'EcoFascism' and related Acts of Criminality.

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Re: 'EcoFascism' and related Acts of Criminality.

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Feb 20, 2023 2:35 pm

.
DrEvil -- or others -- have yet to comment on the last 2 posts I shared on the prior page of this thread (commentary by Roger Pielke, Jr), particularly the last piece Re: NGO funding. They are welcome to offer commentary on his positions, particularly since it differs from their framing of these issues. Or, perhaps they prefer to remain within their echo chambers.

In the meantime, I am quoting the below from the Ohio Derailment thread.


Belligerent Savant » Mon Feb 20, 2023 10:19 am wrote:
DrEvil » Sun Feb 19, 2023 9:38 pm wrote:Climate alarm is a perfectly rational reaction to what's happening right now.

That you, for some insane reason, have chosen to swallow the fossil fuel propaganda whole and speedrunning it here is just more proof of how effective their psyops have been. You're doing the same thing you've spent the last three years accusing me and others of doing for big pharma - being a useful idiot - and you can't even see it.


There’s nothing rational about climate ‘alarm’. It’s sheer propaganda, demonstrably. Yes, you do exhibit traits of a useful idiot. That you continue to refer to any critique of climate ‘alarm’ as ‘fossil fuel propaganda’ is just one clear example of how deeply misled you are. Just as you have been on the topic of Covid and big pharma ("fossil fuel propaganda" is the same tactic as labeling any critique of mRNA products and/or vaccines as "anti-vax propaganda". Thought-stopping/mindless commentary, quite literally. This is not to suggest there isn't propaganda out there in favor of the gas/oil industries. But there are also legitimate, compelling arguments against climate "ALARM" -- and you, and those of your ilk, refuse to recognize them).

I get how you believe the converse, naturally.

I wasn’t wrong about Covid, and I’m not wrong about the agendas surrounding climate ‘alarm’, despite your continued refusal to see that my arguments on the topic of climate are far more nuanced than your currently propagandized zealotry will allow you to consider, even for a moment. You are blinded by your devout secular religion, sadly.

You can take any further response to the EcoFascism thread to avoid further derailment here (pun intended).
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Re: 'EcoFascism' and related Acts of Criminality.

Postby DrEvil » Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:16 am

There’s nothing rational about climate ‘alarm’. It’s sheer propaganda, demonstrably.


And yet again you make this claim with nothing to back it up. You seem to be incapable of grasping that two things can be true at the same time: man made climate change is a big problem and corporate interests are exploiting it for their own gain.

My main gripe is and has been your continued denial of the science, not your complaints about corporate fuckery.
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Re: 'EcoFascism' and related Acts of Criminality.

Postby stickdog99 » Fri Mar 03, 2023 4:28 pm

When I Covered Climate Change for Reuters I Thought CO2 Was Certainly to Blame for Rising Temperatures. I Was Wrong

The BBC and the mainstream media regularly frighten everyone with the latest climate disaster news with pictures of floods, fires and hurricanes, always followed by scary predictions that things will only get worse unless mankind mends its irresponsible ways.

My alma mater Reuters, the global news agency, used to be above all this hysteria and would relentlessly apply its traditional standards of fairness and balance, but even this mainstream outfit seems to have sold out to the hysterics and axe grinders.

The trouble is, many if not all of these disaster stories, far from being another step in a worsening scenario, are often nothing of the kind. In a recent book Unsettled. What Climate Science Tells Us, What It Doesn’t, And Why It Matters, Steven Koonin uses the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change data to show that if reporters took the trouble to do a minimum amount of checking, most of these incidents would appear to be natural disasters, yes, but not part of some ever worsening syndrome.

Economist Bjorn Lomborg has been pointing out for years that humans are having an impact on the climate, but technology will be a match for any problems. Current Government plans to combat climate change will squander massive amounts of taxpayers’ money and achieve very little in terms of stopping rising global temperature, Lomborg says.

Warmist politicians and lobby groups regularly trash the work of a significant group of climate experts, insulting them with unfounded accusations that they can’t be taken seriously because they have barely perceptible links with ‘Big Oil’ and are ‘climate change deniers’. Criticisms are mainly personal and not aimed at their work. Koonin and Lomborg also suffer the unethical ‘denier’ slur, so let’s destroy that canard first.

