private-equity firm with Jack Ma, the billionaire chairman of Alibaba. (The scope of investors behind Kushner projects is unknown, because the company does not disclose the names.) Ivanka Trump has her own business endeavors in China, where some of her branded handbags, shoes, and clothes are manufactured.

...
As Trump prepared to enter the White House, he took a sudden measure that unnerved officials in Beijing. On December 2nd, encouraged by the fiercest anti-China hawks among his advisers, including Steve Bannon, at that time his chief strategist, Trump took a telephone call from the President of Taiwan, Tsai Ing-wen, breaking with nearly four decades of American diplomatic practice. The U.S. has friendly relations with Taiwan, but Presidents since Ronald Reagan have avoided speaking directly with Taiwan’s President, because, as part of its “One China” policy, the U.S. formally recognizes only the Beijing government. Then, in an interview, Trump mused about giving up the “One China” policy and recognizing Taiwan’s government, in Taipei.

Chinese officials turned to the man that Kissinger had recommended to them: Jared Kushner. Kushner later told others that he took on the China portfolio reluctantly, after “clamoring” Chinese officials called Trump Tower and asked for him by name.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018 ... trump-card
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Re: The Coming War on China

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Sat May 02, 2020 2:05 am

I agree that the coming resource wars are a much bigger threat than China (or Russia (or Saudi Arabia)) and all of this will implode before anyone can mobilize for WWIII, unless anyone has the unmitigated balls to first strike with energy weapons.

But, nobody outside of Israel has worked as hard as China to blackmail, buy out and subvert the US power structure. There's going to be a lot of blowback for that and it's coming soon.

In one sense China has been hard at work in Washington DC longer than anyone - there was a China Lobby covering for their drug trade in the 20's and 30s. But that was a very different "China."

Today, our other ally/parasites have longer-standing continuous relationships, and operations, to the extent that's a real distinction. And all of them are keen to see the USA get used as a battering ram against the Chinese Century rather than risk a direct confrontation themselves. (Hell, they'll make money on the side the whole time off our trade war.)

Not so much jingoism as tectonic plates.
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Re: The Coming War on China

Postby JackRiddler » Sat May 02, 2020 9:59 am

Wombaticus Rex » Sat May 02, 2020 1:05 am wrote:Not so much jingoism as tectonic plates.


Problem is, your geological survey dates from a former century in an alternate universe.

But this wasn't a bad start:

I agree that the coming resource wars are a much bigger threat than China (or Russia (or Saudi Arabia)) and all of this will implode before anyone can mobilize for WWIII


Now let's pretend this inescapable reality can be seen even by some of the bad guys, and that that not every player is a demented sociopath, not every leader/regime/order and historic trend sticks around forever, and not ever game is Risk.

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Re: The Coming War on China

Postby dada » Sat May 02, 2020 10:42 am

Geng Shuang, a spokesman for China’s Foreign Ministry: “ . . . At this time, undermining others’ efforts will end up undermining oneself.”


Similar to what we were saying earlier in this thread.

Would undermining China end up undermining the U.S.? I think it's a question worth asking. To what extent are the economies interconnected. It's a very different China, as WR says.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: The Coming War on China

Postby JackRiddler » Sat May 02, 2020 11:23 am

SonicG » Fri May 01, 2020 10:48 pm wrote:This will work out great


oh yeah.

The family business stuff is interesting. Still, a lot of this is often unnamed "sources" doing promotional talk and journalistic embellishment. I mean, sampler:

In the months after Trump was sworn in, they met more often than Kushner could recall. “Jared became Mr. China,” Michael Pillsbury, a former Pentagon aide on Trump’s transition team, said.

[...]

Chinese officials turned to the man that Kissinger had recommended to them: Jared Kushner. Kushner later told others that he took on the China portfolio reluctantly, after “clamoring” Chinese officials called Trump Tower and asked for him by name.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018 ... trump-card


Snarf. Where's Waldo not, ever?

Sounds like mutual stroking off by grifters who stand to profit, and as usual the imputed furrners are not named.

