Vectors of Contagion, DU & Pontypool

[barracuda]

Alice, endorsing Atzmon's view that:

...used to justify building a state in which this psychosis could be incubated using the Jews as human vehicles, then unleashed, first against the Palestinians, but eventually against everybody else.

In my opinion, the above is not acceptable. I don't think we should allow an ethnic or so-called racial group to be portrayed as a biological weapon system. The imagery is straight from Body Snatchers and both draws from and reinforces the strange ideas that Jews are a race, and an inherently dangerous one. If she had even said 'the citizens of Israel', instead of 'the Jews', or maybe even 'jewish citizens of Israel', or perhaps just 'zionists' or 'zionist citizens of Israel', which is not coterminous with 'the Jews'. But I don't feel that it is right to use an ethnic identifier in that context. These may seem like trivial differences in wording, but their impact can be significant.

The other bothersome thing is that Alice is essentially saying that Atzmon, because he has become a critic of zionism, has come out of his trance, as if he had been rescued from an abusive brain-washing cult. And it isn't immediately clear from her language or Atzmon's, whether that cult is zionism or jewishness. Which leaves open the door that many will take by default, that the cult is in fact jewishness. And given the not very subtle implications of the rest of the post, the Jews will be understood as mostly biological prisoners of that cult, from which Mr. Atzmon has miraculously and atypically escaped.

From all this, I must reluctanctly conclude that the post, at least, is fundamentally racist, whether consciously or not. I am not sure how to address this.

Yeah, that kinda shit is against the rules here, folks. You might begin by posting your comments above to the thread in question with an admonition regarding the posting guidelines as you interpret them. Alice does herself no service by her enthusiastic backing of Atzmon. I'd kinda like to see a ruling or comment of some sort by Our Fearless Leader regarding some of this crap, nudge nudge. At least here on this thread. Because that thread is threatening to turn into a nice, reasoned, pedantic discussion of exactly why the Protocols of the Elders of Zion turned out to be such a useful, prescient document after all.

[Bruce Dazzling]

Alice, endorsing Atzmon's view that:

...used to justify building a state in which this psychosis could be incubated using the Jews as human vehicles, then unleashed, first against the Palestinians, but eventually against everybody else.

In my opinion, the above is not acceptable. I don't think we should allow an ethnic or so-called racial group to be portrayed as a biological weapon system. The imagery is straight from Body Snatchers and both draws from and reinforces the strange ideas that Jews are a race, and an inherently dangerous one. If she had even said 'the citizens of Israel', instead of 'the Jews', or maybe even 'jewish citizens of Israel', or perhaps just 'zionists' or 'zionist citizens of Israel', which is not coterminous with 'the Jews'. But I don't feel that it is right to use an ethnic identifier in that context. These may seem like trivial differences in wording, but their impact can be significant.

The other bothersome thing is that Alice is essentially saying that Atzmon, because he has become a critic of zionism, has come out of his trance, as if he had been rescued from an abusive brain-washing cult. And it isn't immediately clear from her language or Atzmon's, whether that cult is zionism or jewishness. Which leaves open the door that many will take by default, that the cult is in fact jewishness. And given the not very subtle implications of the rest of the post, the Jews will be understood as mostly biological prisoners of that cult, from which Mr. Atzmon has miraculously and atypically escaped.

From all this, I must reluctanctly conclude that the post, at least, is fundamentally racist, whether consciously or not. I am not sure how to address this.

I disagree, Doc.

I believe that Alice is endorsing the view that Jewish people who live in Israel have been psychologically manipulated, in the same way that one might say that Americans have been psychologically manipulated into backing the racist war on terror, or the Germans were manipulated under the Nazi regime into implementing the final solution.

I think it's fair to say that Americans have been infected with a psychosis and then unleashed upon Iraq, Afghanistan, et al. I think it's also fair to suggest that the same thing happened to the German people under the Nazis.

Alice doesn't seem to be endorsing the view that this manipulation is only possible because of their Jewishness. She's endorsing the view that Israeli Jews are the target population for the manipulation, as opposed to the Israeli Palestinians -- that's the purpose for the distinction.

He doesn't "hate Jews", he hates what's been done to them and what's being done to them, because it was done to him before his passion for music provided a key that allowed him to escape from his trance.

But don't take my word for. Ask her to elaborate on her position.

[DrVolin]

I think I'll do that.

[barracuda]

Pish. Alice is anti-semitic. It's okay to like her anyway, how could you not? But there's not much point in acting like it isn't so.

[Peregrine]

Pish. Alice is anti-semitic. It's okay to like her anyway, how could you not? But there's not much point in acting like it isn't so.

Um, I do not feel she is. But I think when I have more time I am going to have to re-read that entire thread. Time seems to be something I don't have a whole lot of this week. I will get back to you on that one. Eyeno, on the other hand, I wanna punch the computer screen again...

[DrVolin]

I don't know whether she is or not, but I strongly feel that the post itself is. And the thread is not exactly exemplary, although there are some strong protests in there.

[Wombaticus Rex]

Upping because moons and solar cycles are bringing us round again and there was some great discussion on page 1.

Today, for me, has been a reminder to engage a little less. Being in the middle of shit makes it impossible for me to moderate the conversation I'm in the middle of.

[DrVolin]

I think Jerky needs a time out. Opinions?

[DrVolin]

I've also PMed AD to stop trolling Jerky on the matter, that the mods are on it.

[Wombaticus Rex]

Definitely, everything post this: http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/ ... 79#p509579

has been WTF territory -- he might be making a point but the phrasing couldn't...possibly...be worse