Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

[stickdog99]

https://aaronsiri.substack.com/p/scient ... or-data-it

Scientists Sue the FDA for Data it Relied Upon to License Pfizer's Covid-19 Vaccine

You can’t say no, you can’t sue for harm, and you can’t see the data underlying the government’s claim that the product is safe and effective. That seems fair.

The FDA repeatedly promised “full transparency” with regard to Covid-19 vaccines, including reaffirming “the FDA’s commitment to transparency” when licensing Pfizer’s Covid-19 vaccine.

Transparency regarding this product means, if nothing else, sharing the data the FDA relied upon to license this vaccine. The definition of “transparency” literally includes “accessibility of information.” So, when the FDA denies a request to expedite release of this data from a group of highly credentialed scientists from major universities across the country, is that transparency?

If the FDA is committed to transparency, why must a federal lawsuit be filed to timely obtain this data? Why has the FDA, weeks after the filing of a federal lawsuit, still not agreed to timely release this data? Why does the FDA persist in delaying its release when even federal law states that, once licensed, the “data and information in the biological product file [for the licensed vaccine] are immediately available for public disclosure.”

Transparency demands the FDA immediately disclose the data it relied upon to license the Pfizer vaccine. Not tomorrow. Today. Scientists, health care professionals, and every person in this country, especially those mandated to receive this product, should have access to the data now.

It is incredible enough that the federal government has mandated Pfizer’s Covid-19 vaccine for millions of Americans when it has given Pfizer complete financial immunity for harms caused by this product. So, you can’t say no, you can’t sue for harm, and you can’t see the data underlying the government’s claim that the product is safe and effective. Some might describe such conduct as authoritarian. Of course, such a claim would likely get censored. And censoring will, of course, help anyone claiming such a mandate is authoritarian understand they are misguided.

Feel free to peruse the complaint filed in the federal lawsuit against the very transparent FDA. Should have another update on this in a few weeks.

[stickdog99]

Oh look! Stickdog is making shit up to score cheap points. Again.

Oh, look. Dr. Evil is still conflicted about exactly how he feels about welcoming an already arrived dystopia in which your right to work depends on your relinquishing your right to control what is injected into your body to Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Brother.

I mean, on one hand, it is a dystopia. But on the other hand, it is a dystopia that encourages more vaccination, which is always totally awesome by definition!

And we were already living in a dystopia anyway. So there's always that defense for merely supercharging it.

[Laodicean]

^

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=27529

[stickdog99]

https://twitter.com/martinplacebets/sta ... 6035324929

[stickdog99]

[stickdog99]

https://twitter.com/DrEliDavid/status/1 ... 2966363146

After vaccinating over 85% of its population, Singapore finally flattened the curve, but along the wrong axis:

[mentalgongfu2]

Association of American Physicians and Surgeons

Published October 4, 2021

The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is a politically conservative non-profit association that promotes medical disinformation, such as HIV/AIDS denialism, the abortion-breast cancer hypothesis, vaccine and autism connections, and homosexuality reducing life expectancy. The association was founded in 1943 to oppose a government attempt to nationalize health care.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associati ... d_Surgeons

With all due respect, I wouldn't touch AAPS with a ten-foot pole. There have been few bigger toadies for the rightwing corporate class. Sigh.

They suck, but they are also seemingly the only US physician group fighting for anything other than a total mRNA vaccine compliance strategy for containment and treatment of COVID-19. For whatever reason. no group left of neoconservative Joe Biden dare even mention the most patently obvious things, such as natural immunity is superior to shitty, leaky vaccine immunity or that early treatment for COVID-19 is more effective than doing nothing whatsoever until you cannot breathe.

Can you tell me why this is?

When confronted with the reality that the only physician group supporting your preferred position is a bunch of corporate toadies known for promulgating disinfo and bigotry, a different type of person might by inclined to re-evaluate that position.

[Belligerent Savant]

.

Each time I believe you reached the far end of insular/obtuse commentary, you come back with another gem that extends the boundary further.
Well done.

The only physician group, eh?

BSavant comment: the above commentary is stricken as it was based on my selective focus/'refrigerator blindness' (a casualty of poor multi-tasking).
In short, I wrongly attributed to mentalgongfu, and am owning this faux-pas.


