David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

[compared2what?]

Icke still traffics in Rothschild Zionism theory to this day...

Indeed he does, and Im still waiting for a response from yourself as to how you believe it has come to pass that 80% of the UKs leading political party are "friends of Israel".

The short answer is: It's not explicable by Rothschild Zionism theory alone. Or even by any one clear primary thing, per a fair/balanced standard.

So it's lying by omission to say otherwise. And that's a much more serious problem than the whole belief-in-reptoids-acts-as-a-gateway-drug-for-more-actively-dangerous-paradigms-of-that-kind thing is, imo.

(Not to say that it mightn't do the latter sometimes. But pot might sometimes act as a gateway to heroin, too -- ie, doesn't mean it's always the problem worth concentrating all your energies on, or that nothing gets lost by doing so, etc. However, it might sometimes be a problem. And there's nothing wrong with judiciously bearing that in mind. Can't hurt.)

[barracuda]

If somebody earnestly believes, defends or supports Icke in some way, why would it be disingenuous to ask if the earnestness extends to a belief in alien-human hybrids?

Again, this is not the issue. The issue is whether or not there is evidence, and whether or not you are able to counter that evidence. You know the evidence, you mentioned it yourself. So can you counter it or not?

[Canadian_watcher]

Well I guess I'm the only one that feels personally insulted by AD's insistence that anyone who doesn't dismiss Icke whole cloth is a feeble minded unwitting anti-semite/racist. I suppose I am the only one who is annoyed that he's getting away with it be feigning ignorance and the only one (besides SLAD who has now left over this) who feels that his grandiose attempts to 'save us from ourselves' are over wrought and highly inflammatory.

Yes? because the ire of the board seems to be centering on MIB who I couldn't give two shits about, personally. He'll get bored and leave soon. I think MIB is a happy little coincidence cover story for the main offender.

[Mason I Bilderberg]

Bullshit. Cut to the fucking chase and quit dicking around.

Again: If you believe, defend or support Icke in some way, do you believe alien-human hybrids exist(ed)?

And yes, Inspector Clouseau, discussing credible evidence would be a logical follow-up to a "yes" answer.

[barracuda]

And again, can you answer the question: what is your counterpoint to the evidence - eyewitnesses - that these creatures exist?

[barracuda]

Am I asking too much? I don't think so.

[slimmouse]

The short answer is: It's not explicable by Rothschild Zionism theory alone. Or even by any one clear primary thing, per a fair/balanced standard.

Well of course its not that simple. It never is, but its there and we need some smart minds to give us some answers as to why this has come to pass.

As for the whole racist deal, II actually like Ickes take on it. Christian, Jew, Muslim, American, English, Liberal, Conservative, ad infinitum are all being played against each other and consequeantly getting fucked over by a very tiny few.

To him, rather like myself, theyre just a load of made up names when you get right down to it.

Every last category of the 99.9% are humans first, and as such we should realise that we're all in this together.

Edited to add - If we understood this, then it wouldnt really matter much what the teflon coated 0.01% who perpetuate so much of this shit are.

[compared2what?]

Do you believe a human-alien hybrid exists, or has ever existed, in a tangible, walking and talking form?

Yes. But it's not up to you to decide what I mean as "yes". "EVER EXISTED" is a lot different than have they existed in the past and or will THEY EXIST in the future. You got a non starter, man. Just telling you.

When do you believe they existed and what is the evidence?

As far as I know and according to your rubric, you fit the bill for a reptilian alien-human hybrid. I welcome you to prove otherwise. See what I (we) are getting at here yet?

That which is is asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

^^true. And it's a HUGE obstacle, from a practical activism perspective. Insurmountable, even, though that might change. It wouldn't be a good thing if it did, though. No limits. So no security for anyone.

[American Dream]

...AD's insistence that anyone who doesn't dismiss Icke whole cloth is a feeble minded unwitting anti-semite/racist.

This is your straw man, it has little to nothing to do with what I actually think.

Can we recreate the incident way back when that originally offended you? Maybe then it will jog a memory for one or both of us...

[brekin]

CW wrote:

THAT post (are you paying attention, AD) is why AD ought to be sanctioned at this point, because he is most definitely saying that a handful of posters here are so stupid that they don't know they are racists. AND he's implied it repeatedly throughout this WHOLE thread and every other thread that has ever mentioned Icke.

Really, there is no rule for claiming people may not have considered all the ramifications of their beliefs. And if anything you need to give it to AD for remaining so civil and polite and under case in his responses.