Every scientist knows the world’s climate has been gradually and occasionally irregularly warming since the last Ice Age over about 10,000 years. Nobody denies the climate is changing. The ‘denier’ charge is nonsensical. But it performs the useful function of making clear the user knows nothing about climate science. The argument is about the ‘why’ not the ‘if’. Warmists say all the warming is because of man’s activity. The rest say some, a little or none.

Education is another area where balance has been replaced by hysteria-inducing propaganda. Children shown demonstrating on the news are often borderline hysterical. No doubt their teachers didn’t bother to tell them that man-made global warming is a theory not a proven fact, and that it’s okay to talk about different opinions.

If you wonder why much of the mainstream media seem united in accepting that the world will soon die unless humans don hair shirts, freeze in winter and walk instead of driving, you need to know about websites like Covering Climate Now (CCN).

Reuters and some of the biggest names in the news like Bloomberg, Agence France Presse, CBS News, and ABC News have signed up to support CCN, which brags that it is an unbiased seeker after the truth. But this claim won’t last long if you peer behind the façade. CCN may claim to be fair and balanced, but it not only won’t tolerate criticism, it brandishes the unethical ‘denier’ weapon with its nasty holocaust denier echoes. This seeks to demonise those who disagree with it by savaging personalities and denying a hearing, rather than using debate to establish its case.

CCN advises journalists to routinely add to stories about bad weather and flooding to suggest climate change is making these events more intense. This is not an established fact, as a simple routine check would show.

I asked CCN about the nature of its dealings with Reuters and the likes of Bloomberg. Was it to thrash out a general approach to climate change reporting or to be more partisan?

CCN hasn’t replied.

I have a particular interest in Reuters’ attitude because I spent 32 years there as a reporter and editor. The global news agency’s traditional insistence on high standards in reporting makes this liaison with CCN seem questionable.

When Reuters announced its tie-up with CCN in 2019 it said this, among other things.

The (CCN) coalition, which includes more than 350 organisations [there are many more now] has no agenda beyond embracing science and fair coverage and publishing more climate change content.


hat is clearly not true. It has a partisan agenda and encourages reporters to dismiss those with contrary opinions as ‘deniers’.

The statement went on to quote Reuters Editor-in-Chief Stephen J. Adler:

Reuters is committed to providing the most accurate and insightful coverage of the climate crisis, as it threatens the health, safety and economic well-being of people world-wide. Our hope is that our careful, factual reporting will help nations, businesses and individuals respond to the challenge rapidly and intelligently.


The idea of a ‘climate crisis’ is not widely accepted, but partisans shout about it. It is a very vague claim and hard to define or prove. By Reuters standards shouldn’t this include a balancing view? Certainly, many people believe that there is such a crisis, but lots of people don’t. The idea climate change threatens the health, safety and economic well-being of people worldwide is an assertion, not a fact.

The involvement of Reuters in CCN seems to me to be in direct contradiction to three of its 10 Hallmarks of Reuters Journalism – Hold Accuracy Sacrosanct, Seek Fair Comment, Strive For Balance and Freedom From Bias.

I asked Reuters for its reaction to criticism of its CCN involvement in a new book Not Zero by Ross Clark, published by Forum, and it said this in a statement.

Reuters is deeply committed to covering climate change and its impact on our planet with accuracy, independence and integrity, in keeping with the Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.


When I became Reuters global Science and Technology Correspondent in the mid-1990s, the global warming story was top of my agenda. Already by then the BBC was scaring us saying we would all die unless humankind mended its selfish ways. Carbon dioxide (CO2) was the culprit and had to be tamed, then eliminated. I had no reason to think this wasn’t established fact. I was wrong.

My Reuters credentials meant that I had easy access to the world’s finest climate scientists. To my amazement, none of these would say categorically that the link between CO2 and global warming, now known as climate change, was a proven scientific fact. Some said human production of CO2 was a probable cause, others that it might make some contribution; some said CO2 had no role at all. Everybody agreed that the climate had warmed over the last 10,000 years as the ice age retreated, but most weren’t really sure why. The sun’s radiation, which changes over time, was a favoured culprit.

My reporting reflected the wide range of views, with Reuters typical “on the one hand this, on the other, that” style. But even then, the mainstream media seem to have run out of the energy required, and often lazily went along with the BBC’s faulty, opinionated thesis. It was too much trouble to make the point that the BBC’s conclusion was challenged by many impressive scientists.

