US Presidential Election 2020

[stickdog99]

[stickdog99]

[stickdog99]

https://www.wired.com/story/opinion-the ... veillance/

The Capitol Attack Doesn’t Justify Expanding Surveillance

The security state that failed to keep DC safe doesn't need invasive technology to meet this moment—it needs more civilian oversight.

THEY TOOK OUR Capitol, stormed the halls, pilfered our documents, and shattered the norms of our democracy. The lasting damage from Wednesday’s attack will not come from the mob itself, but from how we respond. Right now, a growing chorus is demanding we use facial recognition, cellphone tower data, and every manner of invasive surveillance to punish the mob. In the days since the attack, the airwaves have been full of former law enforcement officials claiming that surveillance is the answer, such retired FBI special agents Danny Coulson and Doug Kouns. Even many who are normally critical of policing have jumped on the surveillance bandwagon in the desire to find justice. As understandable as it feels to give police even more powers in this crisis, this would be a gigantic mistake.

We don’t need a cutting-edge surveillance dragnet to find the perpetrators of this attack: They tracked themselves. They livestreamed their felonies from the halls of Congress, recording each crime in full HD. We don’t need facial recognition, geofences, and cell tower data to find those responsible, we need police officers willing to do their job.

It’s hard to state just how jarring the images from the Capitol were. Not the violence from the Republican rioters, but the passivity, even complicity, of the police. After a quarter century of activism, I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve seen protesters of color and progressives arrested, beaten, and worse.

People speaking out against injustice are met with brutality as a matter of course. But while millions of Americans face violence for protesting legally, white conservatives can break the law with impunity. That’s the failure we witnessed: not the angry mob but cooperative cops who were willing to look the other way or even pose for coup selfies.

This is nothing new in American history, but it’s rarely been captured so vividly. This is our history, same as the countless officers who turned a blind eye, or even lent a hand, to the racist lynch mobs of the past. This is the same racism that fueled the targeting of BIPOC communities for so many generations. And it should also be a moment of reckoning for American police, not a moment to give them greater deference and power.

This is why it’s so infuriating to now hear pundits call for even more powers for the officers who investigate the attack. PBS Newshour anchor Hari Sreenivasan tweeted “Protesters who stormed the Capitol - who don't believe in Covid or mask-wearing... should be easier to identify with facial recognition.” But why? Many of those who entered the Capitol gave their name to the press, posted their photos to social media, and continue to brag about their crimes. They broadcast their confessions to the world. Officers should be able to arrest these attackers with nothing more sophisticated than a DVR and a tip line.

If we give into the narrative that we need new invasive measures to solve this case, we will only further accelerate the growth of the national security state that failed to keep us secure from white extremists. Prior to this, there was a growing national movement to ban facial recognition, with cities across the country taking steps to ban the technology. Today, in the wake of this attack, some are seeing a justification for this biased and invasive technology, but we must not reverse course.

There's an old lawyer's saying: “Bad facts give you bad law.” And there are possibly no facts worse than what unfolded on January 6. But if we respond by giving police more powerful tracking tools, we know they'll simply turn them on the same BIPOC communities they always target. For the police charged with protecting our Capitol, the concern is not that they had too little power, it is that they lacked the willpower to use it against white conservatives.

Instead, Congress should draw a very different lesson. Rather than responding to these attacks with a new mandate for expanded policing powers, we need to expand our civilian oversight. For years, we’ve done little to address police discrimination, even as we saw it take the lives of so many Black Americans. Today, we see that the price is even higher: Our unaccountable policing poses a threat to the republic itself.

In the first hundred days of the Biden administration, we need a national effort to hold state, local, and federal police accountable. This means new requirements for civilian oversight, as we’ve enacted in New York, Oakland, and San Francisco, requiring police to tell the public how we’re being surveilled It also means requiring every police force in the country to have an independent civilian agency empowered to investigate and discipline officers. This must be the moment that we kill off the anti-democratic notion that police departments can police themselves.

We must also continue to hold the line against invasive and biased spy tools like facial recognition, even in this horrific case. If we give in to the feigned claims of necessity and begin to roll back limits on this anti-democratic technology, Wednesday’s attack will just be a prelude of what’s to come.