The only physician group, eh?

Here's a few more -- consisting of physicians, doctors, scientists, health professionals, et al.:

https://doctorsandscientistsdeclaration.org/

A snippet:

[UPDATE: as of 2:30pm ET on 10/12 over 11,900 doctors & scientists have signed the Rome Declaration. Please join us by reading and signing below.]

We the physicians of the world, united and loyal to the Hippocratic Oath, recognizing the profession of medicine as we know it is at a crossroad, are compelled to declare the following;

WHEREAS, it is our utmost responsibility and duty to uphold and restore the dignity, integrity, art and science of medicine;

WHEREAS, there is an unprecedented assault on our ability to care for our patients;

WHEREAS, public policy makers have chosen to force a “one size fits all” treatment strategy, resulting in needless illness and death, rather than upholding fundamental concepts of the individualized, personalized approach to patient care which is proven to be safe and more effective;

WHEREAS, physicians and other health care providers working on the front lines, utilizing their knowledge of epidemiology, pathophysiology and pharmacology, are often first to identify new, potentially life saving treatments;

WHEREAS, physicians are increasingly being discouraged from engaging in open professional discourse and the exchange of ideas about new and emerging diseases, not only endangering the essence of the medical profession, but more importantly, more tragically, the lives of our patients;

WHEREAS, thousands of physicians are being prevented from providing treatment to their patients, as a result of barriers put up by pharmacies, hospitals, and public health agencies, rendering the vast majority of healthcare providers helpless to protect their patients in the face of disease. Physicians are now advising their patients to simply go home (allowing the virus to replicate) and return when their disease worsens, resulting in hundreds of thousands of unnecessary patient deaths, due to failure-to-treat;

WHEREAS, this is not medicine. This is not care. These policies may actually constitute crimes against humanity.

Or perhaps this one, which was drafted over a year ago:

https://gbdeclaration.org/

860,000+ signatures

The Great Barrington Declaration – As infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing COVID-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call Focused Protection.

Coming from both the left and right, and around the world, we have devoted our careers to protecting people. Current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health. The results (to name a few) include lower childhood vaccination rates, worsening cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings and deteriorating mental health – leading to greater excess mortality in years to come, with the working class and younger members of society carrying the heaviest burden. Keeping students out of school is a grave injustice.

Keeping these measures in place until a vaccine is available will cause irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed.

Fortunately, our understanding of the virus is growing. We know that vulnerability to death from COVID-19 is more than a thousand-fold higher in the old and infirm than the young. Indeed, for children, COVID-19 is less dangerous than many other harms, including influenza.

As immunity builds in the population, the risk of infection to all – including the vulnerable – falls. We know that all populations will eventually reach herd immunity – i.e. the point at which the rate of new infections is stable – and that this can be assisted by (but is not dependent upon) a vaccine. Our goal should therefore be to minimize mortality and social harm until we reach herd immunity.

The most compassionate approach that balances the risks and benefits of reaching herd immunity, is to allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live their lives normally to build up immunity to the virus through natural infection, while better protecting those who are at highest risk. We call this Focused Protection.

Or perhaps this one?

https://covid19criticalcare.com/

Mission Statement and Objectives

Formed by leading critical care specialists in March 2020, at the beginning of the Coronavirus pandemic, the ‘Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance’ is now a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization dedicated to developing highly effective treatment protocols to prevent the transmission of COVID-19 and to improve the outcomes for patients ill with the disease.

We are dedicated to:

Reviewing all emerging published medical literature on COVID-19 from in-vitro, animal, clinical, and epidemiologic studies.
Developing effective treatment protocols for COVID-19 that evolve by incorporating newly identified, applicable therapeutic and pathophysiologic insights.
Educating physicians on safe and effective treatment approaches to all phases of COVID-19, from disease prevention strategies to the use of our combination-based therapy protocols in both early-stage (I-MASK+) and hospitalized patients (MATH+).
Improving outcomes for people impacted by COVID-19 disorders through preventive and treatment strate­gies designed to optimize health.
Teaching the public ways to prevent transmission of the virus and to advocate for the best possible care.
Coordinating and accelerating the formation of research studies that will support effective prevention and therapeutic treatments for all impacted by COVID-19.
We accomplish these goals by sponsoring high quality medical education for both the public and health care providers, via the publication of scientific manuscripts, media interviews, and medical lectures for medical providers and the public.