Fast forward 20 years and firm proof CO2 was warming the climate still hasn’t been established, but politics has taken over. Sure, there are plenty of computer models with their hidden assumptions ‘proving’ man is guilty as charged, and the assumption that we had the power and knowledge to change the climate became embedded.

The Left had lost all of the economic arguments by the 1990s, and its activists eagerly grabbed the chance to say free markets and small government couldn’t save us from climate change; only government intervention could do that. Letting capitalism run free was a certain way to ensure the end of the planet; smart Lefties should take charge and save us from ourselves.

The debate about climate change is far from over. I’m not a scientist so I don’t know enough to say it’s all man-made or not. But politicians and lobbyists have decided that we are all guilty. They are in the process of dismantling our way of life, ordering us to comply because it’s all for the future and our children. If we are going to give up our civilization, at the very least we ought to have an open debate. Journalists need to stand up and be counted. The trouble is that requires bravery and energy, and an urge to question conventional wisdom.

Reuters should be leading this movement. All it has to do is stand by its 10 Hallmarks. And maybe tell CCN thanks but no thanks; it needs to apply Reuters principles to its climate reporting.
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Re: 'EcoFascism' and related Acts of Criminality.

Postby DrEvil » Fri Mar 03, 2023 4:56 pm

The idea of a ‘climate crisis’ is not widely accepted


Not true. Just more of the same nonsense where if one or two scientists disagree with the thousand other scientists there's "debate" and "disagreement". While technically true it's also incredibly dishonest. By that logic it's not widely accepted that Jesus did in fact not ride around on dinosaurs.

The Left had lost all of the economic arguments by the 1990s, and its activists eagerly grabbed the chance to say free markets and small government couldn’t save us from climate change; only government intervention could do that. Letting capitalism run free was a certain way to ensure the end of the planet; smart Lefties should take charge and save us from ourselves.


Of course. It's those damn lefties making a power grab. If we would just compete harder all our troubles would be solved. All hail the golden bull!

Look at the bottom part of this graph to get an idea why people are worried.
https://xkcd.com/1732/
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Re: 'EcoFascism' and related Acts of Criminality.

Postby Belligerent Savant » Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:48 pm

Dr. Matthew M. Wielicki
@MatthewWielicki

My climate journey from true believer to staunch realist...

I always wanted to be a scientist after taking AP biology from Mr. Nelson in 1994. My original passion continued to be biology and I received a BS in biochemistry and cellular biology from @UCSanDiego and started working as a molecular biologist for a novel vaccine company in biotech beach. As an avid outdoorsman, I had always been drawn to nature and found myself longing to mix my love for the outdoors and my passion for science.
This led me to earth science and my eventual Ph.D. from @UCLA in isotope geochemistry. Throughout my years I was a firm believer that the planet was warming and that likely anthropogenic forcing was the main culprit. I was also confident that extreme weather and natural disasters were getting worse and that more people were dying every year due to the warming planet. In 2015 I had my first child and I started to view the world through a very different lens. As an immigrant from communist Poland, I was very fortunate to grow up in the US at a time of plentiful, cheap, and reliable energy.
This allowed for my childhood to have been spent traveling the world and even living in Somalia for one year in 1985. As I witnessed the war on fossil fuels due to catastrophic predictions of future weather I worried about what experiences my kids will not have that I cherish so much. If the planet was indeed heading for catastrophe then maybe that's just what they have to give up but I felt compelled to investigate it for myself. What I learned is that I could not find compelling evidence that by any metric could the current state of the climate be considered an emergency.
Warming rates were not unique and well within natural variability. CO2 concentrations were remarkably low as compared to the vast majority of world history. Extreme weather events, such as hurricanes, floods, droughts, tornadoes, etc., were not showing any trends that correlated with increasing anthropogenic GHGs. Human suffering and loss of life from these events were and remain at record lows. Coral reefs are healthy and spreading quickly. Yet each of these is portrayed in the exact opposite way by the MSM and many scientific institutions.
This negligent mischaracterization of the data was driving serious mental health and anxiety issues related to climate change in young people. The coupled, nonlinear, chaotic climate system was being distilled down to a single metric, anthropogenic GHG emissions, with little attention to the natural variability within the system. Thus, every weather event becomes more proof of anthropogenic global warming and any questions of this dogma makes one a denier.