[stickdog99]

A separate issue here is the inability to distinguish between (1) an appropriate and necessary response to a fascist coup attempt -- round up and prosecute the leaders, planners and collaborators within the state, and of course those who directly engaged in violence, for the crimes you saw them commit literally live in real time -- and (2) the fact that this event may instead be exploited on behalf of a new, expanded, general state repression agenda that will be directed also, if not mainly, against the left. The latter (2), which is always being imposed and always has to be opposed, does not take away from the absolute urgency of the former (1).

What makes the former so absolutely urgent? What did the event you are so up arms about actually accomplish except to make every single bulwark of the neoliberal elite from the Terminator to Coach K to Colin Powell unite against Trump and his scary band of yahoos?

And note that, just as in 9/11, nobody in charge is to blame. Almost nobody in charge of organizing, participating or allowing this to happen is getting prosecuted. No. it's those random idiots who just might get the idea to that they should protest actual neoliberal injustices at some point in the future that we need to "smoke out of their holes." Global War on Future Protestors against the Establishment! You're either with us or with them!

[stickdog99]

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My goal is to steer clear from this thread/this forum but you've inspired me to chime in once more here.

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I'd wager that most that were there are certainly far more in the 'downtrodden' (read: working/labor classes) category than the comfortable/privileged/ZOOM-meetings demo that certainly did NOT attend this "event".

But beyond that, as I mentioned a number of times before: however misinformed/conditioned these people are, there is clear frustration being expressed (even though some of it may have been staged).

Legitimate frustration. Frustration that will only grow in the coming year, given all we've seen and heard thus far for the plans in play.

What exactly is the argument here? The people are getting f'd more this year than, perhaps, any prior year of the history of this Empire, arguably, and it will get worse, at least over the near term (12 - 24 months), barring larger uprisings. Is this in dispute?

There is good cause to be angry. There is good cause to be frustrated. The primary challenge is that conditioning mechanisms (via social media/internet/media) are very powerful and pervasive, now more than ever before; much of the legitimate frustration will likely be directed towards disingenuous movements, which in turn will provide the Technocrats in power more leverage to pass ever-more draconian laws/mandates/policies.

(This is hardly a robust dissemination. Many scenarios remain possible for 2021)

Legitimate frustration. They want their country back.

From the coons and the homos and the jews. Otherwise why the fuck weren't they marching on Wall St? On the people who really stole their country?

There was some cockhead walking around in a camp auschwitz t shirt. Why the fuck didn't someone beat him to death with a fire extinguisher? For having the temerity to walk around wearing that at their frustrated protest. I would have. The cunt.

Strawman talking points.

I'm referring to frustration broadly, not necessarily to this largely staged event that some here continue to naively refer to as a "fascist coup". Yes, it certainly presented as 'fascist coup' on TV, didn't it? I'm sure a number of the rubes there that day earnestly believed they were participating in some form of an insurrection, but that wasn't the objective by the primary drivers.

You're being played, FFS. Look at the immediate aftermath. The event was intended to TRIGGER. And clearly, it succeeded.

JRiddler:
That's what astonishes me about the various excuses, trivializations and justification narratives being put forth, unfortunately also on this thread. As though the crowd had somehow gathered spontaneously. As though it had no leader. As though he wasn't present and telling them what to do. As though there was no stated ideology. No organizations doing the mobilization. No advance planning, conducted on public online platforms. No announced intents.

I expected you to be better at filtering what you see in front of you, particularly given the timing and repercussions of this event, not to mention the clear FAILURE, in every respect, of achieving whatever was overtly presented as the intent.

Leave you with a couple links. Embedded links at source(s).

https://off-guardian.org/2021/01/08/pre ... rism-bill/

...Soon-to-be-President Joe Biden promised a new “domestic terrorism bill” back in November, according to the Wall Street Journal.

That is why you’re seeing so much usage of the phrase “domestic terrorism” in the last couple of days. It’s the meme-phrase. The primary talking point for this whole exercise. It was underlined in all the memos sent out to all the media outlets.

That’s why Joe Biden went to such lengths to distinguish “domestic terrorists” from “protesters” in his speech following the riots.

That’s why the Council on Foreign Relations had an interview with a “counter-terrorism and national security expert” published within 24 hours of the incident, in which he spends 4 paragraphs arguing that the people who “stormed the capitol” were domestic terrorists.