Among others, of course.

Now get to work trying to find ways to de-value these efforts without actually addressing the science/health-based points they raise!

[mentalgongfu2]

Each time I believe you reached the far end of insular/obtuse commentary, you come back with another gem that extends the boundary further.
Well done.

The only physician group, eh?

Those were Stickdog's words, not mine, you jackass.

[DrEvil]

Oh look! Stickdog is making shit up to score cheap points. Again.

Oh, look. Dr. Evil is still conflicted about exactly how he feels about welcoming an already arrived dystopia in which your right to work depends on your relinquishing your right to control what is injected into your body to Big Tech, Big Pharma, and Big Brother.

I mean, on one hand, it is a dystopia. But on the other hand, it is a dystopia that encourages more vaccination, which is always totally awesome by definition!

And we were already living in a dystopia anyway. So there's always that defense for merely supercharging it.

Screw it. I'm just going to go full Stickdog:

Yes, we are living in a dystopia, and it's your fucking fault. People are needlessly dying right now because you and your fellow foot soldiers want them to. You welcome the deaths of all the old and sick and poor people, the useless eaters who are only a drain on society, and you will do everything in your power to prevent them from obtaining the free treatment that will prevent them from dying. You champion eugenics under the guise of standing up to the man, and you relentlessly attack anyone who dares question the party line. Congratulations: you're a fucking fascist.

Does the above sound like a reasonable argument? No? Then fucking stop arguing like that, because that's what you're doing and it's god damn tedious.

[Belligerent Savant]

Each time I believe you reached the far end of insular/obtuse commentary, you come back with another gem that extends the boundary further.
Well done.

The only physician group, eh?

Those were Stickdog's words, not mine, you jackass.

You're absolutely right - I corrected it above.
My bad.

[Joe Hillshoist]

.

This is a quick drive-by; I may come back later with something more substantive, but a few quick replies to a few specific statements by Joe H. above:

If not then why is it that the vaccine which introduces a tiny amount of the spike protein to the body, in a non replicating way

Whoa there, cowboy. the bolded bit remains very much in question. Actually, there are claims to the contrary: continued proliferation/replication of spike proteins (introduced to the body via 'vaccine') -- particularly in vital organs -- well beyond the presumed timeframe indicated by the vaccine manufacturers (and actually: did the manufacturers ever offer any specific statements/claims on this? I'd like to know) are one of the key factors in (reported) vaccine-related adverse reactions.
If you have a source for your statement above -- other than the standard language put forth by those promoting mass vaccination -- I'd like to see it.

Also, the above statement assumes the only concern with the vaccines is whatever was reportedly done to replicate the spike proteins (synthetically). The added concerns on top of this are the other ingredients in these vaccines apart from the spike protein(s), and the potential harms of these other ingredients, a subset of which have not yet been disclosed.

You constantly show that you don't understand what you are reading. There is no mechanism for ongoing replication of those cells beyond the initial one.

All treatments for COVID including suppressed early intervention create evolutionary pressure on SARS2.

Please cite your sources for the bolded bit of this claim, and the specific early treatments you're referencing that reportedly qualify.

Its how evolution works. All interventional medicine creates evolutionary pressure on the disease it treats. Or on the cause of that disease. If you don't understand that do you understand what evolution is? It a basic, fundamental concept.

Delta, the dominant variant right now arose in India, before they had started vaccinations there and spread thru mostly unvaccinated populations. As of yet nothing has come along that has removed that dominance by Delta.

I don't understand. I just posted example regions in India with low vaxx rates that had great success with Ivermectin as primary treatment. Your comment above seems to ignore this. Am I missing something?

Here it is again:

... the regions in India that adopted Ivermectin fared very well despite very low vaxx rates; regions that excluded Ivermectin did not fare nearly as well:

Now let's also look at regions in India that focused on Ivermectin as primary treatment:

Uttar Pradesh on Ivermectin: Population 240 Million [4.9% fully vaccinated]

COVID Daily Cases: 26

COVID Daily Deaths: 3

Delhi on Ivermectin: Population 31 Million [15% fully vaccinated]

COVID Daily Cases: 61

COVID Daily Deaths: 2

Uttarakhand on Ivermectin: Population 11.4 Million [15% fully vaccinated]

COVID Daily Cases: 24

COVID Daily Deaths: 0

https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion ... 19364.html

Have there been recent changes to the above figures due to Delta?