So, after taking all of this into consideration I was convinced that there was no data to support the claim that the current state of the climate is an emergency and that the constant catastrophizing of the weather by MSM and governmental institutions was propaganda for money and power.

12:14 PM · Mar 1, 2023

https://twitter.com/MatthewWielicki/sta ... 98742?s=20
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Re: 'EcoFascism' and related Acts of Criminality.

Postby Belligerent Savant » Sun Mar 05, 2023 1:26 pm

Image

https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journ ... 0313.1.xml

...
5. Discussion

It is well established that Greenland T2m is strongly influenced by interannual to decadal variability in Greenland blocking, expressed by the GBI, and the NAO (Fettweis et al. 2013; van den Broeke et al. 2017; Hofer et al. 2017). GBI and NAO are highly negatively correlated (Davini et al. 2012). When NAO changes from a negative to a positive phase, this leads to a reduction of warm air transport to western Greenland (Buch et al. 2004). At the same time, northwestern Europe will get warmer, which is often referred to as the temperature seesaw (van Loon and Rogers 1978). In contrast, the positive phase of GBI constitutes high pressure blocking and anticyclonic weather (Hanna et al. 2018), with southwesterly winds transporting warm air masses northward (Mioduszewski et al. 2016), leading to a warm phase, especially in western Greenland.

In this study we report a significant jump in Greenland near-surface air temperature (T2m) around 1994, with relatively stable temperatures in the periods before (1958–93) and after (1994–2020). Exceptions are the north and northeast of Greenland, where the latter period shows continued warming. Large-scale atmospheric circulation variability can effectively explain this interdecadal variability of Greenland T2m. Figure 11 shows time series (1958–2020) of annual mean GBI and NAO. Until the mid-1980s, the magnitude of both indices was relatively small and variations mainly of interannual nature. For the decade between the early 1980s and the early 1990s, the GBI and NAO indices respectively became significantly negative and positive, coinciding with the cool phase in most of Greenland. In addition, before the warming jump in 1994, there were several large volcanic eruptions, like Agung (1963), El Chichón (1980), Mount St. Helens (1982), and Pinatubo (1991), as indicated in Fig. 11. Large amounts of sulfate aerosols injected into the stratosphere following large volcanic eruptions in the tropical Pacific Ocean lead to different temperature responses in different regions (Robock 2000). In Greenland, this results in a notable cooling (Kobashi et al. 2017), as confirmed in Fig. 11, where each eruption is followed by cooling in the following year. It has been shown that increased stratospheric volcanic aerosol loading intensifies the polar vortices, shifting the NAO into its positive phase (Stenchikov et al. 2002; Christiansen 2008; Wunderlich and Mitchell 2017), further enhancing cold conditions in Greenland in the following year. Box (2002) found that the cooling still persisted in Greenland after removing the NAO signal, possibly related to the direct cooling effect of enhanced aerosol concentrations.

...

The shift to positive GBI and negative NAO after 1994 initiated a multidecadal period of warm conditions and enhanced melt, especially in western Greenland. More frequent and stronger high pressure blocking over Greenland means increasing anticyclonic conditions over western Greenland (Mioduszewski et al. 2016). Since the 1990s, the number of anticyclonic blocking events has doubled (Fettweis et al. 2013), resulting in warm air masses from the south being frequently advected northward along the western side of the GrIS (Tedesco and Fettweis 2020). As a result, the western regions warm faster in summer than the east (Fig. 6b), in line with Hanna et al. (2012). The associated high temperatures and clear skies lead to strongly enhanced ice sheet melt rates, especially in western Greenland (Hanna et al. 2016). Under blocking conditions, air masses cross the northern GrIS to the northeast, regionally resulting in foehn conditions. Mattingly et al. (2018) found that this possibly caused of the largest melt event in the northeast in JJA of the past 20 years. Figure 5a shows that after 1994 the north of Greenland was warming faster than the south. A possible reason is the northward movement of the blocking pattern (Rajewicz and Marshall 2014; McLeod and Mote 2016), enhancing the sensitivity to the GBI in the north, especially in SON when it increased from 1.4°C perσ GBI to 2°C per σ GBI.