That’s why the Washington Post has got an article dedicated to “lawmakers and experts” arguing that the Capitol Hill protest was an act of “domestic terrorism”. And so have Vox. And Mother Jones.

That’s why ABC had an article about how “domestic terrorism and hate crimes” were a growing problem in America…a week before the riot took place.

And that’s why #TrumpisaDomesticTerrorist is trending on Twitter.

Georgetown University, a well-known spook college, published a paper in September 2020 titled the “The Need for a Specific Law Against Domestic Terrorism”, and op-ed pieces bemoaning the lack of such a law have been dotted through the press going back to last summer and even late 2019.

There was one published yesterday, in which a “senior FBI official” says “more could have been done” if there had been a “specific law outlawing” domestic terrorism.

“Domestic Terrorism” is clearly where it’s at in early 2021, so we can expect a brand new law regarding it…probably by March, at the latest.

What will “Domestic Terrorism” mean in this law? The answer to that is pretty much always “whatever they want it to mean.”

Certainly, it will include “incitement” and “hate speech”, I would expect “denialism” to make an appearance, and be downright shocked if “spreading misinformation” doesn’t get a mention. Don’t be surprised if “questioning elections” or “bringing democracy into disrepute” is made an outright crime.

It will probably be tied into the Covid “pandemic” in some way, too. After all, what is discouraging people from taking vaccines if not the very definition of “terrorism”, right? It’s possible that even climate change will get a mention as well. They like to slide that into every issue these days.

Joe Biden has claimed multiple times to be the author of the original Patriot Act, saying it was based entirely on a bill he proposed in the wake of the Oklahoma City bombing of 1995.

Well now he has a chance to work on the reboot too, and they are always so much better when you can get the original creative team back together.

And this excerpt:

As Twitter and Facebook limit discussion, alternative platforms will be shutdown. Enforcing a corporate monopoly that cooperates with the state…the very definition of fascism.

All this in the name of protecting the nation from “neo-nazi thugs” or “white supremacists” or other phantom threats. In the name of “protecting the constitution”, they are tearing it to pieces. In the name of “preventing a coup”, they are carrying one out in front of our eyes.

It puts in mind Huey Long’s famous quote when asked if fascism would ever come to America:

Sure, we’ll have Fascism in this country and we’ll call it anti-Fascism.”

https://off-guardian.org/2021/01/07/the ... stag-fire/


[edit to syntax, not content]

But, but, but, all of this is totally trivial compared to my insatiable urge to beat the living crap out that one yahoo I saw on TV who was wearing a disgusting t-shirt!

All of you fascist apologists need to have some perspective! We can sort out our overreaching authoritarian reactions only after we show our anti-fascist solidarity by immediately enacting them!

[stickdog99]

https://apnews.com/article/emily-rainey-army-investigation-capitol-5e3cd1ed9fc23269ce3b74ae55664d90

Army investigating officer who led group to Washington rally
.

If anyone is wondering, this is the only type of reaction to Trump's Cuckcoup that I want. Accountability for its organizers and enablers.

[stickdog99]

BelSav wrote:

I'm referring to frustration broadly, not necessarily to this largely staged event that some here continue to naively refer to as a "fascist coup". Yes, it certainly presented as 'fascist coup' on TV, didn't it? I'm sure a number of the rubes there that day earnestly believed they were participating in some form of an insurrection, but that wasn't the objective by the primary drivers.

Who staged it? Who are the "primary drivers"? Any evidence?

Does it really matter if it was MIHOP or LIHOP? It achieved its goal, as can be seen here, there, and everywhere around us. And the goal was not overturning the outcome the voting machines dutifully informed us of.

[DrEvil]

BelSav wrote:

I'm referring to frustration broadly, not necessarily to this largely staged event that some here continue to naively refer to as a "fascist coup". Yes, it certainly presented as 'fascist coup' on TV, didn't it? I'm sure a number of the rubes there that day earnestly believed they were participating in some form of an insurrection, but that wasn't the objective by the primary drivers.

Who staged it? Who are the "primary drivers"? Any evidence?

Does it really matter if it was MIHOP or LIHOP? It achieved its goal, as can be seen here, there, and everywhere around us. And the goal was not overturning the outcome the voting machines dutifully informed us of.