WTF are you on about?

I responded to your claim that vaccines create more dominant variants that are more dangerous with the fact that they haven't.

The dominant variant, delta, came into being before vaccinations were even started in the US, half a world away from the US. Since then no vaccine enhanced variant has replaced the delta variant as dominant because it was more dangerous or more contagious. So that claim you repeated about vaccines creatin g more dangerous more virulent variants is wrong.

And neither side if that argument have got anything to do with what treatments were used in India cos there are no vaccines.

Regardless, none of the above justifies forced/coerced mass vaccination. We are witnessing crimes against humanity. [b]And some continue to defend it, passively or otherwise.[/b]

Feel free to quote me promoting forced coerced vaccination or else shut the fuck up about it and stop accusing me of things I'm not doing.

Also, this is noteworthy:

Is it? Why?

If someone gets cleaned up by a drunk driver a day after having the vaccine is that the vaccine's fault as well?

[Belligerent Savant]

.

This is a quick drive-by; I may come back later with something more substantive, but a few quick replies to a few specific statements by Joe H. above:

If not then why is it that the vaccine which introduces a tiny amount of the spike protein to the body, in a non replicating way

Whoa there, cowboy. the bolded bit remains very much in question. Actually, there are claims to the contrary: continued proliferation/replication of spike proteins (introduced to the body via 'vaccine') -- particularly in vital organs -- well beyond the presumed timeframe indicated by the vaccine manufacturers (and actually: did the manufacturers ever offer any specific statements/claims on this? I'd like to know) are one of the key factors in (reported) vaccine-related adverse reactions.
If you have a source for your statement above -- other than the standard language put forth by those promoting mass vaccination -- I'd like to see it.

Also, the above statement assumes the only concern with the vaccines is whatever was reportedly done to replicate the spike proteins (synthetically). The added concerns on top of this are the other ingredients in these vaccines apart from the spike protein(s), and the potential harms of these other ingredients, a subset of which have not yet been disclosed.

You constantly show that you don't understand what you are reading. There is no mechanism for ongoing replication of those cells beyond the initial one.

I typed replication and proliferation. You didn't address the proliferation bit, but in the prior page I already quoted on methods for proliferation, especially its proliferation beyond the injection site:

Migration of the SARS-CoV-2 “Spike Protein” in the Body

The SARS-CoV-2 has a spike protein on its surface. The spike protein is what allows the
virus to infect other bodies. It is clear that the spike protein is not a simple, passive structure.
The spike protein is a “pathogenic protein” and a toxin that causes damage. The spike protein is
itself biologically active, even without the virus. It is “fusogenic” and consequently binds more
tightly to our cells, causing harm. If the purified spike protein is injected into the blood of
research animals, it causes profound damage to their cardiovascular system, and crosses the
blood-brain barrier to cause neurological damage. If the Vaccines were like traditional bona fide
vaccines, and did not leave the immediate site of vaccination, typically the shoulder muscle,
beyond the local draining lymph node, then the damage that the spike protein could cause might
be limited.

However, the Vaccines were authorized without any studies demonstrating where the
spike proteins traveled in the body following vaccination, how long they remain active and what
effect they have. A group of international scientists has recently obtained the “biodistribution
study” for the mRNA Vaccines from Japanese regulators. The study reveals that unlike
traditional vaccines, this spike protein enters the bloodstream and circulates throughout the body
over several days post-vaccination. It accumulates in a number of tissues, such as the spleen,
bone marrow, liver, adrenal glands and ovaries. It fuses with receptors on our blood platelets,
and also with cells lining our blood vessels. It can cause platelets to clump leading to clotting,
bleeding and heart inflammation. It can also cross the blood-brain barrier and cause brain
damage. It can be transferred to infants through breast milk. The VAERS system includes
reports of infants suckling from vaccinated mothers experiencing bleeding disorders in the
gastrointestinal tract.