Although it has been shown that volcanic activity can affect the NAO/GBI in the short-term period, causes of multidecadal atmospheric circulation anomalies remain elusive. For instance, the connection between NAO and Atlantic multidecadal variability (AMV) remains a contentious issue (Keenlyside et al. 2016; Klavans et al. 2019). Davini et al. (2015) showed that a negative or positive NAO phase was often accompanied by the positive or negative AMV phase, respectively. In addition, it has been reported that the multidecadal Atlantic meridional overturning circulation also impacts NAO by affecting AMV (Zhang et al. 2019). The various AMV indices all show that AMV has changed into a continuous positive phase since the mid-1990s (Peings et al. 2016). This is consistent with the continuous negative phase of NAO since that time and suggests that AMV indirectly influences interdecadal changes in Greenland T2m by regulating NAO/GBI. Moreover, the forcing effect of volcanic eruptions on NAO discussed previously is also amplified by the AMV negative phase (Ménégoz et al. 2018), leading to amplified cooling in Greenland.

Although since 2011 GBI and NAO have shifted toward, respectively, a more negative and a more positive phase, they have also remained highly variable, with recently more modest values and reduced warming. Ruan et al. (2019) suggested that this could temporarily slow down but likely not stop the future long-term warming in Greenland and mass loss of the GrIS. As shown in Fig. 11, recent variability in NAO and GBI predominantly promotes warming. Although CMIP5 and CMIP6 projections suggest a decrease of the GBI until 2100 (Delhasse et al. 2021), the models severely underestimate contemporary blocking frequency, making these modeled trends and variability uncertain. Therefore, the future trend of Greenland T2m and the role played by the large-scale circulation currently remain uncertain.

6. Conclusions
Near-surface air temperature (T2m), especially summer T2m, to a large extent determines the length and intensity of the melt season in Greenland, affecting the mass balance of the ice sheet. In this study, we use observed T2m from DMI stations in the ice-free coastal zone and PROMICE AWS on the ice sheet to evaluate the atmospheric reanalysis ERA5 and the regional climate model RACMO2.3p2 over Greenland. We use the latter product to show that Greenland warming is well represented by a temperature jump of ∼1°C in 1994, with relatively constant temperatures before and after. The southwest was the region with the strongest negative T2m anomaly before 1994, whereas the northeast shows a persistent temperature increase after 1994. In terms of seasonal and regional differences in temperature changes, winter shows the strongest warming in 1994. The regional influence of the large-scale circulation, represented by the indices for NAO and GBI, on T2m and changes therein is very strong. The region with the strongest sensitivity is the southwest, with the influence gradually weakening toward the northeast and even weakly reversed in the far coastal northeast.

Future research on near-surface air temperature changes in Greenland should focus on further elucidating these complex relationships that either enhance or limit the response of Greenland climate to global warming.


No mention of C02 as a primary factor.
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Re: 'EcoFascism' and related Acts of Criminality.

Postby stickdog99 » Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:41 pm

DrEvil » 03 Mar 2023 20:56 wrote:
The idea of a ‘climate crisis’ is not widely accepted


Not true. Just more of the same nonsense where if one or two scientists disagree with the thousand other scientists there's "debate" and "disagreement". While technically true it's also incredibly dishonest. By that logic it's not widely accepted that Jesus did in fact not ride around on dinosaurs.

The Left had lost all of the economic arguments by the 1990s, and its activists eagerly grabbed the chance to say free markets and small government couldn’t save us from climate change; only government intervention could do that. Letting capitalism run free was a certain way to ensure the end of the planet; smart Lefties should take charge and save us from ourselves.


Of course. It's those damn lefties making a power grab. If we would just compete harder all our troubles would be solved. All hail the golden bull!

Look at the bottom part of this graph to get an idea why people are worried.
https://xkcd.com/1732/


Again, the scary part is the model projections. How did those work out for COVID, WTC-7 collapse by fire, the California drought, and arctic ice?

Note that I am not saying that we should not try to limit human effect on the atmosphere. But I am saying that reports of the Earth's imminent demise that I have now heard for over 50 years have been exaggerated. 2025 is right around the corner. Can anyone remind me what the most alarmist models predicted about 2025 sea levels, global temperature, and ice sheet coverage in 1995?
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Re: 'EcoFascism' and related Acts of Criminality.