Of course it matters. If there's no evidence to the contrary how do you know it wasn't exactly what it looked like (an angry mob egged on by Trump and his enablers in Congress, of which there is plentiful evidence)?

If there's no evidence then you at least have to consider the possibility that this was an attempt (a piss poor attempt, just like the Beer Hall Putsch, or the last one in Venezuela) at overturning the election by a far-right/fascist mob. The important thing isn't that they failed, but that they even had the support to try.

I'm just really surprised that people seem more upset about fascists being banned from Twitter than the fact that there's a sizeable fascist movement in the US in the first place. Fascists should be crushed, not coddled, excused or reasoned with.

[stickdog99]

BelSav wrote:

I'm referring to frustration broadly, not necessarily to this largely staged event that some here continue to naively refer to as a "fascist coup". Yes, it certainly presented as 'fascist coup' on TV, didn't it? I'm sure a number of the rubes there that day earnestly believed they were participating in some form of an insurrection, but that wasn't the objective by the primary drivers.

Who staged it? Who are the "primary drivers"? Any evidence?

Does it really matter if it was MIHOP or LIHOP? It achieved its goal, as can be seen here, there, and everywhere around us. And the goal was not overturning the outcome the voting machines dutifully informed us of.

Of course it matters. If there's no evidence to the contrary how do you know it wasn't exactly what it looked like (an angry mob egged on by Trump and his enablers in Congress, of which there is plentiful evidence)?

If there's no evidence then you at least have to consider the possibility that this was an attempt (a piss poor attempt, just like the Beer Hall Putsch, or the last one in Venezuela) at overturning the election by a far-right/fascist mob. The important thing isn't that they failed, but that they even had the support to try.

I'm just really surprised that people seem more upset about fascists being banned from Twitter than the fact that there's a sizeable fascist movement in the US in the first place. Fascists should be crushed, not coddled, excused or reasoned with.

That's right! We obviously need a bigger hammer to crush all establishment resistance and dissent through Big Tech and security state repression! That could never possibly backfire against our own anti-establishment proclivities because we aren't them!

_____ don't deserve rights!

(fill-in-the-blank)

[DrEvil]

Did you miss the part where I explicitly said fascists? Please don't make me quote Popper at you.

[Harvey]

Those who only realise how badly they were played when it's far too late to do anything about it. Poor bastards.

[JackRiddler]

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First a mod request: Please stop flooding, stickdog. There is no need to force everyone to scroll through this many screens that consist of already posted posts. Please.

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Otherwise, this is tedious. You are just flat-out misinterpreting what everyone here is saying who isn't directly agreeing with you.

First of all, has anyone here expressed support for additional surveillance/terrorism/repression laws or PATRIOT Act 2.0 or any of this bullshit? No. So stop insulting us.

See what you wrote here?

If anyone is wondering, this is the only type of reaction to Trump's Cuckcoup that I want. Accountability for its organizers and enablers.

Okay, at what point did I suggest anything more? We agree. (Other than that I avoid using trivializing language to describe an attempted seizure of power by fascists.)

Not holding them accountable will lead to additional emboldened attempts to seize power and establish further terror by the fascists, who are obviously well-represented within the law enforcement institutions.

Now hear this: Not holding them accountable will also ultimately strengthen the push for a surveillance state that you say you oppose. These people are ALL OVER the damn surveillance state.

You are the one who is being a patsy by saying this level of lawlessness should stand and doesn't matter, or is less than or irrelevant compared to this or that, blah blah blah.

We do clearly differ in the way that you trivialize the attempted fascist coup d'etat -- organized, intended, and committed, however much it may have failed -- and its enablers.

You say "this event was intended to trigger." We clearly differ on what it was supposed to trigger: Trump's continuation in office. Failing that, it was supposed to be a show of force to help build their movement. This is far from over.

The failure of an organized attempt to overthrow constitutional government -- on behalf of the sitting president -- with at least some kind of enabling from within the state, does not make it trivial. If you reward such an attempt (including by basically letting these motherfuckers off, which is what you are arguing for), you encourage it to happen again and be much worse.

But, but, but, all of this is totally trivial compared to my insatiable urge to beat the living crap out that one yahoo I saw on TV who was wearing a disgusting t-shirt!