CW wrote:

take the chip off your shoulder and the blinders off your eyes and you'll see that MANY people have answered the questions already. It might not be the black/white answer you or he want, but why should it? Is this the inquisition? Is this a test to see if any of us qualify for some mysterious club? What is the POINT of demanding an answer? Why are you supporting the side that has no business asking instead of the side that claims a right to abstain?
You know what else? From my perspective the board has not come unglued at all - in fact it seems very much unified at this time compared to MANY others.

Oh, I've seen whose answered and who hasn't and it has all gone into the Mysterious club proceedings. The whole point in asking the question is what the thread is about. Some people think Icke is a madman(or fraud or well meaning delusional), some don't. You can't have a conversation without stating your position. Or is just becomes sniping. Like in a climate change thread. If I don't believe in it and continually dismiss evidence from posters, and malign them, then at some point someone is going to ask "Do you believe in climate change or not?" And then I can say yes or no and provide my rationale why. Or I can scream at them: Is this the inquisition?

brekin wrote:
How about photographs, videos, eyewitness accounts from more than one witness of the same event, audio recordings, dna samples, skeletons, skin moltings, artifacts, technology, etc How about any evidence other than what Icke says and those who are likeminded. I would like to know what evidence convinced those who agree with Icke convinced them? If it was just something he said that clicked - well that happens in churches everyday with people.

CW wrote:
It also happens every day with regards to a lot of scientific things that I'll bet you've never actually seen any evidence of and don't understand fully even if you read up on it. Not to mention that once again we're back here at a point where some of us aren't bound and gagged by the "scientific' model of accepted evidence. Like for example if my husband ran up from the basement and told me he'd just seen a rat, but then we couldn't find one, do you think I'd tell him I need fucking photos in order to believe him?

Well your husband is not under any obligation to prove there was a rat because rats are commonly accepted to exist. You've seen them first hand, there is documentary evidence, they are understood to live in basements, etc. But if your husband ran up and said he saw a reptile-human hybrid in the basement then you would totally be right in needing photos to believe him. Because reptile-human hybrids are not commonly accepted to exist and if he is claiming to see one, the responsibility is on him to provide some evidence because they are something completely new, and totally paradigm changing, if he can't we think he is mistaken or lying because a much more simpler, common reason would probably explain his sighting.

CW wrote:

If I came home and there was a giant puddle of tomato juice in the middle of my floor and I cleaned it up without taking a video of it first should people just AUTOMATICALLY think I'm lying if I report it to them without being able to give them the first clue as to WHY or HOW it got there?????

Again, a puddle of tomato juice is a little different than claiming alien-human hybrids secretly control the world.

CW wrote:

yeah, so both you AND he think you are so much more intelligent and enlightened than so many of the rest of us.
at least we know where you stand now. Do you understand what I mean? Am I going too fast?

Well, I didn't want to go into this now. But AD and I are from the future. Entertainment of Icke's primitive ideas has caused all kinds of havoc in the future earth timeline. We have been sent to (sorry no other word for it) enlighten you. We are just here to help. We are just doing our jobs.

[compared2what?]

The short answer is: It's not explicable by Rothschild Zionism theory alone. Or even by any one clear primary thing, per a fair/balanced standard.

Well of course its not that simple. It never is, but its there and we need some smart minds to give us some answers as to why this has come to pass.

As for the whole racist deal, II actually like Ickes take on it. Christian, Jew, Muslim, American, English, Liberal, Conservative, ad infinitum are all being played against each other and consequeantly getting fucked over by a very tiny few.

To him, rather like myself, theyre just a load of made up names when you get right down to it.

Every last category of the 99.9% are humans first, and as such we should realise that we're all in this together.

If that's the take-away for you -- and I don't see why it couldn't be for you and for others -- and you find it fortifying or inspiring or, you know, useful as a resource in that way as a personal belief system, I don't see how anybody could possibly object to it. Or have standing to. It has real value, including practical value of a kind.

It's not the right tool for every job. But as long as you know that -- or are reasonably open to knowing it on an as-required basis, same as everyone -- that's not a problem in itself. It's just a limitation.

There are probably some other drawbacks, too. But whatever. All belief systems have their share. None works for everyone. And happily, as long as people don't live in segregation by belief system, they'll probably all have a fair opportunity to consider the drawbacks of theirs. So there you go.

[Mason I Bilderberg]

barracuda, Wombacticus Rex, why all the drama with/about MIB?