Postby identity » Mon Mar 06, 2023 3:07 am

As mentioned here:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=41979&start=6255#p707221

I am looking to fill in the cracks of my all-things-COVID-1984/TGR-related library. I am missing more titles in the AGW scam category than any other. Most of the titles below have no free/paid subscription availability, or are only available in hardcopy.
I can provide digital copies or scans of desired/desirable titles in exchange for scans or digital copies of any of these.
Please PM if you can help. Thanks!


Punch-Drunk on Co2...Dizzy from Spin
Catastrophic Man-Made Global Warming Sustainable Hypothesis Or Unsustainable Hoax?
By Peter Sullivan · 2013

United nations climate liars by Christian Gerondeau

Climate: The Great Delusion: A Study of the Climatic, Economic and Political Unrealities by Christian Gerondeau

Politics and Climate Change: A History by Andy May

The Great Climate Change Debate: Karoly v Happer by Andy May

Climate Catastrophe! Science or Science Fiction? Andy May · 2022

Warmism as an ideology: soft science and hard doctrine by Rémy Prud'homme

Scapegoat CO2: A plea for a vital gas by Markus Häring

Unsettled Science: A Climate Change Denier's Handbook - Ian Hall · 2019

Climate: the Counter Consensus by Professor Robert M. Carter

The Troubled Rhetoric and Communication of Climate Change_ The Argumentative Situation
By Philip Eubanks · 2015

Roosters of the Apocalypse: How the Junk Science of Global Warming is Bankrupting the Western World (New, Revised and Expanded Edition) by Rael Jean Isaac

Green Murder by Ian Plimer

Dumb Energy: A Critique of Wind and Solar Energy by Norman Rogers

The IPCC: A scientific body? by Drieu Godefridi

Global Warming-Alarmists, Skeptics and Deniers: A Geoscientist Looks at the Science of Climate Change by G. Dedrick Robinson Ph.D.

The Inconvenient Skeptic: The Comprehensive Guide to the Earth's Climate by John Kehr

Air Con: The Seriously Inconvenient Truth About Global Warming by Ian Wishart

How Dare You! by Peter Foster

Climategate The CRUtape Letters by Steve Mosher, Thomas Fuller

Exposing The Climate Hoax: It's ALL About The Economy by John P. Reisman

Climate Change Baffles Brains
Climate Charlatans Commit Intellectual Fraud on Reason
By L. Rowand Archer · 2019

The Greenhouse Delusion
A Critique of "Climate Change 2001"
By Vincent Gray · 2002

The Global Warming Scam: and the Climate Change Superscam by Vincent Gray

In Global Warming We Trust by Anthony J. Sadar

Man-made Global Warming - Unravelling a Dogma by Hans H. J. Labohm, Simon Rozendaal, Dick Thoenes

Revolution: Ice Age Re-Entry by Carlton Brown

Global Warming: Alarmists, Skeptics & Deniers; A Geoscientist looks at the Science of Climate Change by G Dedrick Robinson

In Praise of Carbon: How We’ve Been Misled Into Believing that Carbon Dioxide Causes Climate Change by David Bennett Laing

The Real Inconvenient Truth: It's Warming: but it's Not CO2: The case for human-caused global warming and climate change is based on lies, deceit, and manipulation by M J Sangster PhD

The Truth about Energy, Global Warming, and Climate Change: Exposing Climate Lies in an Age of Disinformation by Jerome R. Corsi Ph.D.

The Climate Change Hoax Argument: the history and science that expose a major international deception by C. Paul Smith

Eco-imperialism: Green Power, Black Death by Paul Driessen

Climate of Extremes_ Global Warming Science They Don't Want You to Know
By Patrick J. Michaels, Robert C. Balling · 2009

Inconvenient Facts: The Science That Al Gore Doesn't Want You to Know by Gregory Wrightstone
We should never forget Galileo being put before the Inquisition.
It would be even worse if we allowed scientific orthodoxy to become the Inquisition.

Richard Smith, Editor in Chief of the British Medical Journal 1991-2004,
in a published letter to Nature
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Re: 'EcoFascism' and related Acts of Criminality.

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:28 pm

Image
Image
Image


Glacier National Park is replacing signs that predicted its glaciers would be gone by 2020

By Christina Maxouris and Andy Rose, CNN
Updated 3:09 PM EST, Wed January 8, 2020

The signs at Glacier National Park warning that its signature glaciers would be gone by 2020 are being changed.