O, Projector in Chief, who the fuck are you even talking to? Speaking of strawpersons!

For starters I want to see those yahoos on TV, the president and his crew, who gathered this mob and dispatched them on an attempted coup d'etat against the legislature, pay the price. Him and everyone who was involved in this act.

The trivializers of the fascist coup attempt on this thread all share this in common: None of you want to acknowledge the actual event. Which was that the president, having lost the election, invited a mob, who were organized by fascist cadre, to come to Washington and shut down the Congress, so as to overturn the election result.

Those who only realise how badly they were played when it's far too late to do anything about it. Poor bastards.

Pithy platitudes don't make you right. You're the one being played, in this case. (Quite possibly because you're smart! The fascists are both so dumb and yet so effective on a brute level that you barely believe they exist, or would act as they do, without it being an element in some larger plot.)

.

[Harvey]

You're the one being played, in this case.

It's true. If I really want to wound someone, I write the truth about myself.

[dada]

I'd just like to make it clear that dystopia incorporated is a left wing globalist new world order in no way affiliated with the illuminati. We're more innovative and so savvy. Also our grand plan to dominate and control everybody is different. We're not in the business of manufacturing consent, but reproducing the manufacturing process.

[Joe Hillshoist]

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My goal is to steer clear from this thread/this forum but you've inspired me to chime in once more here.

.

I'd wager that most that were there are certainly far more in the 'downtrodden' (read: working/labor classes) category than the comfortable/privileged/ZOOM-meetings demo that certainly did NOT attend this "event".

But beyond that, as I mentioned a number of times before: however misinformed/conditioned these people are, there is clear frustration being expressed (even though some of it may have been staged).

Legitimate frustration. Frustration that will only grow in the coming year, given all we've seen and heard thus far for the plans in play.

What exactly is the argument here? The people are getting f'd more this year than, perhaps, any prior year of the history of this Empire, arguably, and it will get worse, at least over the near term (12 - 24 months), barring larger uprisings. Is this in dispute?

There is good cause to be angry. There is good cause to be frustrated. The primary challenge is that conditioning mechanisms (via social media/internet/media) are very powerful and pervasive, now more than ever before; much of the legitimate frustration will likely be directed towards disingenuous movements, which in turn will provide the Technocrats in power more leverage to pass ever-more draconian laws/mandates/policies.

(This is hardly a robust dissemination. Many scenarios remain possible for 2021)

Legitimate frustration. They want their country back.

From the coons and the homos and the jews. Otherwise why the fuck weren't they marching on Wall St? On the people who really stole their country?

There was some cockhead walking around in a camp auschwitz t shirt. Why the fuck didn't someone beat him to death with a fire extinguisher? For having the temerity to walk around wearing that at their frustrated protest. I would have. The cunt.

Strawman talking points.

I'm referring to frustration broadly, not necessarily to this largely staged event that some here continue to naively refer to as a "fascist coup". Yes, it certainly presented as 'fascist coup' on TV, didn't it? I'm sure a number of the rubes there that day earnestly believed they were participating in some form of an insurrection, but that wasn't the objective by the primary drivers.

You're being played, FFS. Look at the immediate aftermath. The event was intended to TRIGGER. And clearly, it succeeded.

JRiddler:
That's what astonishes me about the various excuses, trivializations and justification narratives being put forth, unfortunately also on this thread. As though the crowd had somehow gathered spontaneously. As though it had no leader. As though he wasn't present and telling them what to do. As though there was no stated ideology. No organizations doing the mobilization. No advance planning, conducted on public online platforms. No announced intents.

I expected you to be better at filtering what you see in front of you, particularly given the timing and repercussions of this event, not to mention the clear FAILURE, in every respect, of achieving whatever was overtly presented as the intent.

Leave you with a couple links. Embedded links at source(s).

https://off-guardian.org/2021/01/08/pre ... rism-bill/

...Soon-to-be-President Joe Biden promised a new “domestic terrorism bill” back in November, according to the Wall Street Journal.

That is why you’re seeing so much usage of the phrase “domestic terrorism” in the last couple of days. It’s the meme-phrase. The primary talking point for this whole exercise. It was underlined in all the memos sent out to all the media outlets.