It is obvious some people on the forum believe or are highly sympathetic to the idea that alien/humans hybrids are running the world no matter how much you want to dismiss/minimize that fact. This thread wouldn't have gotten past page 2 if not. Probably would have 20 less pages if they were more forthcoming earlier. But good for them, I'm all for diversity of opinion.

Obviously MIB (judging from his site) is of the "ha ha I've debunked your silly superstition" school and was just cruising for familiar material. Are you mad because we provided him some here at RI? Honestly (and no offense MIB) his agenda seems pretty simple and obvious. I doubt he's even fishing (or aware) of Icke's purported racist or anti-semitic angles and the reptile/human hybrid is enough for him to play gotcha with.

We can meta-meta MIB's intentions and how he asks the question perpetually and get mad at him because he makes some regulars have hissy fits but in the end the question remains the same, and is a simple one.

Dear R.I. Do you really believe in lizard men?

You summarized me pretty good. My approach is not all that complicated. I try to take complex matters and breaking them down into simple questions for easier understanding. I see it as similar to learning anything else - start with a solid foundation and build up from there. Well, here we have a foundation of human-alien hybrids. Before we build anymore, i need somebody to explain this foundation. Where else to have this human-alien hybrid thing explained than to find somebody who believes. Makes sense.

I am aware of Icke's purported racist or anti-semitic angles, but I sincerely believe the man to be psychotic, and so i have never dug too deep into these other elements of his personality.

[compared2what?]

...AD's insistence that anyone who doesn't dismiss Icke whole cloth is a feeble minded unwitting anti-semite/racist.

This is your straw man, it has little to nothing to do with what I actually think.

...

If people feel like that's what's being said about them, some sensitivity is understandable. But that's a lot more all or nothing than anything I've seen anyone argue (including the TJ Clark blogger and MY MAN Farkas, whatever his first name was). And AD certainly hasn't been insisting it.

Can we recreate the incident way back when that originally offended you? Maybe then it will jog a memory for one or both of us...

Might just have been a misstatement. But I think that's a fair request.

[Searcher08]

That said, racism and "anti-Semitism" really do exist and they do have a lot to do with the concerns about David Icke, about Gilad Atzmon and about other fundamental issues that these three defenders seem to completely ignore, minimize and/or actively invalidate. And that is a problem within the context of this board- not the only problem- but a very, very real one...

This is precisely why I have raised your specific behaviour on this thread towards particularly SLAD and also slimmouse with the Mods, something I have never IIRC done on R.I. before.

At least now it is out in the open at long last, despite your previous denials that you viewed SLAD, slim or myself in this way.

Providing specific quotes is important and you should be willing to undergo the same scrutiny yourself.

I am more than willing to do that, this one though is about your behaviour to SLAD and slim.
This is not your Board. This is Jeff Wells board. My interactions with you on this thread have
been about either answering detailed specific questions on what I think or know about certain things including
Arizona Wilder
Cathy O'Brien
Alien/human hybrids

I feel sad around this as the communication structure you have set up, the Infinite Loop structure (which Elvis recognised), creates effects in the people who are at the receiving end of it which would probably deeply distress, shock and surprise you to your core if you were in their skins.

I want to talk frankly about how very angry I have been at how you treated SLAD, slim, CW and myself in this thread.

Even when I post carefully thought through, specific constructive questions to you, that are based on a context of trying to clarify and check and understand and find common ground they are unanswered.

AD, if someone says "S08, you are outta line here" - I try to listen and take that on board STAT.
It happened in this thread. You were the person who said it. I listened and took it on board.

I hope that you will do the same for me -
I would like you to question me and slad and slim and CW about what your communication has felt like in this thread. I would like you just to listen and ask questions until they say "YES, AD, that's IT, that's what it was like" In other words, Im requesting empathy.

Then when that is done, we will have a 'clean space' to actually in an NVC way, communicate about what YOUR unmet needs are around this, in a communication structure that can breath be fun and grow.

[Mason I Bilderberg]

barracuda, Wombacticus Rex, why all the drama with/about MIB?

He's trolling, that's why, playing a game. When he brings something substantive to the table, let me know.

I've been pretty clear what side of this issue I'm on: David Icke's mythology is bullshit. But so is Mason I Bilderburg's schtick.

You said you believed "human-alien hybrids exist in a tangible, walking and talking form." I asked you about evidence. I think your evidence was anecdotal in nature. I have it in my notes. You may go.