And here's a simple explanation for how copies are made of the spike proteins. The spike proteins themselves don't replicate on their own, but copies are indeed made of the spike protein:

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/where ... roteins-go

How long mRNA lasts in the body
The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines work by introducing mRNA (messenger RNA) into your muscle cells. The cells make copies of the spike protein and the mRNA is quickly degraded (within a few days). The cell breaks the mRNA up into small harmless pieces. mRNA is very fragile; that's one reason why mRNA vaccines must be so carefully preserved at very low temperatures.

How long spike proteins last in the body
The Infectious Disease Society of America (IDSA) estimates that the spike proteins that were generated by COVID-19 vaccines last up to a few weeks, like other proteins made by the body. The immune system quickly identifies, attacks and destroys the spike proteins because it recognizes them as not part of you. This "learning the enemy" process is how the immune system figures out how to defeat the real coronavirus. It remembers what it saw and when you are exposed to coronavirus in the future it can rapidly mount an effective immune response.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All treatments for COVID including suppressed early intervention create evolutionary pressure on SARS2.

Please cite your sources for the bolded bit of this claim, and the specific early treatments you're referencing that reportedly qualify.

Its how evolution works. All interventional medicine creates evolutionary pressure on the disease it treats. Or on the cause of that disease. If you don't understand that do you understand what evolution is? It a basic, fundamental concept.

What are one of the key triggers for evolutionary pressure? For these experimental vaccines, it was unprecedented wide-scale inoculation across all populations regardless of risk profile/age/overall health factors, in the middle of a pandemic, rather than focused on those at greater risk while allowing the healthy to develop herd immunity.

Alternative treatments haven't had anywhere near the prevalence rate as these covid vaccines, and as such wouldn't impose the same pressure.

Vanden Bossche:

https://www.geertvandenbossche.org/post ... iticism-ii

the mechanism of selection of immune escape variants is very different from what is proposed by Noorchashm. He proposes that spontaneously occurring mutants/ variants will escape immune pressure and get established in people who happen to mount the type of suboptimal immune response that would match the spontaneously occurring mutations. As a result, he states, variants would selectively ‘prey’ on subjects exhibiting suboptimal immune pressure, for example as a result of vaccination. This is wrong as the mechanism of immune selection works the other way around. Again, it’s not like spontaneously occurring mutations become dominant because some of them happen to bypass vaccinal immune responses in a certain cohort of vaccinees. According to the scenario he’s proposing, emerging variants that are, for example, completely resistant to the vaccine would have the same chance to become dominant as those which are more infectious but far from fully resistant to the vaccine. That is definitely not how evolutionary pressure and selective immune escape work as pressure (including immune pressure) and escape therefrom are interdependently co-evolving. This particularly applies to C19 which has been experiencing a steadily growing pressure on its S(1) protein (responsible for its infectiousness), first through global infection prevention measures and second, through mass vaccination campaigns using vaccines that are targeted at S1, and particularly at the RBD, to prevent binding to ACE2 and hence, to prevent infection. That’s also why selected mutations in more infectious variants have been found to increasingly converge to S1, even including RBD.


In conclusion, I do all but concur with Noorchashm’s conclusion that C19-infected subjects are the source of more infectious variants. I am under the impression that he confuses ‘mutations’ with ‘selection of immune escape variants’ or ‘emergence/ selection of viral variants’.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Delta, the dominant variant right now arose in India, before they had started vaccinations there and spread thru mostly unvaccinated populations. As of yet nothing has come along that has removed that dominance by Delta.

I don't understand. I just posted example regions in India with low vaxx rates that had great success with Ivermectin as primary treatment. Your comment above seems to ignore this. Am I missing something?

Here it is again:

... the regions in India that adopted Ivermectin fared very well despite very low vaxx rates; regions that excluded Ivermectin did not fare nearly as well:

Now let's also look at regions in India that focused on Ivermectin as primary treatment:

Uttar Pradesh on Ivermectin: Population 240 Million [4.9% fully vaccinated]

COVID Daily Cases: 26

COVID Daily Deaths: 3

Delhi on Ivermectin: Population 31 Million [15% fully vaccinated]

COVID Daily Cases: 61

COVID Daily Deaths: 2

Uttarakhand on Ivermectin: Population 11.4 Million [15% fully vaccinated]

COVID Daily Cases: 24

COVID Daily Deaths: 0

https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion ... 19364.html

Have there been recent changes to the above figures due to Delta?