For a high chance of discrediting a member of the Blob, in the next few years your first step should be the boolean "Journalist Name" AND Russiagate. Osnos has been an active offenders in the category of Russiagate Superexperts expressing disdain for the great unwashed for not dancing to the tune of their superiors (see, e.g., https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... ican-fraud), but here is Adam Entous giving us one of the genre's greatest hits. Hadn't remembered I would get such a legendary doozy right off the bat.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... story.html


National Security
Russian operation hacked a Vermont utility, showing risk to U.S. electrical grid security, officials say

Editor’s Note: An earlier version of this story incorrectly said that Russian hackers had penetrated the U.S. electric grid. Authorities say there is no indication of that so far. The computer at Burlington Electric that was hacked was not attached to the grid.

By Juliet Eilperin and
Adam Entous
December 31, 2016

A code associated with the Russian hacking operation dubbed Grizzly Steppe by the Obama administration has been detected within the system of a Vermont utility, according to U.S. officials.

While the Russians did not actively use the code to disrupt operations, according to officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a security matter, the discovery underscores the vulnerabilities of the nation’s electrical grid. And it raises fears in the U.S. government that Russian government hackers are actively trying to penetrate the grid to carry out potential attacks.

Officials in government and the utility industry regularly monitor the grid because it is highly computerized and any disruptions can have disastrous implications for the country’s medical and emergency services.

Burlington Electric said in a statement that the company detected a malware code used in the Grizzly Steppe operation in a laptop that was not connected to the organization’s grid systems. The firm said it took immediate action to isolate the laptop and alert federal authorities.

Friday night, Vermont Gov. Peter Shumlin (D) called on federal officials “to conduct a full and complete investigation of this incident and undertake remedies to ensure that this never happens again.”

“Vermonters and all Americans should be both alarmed and outraged that one of the world’s leading thugs, Vladimir Putin, has been attempting to hack our electric grid, which we rely upon to support our quality-of-life, economy, health, and safety,” Shumlin said in a statement. “This episode should highlight the urgent need for our federal government to vigorously pursue and put an end to this sort of Russian meddling.”

Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) said he was briefed on the attempts to penetrate the electric grid by Vermont State Police on Friday evening. “This is beyond hackers having electronic joy rides — this is now about trying to access utilities to potentially manipulate the grid and shut it down in the middle of winter,” Leahy said in a statement. “That is a direct threat to Vermont and we do not take it lightly.”

Rep. Peter Welch (D-Vt.) said the attack shows how rampant Russian hacking is. “It’s systemic, relentless, predatory,” Welch said . “They will hack everywhere, even Vermont, in pursuit of opportunities to disrupt our country. We must remain vigilant, which is why I support President Obama’s sanctions against Russia and its attacks on our country and what it stands for.”

American officials, including one senior administration official, said they are not yet sure what the intentions of the Russians might have been. The incursion may have been designed to disrupt the utility’s operations or as a test to see whether they could penetrate a portion of the grid.

Officials said that it is unclear when the code entered the Vermont utility’s computer, and that an investigation will attempt to determine the timing and nature of the intrusion, as well as whether other utilities were similarly targeted.

“The question remains: Are they in other systems and what was the intent?” a U.S. official said.

This week, officials from the Department of Homeland Security, FBI and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence shared the Grizzly Steppe malware code with executives from 16 sectors nationwide, including the financial, utility and transportation industries, a senior administration official said. Vermont utility officials identified the code within their operations and reported it to federal officials Friday, the official said.



I do think this is relevant. There is real transnational political economy, geostrategy and multi-level multi-player conflict at work, there are real dangers with unimaginable destructive potentials that make the likes of C19 look like a minor prelude, there are also real crimes and scandals and soap operas happening, but crude propaganda still writes the master narrative into which all the offered pieces will coalesce. Or, if you will, we have always been at war with East Asia and #Russiagate is now Yellow Peril.

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We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
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Re: The Coming War on China

Postby dada » Sat May 02, 2020 12:57 pm

Can a narrative into which the pieces coalesce be a master narrative, though? A master narrative is one from which pieces unfold.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: The Coming War on China

Postby JackRiddler » Sat May 02, 2020 2:38 pm

I meant that. How do the ants build an anthill? Do they have a plan in advance? And yet there it is, as if there was a master anthill. It's a collaborative, semi-discursive process conducted by a set of professions within given parameters, once they hear the siren's call to start. Pieces are found, or made up, and shaped to fit a raw, evolving outline. It goes through stages, eventually breaks down and rots. The principle remains: There is the enemy, put your creativity to work.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
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JackRiddler
 
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