The signs in the Montana park were added more than a decade ago to reflect climate change forecasts at the time by the US Geological Survey, park spokeswoman Gina Kurzmen told CNN.

In 2017, the park was told by the agency that the complete melting off of the glaciers was no longer expected to take place so quickly due to changes in the forecast model, Kurzmen said. But tight maintenance budgets made it impossible for the park to immediately change the signs.


https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/08/us/g ... index.html
Last edited by Belligerent Savant on Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 'EcoFascism' and related Acts of Criminality.

Postby DrEvil » Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:31 pm

stickdog99 » Sun Mar 05, 2023 8:41 pm wrote:
DrEvil » 03 Mar 2023 20:56 wrote:
The idea of a ‘climate crisis’ is not widely accepted


Not true. Just more of the same nonsense where if one or two scientists disagree with the thousand other scientists there's "debate" and "disagreement". While technically true it's also incredibly dishonest. By that logic it's not widely accepted that Jesus did in fact not ride around on dinosaurs.

The Left had lost all of the economic arguments by the 1990s, and its activists eagerly grabbed the chance to say free markets and small government couldn’t save us from climate change; only government intervention could do that. Letting capitalism run free was a certain way to ensure the end of the planet; smart Lefties should take charge and save us from ourselves.


Of course. It's those damn lefties making a power grab. If we would just compete harder all our troubles would be solved. All hail the golden bull!

Look at the bottom part of this graph to get an idea why people are worried.
https://xkcd.com/1732/


Again, the scary part is the model projections. How did those work out for COVID, WTC-7 collapse by fire, the California drought, and arctic ice?

Note that I am not saying that we should not try to limit human effect on the atmosphere. But I am saying that reports of the Earth's imminent demise that I have now heard for over 50 years have been exaggerated. 2025 is right around the corner. Can anyone remind me what the most alarmist models predicted about 2025 sea levels, global temperature, and ice sheet coverage in 1995?


The scary part (of the XKCD graph) is the last bit of measurements leading up to the projections. The graph basically takes a hard right turn, completely out of wack compared to the preceding twenty thousand years, and it just so happens to line up with industrial civilization kicking into high gear.

As for sea level projections, the IPCC underestimated it up until 2011 (they assumed melting in Greenland would be offset by gains in Antarctica. Turns out they're both melting). They estimated 2mm per year, while in reality it is 3.2mm per year (and increasing).
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... estimates/
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Re: 'EcoFascism' and related Acts of Criminality.

Postby DrEvil » Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:53 pm

Belligerent Savant » Mon Mar 06, 2023 11:28 pm wrote:Image
Image
Image


Glacier National Park is replacing signs that predicted its glaciers would be gone by 2020

By Christina Maxouris and Andy Rose, CNN
Updated 3:09 PM EST, Wed January 8, 2020

The signs at Glacier National Park warning that its signature glaciers would be gone by 2020 are being changed.

The signs in the Montana park were added more than a decade ago to reflect climate change forecasts at the time by the US Geological Survey, park spokeswoman Gina Kurzmen told CNN.

In 2017, the park was told by the agency that the complete melting off of the glaciers was no longer expected to take place so quickly due to changes in the forecast model, Kurzmen said. But tight maintenance budgets made it impossible for the park to immediately change the signs.


https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/08/us/g ... index.html


That picture comparison is completely useless, and if you think it isn't, please explain why there seems to have been significant sea level rise between the 2016 image and the last and presumably most recent one.

From the same CNN article you linked:

In 2017, a study released by USGS and Portland State University said that in the past half century, some of the ice formations in Montana had lost 85% of their size and the average shrinkage was 39%.


But hey, you can still see some ice, so nothing to worry about.
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Re: 'EcoFascism' and related Acts of Criminality.

Postby DrEvil » Mon Mar 06, 2023 7:45 pm

Belligerent Savant » Sun Mar 05, 2023 7:26 pm wrote:Image

https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journ ... 0313.1.xml

...
5. Discussion

...snip...

Future research on near-surface air temperature changes in Greenland should focus on further elucidating these complex relationships that either enhance or limit the response of Greenland climate to global warming.


No mention of C02 as a primary factor.


That's not what the paper is about. Researching the natural variations of Greenland doesn't mean there is no global warming.

They say "background warming" or "global warming" when talking about climate change, like this (or the above sentence I left in):

This suggests that in a background warming climate, T2m in Greenland has become more sensitive to variability in circulation, as reported by Hanna et al. (2021).
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Re: 'EcoFascism' and related Acts of Criminality.