WTF are you on about?

I responded to your claim that vaccines create more dominant variants that are more dangerous with the fact that they haven't.

The dominant variant, delta, came into being before vaccinations were even started in the US, half a world away from the US. Since then no vaccine enhanced variant has replaced the delta variant as dominant because it was more dangerous or more contagious. So that claim you repeated about vaccines creatin g more dangerous more virulent variants is wrong.

Where did I claim that vaccines create more dangerous/more virulent variants? It remains possible I typed something along these lines in the past, but needless to say the science is not static. We are all witnessing and participating in a grand experiment right now on behalf of govt 'leaders', bureaucrats and those occluded from view. It will be years before there's clarity on current policies.

On EDIT: Ah, I think I found what you're referring to, from over a month ago (!):

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=41979&p=697578&hilit=virulent#p697578

Except I didn't type what you're claiming I typed. You're referring to a specific line or two from a blog posting I shared here, but I never indicated I subscribed to that particular section, certainly not in the way you're framing it above.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regardless, none of the above justifies forced/coerced mass vaccination. We are witnessing crimes against humanity. [b]And some continue to defend it, passively or otherwise.[/b]

Feel free to quote me promoting forced coerced vaccination or else shut the fuck up about it and stop accusing me of things I'm not doing.

I wasn't referring to you. I was speaking generally, broadly.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, this is noteworthy:

Is it? Why?

If someone gets cleaned up by a drunk driver a day after having the vaccine is that the vaccine's fault as well?

Not sure what you're getting at here -- It's self-evident why it's fucking noteworthy. And nowhere did I suggest anything along the lines of this silly strawman example of yours.

Somewhat ironic though, as that's an example of how a covid death has been classified if death due to car accident occurred within a certain timeframe of a PCR positive result.

[Elvis]

The "International Alliance of Physicians and Medical Scientists" looks like an august body (formed last month?); their legitimacy is assured with the backing of Liberty Lobby lawyers.

This debate reminds me of economics: there's a mainstream orthodoxy, and competing heterodox and "fringe" perspectives. The orthodoxy is really fucked up, and some of the alternative "lenses" are even worse. Mountains of scholarly writing & research maintain one view or another, and because I study economics I can discern relative values among them. It's funny, but ideologically, the advocates who (in my estimation) are Most Wrong are Furthest Right.

I can't make such distinctions in immunology, virology etc., but when one particular view consistently emanates from the far right, I'm immediately skeptical. You didn't have to be a health scientist to easily see through Big Tobacco's PR prevarications, but this seems harder.

Also, "We the physicians of the world, united" is a pretty broad claim for just 11,000 signatures, considering there are nine million physicians in the world and probably a similar number of scientists in health & medicine. I'm curious how a non-entity such as the International Alliance of Physicians and Medical Scientists gathered 11,000 signatures; Facebook? (I stay away from Facebook, so I didn't look.) Liberty Counsel maybe?

[stickdog99]

Politics.

And nonsense.

Politics.

And nonsense.

All mRNA COVID-19 vaccines instruct your cells to create spike proteins that are demonstrably harmful to your body. Period.

And there is no off switch programmed into these mRNA instructions. Period.

So the only question is whether the temporary benefit in conferring protection against the minor chance of severe COVID-19 outweighs the short, mid, and potential long term harms of instructing your body's cells to create toxic spike proteins.

Unfortunately, we currently have no even halfway decent data available to us to even begin to answer this question of whether the overall benefit of these vaccines exceeds their overall costs and risks.

Here's the thing. I know many of you probably won't believe me about this, but I really, really want to have your level of certainty about these leaky mRNA vaccines. It would make my life and the lives of those I love so fucking much easier if only I could see the relevant data that all mRNA vaccine cheerleaders obviously must think exist.

So I am asking you all one more time, do you know where I can find any data that compare the overall (and not just COVID-19 coded health outcomes) of vaccinated populations with the overall health outcomes of comparable unvaccinated populations? Pretty, please?

And if you can't help me find these data, can I simply ask you why you think that the supposed health benefits of these vaccines (and their bi-annual boosters) outweigh their health risks?