That’s why Joe Biden went to such lengths to distinguish “domestic terrorists” from “protesters” in his speech following the riots.

That’s why the Council on Foreign Relations had an interview with a “counter-terrorism and national security expert” published within 24 hours of the incident, in which he spends 4 paragraphs arguing that the people who “stormed the capitol” were domestic terrorists.

That’s why the Washington Post has got an article dedicated to “lawmakers and experts” arguing that the Capitol Hill protest was an act of “domestic terrorism”. And so have Vox. And Mother Jones.

That’s why ABC had an article about how “domestic terrorism and hate crimes” were a growing problem in America…a week before the riot took place.

And that’s why #TrumpisaDomesticTerrorist is trending on Twitter.

Georgetown University, a well-known spook college, published a paper in September 2020 titled the “The Need for a Specific Law Against Domestic Terrorism”, and op-ed pieces bemoaning the lack of such a law have been dotted through the press going back to last summer and even late 2019.

There was one published yesterday, in which a “senior FBI official” says “more could have been done” if there had been a “specific law outlawing” domestic terrorism.

“Domestic Terrorism” is clearly where it’s at in early 2021, so we can expect a brand new law regarding it…probably by March, at the latest.

What will “Domestic Terrorism” mean in this law? The answer to that is pretty much always “whatever they want it to mean.”

Certainly, it will include “incitement” and “hate speech”, I would expect “denialism” to make an appearance, and be downright shocked if “spreading misinformation” doesn’t get a mention. Don’t be surprised if “questioning elections” or “bringing democracy into disrepute” is made an outright crime.

It will probably be tied into the Covid “pandemic” in some way, too. After all, what is discouraging people from taking vaccines if not the very definition of “terrorism”, right? It’s possible that even climate change will get a mention as well. They like to slide that into every issue these days.

Joe Biden has claimed multiple times to be the author of the original Patriot Act, saying it was based entirely on a bill he proposed in the wake of the Oklahoma City bombing of 1995.

Well now he has a chance to work on the reboot too, and they are always so much better when you can get the original creative team back together.

And this excerpt:

As Twitter and Facebook limit discussion, alternative platforms will be shutdown. Enforcing a corporate monopoly that cooperates with the state…the very definition of fascism.

All this in the name of protecting the nation from “neo-nazi thugs” or “white supremacists” or other phantom threats. In the name of “protecting the constitution”, they are tearing it to pieces. In the name of “preventing a coup”, they are carrying one out in front of our eyes.

It puts in mind Huey Long’s famous quote when asked if fascism would ever come to America:

Sure, we’ll have Fascism in this country and we’ll call it anti-Fascism.”

https://off-guardian.org/2021/01/07/the ... stag-fire/


[edit to syntax, not content]

But, but, but, all of this is totally trivial compared to my insatiable urge to beat the living crap out that one yahoo I saw on TV who was wearing a disgusting t-shirt!

All of you fascist apologists need to have some perspective! We can sort out our overreaching authoritarian reactions only after we show our anti-fascist solidarity by immediately enacting them!

Its not authoritarian to make an individual choice to reject the states monopoly on violence. As we've seen. Sometimes people need to be punched, or shot or whatever. Non violent protest may work in liberal bourgy societies but it won't against people who happily use violence against their political enemies. So fuck them.

If you are worried about the response to this attempted coup being overly authoritarian then use your wits and the tools at your disposal to make a legitimate stand against that response. There is more than enough legislative power in the US already to deal with this. You don't need more.

One thing that is obvious from my time here and just observing the us in general - there is a vast right wing conspiracy (well movement is probably a better term) to start an ethno nationalist state among elements of the establishment in the US (and Europe) and it will use force if (and when) it has to. It obviously stretches into the military and police forces, tho the demographics of the military has changed over the last few decades.

Its using Trump to further its aims. And it will use the reaction against him to recruit disenfranchised, resentful white people.

White supremicist nationalists will make more, proper coup attempts in the US in future. this was a warm up. Trump said it was coming for weeks. Cops stood back and let people act. There were guys running around with cable ties and tactical gear on. That implies they intend to detain people. They probably have data on how long it take to get anywhere in there now. This isn't going away. Its not just "domestic terrorism". Its bigger than that.