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Mar 06, 2023 8:13 pm

DrEvil:
please explain why there seems to have been significant sea level rise between the 2016 image and the last and presumably most recent one.


Far as I can see, there's no indications in those photos that there's any "significant" rise. Of course there are a number of photographic aspects that may skew perspective, etc. But these photos on their own are not the sole data points for reference; there are myriad similar examples that can be presented here of locales that have exhibited little/no variation to sea level, certainly not to the degree clamored by the climate ALARMISTS. Many of their predictions Re: sea level rise % turned out to be grossly miscalculated (to put it charitably).

I've little doubt a comparison of the actual data (if available) will demonstrate a similar result (minimal sea level variation). That aside, any fluctuation and/or variation in sea levels on a given region have many potential explanations apart from C02 levels, at least as primary factor.

Re: the CNN article -- the key take-away is they took down the signs. There is a reason they took down the (scare-mongering) signs. In part because the scare tactics were exposed as inaccurate as time passed. A consistent theme repeated often when it comes to this topic.

DrEvil:
That's not what the paper is about. Researching the natural variations of Greenland doesn't mean there is no global warming.

They say "background warming" or "global warming" when talking about climate change, like this (or the above sentence I left in):

This suggests that in a background warming climate, T2m in Greenland has become more sensitive to variability in circulation, as reported by Hanna et al. (2021)
.


Again: my argument was never that there is no warming. There may very well be warming. My (evolving) argument -- which appears more compelling as time progresses -- is that there is no cause for climate ALARM, and that any warming is NOT due PRIMARILY to C02 levels; as such, any "lockdown"/restrictive measures imposed on citizens are affronts to fundamental rights. And that warming will not be cause for drastic alarm or action.

That aside, I'm all for pollution limitations, focusing firstly on those regions (China, etc) and large corporate entities responsible for much of the world's pollution. Average humans are NOT even close to a threat compared to these other entities.

MODELS, historically, have not been good predictors. This should be clear by now.

[Edit: attempted to soften rhetoric a bit]
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Re: 'EcoFascism' and related Acts of Criminality.

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue Mar 07, 2023 6:32 am

That water is tidal.

Its just ridiculous to compare random photos of bits of coastline subject to tides without any discussion of tides.

The early stages of sea level rise are characterised by more king tides and coastal erosion.

BS have you ever been outside a man made environment for any extended period of time? Of even out doors for more than a few hours?
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Re: 'EcoFascism' and related Acts of Criminality.

Postby Belligerent Savant » Tue Mar 07, 2023 11:03 am

.

If you actually read my response you'll see I acknowledged the numerous factors involved in the flaws of photographic evidence alone.

There were other nuances -- and many other examples, like the fucking Maldives, already addressed here -- that were raised.

BS have you ever been outside a man made environment for any extended period of time? Of even out doors for more than a few hours?


That's just a stupid query, for a number of reasons, primarily because you have precisely zero insight or info on where I've lived or where I've been in my life. If this is your approach to 'analysis' -- and at times, it appears it is -- it's no wonder some of your 'conclusions' are what they are.

I've traveled across the U.S.; traveled to parts of Asia, Europe, and Latin America. As a first generation American I have family in Europe and South America, and have spent extended time in these regions throughout my life (both in lower-class and upper-class environments, dwellings and settings). All of this, combined with my own reading and research, informs my assessments of any given topic.

Here is a piece from Forbes, to cite from a mainstream source -- of course Forbes is no less immune to the standard expectations of disinfo/misinfo for mainstream press, but it contains some noteworthy information that should be considered here.

This article is from a time before climate-related rhetoric fully 'jumped the shark' as it has the last ~3 or so years. (though some can claim 'climate alarm' rhetoric has been unhinged for far longer)

[Removed an article here because it included an interview with an Environmental Scientist who was against the Climate ‘Alarm’ dogma. I removed it because there are claims in Wikipedia that this scientist may have participated in a meeting funded by the oil and gas lobby. These claims haven't been substantiated but of course will be utilized to discredit any actual merit to the statements made by this Environmental Scientist. There is a tendency to discredit based on 'guilt by association' -- even if associations aren't firmly established -- rather than apply critique to the merits of statements/claims directly.]
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